Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=Schneed10;452822]Philosophically, I'm right there with you. From a practical standpoint, a flat tax just won't work. Either our government would experience a drastic reduction in revenues, or way too many people would be thrust into poverty.[/quote]
I agree. I would like to see us move to the Fair Tax. The Fair Tax would still be progressive in that those making more will spend more dollars, therefore paying the same or very close to the same percentage of the federal tax bill that they are paying now. I know there are some disagreements in the details of rate and who will actually be paying what portion of the federal tax bill, but the disagreements can be overcome (ref. to the FactCheck.org article). A new method of collecting federal taxes that reduces our tax code to something manageable, cuts the IRS to a fraction of its current size, taxes the underground economy, brings more businesses & jobs back to the U.S., and shuts down half of "K St." has my support.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=dmek25;452840]saden, have you started drinking the kool aid? staying in Iraq for 100 years shouldn't even be an option. and [B]im interested to hear what people think would happen, if we do pull out?[/B] and the comment about wiping terrorists off the face of the earth is down right brutal. i don't care if we fight the gazillion years in Iraq, there will always be terrorists. i think you have done a 180 degree turn in your thinking[/quote]
Iran will probably take over Iraq, and then nuke Israel. Ahmadinejad is totally insane and said he wanted to wipe Israel off the map, which would bring us right back into the war, but it will be much, much worse.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=steveo395;452864]Iran will probably take over Iraq, and then nuke Israel. Ahmadinejad is totally insane and said he wanted to wipe Israel off the map, which would bring us right back into the war, but it will be much, much worse.[/quote]

I wish we could just drop a nuke on the Iranians and just be done with it.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

you're adding so much value to the thread saden :/

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

I generally oppose starting wars because they are costly and often counterproductive and the American public has demonstrated that it lacks the intestinal fortitude to finish what it start (see Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq). I also believe our defense budget is, at least during peacetime, far too large. But, I also believe that you don't cause a mess, spend billions of dollars, lose thousands of troops, and lay American credibility (vis-a-vis our enemies, not Europe or college professor) on the line and simply walk away from the conflict and those who have stuck their necks out because it's tough or we are losing lives.

I am also pissed that I work 5 months out of the year for the government. I believe our taxes are WAY to high. I'd like to see cuts in taxes AND many government programs (including the defense budget). I don't think any of those ideas are contradictory.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

You know I was going to join this thread on the discussion of taxes, but when I hear idiots actually defending staying in Iraq because we owe the poor Iraqi people, I just lose all respect for them. We should worry about Americans! Our leaders lied to us and there is absolutely no excuse to keep risking the lives of our troops to make up for the "mistakes" (yeah right) of Bush and Cheaney. The money we are spending on this war could be going to education and healthcare. Instead of feeling bad for Iraqi people, maybe you should think about the 50 million Americans that do not have healthcare. We are the only modern industrialized country that does not have universal healthcare. France is ranked No.1 by the W.H.O. (world healthcare org) and the U.S. is ranked 37th. In France if you are sick a doc will come to your house, here you are thrown in the street if do not have insurance. Anyone who supports Iraq, should not be allowed to speak!!! PERIOD!!!! You are an idiot who really needs to pick up a book and do some research about the ramifications this war has had on our country and for nothing. There is nothing to be gained. We have created more Anti-American sentiment by being there, than there was previously. Iraq was never a threat to us, it was Osama Bin Laden, whom we still have not caught. Thank god the days of the Republicans in Washington are coming to an end!!!!!!!!!! OBAMA says knock you out!!!

