Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=djnemo65;469920]11 years? Are you thanking him for his time at Michigan too?[/quote]

Jansen was going into his 11th year here with the Skins...

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=hesscl34;469921]Jansen was going into his 11th year here with the Skins...[/quote]


Jansen was drafted by the Skins in 1999.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;469933]Jansen was drafted by the Skins in 1999.[/quote]

Which would make his 11th year 09.. begining this year... I'm sorry, was I off my 6 months.. my bad.. Whatever.. .. (rolling my eyes)

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=hesscl34;469936]Which would make his 11th year 09.. begining this year... I'm sorry, was I off my 6 months.. my bad.. Whatever.. .. (rolling my eyes)[/quote]


Roll on....maybe this will simplify it for you. JJ is going on his 10th season with the Skins! Pretty simple to understand.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/players/jonjansen/profile?id=JAN692150]Jon Jansen[/url]

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;469939]Roll on....maybe this will simplify it for you. JJ is going on his 10th season with the Skins! Pretty simple to understand.

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/players/jonjansen/profile?id=JAN692150"]Jon Jansen[/URL][/quote]

Um, I'm not looking it up, but I was pretty sure last year was his 10th...

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

Well, it was his 9th season in 2007. Which makes it his 10th season now.

I don't understand what is being contested here. People have looked it up and Jansen is in his 10th year.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

What's the big deal. 10th year 11th year. They shouldn't even count the two full years he spent on IR.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=wilsowilso;469943]What's the big deal. 10th year 11th year. They shouldn't even count the two full years he spent on IR.[/quote]

I agree... I guess I'm just bored.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

It's actually 9. You can't thank someone for a year that hasn't been played yet. And yes, I am bored too.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=12thMan;469841]Bottom line, Jansen had a horrible pre-season. Stevie Wonder could have seen that. I like the fact that coach Zorn has the guts to make the call before we got two or three games into the season, and watch Jansen struggle horribly. He's making this a non-controversy before it get's off the ground. Good call.[/quote]

Agreed. He sucked in pre-season. Fact. Hard to argue that he deserved the job. The benched him now rather than let him get handled and lose us a game. He can be upset, I would too, but in the grand scheme this has been on the horizon for several seasons. Heyer has a shot to be a good tackle and we should find out now if that is the case. I don't see how Heyer can be worse. I love Jansen but this was inevitable.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

Signing him to a big contract last year kind of hurts now.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

He'll be starting again before year end. More than anything else, I think this sends the message to the players that anyone can get demoted at any time.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=FRPLG;469988]Agreed. He sucked in pre-season. Fact. Hard to argue that he deserved the job. The benched him now rather than let him get handled and lose us a game. He can be upset, I would too, but in the grand scheme this has been on the horizon for several seasons. Heyer has a shot to be a good tackle and we should find out now if that is the case. I don't see how Heyer can be worse. I love Jansen but this was inevitable.[/quote]

I think that we aren't just seeing a coach finding out if Heyer can be a good tackle. We are seeing a coach say you have to earn the right to start, and last year doesn't count. Heyer played better in preseason than Jansen. Therefore he is starting. Period.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=ChillWill;469904]I think Jansen's teammates also recognized the demise of his play and made it known by not naming him as one of their captains.[/quote]
i disagree with this. i think you can have anyone be a captain, as long as they have the right leadership skills, and have the respect of their teammates. it shouldn't have anything to due with talent

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=dmek25;470098]i disagree with this.[B] i think you can have anyone be a captain[/B], as long as they have the right leadership skills, and have the respect of their teammates. it shouldn't have anything to due with talent[/quote]

Your Captain is a leader of the team, and happens to be a field general. How can you possibly achieve that if your not even a starter or for that matter be on the field? Which at this time JJ is not.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

Darrell Green was a captain and he wasn't a starter his last three season.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=dmek25;470098]i disagree with this. i think you can have anyone be a captain, as long as they have the right leadership skills, and have the respect of their teammates. it shouldn't have anything to due with talent[/quote]

Well I'm trying to think of anyone in any sport who is a Team Captain but not a leader in some capacity on the field.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=ChillWill;470120]Well I'm trying to think of anyone in any sport who is a Team Captain but not a leader in some capacity on the field.[/quote]

Sorry I posted before reading the previous post about Darrell Green. I think that shows the respect the players had for him.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=wilsowilso;469820] Keeping Tryon was the move of someone who smokes crack.[/quote]

HEY HEY HEY leave the mayor out of this.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;470206]HEY HEY HEY leave the mayor out of this.[/quote]

Although I agree with the wilso post...don't politics belong in the parking lot. This side of the fence is football ONLY!

Leave it to some dirtbag......

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;470206]HEY HEY HEY leave the mayor out of this.[/quote]

Huh? When did we go back to 1990?

