re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

Without zone blocking, probably not. But zone blocking leads to more of a chance of injury as you tend to take bigger hits from stronger and faster guys rather than have a couple pull you down. Now he can be more explosive this year no doubt.

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

LOL Addai got hurt on his first carry of the season last year. Give me a break.

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[quote=love them hogs;450739]I thought that I heard Zorn say the running scheme is going to be the same as it was last year.He is only changing the passing schemes.So if you expect Portis to come back to "form", it will come from his and the o-lines health and not a change in scheme.[/quote]

yeah i heard the same thing, alot of changes in the passing game but running stays the same . . . . but were they talking about the schemes or language/terms?

also alot of people seem to think that if we use broncos zone blocking scheme portis will get back to his bronco form but didnt we switch to zone blocking last year to create lanes for portis to pick and choose his holes and cuts when gibbs smashmouth was not working?

my guess, 1,300 rushing yards 10 tds = the usual solid contribution from mr. portis

go skins!

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;450861]Is this some sort of joke? Barber, assuming you're talking about Marion, has started only three games in the past four years (or something like that)

Addai had 261 carries last year for a 4.1 ypc average. Portis had 325 carries last year with hardly any drop-off in ypc (3.9) versus Addai. Portis also had more receptions and receiving yards than Addai-47 catches, 389 yards vs 41 catches, 364 yards. Each had 8 games of 20+ carries, though two of Portis' were actually 30+ carries.

I think Addai is a very good running back, but you're making a mistake if you use him in an argument against Portis.[/QUOTE]

Who's argueing against Portis? I said he will still be productive but his best days are behind him.

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[QUOTE=irish;450870]Who's argueing against Portis? I said he will still be productive but his best days are behind him.[/QUOTE]

Did you not just say Portis seems to have something bothering him all the time and has to take every couple of plays off, yet Addai is there on the field playing play after play?

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[quote=irish;450870]Who's argueing against Portis? I said he will still be productive but his best days are behind him.[/quote]

I don't know about that. I think if he comes in healthy this year he's poised for another big year. Given the circumstances, I think he had a big year in 07. Comparing stats is good to an extent, but you can't compare his performance here to denver too much because he's only had a fully healthy o line for most of one of his years here - 05. Even then, Thomas got hurt in the dallas game & missed the end +playoffs.

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;450871]Did you not just say Portis seems to have something bothering him all the time and has to take every couple of plays off, yet Addai is there on the field playing play after play?[/QUOTE]

Yep I said that. I'm not argueing against him, I'm just stating my observations. Like I have said 3 or 4 times now, he will still be productive but he is on the decline not the incline. He might pop out a big year but its not something he could sustain for 2 or 3 more years.

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[QUOTE=irish;450879]Yep I said that. I'm not argueing against him, I'm just stating my observations. Like I have said 3 or 4 times now, he will still be productive but he is on the decline not the incline. He might pop out a big year but its not something he could sustain for 2 or 3 more years.[/QUOTE]

Ok, so help me out here. Your observation is that Addai is a reliable back who can be counted on play after play, yet Portis is not?

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

at the risk of getting red flagged i agree with irish; portis is near the end of the "prime" part of his career and 2-3 years from now i think we will need a new runningback.

(please dont red flag or give me negative rep points, while i know writing something remotely negative about a skin gets you hell on here, this is just my opinion. i love the skins and portis and jerome and sheriff gonna getcha and warpath.)

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;450881]Ok, so help me out here. Your observation is that Addai is a reliable back who can be counted on play after play, yet Portis is not?[/QUOTE]

It seems every time I watch an indy game Addai is in the game and running hard while it seems like when I watch the skins CP is coming out after a couple of plays and on the sideline with his helmet off sucking wind.

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

Portis is right now in the prime age for a running back, 27, but very rarely do players at age 27 have quite as many carries as Portis had in the past.

Look, if you are saying that you are 100% not concerned that we've already guaranteed Portis' 2009 salary to him, you are simply fooling yourself here.

Nobody in this thread yet believes that Portis won't be productive this season. But, again, it's hard to get a gauge on exactly why he was so unproductive (3.9 YPC, career ave. 4.5) last season. There are a bunch of possible reasons and it was probably a combination of all of them:

1) The offensive line was decimated.