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

I don't really want to get deep into this discussion cause it ends up being a touchy subject for many, but the only true "fair" way to impose taxes is to make it a flat percentage. It's shouldn't matter if you make 1 million a year, or 10k a year, you should have the same percentage taken out of your check. (note, not the same "AMOUNT", but same "PERCENTAGE"). The fact that people that make more money are taxed more even though they worked for the money is beyond me. Punish the rich is not my idea of equality.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=That Guy;452881]you're adding so much value to the thread saden :/[/quote]


Thanks.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=jsarno;452902]I don't really want to get deep into this discussion cause it ends up being a touchy subject for many, but the only true "fair" way to impose taxes is to make it a flat percentage. It's shouldn't matter if you make 1 million a year, or 10k a year, you should have the same percentage taken out of your check. (note, not the same "AMOUNT", but same "PERCENTAGE"). The fact that people that make more money are taxed more even though they worked for the money is beyond me. Punish the rich is not my idea of equality.[/quote]

I couldn't agree more. If we had a flat tax everything would be great. If you make 10K you should get another job or second job and then you might be able to afford that $4.50 gallon of gas and that $4 gallon of milk and won't have to rely on a tax scheme that fleeces the rich.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=RIGGO/NYC;452889]You know I was going to join this thread on the discussion of taxes, but when I hear idiots actually defending staying in Iraq because we owe the poor Iraqi people, I just lose all respect for them. We should worry about Americans! Our leaders lied to us and there is absolutely no excuse to keep risking the lives of our troops to make up for the "mistakes" (yeah right) of Bush and Cheaney. The money we are spending on this war could be going to education and healthcare. Instead of feeling bad for Iraqi people, maybe you should think about the 50 million Americans that do not have healthcare. We are the only modern industrialized country that does not have universal healthcare. France is ranked No.1 by the W.H.O. (world healthcare org) and the U.S. is ranked 37th. In France if you are sick a doc will come to your house, here you are thrown in the street if do not have insurance. Anyone who supports Iraq, should not be allowed to speak!!! PERIOD!!!! You are an idiot who really needs to pick up a book and do some research about the ramifications this war has had on our country and for nothing. There is nothing to be gained. We have created more Anti-American sentiment by being there, than there was previously. Iraq was never a threat to us, it was Osama Bin Laden, whom we still have not caught. Thank god the days of the Republicans in Washington are coming to an end!!!!!!!!!! OBAMA says knock you out!!![/quote]

"if you don't agree with me you're stupid and not allowed to speak or have an opinion."

wow, that's productive and not at all close minded.

maybe you should do some of that aforementioned research.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[QUOTE=RIGGO/NYC;452889]Anyone who supports Iraq, should not be allowed to speak!!! PERIOD!!!! You are an idiot who really needs to pick up a book and do some research about the ramifications this war has had on our country and for nothing.[/QUOTE]

Be glad that I don't think like you and ban you. "If you don't agree with me, I don't want to hear you talk." You and the Bushies are two sides of the same coin. It's that kind of close-mindedness that has gotten us into the trouble that you are complaining about.

If you can't engage others with different viewpoints in a civil manner, you will not last long here. We had to shut down the political threads a while back because of troubled individuals. I hope we don't have to do the same thing again.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

This wasn't even supposed to [U]be[/U] a political thread - I was just wondering what the cutoff for "rich" is these days.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=RIGGO/NYC;452889]You know I was going to join this thread on the discussion of taxes, but when I hear idiots actually defending staying in Iraq because we owe the poor Iraqi people, I just lose all respect for them. We should worry about Americans! Our leaders lied to us and there is absolutely no excuse to keep risking the lives of our troops to make up for the "mistakes" (yeah right) of Bush and Cheaney. The money we are spending on this war could be going to education and healthcare. Instead of feeling bad for Iraqi people, maybe you should think about the 50 million Americans that do not have healthcare. We are the only modern industrialized country that does not have universal healthcare. France is ranked No.1 by the W.H.O. (world healthcare org) and the U.S. is ranked 37th. In France if you are sick a doc will come to your house, here you are thrown in the street if do not have insurance. Anyone who supports Iraq, should not be allowed to speak!!! PERIOD!!!! You are an idiot who really needs to pick up a book and do some research about the ramifications this war has had on our country and for nothing. There is nothing to be gained. We have created more Anti-American sentiment by being there, than there was previously. Iraq was never a threat to us, it was Osama Bin Laden, whom we still have not caught. Thank god the days of the Republicans in Washington are coming to an end!!!!!!!!!! OBAMA says knock you out!!![/quote]
When I see posts like this which are mainly rhetoric and name-calling I lose all respect for the poster.

