Re: russia/ georgia
 

I'm not sure if there's anyone left who will argue that Bush has been a great president. I voted for the guy, and I'm more than happy to tell you he's been a disaster.

Unfortunately some people have such a blind hatred of Bush that they simply look past everything else. Bush is bad, therefore he's to blame for everything: your flat tire, your dog that isn't housebroken and your wife who just left you.

Bush has been a miserable president, but to attribute every random crisis to him is just asinine and shows a complete inability to reason through a particular situation.

Like SmootSmack said, it's a complex situation involving a number of countries - simply saying "It's all Bush's fault" is an absurd oversimplification.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[QUOTE=Angry;464589]In 2004 the military was considering reinstituting the Draft.

[URL="http://media.www.thelantern.com/media/storage/paper333/news/2004/04/19/Opinion/U.s-Considering.Mandatory.Draft-664493.shtml"]U.S. considering mandatory draft - Opinion[/URL]

And again in 2007

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/08/10/war.adviser.draft.ap/]Iraq war czar: Consider a draft - CNN.com[/url]

In 2007 it was explained why they didn't.

[URL="http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070813150223.tj19y2s7&show_article=1"]US not considering draft: Pentagon[/URL]

Conclusion: It is not a strectch of the imagination that reinstituting the Draft is considered by our government and military from time to time. However, they always revert back to the "An all volunteer Army is a better Army" theory.[/QUOTE]

The issues gets brought up on a regular basis by, usually by Rep. Rangel or someone else. It always gets defeated and isn't considered a viable option by hardly any military experts.

The modern U.S. military isn't what is was back in WW2. The amount of training and time that goes into a U.S. soldier is astronomical. They don't just grab a few guys, show them which end of the gun to point toward the enemy and send them on their way. These guys are operating complex pieces of technology on a daily basis and require an incredible amount of training.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but reinstating the draft is VERY unlikely. It's usually brought up as a way to strike some fear into people so we don't get into a war or extend ourselves. Kind of along the lines of, "Oh, you want to go to war huh? How about we reinstate...the DRAFT!" And Rangel jumps out of a closet waving his arms...

Re: russia/ georgia
 

This is actually a good thread. Just skimming the posts, I don't if it's already been mentioned what Russia's true justification is for invading South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

For the past ten years or so Russia has been sending passports to the citzens of both regions. Thereby making both of these regions pro-Russia in many ways. So when Georgia, allegdly, got into a conflict with the citzens of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, Russia felt justified in "protecting" their people. See they don't see this as an invasion, but rather protecting Russian citizens. And the fact that the U.S. needs Russia to help us with the situation in Iran, further ties our hands to act in any meaningful way.

This is a european problem if you ask me. I just don't see how this Administration or the next one, for that matter, can do much about Russia's designs on becoming a world power once again.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

Just to add to the my last point, oil and energy is also in play here. It's just plain old messy.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=SmootSmack;464694]I think you mean dmek's post starting the thread, not saden's.[/quote]
Ok I'm all backwards right now.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[QUOTE=mheisig;464705] They don't just grab a few guys, show them which end of the gun to point toward the enemy and send them on their way. [/QUOTE]

Unless they score poory on their [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASVAB"]ASVAB[/URL], then that's pretty much what happens.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

Well, [URL="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080815/ap_on_re_eu/russia_us_missile_defense"]this is more serious[/URL]:

[QUOTE]A top Russian general said Friday that Poland's agreement to accept a U.S. missile interceptor base exposes the ex-communist nation to attack, possibly by nuclear weapons, the Interfax news agency reported.

The statement by Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn is the strongest threat that Russia has issued against the plans to put missile defense elements in former Soviet satellite nations.

Poland and the United States on Thursday signed a deal for Poland to accept a missile interceptor base as part of a system the United States says is aimed at blocking attacks by rogue nations. Moscow, however, feels it is aimed at Russia's missile force.

"Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike — 100 percent," Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of staff, was quoted as saying.

