Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

Honestly I don't think I have seen enough from JC to call him the long-term solution just yet. He still has a few kinks that need to be worked out, and most importantly he needs to win. I say we wait at least another year before we extend on JC.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

The impression I've gotten from the Redskins community is that theres three main views on Jason.

1. Jason Campbell sucks and ended up being a waste of a 1st round pick, Colt Brenen/Todd Collins is the future
2. Jason Campbell is like, the best Quarterback in the NFL
3. Jason Campbell is still developing but he's going to be good

I'm obviously fall under the third group, and why not? QB's take a while to develop and a 77 QB rating for a QB in his second year as a starter isn't bad at all. Of course I would have loved to see Campbell hit 85, but theres still a chance this year with an improved offense and a great QB coach for JC to take the next step in his development. Personally I think theres a good amount of teams around the league that would like to have JC as their starting QB. He probably won't end up being Peyton Manning, but he seems to be developing at a rate where he will have a nice long career in this league.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;449691]Your statements make you sound like a typical uneducated fan. The offense struggles so it must be the QBs fault. The offense puts up 35 points...it must be the "great QB". Unless of course Campbell is the QB, then he's just dumb (sarcasm).

Collins only started due to JC's injury. Gibbs traditionally doesn't start rookie QBs, so the first year JC really had little to no chance to see the field other than by injury. So your statement about Brunell/Collins starting 2/3 of the games since Campbell has been here, while close to factually accurate, doesn't paint the correct picture.

Gibbs and Saunders offenses come from the "Air Coryell" tree. The Air Coryell and WCO are not similar at all.

Lloyd and ARE were both Saunders guys.

[URL="http://hamptonroads.com/node/150111"]NFL Preview: Al Saunders on the attack for Redskins | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com[/URL]

"The free agents had to be able to get deep, to draw enough attention from linebackers, corners and safeties to give mercurial Santana Moss more man-to-man coverage or make room for Cooley's new, deeper pass routes. Once the defense is spread, Portis' chances of gashing them with breakaway runs would increase dramatically.
The two players Saunders thought offered the best chance to make that happen: San Francisco's Brandon Lloyd and Pittsburgh's Antwaan Randle El. In mid-March, Washington traded for Lloyd and signed Randle El.
[B]"He pushed hard for them," said Bob Saunders, Al's son and a Redskins assistant.[/B] "Everyone knows what Brandon can do on the football field, his speed, the acrobatic catches. With Randle El, it's what he can do in the slot, the double moves, his cutting ability. Getting them really expanded the offense."[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Gibbs and Saunders offenses come from the "Air Coryell" tree. The Air Coryell and WCO are not similar at all.
[/QUOTE]

Please learn to comprehend, the comparison of the offenses was to show the similarities between Gibbs, and Saunders so to rule out the new offense excuse that is constantly used for Campbell, it wasnt a drastically changed new offense, every coach will have variations on how a specific offense is run, but the foundation of the offense is the same. JUST LIKE THE WCO OFFENSE WHICH IS A BASIC PHILOSOPHY BUT VARIES FROM COACH TO COACH.

Who cares why Collins was starting? He did, and he ran the offense far beyond anything we have seen from Campbell, and Collins is a nobody in the realm of NFL QB's. Which brings us back to Campbells ability to run an NFL offense efficiently, and he hasn't so far.

[QUOTE] The offense struggles so it must be the QBs fault. The offense puts up 35 points...it must be the "great QB". Unless of course Campbell is the QB, then he's just dumb (sarcasm).
[/QUOTE]

So when did Campbell put up 35 points? But I guess you have figured out that it was all the WR's fault, the same WR's who actually started to produce when Collins took over.

It sounds to me like you have Campbell figured out to be something more than he has shown, he is what he is, a 4th year QB who has performed so far very sub par.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359;449810]The impression I've gotten from the Redskins community is that theres three main views on Jason.