Here are some places where people are not allowed to speak; Cuba, Venezula, North Korea, Iraq (pre-2003), Afghanistan (pre-2001), Soviet Union (pre-fall of the Berlin Wall)

Before you call people idiots and suggest they don't read, I would suggest you read the attached links rather than get all your info from the headlines of the NY Times, Washington Post and ABC:

[URL="http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/889pvpxc.asp"]Saddam's Dangerous Friends[/URL]

[URL="http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/804yqqnr.asp"]The Mother of All Connections[/URL]

[URL="http://www.nationalreview.com/mccarthy/mccarthy200406010821.asp"]Andrew C. McCarthy on Iraq on National Review Online[/URL]

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=RIGGO/NYC;452889]You know I was going to join this thread on the discussion of taxes, but when I hear idiots actually defending staying in Iraq because we owe the poor Iraqi people, I just lose all respect for them. We should worry about Americans! Our leaders lied to us and there is absolutely no excuse to keep risking the lives of our troops to make up for the "mistakes" (yeah right) of Bush and Cheaney. The money we are spending on this war could be going to education and healthcare. Instead of feeling bad for Iraqi people, maybe you should think about the 50 million Americans that do not have healthcare. We are the only modern industrialized country that does not have universal healthcare. France is ranked No.1 by the W.H.O. (world healthcare org) and the U.S. is ranked 37th. In France if you are sick a doc will come to your house, here you are thrown in the street if do not have insurance. Anyone who supports Iraq, should not be allowed to speak!!! PERIOD!!!! You are an idiot who really needs to pick up a book and do some research about the ramifications this war has had on our country and for nothing. There is nothing to be gained. We have created more Anti-American sentiment by being there, than there was previously. Iraq was never a threat to us, it was Osama Bin Laden, whom we still have not caught. Thank god the days of the Republicans in Washington are coming to an end!!!!!!!!!! OBAMA says knock you out!!![/quote]

Wow. I mean, I've had my share of run-ins with the forum guidelines, but this is a doozy.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;452909]I couldn't agree more. If we had a flat tax everything would be great. If you make 10K you should get another job or second job and then you might be able to afford that $4.50 gallon of gas and that $4 gallon of milk and won't have to rely on a tax scheme that fleeces the rich.[/QUOTE]

No...it's righting what is already wrong.
You see the "rich" as people that can afford to pay more, and you're right, they can...but why should they? If you can somehow convince me that is equality, then your sarcasm holds water...until then get off your poor me soapbox and think of someone other than yourself...think of what is "fair".

ps- if you only make 10k a year, you're damn right you need a second job, or a better first...you shouldn't expect others to pay the way for you. (which is what you are suggesting with your sarcasm)

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=RIGGO/NYC;452889]You know I was going to join this thread on the discussion of taxes, but when I hear idiots actually defending staying in Iraq because we owe the poor Iraqi people, I just lose all respect for them. We should worry about Americans! Our leaders lied to us and there is absolutely no excuse to keep risking the lives of our troops to make up for the "mistakes" (yeah right) of Bush and Cheaney. The money we are spending on this war could be going to education and healthcare. Instead of feeling bad for Iraqi people, maybe you should think about the 50 million Americans that do not have healthcare. We are the only modern industrialized country that does not have universal healthcare. France is ranked No.1 by the W.H.O. (world healthcare org) and the U.S. is ranked 37th. In France if you are sick a doc will come to your house, here you are thrown in the street if do not have insurance. Anyone who supports Iraq, should not be allowed to speak!!! PERIOD!!!! You are an idiot who really needs to pick up a book and do some research about the ramifications this war has had on our country and for nothing. There is nothing to be gained. We have created more Anti-American sentiment by being there, than there was previously. Iraq was never a threat to us, it was Osama Bin Laden, whom we still have not caught. Thank god the days of the Republicans in Washington are coming to an end!!!!!!!!!! OBAMA says knock you out!!![/quote]