He added, in clear reference to the agreement, that Russia's military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons "against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them." Nogovitsyn that would include elements of strategic deterrence systems, he said, according to Interfax.[/QUOTE]

If I was Poland I would return those missiles and try to make peace with the Russians...god knows no one in this country or Europe cares about you.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

International poltics is so complicated that I would not even begin to discuss this topic without reading newspapers from several countries, reading the history of Georgia, understanding the culture, and try and figure out any behind door deals that were done.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=saden1;464729]Well, [URL="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080815/ap_on_re_eu/russia_us_missile_defense"]this is more serious[/URL]:



If I was Poland I would return those missiles and try to make peace with the Russians...god knows no one in this country or Europe cares about you.[/quote]

Sabre rattling at it's best. What else is Russia supposed to say? "No big deal. We like having neighboring countries with missile launching and intercepting capabilities." How would you react if your neighbor chains up 3 or 4 pitbulls right up against your property, just in case you decide to break in and steal his Patrick Ramsey rookie card collection. You'll probably say: "If one of those dogs sh*ts in my yard, I'm filling it full of lead." But, you're not going to kill the dogs unless provoked. You've made it clear to your neighbor that you're not intimidated and will react with appropriate measures. Insanely simple analogy but I have a limited imagination.

For the record, I think the missile defense shield is a bad move. Russia's equivalent of NORAD will detect a launch by an interceptor missile, calculate it's course and have a projected area of impact in about 1 minute. All it takes is for one missile of ours to malfunction and, instead of hitting a rogue state's incoming missile, winds up heading eastward into russian territory. That's when it starts getting a little hairy. Better have a good diplomat on hand, like Ben Affleck's character Jack Ryan in The Sum Of All Fears.

Speaking of which, I can't help but marvel at Tom Clancy's nostradamus-like ability to write a fictitional story and watch parts of it unfold in real life. In Debt of Honor he has a Japanese airline pilot attack the Capitol building during a State of the Union address, which is reminiscent of the 9/11 attacks. In Red Storm Rising, Russia attacks it's southern oil rich neighbors in order to combat an attack by terrorists on their own major oil refinery. Not exactly the same... but still.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

If you want to criticize Bush, his pulling out of the ABM Treaty was a tremendous mistake, imo. First, the technology is still a long way away from working properly, and may never function at the level needed for serious protection. Moreover, in this age of terrorism the threat of an open nuclear assault from a sovereign nation is minimal. This was, I believe, always about the defense contracts because the technology is so dubious.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=mheisig;464705]The issues gets brought up on a regular basis by, usually by Rep. Rangel or someone else. It always gets defeated and isn't considered a viable option by hardly any military experts.

The modern U.S. military isn't what is was back in WW2. The amount of training and time that goes into a U.S. soldier is astronomical. They don't just grab a few guys, show them which end of the gun to point toward the enemy and send them on their way. These guys are operating complex pieces of technology on a daily basis and require an incredible amount of training.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but reinstating the draft is VERY unlikely. It's usually brought up as a way to strike some fear into people so we don't get into a war or extend ourselves. Kind of along the lines of, "Oh, you want to go to war huh? How about we reinstate...the DRAFT!" And Rangel jumps out of a closet waving his arms...[/quote]

First off, I am a U.S. Army veteran of nine years. Secondly, my last place of duty was as an intructor for Officer Basic Course... now known as Basic Officer Leaders Course. I am fully aware of the type of training that goes into turning a civilian into a soldier.

These topics (reinstituting the draft) were brought up while I was still in the military. While I felt that the force as a whole was overwhelmed, I never concured with reinstituting the draft. I was a Staff Sergeant in charge of volunteers, I never would want to see what a non volunteer Army looks like. Unfortunately in Vietnam that is what they had to deal with.

Bottom line: I was not defending the idea of the draft. I was just pointing out that it has been taken into consideration during this generation.

Good Day Sir!

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;464734][B]Sabre rattling at it's best.[/B] What else is Russia supposed to say? "No big deal. We like having neighboring countries with missile launching and intercepting capabilities." [/quote]

You mean sorta like the Cuban Missile Crisis? This is really serious...I wouldn't expect us to appreciate having "defensive" missiles in our back yard seeing how defense can turn into offense real quick...pick 6, Touchdown!