2) He's been worked too hard too often. (343 carries in 2004, 352 in 2005, 325 in 2006)

3) He's been around for awhile, and it's possible his actual age is hiding the age of his body. (Broke into the NFL at age 21--7 years ago)

4) He could have been hiding an injury.

Again, probably was a combination of the first three factors there, but facts are facts, and reasons two and three are only going to get worse with time.

Of course, reason one is already fixed. So he could be in line for a career year. And one of his closest similarity scores is Emmitt Smith. He should be better than last year pretty easily. I'm just wondering how long before a 2007-type year becomes the norm for CP.

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

Also, don't forget what happened to this potential hall of famer after his age-26 season:

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaviTe00.htm]Terrell Davis Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[QUOTE=irish;450888]It seems every time I watch an indy game Addai is in the game and running hard while it seems like when I watch the skins CP is coming out after a couple of plays and on the sideline with his helmet off sucking wind.[/QUOTE]

Ok, fair enough. I disagree, but that's fine.

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

Addai is probably a weak example to be using. He's not exactly an iron man and his workload has been pretty light these last 2 years in comparison to someone like Portis.

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[quote=irish;450888]It seems every time I watch an indy game Addai is in the game and running hard while it seems like when I watch the skins CP is coming out after a couple of plays and on the sideline with his helmet off sucking wind.[/quote]

More impressionistic generalizations that are the constant bane of fan conversation. Last year Addai had 261 carries and Marion Barber (who I am assuming you were referring to with your Barber comment earlier) ahd 204. Meanwhile Portis had 325 carries. Kenton Keith, Addai's primary backup, had 121 carries while Ladell Betts had 93. Even ignoring the fact that a two-back rotation isn't such a bad thing, I'd say that your commentary about Portis continually returning to the sideline to "suck wind" is just inaccurate.

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;450892]Portis is right now in the prime age for a running back, 27, but very rarely do players at age 27 have quite as many carries as Portis had in the past.

Look, if you are saying that you are 100% not concerned that we've already guaranteed Portis' 2009 salary to him, you are simply fooling yourself here.

Nobody in this thread yet believes that Portis won't be productive this season. But, again, it's hard to get a gauge on exactly why he was so unproductive (3.9 YPC, career ave. 4.5) last season. There are a bunch of possible reasons and it was probably a combination of all of them:

1) The offensive line was decimated.

2) He's been worked too hard too often. (343 carries in 2004, 352 in 2005, 325 in 2006)

3) He's been around for awhile, and it's possible his actual age is hiding the age of his body. (Broke into the NFL at age 21--7 years ago)

4) He could have been hiding an injury.

Again, probably was a combination of the first three factors there, but facts are facts, and reasons two and three are only going to get worse with time.

Of course, reason one is already fixed. So he could be in line for a career year. And one of his closest similarity scores is Emmitt Smith. He should be better than last year pretty easily. I'm just wondering how long before a 2007-type year becomes the norm for CP.[/quote]

So on YPC alone you're saying his season was unproductive?

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

Portis also fumbled 6 times last year and that was 2nd highest in the NFL. Based on his career though, that should not be a problem ever again.

He was also very, very, poor in power situations, but I'm willing to throw 100% of that on the offensive line situation.

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;450898][B]More impressionistic generalizations that are the constant bane of fan conversation.[/B] Last year Addai had 261 carries and Marion Barber (who I am assuming you were referring to with your Barber comment earlier) ahd 204. Meanwhile Portis had 325 carries. Kenton Keith, Addai's primary backup, had 121 carries while Ladell Betts had 93. Even ignoring the fact that a two-back rotation isn't such a bad thing, I'd say that your commentary about Portis continually returning to the sideline to "suck wind" is just inaccurate.[/quote]

tell me about it

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[quote=over the mountain;450882]at the risk of getting red flagged i agree with irish; portis is near the end of the "prime" part of his career and 2-3 years from now i think we will need a new runningback.

