Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

Anybody see that WR for the Eagles who was a second round draft pick yesterday? He looked like Gale fricking Sayers. We would have only needed to draft one of him.

Mr Snyder needs to understand just one thing. The fans in this town are not going to be hoodwinked into blaming this whole thing on Jim Zorn. This is his and Vinnies doing, so unless he is willing to relinquish ownerswhip of the team, he knows what needs to be done. Vinnie will land on his feet. He can go back to parking cars for the 49ers.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;473929]Ok........ it's like this I hope [B]I DON'T OFFEND ANYBODY WITH THIS POST[/B]

I think JC is unsure and holds the ball longer because he has a slave mentality before you go postal and everything let me explain.

Joe Gibbs played soft and didn't take many chances was a strong believer in the power run game didn't take the handcuffs off JC or the offense as a whole IMO. Now true enough JC has had plenty of coordinators no doubt and that played a vital part in his success. But he was still under Gibbs for three years the safe, conservative play mentality was still there even though the coordinator changed. Now you have a totally different coach, different mentality, more of a killer instinct then Gibbs in Zorn. Taking the cuffs off JC and do away with the conservative play. Zorn wants JC to trust his arm and his receivers well those three years under Gibbs plays a big factor. You can't expect JC within 6 or 7 months to get out of that mindset it takes time and Zorn know that. If you notice he didn't turnover the ball over and he is unsure about things. I rather have a conservative don't want to make a mistake QB then a Rex Grossman reckless throw 3 ints two for tds in one game QB. Time will tell but we have to be patient.[/quote]

It's definitely a valid point that along with a change in offense comes a change in philosophy. It's not an easy thing to adjust to as we're seeing.

It's not as simple as the plays and verbiage changing, it's the entire mindset of what Zorn wants him to do vs. what Gibbs/Saunders wanted him to do.

Good post.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=70Chip;473931]Anybody see that WR for the Eagles who was a second round draft pick yesterday? He looked like Gale fricking Sayers. We would have only needed to draft one of him.

Mr Snyder needs to understand just one thing. The fans in this town are not going to be hoodwinked into blaming this whole thing on Jim Zorn. This is his and Vinnies doing, so unless he is willing to relinquish ownerswhip of the team, he knows what needs to be done. Vinnie will land on his feet. He can go back to parking cars for the 49ers.[/quote]

Maybe our scouting wasn't good enough. I wonder if the team got too caught up with the whole "first round quality" label of our rookie WRs.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;473929]Ok........ it's like this I hope [B]I DON'T OFFEND ANYBODY WITH THIS POST[/B]

I think JC is unsure and holds the ball longer because he has a slave mentality before you go postal and everything let me explain.

Joe Gibbs played soft and didn't take many chances was a strong believer in the power run game didn't take the handcuffs off JC or the offense as a whole IMO. Now true enough JC has had plenty of coordinators no doubt and that played a vital part in his success. But he was still under Gibbs for three years the safe, conservative play mentality was still there even though the coordinator changed. Now you have a totally different coach, different mentality, more of a killer instinct then Gibbs in Zorn. Taking the cuffs off JC and do away with the conservative play. Zorn wants JC to trust his arm and his receivers well those three years under Gibbs plays a big factor. You can't expect JC within 6 or 7 months to get out of that mindset it takes time and Zorn know that. If you notice he didn't turnover the ball over and he is unsure about things. I rather have a conservative don't want to make a mistake QB then a Rex Grossman reckless throw 3 ints two for tds in one game QB. Time will tell but we have to be patient.[/quote]

A slave mentality??? Was this the best choice of words when describing an African American's mentality. Geez.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=mredskins;473955]A slave mentality??? Was this the best choice of words when describing an African American's mentality. Geez.[/quote]

Not at all the best choice of words, an unfortunate beginning to an otherwise solid post.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=mredskins;473955]A slave mentality??? Was this the best choice of words when describing an African American's mentality. Geez.[/quote]

I'm an African Amercian I guess that's why it was so easy to use that analogy. But that is why I warned everybody in all caps and bold letter before reading but I still apologize to all that were still offended.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=mredskins;473955]A slave mentality??? Was this the best choice of words when describing an African American's mentality. Geez.[/quote]

I understood it as him being a slave to offensive systems (Saunders now Zorn) and not being able to think for himself.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

Great post...well thought out / analyzed and helps put some of the offensive woes in perspective.

A couple of thoughts (coming from a critical perspective because I believe we should focus on fixing the broken parts) I had in watching the game:

1) Cooley looked horrible in run blocking. Either he should be removed from that role or the Giants DEs were cheating in their run pursuit and we should have run a reverse or bootleg. (I don't want to make JC into Michael Vick, but he is very athletic and, if given space, could safely be a playmaker).