1. Jason Campbell sucks and ended up being a waste of a 1st round pick, Colt Brenen/Todd Collins is the future
2. Jason Campbell is like, the best Quarterback in the NFL
3. Jason Campbell is still developing but he's going to be good

I'm obviously fall under the third group, and why not? QB's take a while to develop and a 77 QB rating for a QB in his second year as a starter isn't bad at all. Of course I would have loved to see Campbell hit 85, but theres still a chance this year with an improved offense and a great QB coach for JC to take the next step in his development. Personally I think theres a good amount of teams around the league that would like to have JC as their starting QB. He probably won't end up being Peyton Manning, but he seems to be developing at a rate where he will have a nice long career in this league.[/QUOTE]

Right now I would put myself in the 1 catagory above. It looks like Jason Campbell will be a bust just like the other Quarterbacks in his class (Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers). His QB rating, # of wins and game losing interceptions tell the story pretty well. However, we should give him one last shot and see what he can do as the starter for the entire season. Remember Eli Manning look like a bust early in his career but in year four he helped lead his team to the Super Bowl and win it. Jason Campbell is now in his fourth year just like Manning was when he won.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

To be fair collins has been in saunders offense for what? 7 years or so?

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

not to mention jc's been on the opposite spectrum of that, hes had a different offense to learn 7 years

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

I'm more inclined to say no. As much as I hope that Jason is the answer at qb, he has yet to instill that confidence at the position. This is his 4th year to show massive improvement from years past. Barring any injury he should be given every opportuntiy to do well. But, it depends on him, he killed us at the end of games with untimely ints., and that does nothing to prove to your teamates that you can come from behind and win games. He also needs to manage games better, and hopefully with a new coaching philosyphy that can be done. This season will be a litmus test for him and others.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=DiehardSkin88;449839]not to mention jc's been on the opposite spectrum of that, hes had a different offense to learn 7 years[/quote]

I think that storyline is overplayed. The guy can either do it or not. There shouldn't be a qualifier excuse if he doesn't pan out. Either the guy can adapt to his surroundings or not.

Any professional quarterback should have certain intangibles that he can bring to any offense. He's getting paid a professional salary, he should be able to adapt without excuses.

I've never heard Campbell complain about it himself and I don't like idea of people making exuses on his behalf.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[QUOTE=HOGTIMUS PRIME;449811]Please learn to comprehend, the comparison of the offenses was to show the similarities between Gibbs, and Saunders so to rule out the new offense excuse that is constantly used for Campbell, it wasnt a drastically changed new offense, every coach will have variations on how a specific offense is run, but the foundation of the offense is the same. JUST LIKE THE WCO OFFENSE WHICH IS A BASIC PHILOSOPHY BUT VARIES FROM COACH TO COACH.

Who cares why Collins was starting? He did, and he ran the offense far beyond anything we have seen from Campbell, and Collins is a nobody in the realm of NFL QB's. Which brings us back to Campbells ability to run an NFL offense efficiently, and he hasn't so far.



So when did Campbell put up 35 points? But I guess you have figured out that it was all the WR's fault, the same WR's who actually started to produce when Collins took over.

It sounds to me like you have Campbell figured out to be something more than he has shown, he is what he is, a 4th year QB who has performed so far very sub par.[/QUOTE]


When did Collins put up 35 points? He had 5 TD in four games. The Giants game he had zero TD's. You have a QB with a 102 rating only putting up only 5 TD in four games? Look at Brady, Manning, and even Romo. They have put up 4 TDs in one game. Lets be real the offense was horrible last year. The play calling was horrible whether Collins or Campbell was in the game.

I don't think Sammy was just blaming the WR's. I think he was saying Campbell had a lot of help with those seven losses.

Also the WR's were healthy when they played with Collins.

Also Campbell wasn't the only skins QB who struggled with Saunders offense, Brunell struggled also.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[QUOTE=redskinsgirl;450099]When did Collins put up 35 points? He had 5 TD in four games. The Giants game he had zero TD's. You have a QB with a 102 rating only putting up only 5 TD in four games? Look at Brady, Manning, and even Romo. They have put up 4 TDs in one game. Lets be real the offense was horrible last year. The play calling was horrible whether Collins or Campbell was in the game.

I don't think Sammy was just blaming the WR's. I think he was saying Campbell had a lot of help with those seven losses.

Also the WR's were healthy when they played with Collins.