(please dont red flag or give me negative rep points, while i know writing something remotely negative about a skin gets you hell on here, this is just my opinion. i love the skins and portis and jerome and sheriff gonna getcha and warpath.)[/quote]

You're not going to get negative rep for that. As long as your opinion is well stated and backed up with some solid though behind it you have nothing to worry about. And disagreeing with a moderator does not get you negative rep despite what some idiots may think.

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;450892]Portis is right now in the prime age for a running back, 27, but very rarely do players at age 27 have quite as many carries as Portis had in the past.

Look, if you are saying that you are 100% not concerned that we've already guaranteed Portis' 2009 salary to him, you are simply fooling yourself here.

Nobody in this thread yet believes that Portis won't be productive this season. But, again, it's hard to get a gauge on exactly why he was so unproductive (3.9 YPC, career ave. 4.5) last season. There are a bunch of possible reasons and it was probably a combination of all of them:

1) The offensive line was decimated.

2) He's been worked too hard too often. (343 carries in 2004, 352 in 2005, 325 in 2006)

3) He's been around for awhile, and it's possible his actual age is hiding the age of his body. (Broke into the NFL at age 21--7 years ago)

4) He could have been hiding an injury.

Again, probably was a combination of the first three factors there, but facts are facts, and reasons two and three are only going to get worse with time.

Of course, reason one is already fixed. So he could be in line for a career year. And one of his closest similarity scores is Emmitt Smith. He should be better than last year pretty easily. I'm just wondering how long before a 2007-type year becomes the norm for CP.[/quote]

Running backs typically fall off a cliff after they turn 30 (or after they rush for 370 carries in a single season), almost invariably actually, unless your name is Emmitt Smith or a select few others (on age rather than carries). I'd say given his size and physical style of play the same is in store for Portis. I'd point out, though, that another guy who compares favorably in terms of both size and workload with Portis is Curtis Martin. Through his first 6 seasons Martin carried the ball 2010 times while Portis has carried 1710 times. Martin remained highly productive until year 10 (when he both turned 31 and had 371 carries ... a virtual RB death sentence). I'd say we could probably expect something approaching that sort of career arch for Portis, barring a major injury of course.

The thing that ticks me off is the notion that Portis was so much better in Denver and that he has not lived up to expectations in Washington. That is the impression given, not by you obviously, but at the open of this thread. I find that frustrating and lacking perspective.

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MartCu00.htm]Curtis Martin Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PortCl00.htm]Clinton Portis Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[QUOTE=SC Skins Fan;450898]More impressionistic generalizations that are the constant bane of fan conversation. Last year Addai had 261 carries and Marion Barber (who I am assuming you were referring to with your Barber comment earlier) ahd 204. Meanwhile Portis had 325 carries. Kenton Keith, Addai's primary backup, had 121 carries while Ladell Betts had 93. Even ignoring the fact that a two-back rotation isn't such a bad thing, I'd say that your commentary about Portis continually returning to the sideline to "suck wind" is just inaccurate.[/QUOTE]

Numbers are nice but they dont tell the whole story. Maybe you can find a time spent sucking wind stat to verify your numerical analysis that my views are inaccurate.

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;450892]Portis is right now in the prime age for a running back, 27, but very rarely do players at age 27 have quite as many carries as Portis had in the past.

Look, if you are saying that you are 100% not concerned that we've already guaranteed Portis' 2009 salary to him, you are simply fooling yourself here.

Nobody in this thread yet believes that Portis won't be productive this season. But, again, it's hard to get a gauge on exactly why he was so unproductive (3.9 YPC, career ave. 4.5) last season. There are a bunch of possible reasons and it was probably a combination of all of them:

1) The offensive line was decimated.

[B] 2) He's been worked too hard too often. (343 carries in 2004, 352 in 2005, 325 in 2006)[/B]

3) He's been around for awhile, and it's possible his actual age is hiding the age of his body. (Broke into the NFL at age 21--7 years ago)

4) He could have been hiding an injury.

Again, probably was a combination of the first three factors there, but facts are facts, and reasons two and three are only going to get worse with time.

