Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;436673]For those against the boo birds, what would be your expected reaction towards a President who's approval ratings are in the toilet? Should he be cheered or should people just sit in silence?[/QUOTE]

again, simply show respect for the office. Simple applause would be fine. I don't think people understand that showing restraint is admirable.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;436676]I guess that's where we'll have to agree to disagree. [B]Again, I liken it to the weak logic that if you're against the war you're also against the troops. To me there's a pretty clear difference between the two[/B].[/QUOTE]

i completely agree with you there.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;436677]again, simply show respect for the office. Simple applause would be fine. I don't think people understand that showing restraint is admirable.[/quote]

That's easy to say in theory but the war is a hot button issue and anytime human lives are involved it's bound to be an issue that people react passionately about. People have had enough of the war and enough of W. To me it would have been pretty shocking if he wasn't booed at this point.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=Mattyk72;436673]For those against the boo birds, what would be your expected reaction towards a President who's approval ratings are in the toilet? Should he be cheered or should people just sit in silence?[/quote]I think people should be 'expected' to use their brains sometimes.

I'm not surprised by what happened, I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying that the expected reaction was not appropriate for the venue.

The guy is out there trying to promote Major League Baseball, and Baseball fans are booing the crap out of him. It doesn't take Einstein to figure out that people don't understand WHY the President was there, but the problem is that a bunch of simpletons don't want to make the distinction.

Should I be against/show disrespect for President Clinton's efforts to help raise money for rebuilding after Hurricane Katrina because I feel that he made a few boneheaded moves while he was the president? Why would this event with GW Bush be any different?

Any reaction ranging from polite recognition to total apathy in the situation would have been acceptable in my opinion. To boo violently shows a total misunderstanding of the situation, and may be a sign that people can no longer just let politics be politics.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

Man, this thread has really taken off. Good stuff.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;436673]For those against the boo birds, what would be your expected reaction towards a President who's approval ratings are in the toilet? Should he be cheered or should people just sit in silence?[/QUOTE]

I hate to compare Dubya to Gibbs, but how did you feel about the fans booing the Redskins/Gibbs in 2004 and 2006 when the team was tanking?

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

It's not like they pulled a classless act like the Phily fans and threw batteries or anything...they booed...and last I checked, that is thier right to do so. They PAID to go to this game.
Hey, we all know I am a Bush follower and would argue to the death with a democrat about his tenure, but what are we complaining about here? People booing? Seriously? They have every right to boo, and guess what, it's really no big deal.
As the President of the most powerful country in the world, you need to have extremely thick skin...I'm sure he expected it.

Now if they chanted F.U. or something...then I could see the uproar.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

So because he's there promoting baseball he should be given a pass? If he was booed at a charity event I could understand, but he's at a game where cheering and booing is common place.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;436685]I hate to compare Dubya to Gibbs, but how did you feel about the fans booing the Redskins/Gibbs in 2004 and 2006 when the team was tanking?[/quote]

I didn't like to see it only because I'm a huge fan of his but it certainly wasn't unexpected or not deserved. Even Gibbs would say that he wasn't doing a good job and probably deserved it.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;436682] It doesn't take Einstein to figure out that people don't understand WHY the President was there, but the problem is that a bunch of simpletons don't want to make the distinction.

Should I be against/show disrespect for President Clinton's efforts to help raise money for rebuilding after Hurricane Katrina because I feel that he made a few boneheaded moves while he was the president? Why would this event with GW Bush be any different?[/QUOTE]

I don't live in the area, nor did I watch sportscenter on this, but I am unsure as to WHY he was there other than to throw out the first pitch. Please enlighten me if I am incorrect.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=Mattyk72;436671]Of course not, why would I? It wasn't their decision to go to war.[/quote]

Hmmm, how to phrase.......
I would not boo the troops, regardless of the action involved in.
I would not disrespect the Vietnam memorial.
I would not desecrate a memorial to Martin Luther King.
I would not boo the President.
Etc.
Because of the greater things they represent. How do you seperate the man from the institution? The troops from the action?
Etc.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=Mattyk72;436687]So because he's there promoting baseball he should be given a pass? If he was booed at a charity event I could understand, but he's at a game where cheering and booing is common place.[/quote]Correct. People [I]should[/I] give him a pass. That would be the unbiased, correct, intelligent move, even for those who hate his politics.