Another Marxian propaganda perpetrator in the house. If you like France so much why don't you move there? It seems to me that you'll be much happier there.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=jsarno;452925]No...it's righting what is already wrong.
You see the "rich" as people that can afford to pay more, and you're right, they can...but why should they? If you can somehow convince me that is equality, then your sarcasm holds water...until then get off your poor me soapbox and think of someone other than yourself...think of what is "fair".

ps- if you only make 10k a year, you're damn right you need a second job, or a better first...you shouldn't expect others to pay the way for you. (which is what you are suggesting with your sarcasm)[/quote]

Since you feel the rich have no obligations for the welfare of society, would it be fair to say that I am entitled to be unsupported in matters concerning their welfare?

p.s. If the world was fair and everything was equal the word rich would be undefined.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=onlydarksets;452913]This wasn't even supposed to [U]be[/U] a political thread - I was just wondering what the cutoff for "rich" is these days.[/quote]

most people consider it 250k, but i think 500k for a household is a much better figure due to the cost of living around DC.

and, btw (not to onlydarksets, but other wh've mentioned it), i don't think a flat tax is entirely fair, since someone making 25k/year needs that extra 15% a lot more than someone making 20mill/year.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=That Guy;452931]most people consider it 250k, but i think 500k for a household is a much better figure due to the cost of living around DC.

and, btw (not to onlydarksets, but other wh've mentioned it), i don't think a flat tax is entirely fair, since someone making 25k/year [B]needs[/B] that extra 15% a lot more than someone making 20mill/year.[/quote]


It's about being able to put food on the table and having enough to live.

BTW someone making 250K a year makes ~14K a month after taxes (without deduction) in Virginia. Are we subscribing to the Sprewell mantra here?

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=saden1;452934]It's about being able to put food on the table and having enough to live.

BTW someone making 250K a year makes ~14K a month after taxes (without deduction) in Virginia. Are we subscribing to the Sprewell mantra here?[/quote]

wtf are you talking about? i said someone making 25k a year needs the 15% that a flat tax would charge them to live on, since 25k/year is dick money. I don't see what's so sprewell about someone who'd make $1770/month w/ rent or a condo mortgage running $1100 in NoVa needing the 15% extra that a flat tax would take from him.

please read my posts more carefully :P it's not like this is the first or fourth time.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;452915]When I see posts like this which are mainly rhetoric and name-calling I lose all respect for the poster.

Here are some places where people are not allowed to speak; Cuba, Venezula, North Korea, Iraq (pre-2003), Afghanistan (pre-2001), Soviet Union (pre-fall of the Berlin Wall)

Before you call people idiots and suggest they don't read, I would suggest you read the attached links rather than get all your info from the headlines of the NY Times, Washington Post and ABC:

[URL="http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/889pvpxc.asp"]Saddam's Dangerous Friends[/URL]

[URL="http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/804yqqnr.asp"]The Mother of All Connections[/URL]

[URL="http://www.nationalreview.com/mccarthy/mccarthy200406010821.asp"]Andrew C. McCarthy on Iraq on National Review Online[/URL][/QUOTE]

Ok, those links are all from the Weekly Standard and National Review -- both pro-Bush, neocon stink tanks if there ever was one. That's exactly the same as leftists getting all their news from the NY Times, Washington Post and ABC.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=That Guy;452931]most people consider it 250k, but i think 500k for a household is a much better figure due to the cost of living around DC.[/quote]

That seems more reasonable to me. Then again, I don't make $500k/year, so it's hard to speak for that type of household.