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=saden1;464759]You mean sorta like the Cuban Missile Crisis? This is really serious...I wouldn't expect us to appreciate having "defensive" missiles in our back yard seeing how defense can turn into offense real quick...pick 6, Touchdown![/quote]

From dictionary.com:
[I]sa·ber-rat·tling [IMG]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/IMG]Pronunciation Key - [[B]sey[/B]-ber-rat-ling] [/I]
[I][/I][I]–noun [/I]
[SIZE=2][I]a show or threat of military power, esp. as used by a nation to impose its policies on other countries[/I].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Yeah, sorta like the Cuban Missile Crisis, which also was sabre-rattling at its best. I think after reading your post and re-reading mine that we are in agreement. [/SIZE]

Re: russia/ georgia
 

"Cease Fire, Cease Fire!" 2.0

-I am Mikhail Saakashvili and approve this message.

[yt]49wOzZdWWYM[/yt]

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=saden1;464729]If I was Poland I would return those missiles and try to make peace with the Russians...god knows no one in this country or Europe cares about you.[/quote]
I guess some of here in the U.S. care about Poland....

[URL="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,407262,00.html"]FOXNews.com - Russia Threatens Military Response if U.S., Poland Follow Through With Missile Defense Deal - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News[/URL]

Such comments "border on the bizarre, frankly," Rice told reporters in Warsaw. "The Russians are losing their credibility," she said, adding that [URL="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,407262,00.html#"]Moscow[/URL] would pay a price for its actions in Georgia, though she did not specify how.
"It's also the case that when you threaten Poland, you perhaps forget that it is not 1988," Rice said. "It's 2008 and the United States has a ... firm treaty guarantee to defend Poland's territory as if it was the territory of the United States. So it's probably not wise to throw these threats around."

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;465847]I guess some of here in the U.S. care about Poland....

[URL="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,407262,00.html"]FOXNews.com - Russia Threatens Military Response if U.S., Poland Follow Through With Missile Defense Deal - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News[/URL]

Such comments "border on the bizarre, frankly," Rice told reporters in Warsaw. "The Russians are losing their credibility," she said, adding that [URL="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,407262,00.html#"]Moscow[/URL] would pay a price for its actions in Georgia, though she did not specify how.
"It's also the case that when you threaten Poland, you perhaps forget that it is not 1988," Rice said. "It's 2008 and the United States has a ... firm treaty guarantee to defend Poland's territory as if it was the territory of the United States. So it's probably not wise to throw these threats around."[/quote]

I saw that earlier today and I couldn't help but chuckle. If Russia attacks Poland we're going to defend Poland? How? Sanctions? Militarily? With what? :doh:

This administration's retardation level never ceases to amaze. Remember kids, "In the 21'st century nations don't attack other nations." God bless America and no one else!

Re: russia/ georgia
 

I can't believe Russia threatened nuclear force against Poland for accepting this deal. That just pisses me off.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[QUOTE=saden1;465873]I saw that earlier today and I couldn't help but chuckle. If Russia attacks Poland we're going to defend Poland? How? Sanctions? Militarily? With what? :doh:

This administration's retardation level never ceases to amaze. Remember kids, "In the 21'st century nations don't attack other nations." God bless America and no one else![/QUOTE]

In 1999, President Clinton successfully lobbied for Poland's entry into NATO. So, we've been obligated to defend Polish soil as though it is our own [B]for the last decade[/B].

Also, Russia's military isn't what it was back in the late 1980s. Their naval and air forces are quite simply no match for ours. In any case, do you really think they would launch military attacks on Poland (where the U.S. maintains some forces)?

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=saden1;465873]I saw that earlier today and I couldn't help but chuckle. If Russia attacks Poland we're going to defend Poland? How? Sanctions? Militarily? With what? :doh:

This administration's retardation level never ceases to amaze. Remember kids, "In the 21'st century nations don't attack other nations." God bless America and no one else![/quote]

First off, Russia is not going to invade Poland over this. But if they did...

