Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;438015]The deal I'd do is the 21 for CJ and their 2nd. And I am not even totally convinced on that.[/QUOTE]

That is the most I would give up for CJ as well. I do not think he is worth giving up two draft picks in the first three rounds. If the Skins use their first round pick to acquire CJ they should get an additional second round draft pick for him, as well from the Bengals.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;437995]Based on everything I've heard right now I'm putting a trade for CJ on draft day at about 20%, but the possibility could significantly go up maybe 10% after June 1. The Bengals have been rumored to want help at RB (Betts?) with them not sure about Irons' health and reportedly likely cutting Rudi Johnson after June 1 (not really sure why) and LB. With Henry gone as well now, WR may become an additional need. But they're not just going to give CJ away.

My guess is the Bengals are going to be more likely to ask for a 1st rounder next year with the thinking that the Redskins will struggle a bit under new coach Jim Zorn and will pick much higher in the first round in 2009.[/QUOTE]

Trading future picks scares me. I can live with trading this years #1 but trading a future pick that has no established value yet is very risky. I really hope they don't do that. I also do not think CJ is worth a #1 and a #3...a #1 is plenty to give for a 30+ WR.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[QUOTE=wolfeskins;438134]no way is cj worth our 1 & betts, nor is he worth our 1 & 3. i'd offer betts and our 5, maybe betts and our 3......maybe.[/QUOTE]

Agreed...there is no reason to include Betts unless it is instead of our #1 pick. I may even go Betts and a #2 for CJ but that would be pushing it. Then we still have 3 picks in the top 3 rounds.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

ESPN's Todd McShay reports the Bengals have informed Oklahoma WR Malcolm Kelly that they're interested in him.
McShay speculates that the Bengals are smokescreening and hope to trade down, while John Clayton says the interest is "valid." Kelly will work out for the first time this offseason Wednesday. Following the release of Chris Henry, the Bengals may very well use a pick in the top three rounds on a receiver.

Looks like the Bengals are already looking to replace ocho cinco. I am not opposed to trading ladell Betts and ocho cinco straight up.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

1. If any of you knew me you would know I am not dissing Sandtrap. I like what he has to say and I was just pointing out how funny it is that he always seems to be looking to make our team better. Just poking fun. Not sure why I keep seeing Sandtrap is a contributor to the site when no one said he's not. Unless I missed something.

2. Trading Betts for Ocho straight up is not even fair. Your going to trade an old 2nd string RB for an old 1st string WR. Ok that makes sense.

3. I'm all for making the Bengals believe they have a problem and should get rid of him anyway they can for what ever low price they can get, however I'm betting when the Bengals tell Ocho "Go ahead and see who wants you" several teams are going to step up to the plate wanting a tall, talented, proven, vet to compliment their QB causing a free for all bidding war. Eagles, Bills, Minni, Tampa, are just a few teams who need just that type of person.

4. Trading only our #1 for Ocho would not be a bad deal except one would have to look at trade value. A lot of you are not putting decent trade value on Ocho in my opinion. If we had a higher 1st round pick then I would probably say your correct. but a bottom of the 1st round pick maybe not. plus who knows how the first round pick will turn out for them if we give them it. Ocho is proven.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[quote=mauiRedskinbarn;438158]ESPN's Todd McShay reports the Bengals have informed Oklahoma WR Malcolm Kelly that they're interested in him.
McShay speculates that the Bengals are smokescreening and hope to trade down, while John Clayton says the interest is "valid." [b]Kelly will work out for the first time this offseason Wednesday.[/b] Following the release of Chris Henry, the Bengals may very well use a pick in the top three rounds on a receiver.

Looks like the Bengals are already looking to replace ocho cinco. I am not opposed to trading ladell Betts and ocho cinco straight up.[/quote]

The part in bold befuddles me.
Draft prospects are allowed to ONLY interview and PHYSICAL for a team during pre-draft visits. Workouts are not allowed. That is what the combine and the pro-days are for.

