Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

[QUOTE=Ade Jimoh Fan Club;449059]
On July 1st, 2007, Thurman was arrested for cocaine possesion charges while busted for having intercourse will a llama, which is currently illegal in the state of Ohio, but not its neighbor state West Virginia.

(OK, I added that last one to see if you were actually reading this...) ADE
[/QUOTE]

I'm depressed that either 1) no one reads my posts or 2) everyone think sex with a llama is normal behavior.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

Honestly I didn't catch it but hey man,.... when you got to get one off you gotta get one off !

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

3 pages of picking up this loser. where is the voice of reason?

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

[quote=Mattyk72;449185]Good thing you don't run the team that's for sure.

The guy was suspended for the last 2 years. That says everything I need to know about his character. [B]The chances of him changing for the better are slim at best[/B].[/quote]

Good thing none of us runs that team for that matter, and that's likewise for sure.

If what you're saying is that the chances of drug addicts/alcoholics staying clean for extended periods of time after treatment is "slim at best" then I'd have to agree with you, as would most in the clinical professions that deal w/addicts. But there are addicts that turn their lives around, George Rogers & Bruce Smith to name a couple that had their bouts w/cocaine but cleaned up & had good long careers.

In my post, I stated that I don't know the extent of his problems & what kind of teamate he is. If the front office feels he's a genuinely good guy/teamate that has just had problems in the past but understands the consequences (losing 2 years of your career & big $ is enough to change most people) & wants to turn things around, then I don't see it as such a stretch to sign him.

I also think that the loss of his grandmother might motivate him for the better as well. I certainly didn't mean to come off to say that his behavior isn't a major red flag to say the least.

JLC's post makes sense, if they feel Blades can be the future at MLB they may feel they don't need him enough to take the chance. I still think he's worth looking into if nothing else.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

[quote=dmek25;449206]3 pages of picking up this loser. where is the voice of reason?[/quote]

I tried.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

If it was up to the people on the forums the Redskins would be made up of former starters from other teams, all with vet min + incentives contracts.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

The sad part is that the best indication that he shouldn't be signed is not his drug use, but the fact that the Bengals cut him. If he had anything at all he'd still be a Bengal regardless of his past. Good players rarely get cut no matter what they do off the field.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

[quote=70Chip;449281]The sad part is that the best indication that he shouldn't be signed is not his drug use, but the fact that the Bengals cut him. If he had anything at all he'd still be a Bengal regardless of his past. Good players rarely get cut no matter what they do off the field.[/quote]

Exactly. If this was Carson Palmer he'd still be on the roster. Look at Chad Johnson? He's bitched and moaned and he's not going anywhere cause they know he can help them win. If it was someone else crying with less value they'd be gone.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

On the flip side... every time I see a player available who I think could help the team I log onto this site and can't believe all the holier then thou posters who say a guy is a douche for getting a DUI or possession of Marijuana. None of you will ever have to work with the guy or even talk to him, if the FO decides that he's worth bringing in for a look at camp then they should.

If our country feels our president does not have to live up to your extreme "character" standards then acknowledge that you are in the minority Take a chill pill ... we're talking 'bout football.

Realize that you are not the only one with an educated football opinion on this board, and because you believe a certain way about this "character" conversation does not make you right. IMO the ones on this site who would make good FO people are the ones who look at these situations on a case by case basis, not making blanket decisions on personnel based on whether a player has a criminal record.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359;449275]If it was up to the people on the forums the Redskins would be made up of former starters from other teams, all with vet min + incentives contracts.[/QUOTE]

Hmm... having a 25 year old linebacker who was considered a top 8 talent overall at LB in 2007 as a [B]backup[/B] on our team at a bargain salary doesn't make a lot of sense.

It's not even worth considering.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

[quote=DGreene28;449327]Hmm... having a 25 year old linebacker who was considered a top 8 talent overall at LB in 2007 as a [B]backup[/B] on our team at a bargain salary doesn't make a lot of sense.

It's not even worth considering.[/quote]

I mean it's worth considering, but as a fan you're basically just banging your head against the wall. The Redskins don't like signing guys that are down in the count (ie two strikes). I'm surprised that people haven't mentioned that Odell has actually failed two drug test (the one he missed and another one that he actually took).