2) JC looked like he has regressed. I trust Zorn will mold him into a consistent winner, but will need 1 - 2 years. My hope is he become a little more of a "gun-slinger". The sideline pass to Thrash will be completed more often than not...and when going for it on 4th down you cannot throw to your check-down unless he has a ton of room in front of him. He needs to take a few more chances (when the situation dictates).

3) Our secondary misses ST badly. We don't have enough size to compete with bigger receivers. I would like to see us bracket these guys so they can't just run beyond the sticks, turn around and get an uncontested first down.

In all, I think we can win with our D and need the O to execute with fewer mental lapses.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=hesscl34;473971]I understood it as him being a slave to offensive systems (Saunders now Zorn) and not being able to think for himself.[/quote]

No, JC not trusting the Zorn's risk that Zorn's system requires yet but still stuck in Gibbs conservative play. The not being able to think for himself is just more negativity from you.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;473980]No, JC not trusting the Zorn's risk that Zorn's system requires yet but still stuck in Gibbs conservative play. The not being able to think for himself is just more negativity from you.[/quote]


No worries just been living in the DC- B-more area long enough to know using "slave" any context will raise some eye brows around here.

I understand where you coming from now.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;473980]No, JC not trusting the Zorn's risk that Zorn's system requires yet but still stuck in Gibbs conservative play. The not being able to think for himself is just more negativity from you.[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]….thanks for using my post as just another excuse to attack my opinion. I was trying to stand up for you and say you weren't using those words in a negative way against AAs. I'm quite sick of the lack of respect around here... [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=hesscl34;473998][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]….thanks for using my post as just another excuse to attack my opinion. I was trying to stand up for you and say you weren't using those words in a negative way against AAs. I'm quite sick of the lack of respect around here... [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

they knew what I meant

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;474002]they knew what I meant[/quote]

.. of course they did. Whatever.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=hesscl34;474003].. of course they did. Whatever.[/quote]

Did you not see that big bold all caps phrase before my post started. That alone clarified the fact that it wasn't a racist statement. Plus I'm African American. I wasn't trying to disrespect you but "not being able to think for himself" sounded like one of your slick disses on JC.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;474018]Did you not see that big bold all caps phrase before my post started. That alone clarified the fact that it wasn't a racist statement. Plus I'm African American. I wasn't trying to disrespect you but "not being able to think for himself" sounded like one of your slick disses on JC.[/quote]

Yeah, I saw it.. I wasn't the one questioning your statement!... what I read after your post was mdredskin asking why you used the word slave while talking about an African American.... I responded to his post, not yours. I tried to defend you, but why bother..

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

I gotta side with hess on this one. I don't think she meant any harm in what she said, she just had a poor choice of words.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=hesscl34;474029]Yeah, I saw it.. I wasn't the one questioning your statement!... what I read after your post was mdredskin asking why you used the word slave while talking about an African American.... I responded to his post, not yours. I tried to defend you, but why bother..[/quote]

I apologize hesscl34 I misunderstood the post

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=SmootSmack;473849]Are you talking about actual passes, or pass plays? Are you factoring in false starts, sacks, etc. where no pass is actually thrown? Also, did you notice WRs "giving up" on the play as Moss implied he did on one play where it didn't develop as quickly as planned and Moss figured JC must have been sacked?[/quote]The 19 passes were only passes thrown...that number becomes 20 if you include the one sack and 21 if you count the pass to Cooley that was called back by illegal man downfield.

And my choice of the word masterfully probably shows a bias I have to make the best out of the situation, but whether it was intentional or not, it's hard to chew up the clock and score any better than we did in the first half.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=hesscl34;473876][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I often call out JC and Rogers because they suck more often than they don’t suck, and the frustration level is overwhelming with them.[/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]Some starters who suck more often than JC and Carlos Rogers:

Santana Moss
Antwaan Randle El
Mike Sellers
Casey Rabach
Rocky McIntosh
Reed Doughty
Fred Smoot

And there are others that are debatable, but the point is that people don't spend a whole lot of time and effort clammering for the replacement of said players. Part of that because a handful of them (Doughty, McIntosh) are young and might improve (like JC and Rogers), but mostly it's because even the people who think that the fan base overrates those seven players realize that they are in most cases the best option we have at their respective positions, and that as fans of the Redskins, we might as well get behind them and hope for their success.

It's somewhat sad that you don't share this mindset with two young players that are critical to the long term success of the franchise, but I guess it's your opinion that we should cut bait with them now and start rebuilding.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

Fantastic job, GTripp! We got rid of our DVR and I forgot to record the game onto DVD. I think I speak for vast majority of us Warpathers (doesn't that kind of sound like "whoop-assers"?) that you're contributions are definitely among the tops. There's usually a definitive reason behind why plays fail or succeed instead of "that player sucks". You do a masterful job yourself in evaluating the game. Keep it up so I can learn a thing or twenty.