You're right though - cost of living is a factor.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;452937]Ok, those links are all from the Weekly Standard and National Review -- both pro-Bush, neocon stink tanks if there ever was one. That's exactly the same as leftists getting all their news from the NY Times, Washington Post and ABC.[/QUOTE]

Well you can find examples from places like ABC News, from as far back as a decade ago (if not longer)

However, that's not what this thread is about

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;452915]

Before you call people idiots and suggest they don't read, I would suggest you read the attached links rather than get all your info from the headlines of the [b]NY Times, Washington Post and ABC[/b]:

[URL="http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/889pvpxc.asp"][COLOR=#0000ff]Saddam's Dangerous Friends[/COLOR][/URL]
[COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR]
[URL="http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/804yqqnr.asp"][COLOR=#0000ff]The Mother of All Connections[/COLOR][/URL]
[COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR]
[URL="http://www.nationalreview.com/mccarthy/mccarthy200406010821.asp"][COLOR=#0000ff]Andrew C. McCarthy on Iraq on National Review Online[/COLOR][/URL][/quote]


How does ABC make the list? Giant corporate owned media outlet that doesn't really provide any worthwhile news (and employs George Will at least one day a week) - no offense to anyone in their employ, hey ESPN still has some good stuff. Could we at least get credit for some decent Trotskyite outlets like [I]The Nation [/I]or NPR or even [I]The New Republic[/I]?

[quote=saden1;452926]Another Marxian propaganda perpetrator in the house. If you like France so much why don't you move there? It seems to me that you'll be much happier there.[/quote]

Saden, I think you might have hit upon the best way to respond to this thread ... I might just totally ignore it if not for your wonderful hyperbole.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;452772]I wonder what these people would do if they actually had to go live the life of someone who is actually working class? I think they might just shrivel up and die, the strain would be just too much for them. "I can't put 15% in my 401k and Junior might have to go to a state school. Whoas me!"

Notice also that among the costs that are putting the 'squeeze' on these poor folks are health care and education. Let's think about that one for a second.[/quote]
Well the people I know who makes that kind of money started from the bottom. Some worked their way to the top and some took tons in loans so to become doctors. These guys work harder then anyone I know and thats why they have the incomes they do today. They are the working class as much as anyone of us. If they went back to what you call the working class they would just work their way up as they did the first time. I just do not get your way of thinking or maybe you just have not been around and seen how hard people work to make that kind of money. I guess you could point out some who had it handed to them. You could also find some not working that hard today but it was the hard work they put in when younger to enjoy life a little more from the top.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=That Guy;452935]wtf are you talking about? i said someone making 25k a year needs the 15% that a flat tax would charge them to live on, since 25k/year is dick money. I don't see what's so sprewell about someone who'd make $1770/month w/ rent or a condo mortgage running $1100 in NoVa needing the 15% extra that a flat tax would take from him.

please read my posts more carefully :P it's not like this is the first or fourth time.[/quote]


Don't have a cow man, I'm not trying to antagonize you, I'm merely elaborating on what you wrote.

The Sprewell reference is in regards to 250K possibly not being enough.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=saden1;452971]Don't have a cow man, I'm not trying to antagonize you, I'm merely elaborating on what you wrote.

The Sprewell reference is in regards to 250K possibly not being enough.[/quote]

k, it sounded like you were mis-interpreting what i had written though, and where referencing sprewell to the unfairness of flat taxes for those of low income, which, of course, makes no sense.