Also Campbell wasn't the only skins QB who struggled with Saunders offense, Brunell struggled also.[/QUOTE]

Just more excuses, bottom line, Collins moved the ball and Campbell couldn't, and your really not helping campbells cause with the Brunell comparisons.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=HOGTIMUS PRIME;450134]Just more excuses, bottom line, Collins moved the ball and Campbell couldn't, and your really not helping campbells cause with the Brunell comparisons.[/quote]Dude, why don't you just start your own semi-pro franchise. You can send the Danny a 50 million dollar check to sell the rights to a 37 yr old QB, and then you can pay him like ten million dollars a year to be the cornerstone of your team.

I'm sure you'd be very successful.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=HOGTIMUS PRIME;450134]Just more excuses, bottom line, [B]Collins moved the ball and Campbell couldn't[/B], and your really not helping campbells cause with the Brunell comparisons.[/quote]

I did some homework to see if your opinion held any water and this is what I came up with.

In Campbell's 13 starts he averaged 217.4 yards passing per game. The offense as a whole averaged 358 yards per game during that time.

As for Collins in his 4 regular season games he averaged 213.5 yards passing per game. Meanwhile the offense averaged 343 yards per game during that time.

The biggest discrepancy came in points per game. Campbell averaged 17.6 (slightly skewed due to 0 points scored in the game vs. Chicago when he went down) in the lineup while Collins averaged 26.3. I'm guessing a good reason for this could have been more aggressive playcalling in the redzone when Collins was in the lineup.

But other than that your opinion that Campbell couldn't move the ball doesn't really make sense. He was clearly able to move the ball slightly better than Collins, but it appears that Collins was more effective at getting the ball into the end zone. Again, perhaps a function of the playcalling in the redzone.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;450148]Dude, why don't you just start your own semi-pro franchise. You can send the Danny a 50 million dollar check to sell the rights to a 37 yr old QB, and then you can pay him like ten million dollars a year to be the cornerstone of your team.

I'm sure you'd be very successful.[/QUOTE]

Whatever that's supposed to mean??????????????????????????????

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;450157]I did some homework to see if your opinion held any water and this is what I came up with.

In Campbell's 13 starts he averaged 217.4 yards passing per game. The offense as a whole averaged 358 yards per game during that time.

As for Collins in his 4 regular season games he averaged 213.5 yards passing per game. Meanwhile the offense averaged 343 yards per game during that time.

The biggest discrepancy came in points per game. Campbell averaged 17.6 (slightly skewed due to 0 points scored in the game vs. Chicago when he went down) in the lineup while Collins averaged 26.3. I'm guessing a good reason for this could have been more aggressive playcalling in the redzone when Collins was in the lineup.

But other than that your opinion that Campbell couldn't move the ball doesn't really make sense. He was clearly able to move the ball slightly better than Collins, but it appears that Collins was more effective at getting the ball into the end zone. Again, perhaps a function of the play calling in the red zone.[/QUOTE]

Can anyone here see the difference in our offense between the 2?

More aggressive play calling? Come on! Who you kidding, I can't believe the excuses being laid out for Campbell, it's every ones fault but him, so what if he moved the ball outside the red zone [occasionally] stats can get awfully scewed as well, bottom line our offense was playing with confidence under Collins, not with Campbell, does anyone really think we make the playoffs last season if Campbell doesn't go down?

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=HOGTIMUS PRIME;450171]Can anyone here see the difference in our offense between the 2?

More aggressive play calling? Come on! Who you kidding, I can't believe the excuses being laid out for Campbell, it's every ones fault but him, so what if he moved the ball outside the red zone [occasionally] stats can get awfully scewed as well, bottom line our offense was playing with confidence under Collins, not with Campbell, does anyone really think we make the playoffs last season if Campbell doesn't go down?[/quote]

I thought it was pretty obvious that the playcalling was more aggressive with Collins in the lineup and rightfully so. He knew the offense inside and out, while Campbell was in his 2nd season in it.

If it wasn't playcalling then what was it? Because the stats simply don't support your claim that JC couldn't move the ball.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

Jason Campbell certainly needs to [u]continue[/u] to improve. Those late game interceptions he threw against Dallas and Tampa need to turn into touchdowns. Will he make mistakes again? Sure, every QB does. But they need to be few and far between.

Who knows if we would have made the playoffs had Campbell been the QB? Collins did a great job leading the team down the stretch. But then again, everyone stepped it up down the stretch.