When the president comes out for his State of the Union address, the Democrats, for the most part, show a great deal of respect for him. That's in a venue where politics are relevant.

A baseball stadium is a place where politics are irrelevant. Therefore, if you are booing the guy throwing out the first pitch, you are basically telling him that you hate him [B]as a person regardless of politics.[/B] If this is true, then I believe that they should boo, but I'm also left wondering what makes GW Bush a horrible man.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

I'm not going to bother getting into a discussion that involves what the difference is between being against the war and against the troops. To me there is a very clear difference and if you can't see it sorry I can't help you and it's a pointless debate to me.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=Mattyk72;436687]So because he's there promoting baseball he should be given a pass? If he was booed at a charity event I could understand, but he's at a game where cheering and booing is common place.[/quote]


So if we saw him at the zoo, we could throw shit at him.

JK, JK, JK.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=GTripp0012;436692]Correct. People [I]should[/I] give him a pass. That would be the unbiased, correct, intelligent move, even for those who hate his politics.

When the president comes out for his State of the Union address, the Democrats, for the most part, show a great deal of respect for him. That's in a venue where politics are relevant.

A baseball stadium is a place where politics are irrelevant. Therefore, if you are booing the guy throwing out the first pitch, you are basically telling him that you hate him [B]as a person regardless of politics.[/B] If this is true, then I believe that they should boo, but I'm also left wondering what makes GW Bush a horrible man.[/quote]

I couldn't disagree more.

This is where I will respectfully bow out of the discussion. And this is why I typically avoid threads of a political nature.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=angryssg;436694]So if we saw him at the zoo, we could throw shit at him.

JK, JK, JK.[/quote]

If you're a monkey, sure why not? :)

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=Hog1;436691]Hmmm, how to phrase.......
I would not boo the troops, regardless of the action involved in.
I would not disrespect the Vietnam memorial.
I would not desecrate a memorial to Martin Luther King.
I would not boo the President.
Etc.
Because of the greater things they represent. How do you seperate the man from the institution? The troops from the action?
Etc.[/quote]

Because even some of the troops do not want to be there. Many of them do not believe in the cause, just like the population back home. But they are bound by oath and contract to do as the President says, so they do.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=Mattyk72;436693]I'm not going to bother getting into a discussion that involves what the difference is between being against the war and against the troops. To me there is a very clear difference and if you can't see it sorry I can't help you and it's a pointless debate to me.[/quote]

How do YOU seperate the troops from the action?
"your doing a great job. Really proud of you. Thanx for all you do. BTW, everything you have done in Iraq is bogus, un-called for, illegal, murdeous????"
As you pointed out, it is an all volunteer army

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=Mattyk72;436696]I couldn't disagree more.

This is where I will respectfully bow out of the discussion. And this is why I typically avoid threads of a political nature.[/quote]Fair enough, we can agree to disagree on this one.

The final point remains that--these people were booing Bush NOT because he made a few bad decisions, but BECAUSE he is George W. Bush. If they saw him on the street 30 years from now, they would still hate him, and would probably not even be able to remember why.

That is why I call them simpletons. They [B]lack the mental capacity[/B] to distinguish between people and the decisions they make.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;436682]Any reaction ranging from polite recognition to total apathy in the situation would have been acceptable in my opinion. [B]To boo violently [/B]shows a total misunderstanding of the situation, and may be a sign that people can no longer just let politics be politics.[/QUOTE]Where did you get this from? Did you actually see this happen on TV?
I was there and I can tell you that there were just as many people cheering for him as there were booing. There weren't too many people foaming at the mouth or burning effigies of Bush.

And politics are NEVER irrelevant in DC.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=GTripp0012;436700]Fair enough, we can agree to disagree on this one.

The final point remains that--these people were booing Bush NOT because he made a few bad decisions, but BECAUSE he is George W. Bush. If they saw him on the street 30 years from now, they would still hate him, and would probably not even be able to remember why.