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=GoSkins!;469907]What I have not been able to get over is that Jansen seems so oblivious to his drop off in play. It is like he has blinders on when some "no name" DE is pancaking him on the way to a sack. If he would just once say something like "I haven't played at as high of a level yet as I need to, but I'm confident I will get there soon and win back my job. The rust from the injury and missing last year is almost off...", then I'd respect that.

What he does say is:
[LIST][*][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][FONT=Times New Roman,times,serif][SIZE=3]"It really doesn't matter how I grade myself,"[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][*][FONT=Times New Roman,times,serif][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]explanations were "nothing that I felt was reason enough."[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][*]I've felt I've done a good job this preseason. I didn't play very well against the Panthers, but neither did anybody else. Until then, I've had lot people in the organization tell me I was having the best camp I've ever had."[/LIST]Sorry, but the guy just doesn't even see whats going on. He has a delusional self image. Maybe this makes him work harder and get back to being a good RT.[/quote] No highly competitive athlete see's a drop off in their performance . Not Monk , Rice , Marino or D. Green . We have not played a meaningful game yet , nobody knows how well he would play if called upon . He may be going down hill , he might just give us on hell of a run , if called upon .

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

I don't feel very good about this move. Granted, Jansen's skills have eroded considerably since 2003 and he looked dreadful in pass protection this preseason. However, I have even less confidence in Heyer. I would have felt better if Jansen remained our starter for 2008 and was relegated to backup duty in 2009.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;470251]I don't feel very good about this move. Granted, Jansen's skills have eroded considerably since 2003 and he looked dreadful in pass protection this preseason. However,[B] I have even less confidence in Heyer[/B]. I would have felt better if Jansen remained our starter for 2008 and was relegated to backup duty in 2009.[/quote]

Well Heyer certainly outplayed Jansen all this pre-season when available IMO. Including the last game against the Jags. And the game prior Jansen got beat to a pulp by Carolinas DE.

What have you seen that gives you less confidence in Heyer?

And who really knows if the move will last maybe, just maybe (but I'm not to optimistic) this is what Jansen needed to get his butt in the highest gear he has left.

Furthermore, I really don't see a next year in Jansen's future with the Skins.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

I would be pumped about the decision to bench Jansen if Heyer didn't get destroyed in the playoff game in Seattle. Hopefully Heyer's commitment to the offseason training program really improved his lower body strength, which I think was a weakness for him last year, especially in pass protection.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

im stoked for this decision..
I think heyer played pretty well for a rookie last year in pass protection and he can only improve under buges. Ive been a heyer fan since he swept in last preseason for samuels.
My main concern is his run blocking. Can he excel? That was the one area jansen was still pretty decent on.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

DOUGHYYDOUBTER, I dont like that name at all. Why don't you like Reed? Didnt he show you he has REAL good range too? IM sorry, but im SO glad we have Reed, I dont want anyone else playing that position. If sean cant be there, reeds the next best thing for us. Him and Landry wil be very good together

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=GoSkins!;469907]What I have not been able to get over is that Jansen seems so oblivious to his drop off in play. It is like he has blinders on when some "no name" DE is pancaking him on the way to a sack. If he would just once say something like "I haven't played at as high of a level yet as I need to, but I'm confident I will get there soon and win back my job. The rust from the injury and missing last year is almost off...", then I'd respect that.

What he does say is:
[LIST][*][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][FONT=Times New Roman,times,serif][SIZE=3]"It really doesn't matter how I grade myself,"[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][*][FONT=Times New Roman,times,serif][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]explanations were "nothing that I felt was reason enough."[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][*]I've felt I've done a good job this preseason. I didn't play very well against the Panthers, but neither did anybody else. Until then, I've had lot people in the organization tell me I was having the best camp I've ever had."[/LIST]Sorry, but the guy just doesn't even see whats going on. He has a delusional self image. Maybe this makes him work harder and get back to being a good RT.[/quote]

Well, let's not pile on Jansen because he didn't admit that he sucked. Not many players do that. If they do, that means they're starting to question their self-confidence; and when that happens their career is definitely over.

Also, when he said, "It really doesn't matter how I grade myself," all he's saying is that regardless of his own impressions, he realizes the coaches make the decisions. I also heard that he said something like, 'we're the players, they're the coaches'.

So he understands his role, it's not as though he's acting like a jerk or anything.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=Beemnseven;470328]Well, let's not pile on Jansen because he didn't admit that he sucked. Not many players do that. If they do, that means they're starting to question their self-confidence; and when that happens their career is definitely over.

Also, when he said, "It really doesn't matter how I grade myself," all he's saying is that regardless of his own impressions, he realizes the coaches make the decisions. I also heard that he said something like, 'we're the players, they're the coaches'.

So he understands his role, it's not as though he's acting like a jerk or anything.[/quote]

Yep I agree.