I'm sure confidence in the QB played a part (why shouldn't it, Collins probably knows the Saunders offense better than Saunders himself), but so did inspired post-tragedy play, healthy players, players getting more accustomed to playing the system and playing with each other. See: Reche Caldwell getting key catches as he got more familiar with the offense and got some playing time; Fabini and Heyer getting comfortable playing together on the right side (and Wade being benched!). And not to mention that Joe Gibbs is one of the best December coaches ever, and almost always sets his teams up to finish strong.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=HOGTIMUS PRIME;450171]Can anyone here see the difference in our offense between the 2?

More aggressive play calling? Come on! Who you kidding, I can't believe the excuses being laid out for Campbell, it's every ones fault but him, so what if he moved the ball outside the red zone [occasionally] stats can get awfully scewed as well, bottom line our offense was playing with confidence under Collins, not with Campbell, does anyone really think we make the playoffs last season if Campbell doesn't go down?[/quote]
I can't believe your continued defense of a weak and wrong (as many have shown in this thread) argument. As SC Fan so eloquently put it, we're "casting pearls before swine".

I can't wait for the season, I'll definitely be referring back to this thread....weekly.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

Its only clear we don't have a great Qb. I liked Jason coming out of the draft but he has yet to show me something. We haven't had a quarterback since well like 15 years. lets go down the list of flunkies..Campbell can't close the door on a game if his hands were glued to it. Mark brunell was scared to throw it further then 6 yards and inside the hash marks. Patrick Ramsey what were we thinking? Trent Green was one of the ones who got away and we didn't really groom correctly he was the one who got away. Jeff George was passed his time. Oh yeah didn't an another idiot qb hurt his neck hitting a concrete wall? I rest my case. The times we have won is when we played some smashmouthed defense and run the ball down their throats. I don't see no big reason to sign this kid until he proves himself.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

Anyone wanna take a guess as to who HOGTIMUS PRIME really is?

Check out some of his other posts, it's not too hard to figure out if you've been around here a while.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;450237]Anyone wanna take a guess as to who HOGTIMUS PRIME really is?

Check out some of his other posts, it's not too hard to figure out if you've been around here a while.[/quote]


Well let me take two shots....like at the carnival, you just can't stop at one. offiss or whatever it is OR irish! Sorry guys but hope I'm right and its at least one of you two.......LOL

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

damn that didn't take long

It's not Irish he has a legit account here.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;450172]I thought it was pretty obvious that the playcalling was more aggressive with Collins in the lineup and rightfully so. He knew the offense inside and out, while Campbell was in his 2nd season in it.

If it wasn't playcalling then what was it? Because the stats simply don't support your claim that JC couldn't move the ball.[/QUOTE]

I agree that the playcalling was more agressive but thats because TC could handle it while JC couldnt. JC has to improve his throwing technique and his decision making speed. Last year TC was light years faster so we'll have to see if JC can make any improvement. I really think this is a make or break year for JC. He has been in the league awhile now and this is not the coaching staff that gave up a bunch of picks to draft him, he has to perform or I really believe Zorn & Co will look for another QB.

BTW, I can state for the record that I am not and never have been hogtimus prime.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

You have to wonder though... was the conservative nature of the play calling justified with Campbell in the lineup?

Because when the reins were loosened up a bit and he was allowed to sling it around in the no-huddle and call his own plays, he played very well.

I think Gibbs was perhaps a little too protective of him. I don't think we'll see the same from Zorn though.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;450364]You have to wonder though... was the conservative nature of the play calling justified with Campbell in the lineup?

Because when the reins were loosened up a bit and he was allowed to sling it around in the no-huddle and call his own plays, he played very well.

I think Gibbs was perhaps a little too protective of him. I don't think we'll see the same from Zorn though.[/quote]Officially though, I don't think it made a big difference.

He would have been just as successful if they opened it up, more INT's balanced out by higher YPA.

I think they were conservative due to the injuries more than anything. When you have injuries, you absolutely have to play it more conservative. The thought process was that if they could get a healthy team going into the playoffs, Campbell might be able to shine there.

As it was, he didn't make it that far. Thank you Jason Fabini.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;450411]Officially though, I don't think it made a big difference.