Bringing you back down to earth; you need to work on interjecting some humor into your analysis. And brush your teeth sometime this week.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=GTripp0012;474113]Some starters who suck more often than JC and Carlos Rogers:

Santana Moss
Antwaan Randle El
Mike Sellers
Casey Rabach
Rocky McIntosh
Reed Doughty
Fred Smoot

And there are others that are debatable, but the point is that people don't spend a whole lot of time and effort clammering for the replacement of said players. Part of that because a handful of them (Doughty, McIntosh) are young and might improve (like JC and Rogers), but mostly it's because even the people who think that the fan base overrates those seven players realize that they are in most cases the best option we have at their respective positions, and that as fans of the Redskins, we might as well get behind them and hope for their success.

It's somewhat sad that you don't share this mindset with two young players that are critical to the long term success of the franchise, but I guess it's your opinion that we should cut bait with them now and start rebuilding.[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Sorry you think it's sad. I think it's reality. I don't think Rogers is our "best option" in that position. I'd prefer to have Springs and Smoot out there together, and have Rogers be a back up regularly. But we've needed to upgrade that position with fresh players for a while now. As far as JC goes, I will have hope until game 5. If we continue to lose and he continues to look terrible losing, then he's done in my mind. I'm not ready to cut them loose... but I am ready to call them out. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

It's just funny to hear people bagging on Rogers when Smoot was burned to a crisp against the Giants. Where's the Smoot outrage?

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=Mattyk72;474260]It's just funny to hear people bagging on Rogers when Smoot was burned to a crisp against the Giants. Where's the Smoot outrage?[/quote]

Smoot catches more balls. I think that's why you don't hear people bagging on him.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

So 1 INT makes up for the abuse he took all night? Not for me. Maybe if he caught that other INT in the endzone I would give him a pass. He was probably the biggest liability on defense that night.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=hesscl34;474271]Smoot catches more balls. I think that's why you don't hear people bagging on him.[/quote]

They had the same number of interceptions last year (and Rogers only played half the season). On Thursday, they both blew huge opportunities. Smoot's one interception was like a fair catch.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

I'm not really up on Smoot OR Rogers, but if I had a choice I'd pick Smoot, for now. We'll see how Rogers does.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=Mattyk72;474272]So 1 INT makes up for the abuse he took all night? Not for me. Maybe if he caught that other INT in the endzone I would give him a pass. He was probably the biggest liability on defense that night.[/quote]

I agree. I would take Rogers over Smoot any day.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

GTRIPP, looks like you are continuing this season with the same type of sophisticated metric analysis you really perfected last season. Thanks for all your work; I learned a lot reading this.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

Smoot plays hard thats why he doesnt get burned, people still remmeber his first tenure here when he played hard and hurt all the time. I respect him and carlos. i think carlos gets a pass this week, but his hands MUST improve. Our secondary as a whole when they are healthy is not that bad. Our defense just needs to not be on the field so much. If our offense could put up more points perhaps the pressure would be alleviated a bit and make other offenses more one dimensional

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=GTripp0012;474113]Some starters who suck more often than JC and Carlos Rogers:

Santana Moss
Antwaan Randle El
Mike Sellers
Casey Rabach
Rocky McIntosh
Reed Doughty
Fred Smoot

And there are others that are debatable, but the point is that people don't spend a whole lot of time and effort clammering for the replacement of said players. Part of that because a handful of them (Doughty, McIntosh) are young and might improve (like JC and Rogers), but mostly it's because even the people who think that the fan base overrates those seven players realize that they are in most cases the best option we have at their respective positions, and that as fans of the Redskins, we might as well get behind them and hope for their success.

It's somewhat sad that you don't share this mindset with two young players that are critical to the long term success of the franchise, but I guess it's your opinion that we should cut bait with them now and start rebuilding.[/quote]

I completely agree regarding Mike Sellers. Has this guy ever finished off a block in his life? I know the fans love him because once or twice a year he posterizes some poor DB, but just watch him closely for a whole series and tell me he isn't going through the motions.

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

While we are all bagging on players, lets just cut the whole squad and start over from scratch. Yep, this time we are going to draft nothing but probowlers.

The whole team needs to go because they cannot live up to our expectations! Remember all those Superbowls that the Patriots won with a bunch of no names...wait, or all of those NFC championship games that the Eagles went to with a handfull of nobody's?...hmm. That sentence doens't help my case either.

Maybe you just need a cohesive unit?

Re: Redskins-Giants: Offensive Review
 

[quote=hesscl34;473904][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]What is that supposed to mean?[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][B]I've learned to keep my head low and to turn a blind eye around here... but every now and then I find the courage to look up. Some things never change.....[/B] [/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

I knew this thread is old but that line is hilarous! Do you think you are f---ing John Wayne or something! HAHAHA!