The league just protecting the prospects in a chance they get injured prior to the draft.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

after what i heard this morning on NFL live i heard they're going after Malcolm Kelly rather then Manningham. Kelly is a big reciever whom Carson Palmer is used to having. Also Kelly ran a 4.3 40 which isn't bad for a 220 pounder. They lost Washington a year ago, fired Henry this year and more then likely will lose Chad in the next year so they need a solid number 3 who can become a number 2 or 1 even. Chad isn't likely to be dealed away for the simple fact that it hits Cincy for about 8 million against the cap from what i hear. they'll bench him before that happens.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[QUOTE=theJBexperience;438018]That's conceivable, if they're demanding a first rounder for him. The Skins definitely shouldn't have to throw in more to sweeten the pot. They should.[/QUOTE]

Good deal

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

Guys...this guy aint going anywhere...unless someone gives them a lopsided deal...Like a Solid 1st and a third+
He's not worth it...the attitude, cap hit, age...and the Bengals just dumped a solid WR.
They need Chad this year....they are probably just prepping for next year.
Many here say a drafted WR takes a full year to "get it"
Don't you think the Bengals know that?

Ask yourself this question....if you had Chad Johnson and just cut a WR...would you trade him this year?
And if so...what would it take....
2 first rounders....of course....other than that....its pretty risky.
And who would pay such a high price?
Answer....no one.

Lets focus on drafting well....you guys are just bored as hell!

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[quote=skinsnut;438187]
Ask yourself this question....if you had Chad Johnson and just cut a WR...would you trade him this year?
And if so...what would it take....
2 first rounders....of course....other than that....its pretty risky.
And who would pay such a high price?
Answer....no one.

Lets focus on drafting well....you guys are just bored as hell![/quote]

Grrrr????? didn't the Buc's pay like 2 first round picks for Jon Gruden, A COACH!!! I MEAN LIKE HELLO LIKE TOTALLY OMG LETS GO SHOPPING.

Obviously I'm joking around but as you know, the Buc's trading two first for Jon Gruden is fact. And attitude problems? The Redskins won a Super Bowl behind the man in your avatar.

Never Underestimate Dan Synder. I say that if there is a trade it will be the Redskins two first rounders and Ladel Betts for the Chad Johnson and the Bengals third round pick. Not saying I agree with it, just saying that I can realistically see that happening. But a straight up Betts for Chad Johnson trade????? Sorry man, I don't mean for this to sound like a personal attack but to the person who originally suggested this idea; are you kidding me?

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;438188]Grrrr????? didn't the Buc's pay like 2 first round picks for Jon Gruden, A COACH!!! I MEAN LIKE HELLO LIKE TOTALLY OMG LETS GO SHOPPING.

Obviously I'm joking around but as you know, the Buc's trading two first for Jon Gruden is fact. And attitude problems? The Redskins won a Super Bowl behind the man in your avatar.

Never Underestimate Dan Synder. I say that if there is a trade it will be the Redskins two first rounders and Ladel Betts for the Chad Johnson and the Bengals third round pick. Not saying I agree with it, just saying that I can realistically see that happening. But a straight up Betts for Chad Johnson trade????? Sorry man, I don't mean for this to sound like a personal attack but to the person who originally suggested this idea; are you kidding me?[/quote]

Why don't we just throw in the keys to FedEx Field and Redskins One while we're at it?

If that doesn't work we'll tempt the devil with Joe Gibbs soul.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

Chad Johnson had carson palmer throwing to him and still wasn't content. Imagine what it would be like here with JC throwing to him.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

I think people demonize CJ very quickly, and forget that he plays for a terrible organization. I'm sure a lot of people last year had a similar opinion of Randy Moss, quickly forgetting that he was playing for the dysfunctional Raiders. Some players sometimes need a change of scenery, and CJ is a proven players unlike the likes of Brandon Lloyd.

I think trading Ladell Betts may not be a bad idea, heck he could probably compete for a starting position with the Bengals, whereas he wouldn't be able to do that here. Or maybe we could trade Ladell and our 1st rounder for CJ and their second rounder? Just speculating here, so don't bite my head of off.