Your lack of understanding of the United States military is astounding. We would easily overwhelm the Russians in defense of Poland if necessary, in concert with other NATO forces. Our air and naval capabilities are far superior. We can strike faster from more places through the air than anybody else in the world, by far.

Keep in mind, if Russia invaded Poland we wouldn't just send a ground troop force into Poland. We would send air strikes into the heart of Russia and take out strategic targets: communication systems, power plants, military bases, etcetera. We would cripple their home defenses and cut off any invading force within Poland. This would not be difficult for our Air Force.

Our ground forces are stretched a bit thin these days, but keep in mind we have about 1 million active service men and women. We have active ground forces located at bases in Germany and throughout other parts of Europe. In conjunction with NATO forces and our air attacks, we would be able to successfully defend Poland... and Russia knows it.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;465918]In 1999, President Clinton successfully lobbied for Poland's entry into NATO. So, we've been obligated to defend Polish soil as though it is our own [B]for the last decade[/B].

Also, Russia's military isn't what it was back in the late 1980s. Their naval and air forces are quite simply no match for ours. In any case, do you really think they would launch military attacks on Poland (where the U.S. maintains some forces)?[/quote]


Their military isn't what it use to be and ours is so overstretched it's practically useless. What they do have is nukes, and as we know you don't attack countries with nukes, you negotiate with them. I do believe Russia would attack Poland because I seriously would if I were them. There's no way in hell I would let a neighboring country put "defensive" missiles in my backyard. It's a legitimate concern on their part just as it would be if we were in their shoes.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=Schneed10;465948]First off, Russia is not going to invade Poland over this. But if they did...

Your lack of understanding of the United States military is astounding. We would easily overwhelm the Russians in defense of Poland if necessary, in concert with other NATO forces. Our air and naval capabilities are far superior. We can strike faster from more places through the air than anybody else in the world, by far.

Keep in mind, if Russia invaded Poland we wouldn't just send a ground troop force into Poland. We would send air strikes into the heart of Russia and take out strategic targets: communication systems, power plants, military bases, etcetera. We would cripple their home defenses and cut off any invading force within Poland. This would not be difficult for our Air Force.

Our ground forces are stretched a bit thin these days, but keep in mind we have about 1 million active service men and women. We have active ground forces located at bases in Germany and throughout other parts of Europe. In conjunction with NATO forces and our air attacks, we would be able to successfully defend Poland... and Russia knows it.[/quote]


Invade Poland no, disrupt and dismantle their bases, yes. Wow, you
a) seriously overestimate the value of Poland, b) drastically underestimate Russia, c) overestimate US military capabilities while it's bogged down in two wars.

I suggest you don't talk of going to war with Russia as if it's a trivial matter. You are talking about a nation with enough nuclear power to destroy the whole planet.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[QUOTE=saden1;465951]a) seriously overestimate the value of Poland[/QUOTE]

Not arguing with other things you've said but you have now ignored the fact that we are OBLIGATED to defend Poland. By treaty. Rice wasn't just making that up. Maybe Poland has no intrinsic value to us but it represents a great deal in terms of keeping a organized and peaceful eastern block. Once Russia takes hold of Poland what happens then? Think they just stop? I'd be pretty worried about their next steps. And then the steps after those. This needs to be nipped pretty quick. We're using rhetoric right now because what else do we have?

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=FRPLG;465956]Not arguing with other things you've said but you have now ignored the fact that we are OBLIGATED to defend Poland. By treaty. Rice wasn't just making that up. Maybe Poland has no intrinsic value to us but it represents a great deal in terms of keeping a organized and peaceful eastern block. Once Russia takes hold of Poland what happens then? Think they just stop? I'd be pretty worried about their next steps. And then the steps after those. This needs to be nipped pretty quick. We're using rhetoric right now because what else do we have?[/quote]

The fact that we have a treaty is inconsequential with respect to what Russia might do. If you feel you're justified you won't care will you? I mean that's how the world has operated since the dawn of time....they are ignored or broken.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[QUOTE=saden1;465963]The fact that we have a treaty is inconsequential with respect to what Russia might do. If you feel you're justified you won't care will you? I mean that's how the world has operated since the dawn of time....they are ignored or broken.[/QUOTE]

I am seriously not understanding you here. Are you saying we should just ignore our treaty obligations as we see fit?