Of course, reason one is already fixed. So he could be in line for a career year. And one of his closest similarity scores is Emmitt Smith. He should be better than last year pretty easily. I'm just wondering how long before a 2007-type year becomes the norm for CP.[/quote]

That's the point I don't get. We've had Betts the entire time Portis has been there. We gave Betts $11M in the offseason last year, and he barely saw the ball. In the meantime, our franchise back is getting more carries than any back in the league. Seems to me the smart move would have been to give Betts 50-75 of the carries Portis has had each season. If you do that every season that Portis has been here, you add an extra year or so worth of carries to his career.

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[quote=irish;450911]Numbers are nice but they dont tell the whole story. Maybe you can find a time spent sucking wind stat to verify your numerical analysis that my views are inaccurate.[/quote]

LOL this is comical.

He gives you some solid analysis and all you can come back with is a totally subjective and weak take that you saw him sucking wind.

Brilliant.

:doh:

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[quote=irish;450911]Numbers are nice but they dont tell the whole story. Maybe you can find a time spent sucking wind stat to verify your numerical analysis that my views are inaccurate.[/quote]

I'd say that leading the league in rushing attempts is a pretty good start and would actually place the burden on you to demonstrate that your point is valid. Leading all rushers in attempts strikes me as a priori evidence that you are wrong. I don't have the desire to go through every play-by-play or comb through every game tape to make the point that you are wrong. The onus is on you to prove your point because the "nice numbers" suggest otherwise.

You can't even get that info from the play-by-play since that does not show who is on the field on passing downs. So after you cull through the game films why don't you let me know what you find. Good luck.

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

Can somebody please correct the thread title? I have avoided this eyesore all day until now. It pains me to read it.

re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[QUOTE=Angry;450923]Can somebody please correct the thread title? I have avoided this eyesore all day until now. It pains me to read it.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, good point. I've been meaning to add that "h" all day but every time I click on this thread I get sucked into actually reading certain posts here (certain mind-boggling posts)

I'll change it now

Re: Is this a year were Portis is Broncos Portis?
 

[quote=GMScud;450912]That's the point I don't get. We've had Betts the entire time Portis has been there. We gave Betts $11M in the offseason last year, and he barely saw the ball. In the meantime, our franchise back is getting more carries than any back in the league. Seems to me the smart move would have been to give Betts 50-75 of the carries Portis has had each season. If you do that every season that Portis has been here, you add an extra year or so worth of carries to his career.[/quote]It would have made great sense in October and November when Portis really wasn't doing anything. Save the guy's legs for December. Luckily, Portis still performed well in December, and didn't see a significant amount of carries in the playoff game. Very easily, Portis could have been brutalized in the playoffs, simply because Betts wasn't used properly in the regular season.

We dodged a bullet on that one.

Re: Is this a year were Portis is Broncos Portis?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;450928]It would have made great sense in October and November when Portis really wasn't doing anything. Save the guy's legs for December. Luckily, Portis still performed well in December, and didn't see a significant amount of carries in the playoff game. Very easily, Portis could have been brutalized in the playoffs, simply because Betts wasn't used properly in the regular season.

We dodged a bullet on that one.[/quote]

Good point. Also, didn't Al Saunders consistently rave about Betts? Further proof that Gibbs curbed much of his play calling?

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

Saunders raved about a lot of players who:

1) Weren't very good.

2) For whatever other reason, couldn't get on the field.

Re: Is this a year were Portis is Broncos Portis?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;450928]It would have made great sense in October and November when Portis really wasn't doing anything. Save the guy's legs for December. Luckily, Portis still performed well in December, and didn't see a significant amount of carries in the playoff game. Very easily, Portis could have been brutalized in the playoffs, simply because Betts wasn't used properly in the regular season.

We dodged a bullet on that one.[/quote]

He actually had his 2 biggest games in Nov when he rushed for 196 and 137 yards in back to back weeks.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

I think this season we will give Betts more carries this year like around 100-125 and Portis will have 250-275

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;450932]Saunders raved about a lot of players who:

1) Weren't very good.

2) For whatever other reason, couldn't get on the field.[/quote]

True, but when Portis got hurt in '06, Betts proved he is a damn good back, we gave him a nice extension, and follow it up by giving him less than 6 carries a game on average in 2007. Doesn't make much sense to me.