Honestly, the Bengals need to blow up that team and start from scratch. They should build around TJ Housh and Carson Palmer. If CJ doesn't want to be there, let him go and stop pretending like refusing to trade for CJ is going to fix the team.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

I doubt that CJ is going anywhere but if we could get him lined up opposite Moss, with Cooley and Portis in the mix, this would CERTAINLY make JC's life easier and make the skins a far more dangerous offense. This years 1st and 3rd, or Betts and this years 3rd for CJ? No brainer in my opinion. As has been mentioned a few times, Randy Moss and T.O. both went to their new teams with character issues and both sigificantly improved their new teams. CJ could do the same for the Skins.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;438188]Grrrr????? didn't the Buc's pay like 2 first round picks for Jon Gruden, A COACH!!! I MEAN LIKE HELLO LIKE TOTALLY OMG LETS GO SHOPPING.

Obviously I'm joking around but as you know, the Buc's trading two first for Jon Gruden is fact. And attitude problems? The Redskins won a Super Bowl behind the man in your avatar.

Never Underestimate Dan Synder. I say that if there is a trade it will be the Redskins two first rounders and Ladel Betts for the Chad Johnson and the Bengals third round pick. Not saying I agree with it, just saying that I can realistically see that happening. But a straight up Betts for Chad Johnson trade????? Sorry man, I don't mean for this to sound like a personal attack but to the person who originally suggested this idea; are you kidding me?[/quote]Not only 2 firsts, but two seconds.

You know what's funny. Easily the two worst trades in the past decade have been Jon Gruden to the Bucs for four day 1 picks, one of which became shutdown CB Nnamdi Asomugha, and Eli Manning to the Giants for Phillip Rivers, a first round pick in 2005 (Shawne Merriman), and a third round pick in '04 (Nate Kaeding).

The funny part is...that both teams that got totally shafted in those deals overcame them to win the Super Bowl. The teams that got the great deals have both been deep into the playoffs since the respective trades, but haven't won it all.

I guess the moral of the story is that we should make the Bengals a ridiculous trade offer for Chad Johnson in which we totally rip ourselves off...so that we can follow suit and win the Super Bowl ;)

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[quote=marius;438231]I doubt that CJ is going anywhere but if we could get him lined up opposite Moss, with Cooley and Portis in the mix, this would CERTAINLY make JC's life easier and make the skins a far more dangerous offense. This years 1st and 3rd, or Betts and this years 3rd for CJ? No brainer in my opinion. As has been mentioned a few times, Randy Moss and T.O. both went to their new teams with character issues and both sigificantly improved their new teams. CJ could do the same for the Skins.[/quote]

Thank You. Totally agree. but.....some on here would have you believe that the Skins being a "dangerous offense" is slightly over rated and Character is more important. Others would have you believe that CJ is "evil" and that we should draft a no name unproven rookie to fill this roll and waite several more yrs in our "rebuilding" process to swing the bat for the Super Bowl. The good news is the longer we keep rebuilding the older our current players get and their hopes of getting to the SB are deminishing. Oh wait, thats exactly what others are saying also, If we keep picking up 30 something or others then we are not drafting young no names to fill the 30 something or others spots.

Man this one is a hard one......try to win now or try to win later........

Do I honestly think the Bengals will trade now that they have a severe WR need. No. but could there be a draft day trade and a deal get done. Yes. Chad agrees to pay back some money lighting the load on the organization and their 8 mil cap hit and a decent trade offer and I can see it getting done. Snyder has been reported to be "enamored" with CJ so I guess we will all have to wait and see if the Bengals decide to pull the trigger. I just can't see the Bengals letting a proven go when they need one. Unless they think being a more balanced team ie: getting a RB to shore up their running game will help them out, I don't see this trade happening.

Before we start casting stones lets look in our closet first in regards to character players; Riggins was a disgruntaled alcoholic who refused to play and Gibbs had to go lure him back. I love Arrington but he used the media for his benifit. Taylor (god bless him) was no angle. He had his share of problems from the get go and I don't recall the character police screaming to get rid of him or trade him away. Coles aired his dirty laundry twice I believe, once leaving the Jets and once returning to the Jets. LOL. Antonio Pierce spoke through the media. I'm sure there are more I'm forgetting and lets not forget all those players who failed to show up for VOLUNTARY work outs. Man they should all be let go. Their not team players they have no character.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

I think that in general theres two type of bad character guys. The premadonna's and the criminal's. The premadonna's usually cause problems and have dominant personallities that seem to warrent being orbited by moons, but at the same time they rarely, if ever, get into legal problems.