That is why I call them simpletons. They [B]lack the mental capacity[/B] to distinguish between people and the decisions they make.[/quote]

Don't your decisions and actions make you what you are ultimately? I'm not seeing where there is a seperation.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

Who seriously thinks people were booing the office? Everyone realizes that W was being booed for what he has (and has not) done, not the position he holds.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

For the record, it was about 80/20. The majority of the folks were cheering for Dubya.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;436702]Don't your decisions and actions make you what you are ultimately? I'm not seeing where there is a seperation.[/QUOTE]
Seriously.
Is he saying that we shouldn't judge Hitler based on the decisions he made, but by how he was as a person?

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=Mattyk72;436702]Don't your decisions and actions make you what you are ultimately? I'm not seeing where there is a seperation.[/quote]I have to say no, because if that is to be correct, then all people who make bad decisions or stupid decisions or are just generally wrong all the time (like offiss) would be BAD people, and if we disagreed with them, we would HATE them.

I don't believe this to be the case. I bet 90% of the people who booed GW claim to [U]hate the man[/U], but again, these aren't the brightest bulbs we are speaking about.

Yes, Matty, your actions make you what you are. If you make bad decisions as the president of the US, it makes you an inept president. It does not make you a bad person and the people who cant distinguish the two are the simpletons in question.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;436706]Seriously.
Is he saying that we shouldn't judge Hitler based on the decisions he made, but by how he was as a person?[/quote]Hitler killed millions of people, just because he thought they weren't part of his ideal society.

That's a pretty bad person, regardless of any strategic war decisions he made.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=GTripp0012;436711]I have to say no, because if that is to be correct, then all people who make bad decisions or stupid decisions or are just generally wrong all the time (like offiss) would be BAD people, and if we disagreed with them, we would HATE them.

I don't believe this to be the case. I bet 90% of the people who booed GW claim to [U]hate the man[/U], but again, these aren't the brightest bulbs we are speaking about.[/quote]

I think it all depends on what type of decisions we're talking about. You're brushing this argument with a pretty wide stroke.

As AMD said above: Hitler, [I]probably[/I] a bad guy all around.

I don't see where offiss should be in any way compared to the leader of the free world. That's pretty hilarious actually.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=Mattyk72;436716]I think it all depends on what type of decisions we're talking about.

As AMD said above: Hitler, [I]probably[/I] a bad guy all around.

I don't see where offiss should be in any way compared to the leader of the free world. That's pretty hilarious actually.[/quote]Because, from what we know about offiss, we can't assume he's a bad person deserving of public ridicule wherever he goes.

Same for the president.

Agreed?

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

But Bush is the decider-er, so we should dislike him based on his decisions.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

But Bush is still in a position to be making these stupid decisions. Once he is no longer president, what is accomplished by booing him? Nothing, because then it is petty, since, presumably, he can do nothing about it. While in office, though, it is everyone's responsibility to remind Bush that they disapprove of his course of action.

Similar for offiss - when he is on the site and an active participant, it's fair game (just as I am). If he swears off the site, and you go to his house and boo him? Probably inappropriate.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=GTripp0012;436711]I have to say no, because if that is to be correct, then all people who make bad decisions or stupid decisions or are just generally wrong all the time (like offiss) would be BAD people, and if we disagreed with them, we would HATE them.

I don't believe this to be the case. I bet 90% of the people who booed GW claim to [U]hate the man[/U], but again, these aren't the brightest bulbs we are speaking about.

[B]Yes, Matty, your actions make you what you are. If you make bad decisions as the president of the US, it makes you an inept president. It does not make you a bad person and the people who cant distinguish the two are the simpletons in question[/B].[/quote]

But wouldn't you agree that any bad decisions made by an inept President could be pretty damaging to society in general? Obviously there's a ton of responsibility that comes with that position, and if you're making bad decisions that impacts millions of people I fail to see where a seperation between the person and his decision making needs to be made. By making the decsions that he has, he's shown us the kind of person he is.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;436722]But Bush is the decider-er, so we should dislike him based on his decisions.[/quote]Yes, as long as we can realize that when he's throwing out the first pitch at a new stadiums is probably not the [I]most ideal[/I] time to give him a piece of our minds.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=GTripp0012;436719]Because, from what we know about offiss, we can't assume he's a bad person deserving of public ridicule wherever he goes.

Same for the president.