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=saden1;465951]Invade Poland no, disrupt and dismantle their bases, yes. Wow, you
a) seriously overestimate the value of Poland, b) drastically underestimate Russia, c) overestimate US military capabilities while it's bogged down in two wars.

I suggest you don't talk of going to war with Russia as if it's a trivial matter. You are talking about a nation with enough nuclear power to destroy the whole planet.[/quote]

A) The "value" of Poland is irrelevant. They are a NATO member and we're obligated to defend them.

B) Russia is strong militarily, but not capable of stopping our stealth bombers from reaching deep into their heartland and taking out strategic targets.

C) If we had to defend Poland, I'm pretty certain we'd pull out of Iraq and redirect the troops to Poland.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

This is a pointless discussion anyway. Russia would not invade Poland for a number of reasons, most notably they don't want to start a nuclear standoff with the United States.

Keep in mind, just as it was in the Cold War, nobody ever launched their nukes because they knew the other side would just end up doing the same... mutually assured destruction.

No country would ever have the incentive to actually launch nukes unless:

1) The enemy's nukes were no longer a threat or
2) The country's back was against the wall and had absolutely no other recourse.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=FRPLG;465966]I am seriously not understanding you here. Are you saying we should just ignore our treaty obligations as we see fit?[/quote]

No, I'm say Russia doesn't give a shit about your treaty with Poland. As they see it, it's a matter of national interest to make sure they are not encircled.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;465956]Not arguing with other things you've said but you have now ignored the fact that we are OBLIGATED to defend Poland. By treaty. Rice wasn't just making that up. Maybe Poland has no intrinsic value to us but it represents a great deal in terms of keeping a organized and peaceful eastern block. Once Russia takes hold of Poland what happens then? Think they just stop? I'd be pretty worried about their next steps. And then the steps after those. This needs to be nipped pretty quick. We're using rhetoric right now because what else do we have?[/QUOTE]

You know, just when you think Bush is done. Just when you think he CAN'T screw up anymore. Just when you think there ACTUALLY is light at the end of the tunnel....................The cold war is back. Geez! How in the heck can you screw up so much in so little time? It baffles me! It really does.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=Schneed10;465973]A) The "value" of Poland is irrelevant. They are a NATO member and we're obligated to defend them.

B) Russia is strong militarily, but not capable of stopping our stealth bombers from reaching deep into their heartland and taking out strategic targets.

C) If we had to defend Poland, I'm pretty certain we'd pull out of Iraq and redirect the troops to Poland.[/quote]

Do you realize what you're saying? Stealth bombers over Russia? Pull out of Iraq? You got to stop with Tom Clancy reading/playing/watching.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=Miller101;465977]You know, just when you think Bush is done. Just when you think he CAN'T screw up anymore. Just when you think there ACTUALLY is light at the end of the tunnel....................The cold war is back. Geez! How in the heck can you screw up so much in so little time? It baffles me! It really does.[/quote]

You're dismissed, we already have a Dmek.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=saden1;465978]Do you realize what you're saying? Stealth bombers over Russia? Pull out of Iraq? You got to stop with Tom Clancy reading/playing/watching.[/quote]

Why is anything that I said at all unrealistic given the most unrealistic scenario (provided by you): that Russia would invade Poland?

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;465979]You're dismissed, we already have a Dmek.[/QUOTE]

That's just sad, isn't it?

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[QUOTE=saden1;465976]No, I'm say Russia doesn't give a shit about your treaty with Poland. As they see it, it's a matter of national interest to make sure they are not encircled.[/QUOTE]

I understand that but I don't get exactly what you think WE should be doing. All I am hearing is "Bush sucks". I guess I am just confused by your message here. How should we be handling this?

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[QUOTE=saden1;465976]No, I'm say Russia doesn't give a shit about your treaty with Poland. As they see it, it's a matter of national interest to make sure they are not encircled.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you Saden. And this is exactly why I think our President should be smart enough to speak English!!! This fucking idiot that we got running things now is known for always making the wrong decisions at the right times!