250k per household in NoVA would make up too high a percentage to call it rich. two gov/dod contractors in one house can easily hit that mark. at 500k you're either getting stock options, or own a pretty decent business, or have acquired enough cash to live off investing...

it's not that 250k isn't enough to live on, it's just not exactly rich compared to the median income and cost of living near major cities, though it is towards the higher end.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=That Guy;452935]wtf are you talking about? i said someone making 25k a year needs the 15% that a flat tax would charge them to live on, since 25k/year is dick money. I don't see what's so sprewell about someone who'd make $1770/month w/ rent or a condo mortgage running $1100 in NoVa needing the 15% extra that a flat tax would take from him.

please read my posts more carefully :P it's not like this is the first or fourth time.[/quote]
Under the flat tax plain lower income families would receive a tax credit so low income families would still not pay taxes under the flat tax plan. Some would even receive more credit back then they paid in taxes.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=firstdown;452953]Well the people I know who makes that kind of money started from the bottom. Some worked their way to the top and some took tons in loans so to become doctors. These guys work harder then anyone I know and thats why they have the incomes they do today. They are the working class as much as anyone of us. If they went back to what you call the working class they would just work their way up as they did the first time. [b]I just do not get your way of thinking or maybe you just have not been around and seen how hard people work to make that kind of money.[/b] I guess you could point out some who had it handed to them. You could also find some not working that hard today but it was the hard work they put in when younger to enjoy life a little more from the top.[/quote]

My simple point was that I wonder what these people would do if they found themselves having to support a family of four on a household income of $40,000-45,000. But maybe you haven't been around and seen how hard people work to make that kind of money (my dad was a carpenter, my wife's father a fire fighter - obviously if they possessed more personal virtue they would have attained greater things and made more money). I have a tough shedding tears for folks who are crying poor because they make $300,000 and their taxes might go up 3%.

It is a basic question about the role of government in society, which is the core of the ideological divide between what we refer to as liberalism and conservatism. George Will calls it the difference between 'freedom' and 'equality' (as well as the difference between truth and fantasy, but I'll avoid such a dichotomy), which contains some truth perhaps. I'd say that only those at the top can experience true freedom because at the bottom economic necessity greatly constrains choice, so I'd disagree with Will, but I do think equity - if not equality - should be a core American value. I also think that people who 'succeed' do so not only by their virtue but with the help of a social infrastructure (roads, police enforcement, the rule of law, government policy, etc.) that supports the attainment and aggregation of wealth. That they therefore have an obligation to to contribute to the maintenance of that infrastructure. It strikes me that rolling back parts of the Bush tax cuts is not particularly onerous and that those cuts were a bad idea in the first place, especially given the apparent imperative of fighting a war that has cost exponentially more than what we were told by the administration in 2003. You can disagree, certainly, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't treat me like I am just some idiot who 'hasn't been around'. Maybe, rather than being a simpleton, I disagree ideologically.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[QUOTE=SC Skins Fan;453007]I also think that people who 'succeed' do so not only by their virtue but with the help of a social infrastructure (roads, police enforcement, the rule of law, government policy, etc.) that supports the attainment and aggregation of wealth.[/QUOTE]

I think that few wealthy individuals have a problem paying for roads, police, the military, etc. Some government programs, however, are not so vital to our society or economy and I think some people have a problem paying for them.

[QUOTE=SC Skins Fan;453007]It strikes me that rolling back parts of the Bush tax cuts is not particularly onerous and that those cuts were a bad idea in the first place, especially given the apparent imperative of fighting a war that has cost exponentially more than what we were told by the administration in 2003.[/QUOTE]

Some of his tax cuts, however, actually increased tax revenue. Reducing the capital gains tax, for example, actually increased capital gains tax revenue. Moreover, capital gains tax cuts were not aimed squarely at the upper echelons of society. More than 50% of the American households report capital gains/losses. Moreover, the notion that we should increase taxes on people who have gained money by pumping money into the economy sounds somewhat counterproductive to me, especially in light of the fallout of the subprime market and its aftershocks (e.g., limited credit availability for M&A and capital expenditures).