On top of that I have a problem with signing a guy that has f'ed up in the past as much as Odell and taking away reps in practice from guys that work their ass off while walking the straight and narrow. If history is any indication then one of the linebacker's on our roster will emerge as a solid contributer at OLB.

Take 2004 when the team got rid of Trotter, of course we signed Barrow but I think people knew that he wasn't going to suit up once we hit training camp. I'm pretty sure everyone was nervous as hell when they found out that Antonio Pierce would be our starting MLB and look how that turned out.

That same year Lavar was having problems staying healthy, and who emerged? Lamar Marshall. I doubt that anyone was talking about the guy before the season started but by the end of the year most of the people that followed the team knew who he was. And on top of that he gave us a pretty good year at MLB in 2005.

2006.......lets not talk about 2006.

2007 HB Blades emerges as a jack of all trades, and is now considered a possible succesor to Fletcher. Was anyone really talking about him before the season started? Doubt it, though some of the draft junkies probbly expected good things.

Plus if it turns out that we leave 2008 needing a LB, well your in luck because the 2009 draft is projected to be as good, if not better then the 2006 class in terms of LB's. Of course it's still early but at this point we're talking about LB prospects not QB's who seem to have a harder time staying on top.

If the team felt it needed another LB, then it would make a play for Odell, but they haven't so what does that tell you? The Redskins make me nervous sometimes but when it comes to Linebackers, 9 times out of 10 their usually right. Of course if history is any indication then Khary Campbell or Matt Sinclair will emerge as the mystery guy I'm alluding to, but Gatewood and Bryan Wilson also seem to be possible contribuers down the line though for now Wilson will play special teams as will Gatewood, but I can easily see the team using Gatewood as a rush LB on 3rd down situations. Not saying that those two undrafted guys are the answer, but as backups that will see extensive action in maybe 2 or 3 games well that I'm fine with.

And if worse comes to worse they'll probably just sign a former starter shortly after the season starts like they did last year with Godfrey, but next time please just pick on Matty instead of me. That way I won't feel compelled to write an essay.

Almost forgot, for what it's worth Matt Sinclair was one of the better players in NFL Europa when he played for Frankfurt, and on top of that he has experience at all 3 LB positions.

[URL="http://www.noticias.info/archivo/2006/200604/20060419/20060419_168134.shtm"]news - NFL: EUROPE: Matt Sinclair replies[/URL]

Plus if Odell is the same player that you alluded to being a former top 8 linebacker, then why hasn't anyone else taken a chance on him? Theres 30 other teams he could go to. Why did he get suspended for two years? I'm sure there were some things he did during his first year off that compelled Godell to give him another year, and even the Bengals said they "had not seen the right steps taken by him."

Look my point is theres more to this story then a skiped drug test, DUI, and dropped assault charge. The problem is we don't know what it is, but I'm pretty sure that every director of personel around the league does. Otherwise teams would be salavating over the chance to get a guy that was playing at the level Thurman was.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

[quote=DGreene28;449324]On the flip side... every time I see a player available who I think could help the team I log onto this site and can't believe all the holier then thou posters who say a guy is a douche for getting a DUI or possession of Marijuana. None of you will ever have to work with the guy or even talk to him, if the FO decides that he's worth bringing in for a look at camp then they should.

If our country feels our president does not have to live up to your extreme "character" standards then acknowledge that you are in the minority Take a chill pill ... we're talking 'bout football.

Realize that you are not the only one with an educated football opinion on this board, and because you believe a certain way about this "character" conversation does not make you right. IMO the ones on this site who would make good FO people are the ones who look at these situations on a case by case basis, not making blanket decisions on personnel based on whether a player has a criminal record.[/quote]

Excellent post, especially your last point, picking up a fa doesn't mean you don't value the draft, there's no absolute method.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

[quote=DGreene28;449324]On the flip side... every time I see a player available who I think could help the team I log onto this site and can't believe all the holier then thou posters who say a guy is a douche for getting a DUI or possession of Marijuana. None of you will ever have to work with the guy or even talk to him, if the FO decides that he's worth bringing in for a look at camp then they should.

If our country feels our president does not have to live up to your extreme "character" standards then acknowledge that you are in the minority Take a chill pill ... we're talking 'bout football.