No player is going to admit his game is slipping, and I'm sure that in his mind he just doesn't see it. That's the athlete's mentality.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

He should keep his mouth shut and earn his spot back. I would respect that more than hearing about what he feels he deserves. He needs to prove himself on the field. He is a great teamate and a wonderful human being (to quote the late Howard Cossell). But that is not enough to keep your starting job.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;470251]I don't feel very good about this move. Granted, Jansen's skills have eroded considerably since 2003 and he looked dreadful in pass protection this preseason. However, I have even less confidence in Heyer. I would have felt better if Jansen remained our starter for 2008 and was relegated to backup duty in 2009.[/quote]
Well its not like they cut Jansen he will be on the sidelines if Heyer struggles.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=Beemnseven;470328]Well, let's not pile on Jansen because he didn't admit that he sucked. Not many players do that. If they do, that means they're starting to question their self-confidence; and when that happens their career is definitely over.[/quote]

Great point. Should he tell the press, "Jeez, I just can't cut it anyone, I should hang em' up"?

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

Jansen is going to play a role at some point this season guaranteed. He seems to be taking the demotion well and I think he'll use it as motivation to take advantage of his opportunity when it comes. Perhaps at this point in his career a switch to guard might help?

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;470254]What have you seen that gives you less confidence in Heyer?[/quote]

Heyer played admirably for an undrafted rookie free agent. However, he is not a very good run-blocker or a very good pass protector. He is not incredibly strong or incredibly agile. He got his lunch handed to him in several games last year, despite the fact that an extra TE was often lined up next to him to help him block his man. In sum, I see him as a mediocre backup. I pray I am wrong about the guy.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

Its sad to see Jansen's skills deteroiate so badly but he was a liability in pass protection.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;470411]Heyer played admirably for an undrafted rookie free agent. However, he is not a very good run-blocker or a very good pass protector. He is not incredibly strong or incredibly agile. He got his lunch handed to him in several games last year, [B]despite the fact that an extra TE was often lined up next to him to help him block his man[/B]. In sum, I see him as a mediocre backup. I pray I am wrong about the guy.[/quote]

This is a coaching thing I worry about.
I know it was preseason but there are a few points that suggest help may not be there for the OT's this year.

1 Zorn is not calling shotgun when pass rush gets bad
2 Zorn is not calling screens when pass rush gets bad
3 Zorn is calling far too few draws when pass rush gets bad
4 We have ZERO run blocking TE's on the roster this year
5 We only have 1 Blocking Fullback on the roster this year
6 I didn't see additional pass protection adjustments based on pass rush

So...either they wanted to see the linemen one on one to evaluate them and have determined they no longer need additional blocking support OR Coach Zorn has yet to determine that this Oline excells at run blocking and needs additional support in pass blocking.

Buges needs to speak up here or Portis is going to be taking on a lot of blitzes solo and that can't be good for his long term health.

If Heyer doesn't get help this week....Tuck may just squash him.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=skinsnut;470554]If Heyer doesn't get help this week....Tuck may just squash him.[/quote]

Yup. I think the Heyer-Tuck matchup is going to be the most important and interesting ones to watch.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;470411]Heyer played admirably for an undrafted rookie free agent. However, he is not a very good run-blocker or a very good pass protector. He is not incredibly strong or incredibly agile. He got his lunch handed to him in several games last year, despite the fact that an extra TE was often lined up next to him to help him block his man. In sum, I see him as a mediocre backup. I pray I am wrong about the guy.[/quote]

My thoughts exactly too. Heyer stunk in run blocking for the most part last year. His pass blocking was not too much better. I'd feel better w/ Jansen in there...much better. I know Jansen didn't look good this preseason but I've got to believe once the live bullets start flying he'd step it up a little. I too hope I'm wrong about Heyer.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=skinsnut;470554]This is a coaching thing I worry about.
I know it was preseason but there are a few points that suggest help may not be there for the OT's this year.

1 Zorn is not calling shotgun when pass rush gets bad
2 Zorn is not calling screens when pass rush gets bad
3 Zorn is calling far too few draws when pass rush gets bad
4 We have ZERO run blocking TE's on the roster this year
5 We only have 1 Blocking Fullback on the roster this year
6 I didn't see additional pass protection adjustments based on pass rush

So...either they wanted to see the linemen one on one to evaluate them and have determined they no longer need additional blocking support OR Coach Zorn has yet to determine that this Oline excells at run blocking and needs additional support in pass blocking.

Buges needs to speak up here or Portis is going to be taking on a lot of blitzes solo and that can't be good for his long term health.

If Heyer doesn't get help this week....Tuck may just squash him.[/quote]

It's hard to make any solid judgments in regard to play calling based on games where the main focus isn't on winning.

Re: Heyer will Start against Giants
 

[quote=Mattyk72;470589]It's hard to make any solid judgments in regard to play calling based on games where the main focus isn't on winning.[/quote]

I agree...but roster decisions such as 1 FB and no stud blocking TE have me leaning towards this being a legitamate concern.
I think we all need to be watching on how Zorn adjusts during the game to a killer pass rush....not to mention how he play calls, especially with the offense backed up towards their own end zone.

A little bit of "Gibbs Caution" in these areas would help