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;453007]My simple point was that I wonder what these people would do if they found themselves having to support a family of four on a household income of $40,000-45,000. But maybe you haven't been around and seen how hard people work to make that kind of money (my dad was a carpenter, my wife's father a fire fighter - obviously if they possessed more personal virtue they would have attained greater things and made more money). I have a tough shedding tears for folks who are crying poor because they make $300,000 and their taxes might go up 3%.[/quote]
Why stop there? $40-50k/year is excess. You can live off of $12k a year:
[url=http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/CreateaPlan/RetireOnTwelveThousandDollarsAYear.aspx]How to retire on $12,000 a year - MSN Money[/url]

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

:pimp:Dude if you want to ban me go ahead. Unlike some people on this forum, I actually have a life and would lose no sleep over not being able to post, since as you can see from my history I do not post often anyway. Anyway, yeah I might get a little overboard when it comes to political discussions, as I am a political science major and certain subjects are particullarly sensitive to me. Especially when people are speaking about something that is not a debatable subject. There is no justification for this war whatsoever. When I see soldiers on TV without legs (blown off for nothing, but oil) and children that will never know their fathers, it is the people who try to justify this war that I most despise. I wonder if they would give their legs or they're own lives while their wives were pregnant with their baby, so that their child would have never known them. Yeah, but god forbid we cut and run and America looks bad, that is whats really important, America has to show how powerful it is. Maybe America should show it has the ability to admit when it is wrong. Really ask yourself, is this war worth one American life. Answer: NO! Nevertheless, the person whose post I was responding to clearly did not do their research on the Iraq war. There is no debate to be had on the subject. If you support the war, then you clearly have a low IQ and just simply have not weighed the postives versus the negatives. Politicians employ a rhetoric in a time of war that is similar to the appoach they take with the "war on drugs." They try to strike fear in to individuals to gain their support for their approach and those nieve enough to buy this nonsense are just not intellectually worthy of my rebuttle. Therefore, I'd rather just have a little fun with their under-educated minds and insult them. Call it childish, but I act childish when speaking to adults with the intellect of a 7 year-old. No, I do not get my info from the NY Times (the best paper in the world), but I get it from BBC and my classes at school. Go to Europe and see what the citizens in many of the western/central EU countries think of the United States current course in foreign affairs, instead of sitting around your local Irish Pub in D.C. Nooooooo PLEASE DO NOT BANNN MEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MY LIFE WOULD BE OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :sleep:GO REDSKINS!!! (Something we do agree on):grouphug:
P.S. If any of you knuckle heads really want a debate, then I will gladly accept the challenge. I'll gather the other students on my debate team and we can take this discussion to a public blog. I would love to just humiliate anyone who supports this war. :duel::argue:

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=RIGGO/NYC;453020]P.S. If any of you knuckle heads really want a debate, then I will gladly accept the challenge. [B]I'll gather the other students on my debate team and we can take this discussion to a public blog.[/B] I would love to just humiliate anyone who supports this war. [/quote]

:insane:

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=firstdown;452990]Under the flat tax plain lower income families would receive a tax credit so low income families would still not pay taxes under the flat tax plan. Some would even receive more credit back then they paid in taxes.[/quote]

Isn't this just another form of taxing the rich to pay for poor people services? Receive money back? You mean like EIC where these bums get money back even though they didn't pay any taxes?

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;453008]
Some of his tax cuts, however, actually increased tax revenue. Reducing the capital gains tax, for example, actually increased capital gains tax revenue. Moreover, capital gains tax cuts were not aimed squarely at the upper echelons of society. More than 50% of the American households report capital gains/losses. Moreover, the notion that we should increase taxes on people who have gained money by pumping money into the economy sounds somewhat counterproductive to me, especially in light of the fallout of the subprime market and its aftershocks (e.g., limited credit availability for M&A and capital expenditures).[/quote]

I don't claim to understand the in's and out's of tax policy, but the 'tax revenue increases with decreased rates of taxation' is apparently a questionable assertion.