Realize that you are not the only one with an educated football opinion on this board, and because you believe a certain way about this "character" conversation does not make you right. IMO the ones on this site who would make good FO people are the ones who look at these situations on a case by case basis, not making blanket decisions on personnel based on whether a player has a criminal record.[/quote]

I think you're taking this to an extreme just a bit here. I think most of us are willing to look past [I]some[/I] character issues, but when it comes to guys like Thurman who have quite the checkered legal history and is coming off a 2 year suspension from the league, sorry but that raises some pretty significant red flags to me.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

[quote=Mattyk72;449402]I think you're taking this to an extreme just a bit here. I think most of us are willing to look past [I]some[/I] character issues, but when it comes to guys like Thurman who have quite the checkered legal history and is coming off a 2 year suspension from the league, sorry but that raises some pretty significant red flags to me.[/quote]

I don't think he's taking it to an extreme, actually I felt he was replying to those in this thread that did just that.

Some comments in this thread, e.g. Dirtbag's (whose posts I usually like btw), went further than saying simply that signing Thurman was not a good idea, and actually said that people on this board would just sign other teams cuts & free agents to field a starting team. That was extreme IMO.

I didn't take DGreene's post as so much of an opinion on Thurman himself, rather he's just stating that any player can be evaluated by the front office regardless of their past, yet some on here are taking a "holier than thou" stance on character & criticizing those who don't. Which is again, another "extreme" which he is alluding to.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

Is it too extreme to say that someone with Thurman's legal past isn't worth looking at?? I'm not understanding why that's a 'holier than thou' attitude.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

I think every is entitled to their opinion. He has been nothing, but a problem.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

[quote=Mattyk72;449408]Is it too extreme to say that someone with Thurman's legal past isn't worth looking at?? I'm not understanding why that's a 'holier than thou' attitude.[/quote]

No, but I don't think that's the point.

See this post (#46 this thread) from Dirtbag (no intention of picking on him, I'm just saying I think it was this post or this kind of post that DGreene was referring to):

"If it was up to the people on the forums the Redskins would be made up of former starters from other teams, all with vet min + incentives contracts."

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

[quote=freddyg12;449433]No, but I don't think that's the point.

See this post (#46 this thread) from Dirtbag (no intention of picking on him, I'm just saying I think it was this post or this kind of post that DGreene was referring to):

[B]"If it was up to the people on the forums the Redskins would be made up of former starters from other teams, all with vet min + incentives contracts."[/B][/quote]

I don't think he meant that literally, but it does hold some truth when you think about it. I'm sure some people would been in favor or signing the likes of Tank Johnson, Chris Henry, Pacman Jones, and now Thurman.

Some people are big on character, some not so much. It all depends on what you value.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

Odell would only make sense if he was going to succeed Washington or Fletcher here.

As far as a depth veteran goes, we can do so much better, and get a guy with better character.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

Most people do not pick up on dirtbag's sarcasm.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

[quote=DGreene28;449324]On the flip side... every time I see a player available who I think could help the team I log onto this site and can't believe all the holier then thou posters who say a guy is a douche for getting a DUI or possession of Marijuana. None of you will ever have to work with the guy or even talk to him, if the FO decides that he's worth bringing in for a look at camp then they should.

If our country feels our president does not have to live up to your extreme "character" standards then acknowledge that you are in the minority Take a chill pill ... we're talking 'bout football.

Realize that you are not the only one with an educated football opinion on this board, and because you believe a certain way about this "character" conversation does not make you right. IMO the ones on this site who would make good FO people are the ones who look at these situations on a case by case basis, not making blanket decisions on personnel based on whether a player has a criminal record.[/quote]

The decision to pass him over because of "character" issues has nothing to do with our emotional opinion of his past. His record may be despicable and I may abhor guys like that, but that has no bearing on the decision.

His past shows that:

- The likelihood that he'll be cut or suspended in the future is higher than normal. If he's not available, he can't help us. A guy with elevated probability of suspension is no different than a guy with elevated probability of injury. All it takes is for him to violate the substance abuse policy one more time and the guy is gone from the league for good.