I mean, if he was smart enough do you actually think he would have invaded a country without a real plan? Or do you think he would have been more accurate AND get this, ON THE SAME PAGE with the Iraqi government about withdrawing American troops? What about catching Bin Laden back in 2001? We did have him cornered there as you might recall. But Bush, in all of his wisdom, decides to let the local people catch him...........those people probably played poker with Bin Laden in his cave from time to time.

And now there is Russia. Whats next Bush? Its your move. Just please don't fuck this thing up!

Re: russia/ georgia
 

Where did I say invade? Never ever have I said invade. I likened this situation to the Cuban Missile Crises from the start. Russia taking out bases in Poland is very realistic scenario, certainly more realistic than us jumping to defend Poland by pulling out of Iraq and bombing Russia with stealth bombers. You're not dealing with some two bit country like Iran here. This is Russia!

Also, they have a draft, we don't. So any action on the part of the US would require the reinstatement of the draft...you're making Dmek point for him BTW.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=FRPLG;465985]I understand that but I don't get exactly what you think WE should be doing. All I am hearing is "Bush sucks". I guess I am just confused by your message here. How should we be handling this?[/quote]

Obviously I advocate diplomacy or as some would label appeasement. We should at least be mindful of our delusion of grandeur and don't pretend we have the upper hand or the will and the means to do anything if Russia attacks Poland.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=saden1;465991]Obviously I advocate diplomacy or as some would label appeasement. We should at least be mindful of our delusion of grandeur and don't pretend we have the upper hand or the will and the means to do anything if Russia attacks Poland.[/quote]
Jimmy Carter advocated diplomacy too. That didn't work out too well.

I don't think we should confront Russia either, let them have Poland...again (Yalta,FDR, Alger Hiss). It's too much of a risk to honor our committment to NATO anyway. Russia's expansion and reclaiming of old Soviet bloc territory isn't our problem. When they work with Chavez to base missles in Venezula, that's no big deal either....it would be Bush's fault anyway because he's such an idiot and has just F'd everything in the world up.

P.S. You are ridiculously underestimating the capabilities of the USAF and overestimating Russia's military. It's one thing to roll into Georgia(the stupid, idiotic, Bush Admin told Georgia not to start this), its entirely another to stop Stealth fighter/bombers from completely destroying your military infrastructure. Putin's no idiot, he'll have his surrogates talk, but he won't cross the "line in the sand" of attacking a NATO country.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

But [Colonel Christopher Langton, Senior Fellow at the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies] said Russia's campaign in Georgia left many questions about its military capability unanswered.

"There is no way they could say from this operation that they are capable of carrying out operations against something as sophisticated as NATO forces," he said. "It wasn't a serious test for them."

[url=http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSLK23804020080820?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0]Georgia war shows Russian army strong but flawed | U.S. | Reuters[/url]

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;466003]But [Colonel Christopher Langton, Senior Fellow at the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies] said Russia's campaign in Georgia left many questions about its military capability unanswered.

"There is no way they could say from this operation that they are capable of carrying out operations against something as sophisticated as NATO forces," he said. "It wasn't a serious test for them."

[URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSLK23804020080820?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0"]Georgia war shows Russian army strong but flawed | U.S. | Reuters[/URL][/quote]Good article.

Re: russia/ georgia
 

[quote=Miller101;465986]I agree with you Saden. And this is exactly why I think our President should be smart enough to speak English!!! This fucking idiot that we got running things now is known for always making the wrong decisions at the right times!

I mean, if he was smart enough do you actually think he would have invaded a country without a real plan? Or do you think he would have been more accurate AND get this, ON THE SAME PAGE with the Iraqi government about withdrawing American troops? What about catching Bin Laden back in 2001? We did have him cornered there as you might recall. But Bush, in all of his wisdom, decides to let the local people catch him...........those people probably played poker with Bin Laden in his cave from time to time.

And now there is Russia. Whats next Bush? Its your move. Just please don't fuck this thing up![/quote]
So I guess your a Bush fan!