The criminals on the other hand, well thats just best summed up by one word.....Pacman.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

Does the signing of Jerome Mathis mean Character is no longer an issue for the coach's?

I know Snyder slipped this one by us but......hello....Character Police......time to turn in your tickets....CJ never has tried to hurt a pregnant women.....time for you guys/gals to start your boycott. Start picketing. Have fun. maybe pick a better day when it's not raining.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

What the F are you talking about?

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

Why go for CJ, if there is so much concern about character, and with the salary cap in effect, I believe that this will comeback to shoot us in the foot. Take a look at the younger, bigger recievers that we have on the roster, i.e. Mc Mullen, Mix, Toler. Those guys could be just as productive, and be better in terms of financial obligation. The only way that I see this working out in our favor is if the Bengals agree to eat some of the money that CJ is going to demand. Plus, is he really that good, or is he just a product of the system. Will he flourish in a WC offense? I don't believe so.

If we do draft a WR then it will make more sense, cause we won't need players to every year re work their contracts. I say play it safe and work on the team from the inside and mold the younger guys to play the style that you want on a team and stop bringing the ego-driven, overrated guys (look no further than the biggest 'Skins bust of all time...Neon Deion). If CJ was so good than how come the Bengals haven't made it past the 1st round of the playoffs?

We have more glaring holes that we need.

So who is with me?

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[quote=pstylee;438444]Why go for CJ, if there is so much concern about character, and with the salary cap in effect, I believe that this will comeback to shoot us in the foot. Take a look at the younger, bigger recievers that we have on the roster, i.e. Mc Mullen, Mix, Toler. Those guys could be just as productive, and be better in terms of financial obligation. The only way that I see this working out in our favor is if the Bengals agree to eat some of the money that CJ is going to demand. Plus, is he really that good, or is he just a product of the system. Will he flourish in a WC offense? I don't believe so.

If we do draft a WR then it will make more sense, cause we won't need players to every year re work their contracts. I say play it safe and work on the team from the inside and mold the younger guys to play the style that you want on a team and stop bringing the ego-driven, overrated guys (look no further than the biggest 'Skins bust of all time...Neon Deion). If CJ was so good than how come the Bengals haven't made it past the 1st round of the playoffs?

We have more glaring holes that we need.

So who is with me?[/quote]

I second that assertion.


As a team we have major holes at the very core of our team. If we want to be competitive year in and year out we need to build our OL & DL so they are stout. Then we can worry about what WRs to acquire in free agency.

CJ isn't going to matter much when we first of all, can't get our offense on to the field quickly, and second, can't give our QB ample time to work the offensive scheme.


...(Whispers): "Build the core and it will come"

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

I'm all for only taking guys through the draft, very similar to what NE has done in the past. Save us money and have a very young team. I'm just agreeing with some other people in regards to no one can't say CJ would not make us better due to his talent. No one knows how CJ would act here in a different environment with different circumstances and a better QB.

I'm not sure how the CAP would work out. I would think if CJ buys back his contract and is allowed to be free (like Arrington did) then the CAP hit would not be an issue. I for some reason doubt CJ has the money to buy his contract back though.

and as to WTF am I talking about. I'm not sure what your refrensing. Are you speaking in regards to my issues of some players character that have been on this team in the past and nothing has been said about them or are you speaking in regards to the recent player we signed Jerome Mathis who hails from the Texans and has been talked about his assaulting a pregnant women? Surely CJ is better then he is character wise.....right?

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

some of you guys value betts way too much and CJ too little. he's not a good player, he's a great player, and probably has 5 years and 5-6k yards left.

I wouldn't go crazy, but i'd listen and betts isn't someone i'd think twice about trading for CJ.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[quote=That Guy;438452]some of you guys value betts way too much and CJ too little. he's not a good player, he's a great player, and probably has 5 years and 5-6k yards left.