[url=http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/the_budget_according_to_mccain_part_ii.html]FactCheck.org: The Budget According to McCain: Part II[/url]

But if we want to cut taxes then we have to cut spending (which is what McCain said way back in 2001/2003) because the effects of the current administration's policies have been to enlarge the deficit enormously. It is the 'no sacrifice required' ethos that infuses so much of contemporary American culture. And with McCain's current rhethoric that means cutting domestic spending, which has consequences. So then you have to ask who is being asked to sacrifice and who gains most from that sacrifice.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

RIGGO/NYC, quit while you're behind. Debate team? This isn't high school!

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=RIGGO/NYC;453020]:pimp:Dude if you want to ban me go ahead. Unlike some people on this forum, I actually have a life and would lose no sleep over not being able to post, since as you can see from my history I do not post often anyway. Anyway, yeah I might get a little overboard when it comes to political discussions, as I am a political science major and certain subjects are particullarly sensitive to me. Especially when people are speaking about something that is not a debatable subject. There is no justification for this war whatsoever. When I see soldiers on TV without legs (blown off for nothing, but oil) and children that will never know their fathers, it is the people who try to justify this war that I most despise. I wonder if they would give their legs or they're own lives while their wives were pregnant with their baby, so that their child would have never known them. Yeah, but god forbid we cut and run and America looks bad, that is whats really important, America has to show how powerful it is. Maybe America should show it has the ability to admit when it is wrong. Really ask yourself, is this war worth one American life. Answer: NO! Nevertheless, the person whose post I was responding to clearly did not do their research on the Iraq war. There is no debate to be had on the subject. If you support the war, then you clearly have a low IQ and just simply have not weighed the postives versus the negatives. Politicians employ a rhetoric in a time of war that is similar to the appoach they take with the "war on drugs." They try to strike fear in to individuals to gain their support for their approach and those nieve enough to buy this nonsense are just not intellectually worthy of my rebuttle. Therefore, I'd rather just have a little fun with their under-educated minds and insult them. Call it childish, but I act childish when speaking to adults with the intellect of a 7 year-old. No, I do not get my info from the NY Times (the best paper in the world), but I get it from BBC and my classes at school. Go to Europe and see what the citizens in many of the western/central EU countries think of the United States current course in foreign affairs, instead of sitting around your local Irish Pub in D.C. Nooooooo PLEASE DO NOT BANNN MEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MY LIFE WOULD BE OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :sleep:GO REDSKINS!!! (Something we do agree on):grouphug:
P.S. If any of you knuckle heads really want a debate, then I will gladly accept the challenge. I'll gather the other students on my debate team and we can take this discussion to a public blog. I would love to just humiliate anyone who supports this war. :duel::argue:[/quote]
Seriously - if you think college gives you the world view you need to speak definitively on a subject, you have a lot of learning left to do. One of the first things you'll learn in the real world is that there are very few "undebatable" subjects ([URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/parking-lot/23710-officer-kills-man-who-beat-toddler.html"]here is one[/URL]). You make yourself sound like my 4 year old when you make posts like the above.

And, for the record, I agree with your opinion of the war.

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=saden1;453025]RIGGO/NYC, quit while you're behind. Debate team? This isn't high school![/quote]

I think if you were in high school that line would result in some form of beating. "If you take my lunch money again I will return with my debate team breathren and we will vanquish you with our superior intellect!"

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;453025]RIGGO/NYC, quit while you're behind. Debate team? This isn't high school![/QUOTE]

The moron is gone. Makes me ashamed to think he and I are fellow Redskins fans and fellow Americans. He must be a real winner during his debates. I imagine his "rebuttles" go something like "Nuh uh...I'm rubber, you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you."

Good riddance

Re: Taxing the rich - what is the cutoff?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;453029]The moron is gone. Makes me ashamed to think he and I are fellow Redskins fans and fellow Americans. He must be a real winner during his debates. I imagine his "rebuttles" go something like "Nuh uh...I'm rubber, you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you."

Good riddance[/quote]
He ruined my thread, Smooty - he [B]ruined [/B]it! I'm [B]never [/B]talking to him again. We should totally fork his lawn.