Agreed?[/quote]

Apples and oranges. I don't see anything similar between the two at all.

I might not like offiss's opinions, but I don't have any dislike towards him as a person. Bush on the other hand is making decisions that impact our lives, there's a huge difference there.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;436586]just like anyone else. you don't do a good job, hence the booing. but i did find it a bit disrespectful[/QUOTE]

I agree. I don't think I would ever boo a president no matter what I thought of him or his actions.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=GTripp0012;436725]Yes, as long as we can realize that when he's throwing out the first pitch at a new stadiums is probably not the [I]most ideal[/I] time to give him a piece of our minds.[/quote]

When would be then? Where else does the President appear in the public eye where it would be appropriate to cheer/boo him?

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=Mattyk72;436724]But wouldn't you agree that any bad decisions made by an inept President could be pretty damaging to society in general? Obviously there's a ton of responsibility that comes with that position, and if you're making bad decisions that impacts millions of people I fail to see where a seperation between the person and his decision making needs to be made. [B]By making the decsions that he has, he's shown us the kind of person he is.[/B][/quote]That bolded conclusion, I couldn't disagree with more.

The rest...yeah, I mean, absoultely. You don't have to vote for him, and I'm sure you didn't. You also are totally allowed, as are we all, to voice your opinion to him in the proper setting, or just talk about his poor decision making behind his back. But the problem comes when you decide that he deserves no respect whatsoever as a man...then you've probably crossed a line you shouldn't have.

I have to bow out here. Good points on both sides.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;436727]I agree. I don't think I would ever boo a president no matter what I thought of him or his actions.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. That goes for bad conservative presidents and bad liberal ones too. I certainly see the "other side" of things though.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

Now I'm rethinking - after Bush leaves office, it could be appropriate to boo him if he is, in context, promoting those same ideals that led to such disastrous decision making while he was president. So, if he's doing a Katrina charity event, it would be inappropriate to boo him. If he's giving a keynote speech supporting some political initiative, it could be appropriate to boo.

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[quote=GTripp0012;436729]That bolded conclusion, I couldn't disagree with more.

The rest...yeah, I mean, absoultely. You don't have to vote for him, and I'm sure you didn't. You also are totally allowed, as are we all, to voice your opinion to him in the proper setting, or just talk about his poor decision making behind his back. But the problem comes when you decide that he deserves no respect whatsoever as a man...then you've probably crossed a line you shouldn't have.

I have to bow out here. Good points on both sides.[/quote]

Just to be clear I'm not saying he deserves no respect. He doesn't have an easy job that's for sure. So for that, I respect him and I respect what his position represents.

But to me his decisions and actions are a clear representation of the kind of man he is. That applies to everyone. The decisions you make are a reflection of who you are as a person. Otherwise aren't you living a lie and not being true to yourself??

Re: GW Bush booed at Nationals' opener
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;436711]I have to say no, because if that is to be correct, then all people who make bad decisions or stupid decisions or are just generally wrong all the time (like offiss) would be BAD people, and if we disagreed with them, we would HATE them.

I don't believe this to be the case. I bet 90% of the people who booed GW claim to [U]hate the man[/U], but again, these aren't the brightest bulbs we are speaking about.

Yes, Matty, your actions make you what you are. If you make bad decisions as the president of the US, it makes you an inept president. It does not make you a bad person and the people who cant distinguish the two are the simpletons in question.[/QUOTE]

This is how I see it and I think it is the biggest problem in country today in terms of politics and governance. Our political machine and it machinations, media, proganda, marketing, have turned our system into one of hate and emotionality. Are there BAD PEOPLE who get elected? Yeah, but truly bad people don't get elected all that often.

I would say even though a large majority of our elected officials have relatively large egos and are seeking some type of power I also believe that they do honestly believe they can do what is best for whatever their constiuency is. I believe this firmly of GW. I don't agree with a lot of what he has done and I strongly disagree with a few of the things he has done but I don't hate the guy. I don't think he is pure evil like so many idealogues would like us to believe. I strongly believe the guy has thought he was doing what was best for the country. It makes him a bad President, not a bad person. If you hate someone for being not very good at something then I pity you.

I don't hate Spurrier for being such a crap HC. And he was at least as bad at being HC as Bush is at being President.