I wouldn't go crazy, but i'd listen and betts isn't someone i'd think twice about trading for CJ.[/quote]

I'm glad someone else said this. I like Betts as a solid number 2 RB but we have others who could perform the same solid number 2 position. Does Rock ring a bell. Maybe Marcus Mason....oh he's also young and has been molded into a RB we want. So giving up Betts is not the end of the world. Especially considering Betts fumbling abilities. Plus a lot of people are saying we need a big FB in the WC offense which will leave Betts with fewer carries.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

The Bengals signed Doug Gabriel today

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;438015]The deal I'd do is the 21 for CJ and their 2nd. And I am not even totally convinced on that.[/QUOTE]

What? :confused:

That's the most ridiculous proposal I've EVER heard I believe.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

I just want to know how everyone is so sure we'd do better without CJ, that our 1st round pick would be better than him, and how not using free agency is actually going to make our team better. We may develop, but then next year if we don't hit high goals, who are you going to blame it on? Zorn, I guess..

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[QUOTE=SBXVII;438450]I'm all for only taking guys through the draft, very similar to what NE has done in the past.

New England didn't seem to suffer too much by taking Randy Moss, another aging player with 'character issues' but a proven track record. The chances of finding a WR in the draft anywhere near as good as CJ is very low. IF we can get him then the bottom line is that he would almost certainly improve the team straight away, something that is highly unlikely from a freshly drafted WR.

How could you not want this guy as a target for Jason Campbell? You can be sure that Campbell would love to see him running routes downfield.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[quote=That Guy;438452]some of you guys [B]value betts way too much[/B] and CJ too little. he's not a good player, he's a great player, and probably has 5 years and 5-6k yards left.

I wouldn't go crazy, but i'd listen and betts isn't someone i'd think twice about trading for CJ.[/quote]
now, the voice of reason. its kind of like how much people around here value James Thrash. its like if you talk bad about him, you get jumped on

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[quote=marius;438529][quote=SBXVII;438450]I'm all for only taking guys through the draft, very similar to what NE has done in the past.

New England didn't seem to suffer too much by taking Randy Moss, another aging player with 'character issues' but a proven track record. The chances of finding a WR in the draft anywhere near as good as CJ is very low. IF we can get him then the bottom line is that he would almost certainly improve the team straight away, something that is highly unlikely from a freshly drafted WR.

How could you not want this guy as a target for Jason Campbell? You can be sure that Campbell would love to see him running routes downfield.[/quote]

It's not so much that we think that CJ will perform poorly but it is that we know the cost in acquiring CJ wouldn't just mean losing out on draft picks this year. It would mean another year in which we hold off solidifying our team with young homegrown talent and not focusing on what matters most...building a competitive franchise year in and year out.

The only way we're going to do that is if we use our selections on primier young talent in the early rounds of the draft and coach them into our system. New England has been doing that for a while and they've won some Super Bowls doing so without the aid of Randy Moss.

Being paper champions year in and year out is easy...just make it rain on March 1st and your set. But that doesn't translate to wins on the field. If you want to actually win a championship it takes disicipline to stay the course and not reach for the flashy quick fix. Especially when in all that flash you can get blinded and lose the focus and direction of your system.



-This message sponsered by the "No CJ in '08" foundation-

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[QUOTE=Skinny Tee;438539]

It's not so much that we think that CJ will perform poorly but it is that we know the cost in acquiring CJ wouldn't just mean losing out on draft picks this year. It would mean another year in which we hold off solidifying our team with young homegrown talent and not focusing on what matters most...building a competitive franchise year in and year out.

The only way we're going to do that is if we use our selections on primier young talent in the early rounds of the draft and coach them into our system. New England has been doing that for a while and they've won some Super Bowls doing so without the aid of Randy Moss.