Re: Is this a year were Portis is Broncos Portis?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;450933]He actually had his 2 biggest games in Nov when he rushed for 196 and 137 yards in back to back weeks.[/quote]He did have a really good game against the Jets. Also carried the ball 36 times in the game, if memory serves.

I'm not pissed that the guy ran up 196 yards, but I am peeved that he carried the ball so many times. Would we have lost that one if Betts carried ten of those times? I doubt it.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[quote=GMScud;450935]True, but when Portis got hurt in '06, Betts proved he is a damn good back, we gave him a nice extension, and follow it up by giving him less than 6 carries a game on average in 2007. Doesn't make much sense to me.[/quote]No, I'm with you on this one. Could have certainly saved the money on him if we weren't going to lose him.

There's absolutely no reason to think Rock couldn't carry the ball 5 times a game. Then again, I'm thinking Betts is only here as an insurance policy for Portis, rather than a legitimate 2nd RB.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[quote=irish;450911]Numbers are nice but they dont tell the whole story. Maybe you can find a time spent sucking wind stat to verify your numerical analysis that my views are inaccurate.[/quote]
Numbers may not show the whole picture but they don't lie either. Handling over 77% over the RB rushes on a team that was 5th in Total Rush Attempts for the NFL is the closest to a NON-"sucking wind" stat as you're gonna find.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[url=http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=36071]For Portis, It's 'Big Man Football'[/url]

It has been suggested that Portis could approach--or even surpass--the 2,000-yard rushing mark in 2008. Only five players have accomplished that feat in NFL history.

"It's a great goal," Portis said. "A lot of people have put it out there and they think I can accomplish it. For me, it's whatever it's going to take for us to win. If for us to win, it's going to take me running for 2,000 yards, then I look forward to that. If they're going to put it on my back, I'm all for it."

He added: "I go out and I play big man football. That's what I want to do. I want to run wild. I think with the new coaching staff--as much as I love Coach Gibbs--this could be my opportunity to run wild."

Probably one of the better articals on redskins.com ive read. Since when has there been talk about him running for 2k this year?

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[QUOTE=mlmpetert;450953][url=http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=36071]For Portis, It's 'Big Man Football'[/url]

It has been suggested that Portis could approach--or even surpass--the 2,000-yard rushing mark in 2008. Only five players have accomplished that feat in NFL history.

"It's a great goal," Portis said. "A lot of people have put it out there and they think I can accomplish it. For me, it's whatever it's going to take for us to win. If for us to win, it's going to take me running for 2,000 yards, then I look forward to that. If they're going to put it on my back, I'm all for it."

He added: "I go out and I play big man football. That's what I want to do. I want to run wild. I think with the new coaching staff--as much as I love Coach Gibbs--this could be my opportunity to run wild."

Probably one of the better articals on redskins.com ive read. Since when has there been talk about him running for 2k this year?[/QUOTE]

As much as I would love to see him reach the 2k mark, I don't see it realistically happening. Our o-line still doesen't carry much depth and it seems every year someone is going down, I just can't count on a perfectly healthy o-line. Another thing is, for Portis to reach 2k the passing game is going to have to become a legit threat at all times, in all situations. Something we are going to have to wait and see about.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

Also, if the coach is competent, the only way he allows a player to sniff 2,000 yards is if the player is averaging 6.0 yards an attempt or better.

Even when he was in Denver, Portis was only a 5.5 YPC guy. I'm happy with him being a 1,400-1,500 guy.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

as long as the hogs stay healthy,portis's potential has no limit.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;450963]Also, if the coach is competent, the only way he allows a player to sniff 2,000 yards is if the player is averaging 6.0 yards an attempt or better.

Even when he was in Denver, Portis was only a 5.5 YPC guy. I'm happy with him being a [SIZE="4"]1,400-1,500[/SIZE] guy.[/QUOTE]

True true, Portis is a 1400-1500 a year kinda back when at hes best...............but funny thing is at his best could be way more.

I think a Broncos Portis is just or maybe as close as you can get to a LT back that not even Adrian Peterson can say anything about that.