He would have been just as successful if they opened it up, more INT's balanced out by higher YPA.

I think they were conservative due to the injuries more than anything. When you have injuries, you absolutely have to play it more conservative. The thought process was that if they could get a healthy team going into the playoffs, Campbell might be able to shine there.

As it was, he didn't make it that far. Thank you Jason Fabini.[/QUOTE]

I dont think Gibbs was protecting him, I think Gibbs saw that JC couldnt make the decisions quick enough. They wouldnt have been as successful because JC just couldnt have handled it.

As mentioned above, we will see with Zorn.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=irish;450434]I dont think Gibbs was protecting him, I think Gibbs saw that JC couldnt make the decisions quick enough. They wouldnt have been as successful because JC just couldnt have handled it.

As mentioned above, we will see with Zorn.[/quote]Injuries though, #1 reason for sure.

After that, you may be right who knows.

It's possible that you could be totally right and Gibbs totally wrong and Campbell has a monster year. Could happen.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

Good article, note this section:

[quote]Jason Campbell went 8-for-11 for 88 yards during that stretch, using an approach that was strikingly different from the usual Gibbs philosophy. Instead of emphasizing the run and taking the occasional deep shot, [B]the quarterback moved the team down the field with a mixture of runs and short passes, borrowing a page from the West Coast offense[/B].[/quote]

[url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2007-11-14-3409518821_x.htm]Redskins players lobby Gibbs to go no-huddle: 'We went out and made it work' - USATODAY.com[/url]

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

test post, didn't see post 61-67...it was showing a page 5 when I hovered over it said post 61-71, but when I clicked on page 5 it it took me to page 4..there must have been no real posts there on 5 yet...now page 5 is real because of this post.
Confused

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

What I really want to see is how Zorn deals with Campbell's very, very slow delivery. Unless Campbell can make quicker decisions and unload more quickly, he won't go to the next level. If he does get to the next level, pay him. If not, don't pay top dollar for average play. Hold off for now.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=skinsnut;449416]Last year we extended contracts for key players...such as Cooley and Betts.
These moves were highly praised.
I know a few here think Campbell may not be our long term answer because of his winning record....However, I do believe he is solid and will improve.

The best time to buy is when perceived value is low.
The last thing we want to do is wait until after he has a breakout year to double his value.

At worst, he will not improve...which is still better than any QB the Skins have had since Brad Johnson...(excluding Collins' 4 game push and Brunell for a short time)

What do you think?
Should we use our 07 cap space to lock up JC?

Schneed....what is his likely value now and can it work with the cap space we have?[/quote]

Well folks...most respondants to this offseason thread wanted to wait and see before extending Campbell....
The first quarter of the year is over....

I say...time to extend Campbell, what do you think now?

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=skinsnut;482683]Well folks...most respondants to this offseason thread wanted to wait and see before extending Campbell....
The first quarter of the year is over....

I say...time to extend Campbell, what do you think now?[/quote]

We need to do it sooner than later.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

I agree do it on the plane ride home from Dallas haha!

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

He has proven himself anyway but after he lead the team and beat the cowgirls yessir extent him

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

Campbell is playing with so much poise right now, yet we need to remember that he's only beginning to grasp the WCO. The more successful he becomes, the more he can demand for his next contract. I don't know what the cap situation looks like, but if we can extend Campbell's contract during the season, we should.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

While we're at extend Zorn all those assisstant years have paid off this guy can coach!

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=SouperMeister;482712]Campbell is playing with so much poise right now, yet we need to remember that he's only beginning to grasp the WCO. The more successful he becomes, the more he can demand for his next contract. I don't know what the cap situation looks like, but if we can extend Campbell's contract during the season, we should.[/quote]

All great points, this is why we need to do this now. If we wait and he continues to get better in this offense, Dan will be writing his biggest check since he bought the team.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

Ooooh, I want to say yes, but let's wait until the playoffs. No need to be hasty.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

I'd wait 'til the off-season. Yes Snyder will write a bigger check, but a distraction right now is not what we need.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

If this keeps up I would definitely look to extend him at some point during the middle of the season.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

I agree with most but hey our line gave him the time he today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hail to the skins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!