-This message sponsered by the "No CJ in '08" foundation-[/QUOTE]

I understand your logic but I don't feel that we would be 'holding off solidifying our team' by sacrificing 2 draft picks or Betts plus a pick and bringing in CJ. To me, bringing in a player of his ability solidifies our team immediately. I agree that bringing mediocre players at the cost of draft picks is a mistake but if you can bring in someone who is proven to perform at the very highest level and still has another 4-5 years left then that surely is solidifying the team? Personally, I doubt that CJ is going anywhere but if he did then I would love to see hiim end up in Washington as he would make the Redskins a better team.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;438469]The Bengals signed Doug Gabriel today[/QUOTE]

It sounds like the Bengals needed to sign another wideout of two. With Chris Henry gone and Chad and TJ aging and unhappy, they're WR corps may be going from a strength to a liability.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;438549]It sounds like the Bengals needed to sign another wideout of two. With Chris Henry gone and Chad and TJ aging and unhappy, they're WR corps may be going from a strength to a liability.[/QUOTE]

Well apparently they want to use the TE a lot more in the passing game, one reason why they signed Ben Utecht

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[quote=marius;438546]I understand your logic but I don't feel that we would be 'holding off solidifying our team' by sacrificing 2 draft picks or Betts plus a pick and bringing in CJ. To me, bringing in a player of his ability solidifies our team immediately. I agree that bringing mediocre players at the cost of draft picks is a mistake but if you can bring in someone who is proven to perform at the very highest level and still has another 4-5 years left then that surely is solidifying the team? Personally, I doubt that CJ is going anywhere but if he did then I would love to see hiim end up in Washington as he would make the Redskins a better team.[/quote]

In the NFL there is always going to be somebody who is worth it.

With that sentiment we'd never get around to using the draft to make us better. The only thing that would be better is how you think we are going to do this year, not how we're actually going to do. Having an offseason of high hopes is not worth the letdown when we come to the September realization that our team is fragile.

We need to neutralize our free agent crazes. I figure we've had about 3 offseasons which we've gone for nothing but sexy and flashy signings. We need 3 offseasons of straight unsexy draft picks to right the ship. I'm talking the kind of picks that will make the fans in front row draft day cringe and boo mercilessly as they're announced.

Offensive and Defensive linemen abounds!!!

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[quote=SmootSmack;438558]Well apparently they want to use the TE a lot more in the passing game, one reason why they signed Ben Utecht[/quote]

Should be a good move for them.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[QUOTE=Skinny Tee;438571]In the NFL there is always going to be somebody who is worth it.

With that sentiment we'd never get around to using the draft to make us better. The only thing that would be better is how you think we are going to do this year, not how we're actually going to do. Having an offseason of high hopes is not worth the letdown when we come to the September realization that our team is fragile.

We need to neutralize our free agent crazes. I figure we've had about 3 offseasons which we've gone for nothing but sexy and flashy signings. We need 3 offseasons of straight unsexy draft picks to right the ship. I'm talking the kind of picks that will make the fans in front row draft day cringe and boo mercilessly as they're announced.

Offensive and Defensive linemen abounds!!![/QUOTE]

I agree to a large extent (especially about drafting linemen) but I feel that if there is a player that is available who will very likely make us significantly better then we should take him. I just can't agree that having CJ would make the team 'more fragile' than an unproven rookie. I also agree that the free agency frenzy that we have experienced in the recent past has been detrimental to the team. However, I feel that in this case, for this player, in this position, we should go for it. He is not a Brandon Lloyd. He is better than Randle El and Santana Moss. He will improve the team.

I would be pleased if CJ was the only free agency move we make. If we picked up a player of this calibre every 2 to 3 years in free agency and then built through the draft on top of that it would be a nice balance. I think that selective free agents combined with building throught the draft is the way to go. Just because CJ is a loud mouth does not mean he is a 'flashy signing'. This guy is one of the top 3 or 4 receivers in the league.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[quote=marius;438575]I agree to a large extent (especially about drafting linemen) but I feel that if there is a player that is available who will very likely make us significantly better then we should take him. I just can't agree that having CJ would make the team 'more fragile' than an unproven rookie. I also agree that the free agency frenzy that we have experienced in the recent past has been detrimental to the team. However, I feel that in this case, for this player, in this position, we should go for it. He is not a Brandon Lloyd. He is better than Randle El and Santana Moss. He will improve the team.