- Two years out of football will raise flags about anyone's ability to compete. Don't forget, the NFL contains world class athletes. I find it hard to believe that any player, as gifted as he may be, can just take two years off and come right back in prepared to pick up where he left off from an athletic perspective.

- Not only was he out of football for two years, but we're talking about bringing him into an entirely different defensive system. The Marvin Lewis system is far different than the Williams/Blache model we have here now. That's an awful lot of change at one time: guy comes back to football after two year hiatus, AND has to learn a new system, AND has to fit in with new teammates.

Plus as others mentioned, the Bengals wouldn't cut him if they felt he could make an impact for them.

Our [U]opinions[/U] on character, and how we [U]feel[/U] about his past, should have nothing to do with the decision. You objectively look at the player and his situation. In most cases, when you analyze questionable players objectively, even when you separate out your feelings, the risk is still rarely worth the reward.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

I can't believe this thread has 60 posts. The guy is a scumbag druggie who can't pass drug tests despite millions of dollars and gridiron glory riding on it.

Even if he wasn't a HUGE character risk, he plays MLB. Fletcher will be great for another year or two, and HB Blades is waiting in the wings to follow in his footsteps, and is a big special teams contributor in the meantime. There's no room for Thurman on this team.

This is silly.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

[quote=Schneed10;449452]....Our [U]opinions[/U] on character, and how we [U]feel[/U] about his past, should have nothing to do with the decision. You objectively look at the player and his situation. In most cases, when you analyze questionable players objectively, even when you separate out your feelings, the risk is still rarely worth the reward.[/quote]
100% Agree with the entire post. :thumb:

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

Marvin Lewis makes statement about the departure of Odell Thurman. They aren't going to be losing much in this clown that hasn't touched ground on a football field in 2 years.

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8086fdc6&template=with-video&confirm=true"]'No big deal,' Bengals move on without Thurman[/URL]

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

i voted NO. he has proven to be trouble.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

When some team pics him up and he goes back to the 100+ tackle season he had 2 yrs ago, every one will wish we jumped on him.....Hes only 25 and he was productive as hell as a starter for the bengals...What happens if Rocky cant come back????? The skins D is screwed...You can never have enough capable backups , especially when they come as cheap as he will

CM

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

only at minimum plus incentives.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

[quote=ChickenMonkey;449519][B]When[/B] some team pics him up and he goes back to the 100+ tackle season he had 2 yrs ago, every one will wish we jumped on him.....Hes only 25 and he was productive as hell as a starter for the bengals...What happens if Rocky cant come back????? The skins D is screwed...You can never have enough capable backups , especially when they come as cheap as he will

CM[/quote]

When is definitely the wrong word. You should change that to "if".

There's a really low chance that he's going to come back into the league after two years off and post 100+ tackles.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

If it wouldn't hurt our cap too much I don't see why not. He used to be really good, and if he doesen't perform or decides to get into more trouble we cut him.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

[quote=GMScud;449456]I can't believe this thread has 60 posts. The guy is a scumbag druggie who can't pass drug tests despite millions of dollars and gridiron glory riding on it.

Even if he wasn't a HUGE character risk, he plays MLB. Fletcher will be great for another year or two, and HB Blades is waiting in the wings to follow in his footsteps, and is a big special teams contributor in the meantime. There's no room for Thurman on this team.

This is silly.[/quote]

I don't think I've ever quoted myself, but good lord was I right about this ding dong.

Breaking news as of about 50 minutes ago:
[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/06/02/thurman.fails.test/?cnn=yes]LB Thurman faces indefinite suspension after drug test - NFL - SI.com[/url]

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

ESPN reported a few hours ago that this guy tested positive again for banned substances.
does'nt that men he's banned from the league now???

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

Shocker.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

The commish is takin care of business! Thurman is done for 2008!

[URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3429624"]ESPN - League again suspends ex-Bengal LB Thurman, out for 2008 - NFL[/URL]

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

Ok, I guess that means we have to cut him. No big deal (THIS IS SUCH A BIG DEAL), I mean we only signed him to vet min + incentives (THATS LIKE $700 THOUSAND DOLLARZ). But hey at least we took a chance (WE'RE SCREWED). Oh wait.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

As talented as this guy is, it would be risky at this point to take a chance on him until he gets cleaned up. Could you imagine having to prepare for a big game and after one night of partying, this guy lets the team down. That changes the dynamics of your defensive scheme, not even to mention the tremendous distraction it would cause for your ballclub. I not apposed to giving people a second chance, but this is different from being a disgruntle player, this is an addiction problem that needs to be addressed to make him a better man, then he can think about playing ball again.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

Man, I didn't really expect the topic of this thread to reach a resolution so quickly. It's kind of funny as with most things to see what people were saying about him before today, and how he should be our next great linebacker, then this happens.