I would be pleased if CJ was the only free agency move we make. If we picked up a player of this calibre every 2 to 3 years in free agency and then built through the draft on top of that it would be a nice balance. I think that selective free agents combined with building throught the draft is the way to go. Just because CJ is a loud mouth does not mean he is a 'flashy signing'. This guy is one of the top 3 or 4 receivers in the league.[/quote]

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

[Legend: (World = CJ, Flashy Free Agents ; Soul = Draft, Team Identity, Continuity)]


Just palling around...I'm not trying to convince you I just like locking horns with the Pro-CJers because I so fervently disagree.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[QUOTE=marius;438575]I agree to a large extent (especially about drafting linemen) but I feel that if there is a player that is available who will very likely make us significantly better then we should take him. I just can't agree that having CJ would make the team 'more fragile' than an unproven rookie. I also agree that the free agency frenzy that we have experienced in the recent past has been detrimental to the team. However, I feel that in this case, for this player, in this position, we should go for it. He is not a Brandon Lloyd. He is better than Randle El and Santana Moss. He will improve the team.[/QUOTE]

I don't think anyone questions that Chad Johnson will dramatically improve the team's passing attack. I think, however, people question whether the upside of trading for Chad Johnson outweighs the downside. I see quite a bit of upside, but I see even more downside.

Chad Johnson is going to be 30 years old at the start of the season. We will likely replace Pete Kendall, Randy Thomas, Jon Jansen, Phillip Daniels, Cornelius Griffin, Marcus Washington, London Fletcher, and Shawn Springs within the next 2 years. That's nearly 50% of our starting lineup. We may have youngsters who can fill some of those shoes (e.g., Reed Doughty, Anthony Montgomery, and H.B. Blades), but we need to continue our youth movement and generally avoid acquiring high-priced and aging free agents. Trading a first round draft pick or several high round picks for a 30 year old when we clearly have a need to infuse our roster with more [U]quality[/U] youth just doesn't make much sense to me.

Moreover, I have serious reservations about Chad's ability to act like a responsible and respectful team player. Chad Johnson is undoubtedly a great talent and supposedly has a great work ethic. But, Chad Johnson routinely and [U]intentionally[/U] draws 15 yard penalties for post-touchdown celebrations. Chad Johnson also got into a physical altercation with a [U]coach[/U]. It's one thing to get into a training camp fight with a teammate, it's another to go after your boss.

I just don't see why so many want this guy.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

Lets see.....according to NFL.COM for 2007 ...CJ ranks 3rd in all WR's with 1,440 yrds. not bad for a washed up thirty y/o. I even took the pleasure to look up the Skins closest competitor and found Moss at number 34 with 808 yrds. Cooley was ranked number 37 with 786 yrds and finally rounding out the list for the Skins was Randle El at number 46 with 728 yrds. We deffinitly don't need a proven WR.

...and before the math gue rue's get involved all three of our players amounted for 2,322. and the Bengals amounted 2,583 with only 2 WR on the list. This is WR's only because as you know we don't have a need for WR's. supposedly. Also we generated 12 TD's with just those 3 players and the Bengals generated 20 TD's. CJ had the same number of TD's as Cooley at 8.

Re: Redskins draft day trade for veteran WR
 

[QUOTE=SBXVII;438603]Lets see.....according to NFL.COM for 2007 ...CJ ranks 3rd in all WR's with 1,440 yrds. not bad for a washed up thirty y/o. I even took the pleasure to look up the Skins closest competitor and found Moss at number 34 with 808 yrds. Cooley was ranked number 37 with 786 yrds and finally rounding out the list for the Skins was Randle El at number 46 with 728 yrds. We deffinitly don't need a proven WR.

...and before the math gue rue's get involved all three of our players amounted for 2,322. and the Bengals amounted 2,583 with only 2 WR on the list. This is WR's only because as you know we don't have a need for WR's. supposedly. Also we generated 12 TD's with just those 3 players and the Bengals generated 20 TD's. CJ had the same number of TD's as Cooley at 8.[/QUOTE]

I certainly never said Chad Johnson was washed up. Chad Johnson likely has several (3-4) highly productive years left in the tank, but it's [I]usually[/I] not smart to "buy" when the price is high and the value is in decline. Moreover, the question isn't whether CJ would add value to our team, the question is whether CJ adds more value to our team over the long haul than the draft picks and/or players we would likely have to trade to acquire him. In my opinion, the answer is no.