Poor ChickenMonkey couldn't have been more wrong, but I respect the fact that he stood by his opinion so can't really blame him for believing in something. Then again the suggestion that the Redskins D was screwed if we lose Rocky and don't sign Odell might have been a little over the top, as this team is famous for producing overachievers year in and year out.

Trust me theres someone on our roster right now that you're going to like a lot at the end of the year, we just don't know who it is until we play, but my moneys on Matt Sinclair.

Anyway epic win for the people that answered no in the poll.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

Why is it that every player that is cut from other teams the Redskins should consider? and why is it every player someone asks if we should consider, if they are not a nun with a chastity belt or even have the slightest blemish (ie:CJ) then they are potential problem players and we should discount them? maybe we should pick up all our players from a religious college and change the name of the team to the "Washington Holey Rollers."

What was it Jesus said "Let the first person with out sin cast the first stone."

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

[quote=SBXVII;451825]Why is it that every player that is cut from other teams the Redskins should consider? and why is it every player someone asks if we should consider, if they are not a nun with a chastity belt or even have the slightest blemish (ie:CJ) then they are potential problem players and we should discount them? maybe we should pick up all our players from a religious college and change the name of the team to the "Washington Holey Rollers."

What was it Jesus said "Let the first person with out sin cast the first stone."[/quote]

It's not nesccesarily opposing every player with charcter issues so much as its the fact that we seem to suggest every available player with a decent rating on Madden. Character issues are just the icing on the cake. At least thats my take.

As far as opposing every player with the slighest blemish, well I wouldn't say that. I didn't oppose adding CJ because he was a problem child, I just preferred building through the draft. In fact I was still open to the possibility of adding him, but never was his character a concern as far as I go.

Now lets look at the players with character issues that have been suggested or signed.

James Hardy - Violent domestic dispute with his girlfiend followed by him pulling a gun on his own father after the draft. Not to mention during the draft I valued him as the 5th best big reciever based on talent alone behind Thomas, Nelson, Sweed, and Kelly.

Jerome Mathis - Wayne Brady

Odell Thurman - Out of the league for two years at the time of suggestion, character concerns surrounding possible drug dealing and addiction to ice before the draft. Two years away from football, plays a position we don't need help at not to mention a rich 2009 LB class in the next draft. Oh yeah, he's not playing next year due to another failed drug test, and this time it's an actual fail, not missed, just pure epic fail.

Chris Henry - My God I don't need to go into detail do I?

Personally I'm more humanist then religous, so save your chasity belt accusations for Mel Gibson :D However if you can think of a decent player suggested with character concerns then let me know. I might have missed a guy or two, but I rest my case concerning the guys I listed in this post.

As to why I tend to oppose players with character issues, well thats a whole nother post but generally when teamates respect each other they play harder so as not to let their teammates down. Brandon Lloyd comes to mind.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

Insightfull. Thank You. I did find it interesting that when the team hired Jarome Mathis to be a punt returner only a ripple in the pond was made. Maybe that was because it happened so fast and no one knew we were looking at him. but even though hardly a ripple was made while the whole time people were creating tsunami's about CJ and Briggs. Now it's Taylor from Miami, and Thurman.

I'll agree I don't want Thurman either. Drug problems. nuff said. People said no to trading for Taylor because he was to old. LOL. ok. He atleast has 2-3 more yrs left and that gives us time to groom someone or get someone. Now it sounds like Miami would not part with him.

Re: Odell Thurman Cut:
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan_nn;451753]The commish is takin care of business! Thurman is done for 2008!

[URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3429624"]ESPN - League again suspends ex-Bengal LB Thurman, out for 2008 - NFL[/URL][/QUOTE]

Well, time to lock this thread...where's Smoot when you need him? LOL.