Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=Giantone;480731]Why should you make $20,000 on Sean's death,where did you come up with that number, and how many prints were you going to sell and how much will you make on each print,do you have permission from the Skins ,do you have permission from Sean's family?Did anyone commision this before you did it,did you offer this to Sean's family?

P.S


..........add in $5,000 per print that you wanted Santana Moss to pay and you're looking at making $35,000 + dollars on a man's death ,that you have no rights to.[/quote]


By Rachel Beckman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, September 18, 2008; Page C05

Like many Washington Redskins fans, artist Jason Swain mourned the death of 24-year-old Sean Taylor when the player was shot in November. But instead of buying a "21" jersey or expressing his sorrow on sports blogs, Swain created a six-foot portrait of the fallen athlete.

The painting is a montage of Taylor's football career, from his days at the University of Miami through his 3 1/2 seasons as a Redskins safety. Football fans can view the painting at Champps Americana restaurant in Arlington's Pentagon Row, where it has hung since the Sept. 4 start of the Redskins season.

But the tribute painting has seen kudos and conflict on its way to the tavern wall.

After about 200 hours of work, Swain finished the painting and contributed it to an art exhibition that he had already committed to at Children's National Medical Center. While it hung there in March, a group of players visited the hospital as part of the "Redskins Read" literacy program. It caught the attention of Betti-Jo "BJ" Corriveau, the team's vice president for community and charitable programs, and wide receiver Santana Moss. Corriveau expressed casual interest in buying the original; Moss wanted to order three prints.

This is when the trouble began.

In an e-mail exchange, Swain quoted Corriveau a price of $20,000. She responded by asking him if he would donate the portrait so that it could be displayed at FedEx Field. He said no.
"I thought it was fairly insulting," Swain says. "I wouldn't call the Redskins and say I want season tickets and free hot dogs for the rest of the year. I expect to pay something."

Swain had signed a contract to give 25 percent of the proceeds to the children's hospital. A donation would have meant a loss of $5,000 to the hospital.

The next e-mail that Swain received from Corriveau read:

"I understand that you need to sell your painting and the prints but please know that you need to remove our logo and the NFL logo from all images."

The sale fell through, and Swain hasn't removed any of the logos from the painting. It made its way to the Champps wall after Swain cold-called the restaurant about hanging the artwork for its Redskins kickoff party. "Better other people see it than sitting in the house collecting dust," he says.

Swain, 41, is an Australian immigrant who lives in Kensington and runs a landscaping business. This isn't his first celebrity tribute painting. In 2006, his portrait of "Crocodile Hunter" Steve Irwin hung at the Mansion at Strathmore. He has also painted Bill Clinton, Halle Berry and Diane Sawyer.
Swain is afraid the Redskins will take legal action against him, so he has consulted with an intellectual-property lawyer and taken the painting off the market. At Champps, a small placard lists Swain's phone number but no price.

This squabble has legal precedent, says Georgetown University law professor Rebecca Tushnet. Tiger Woods sued sports artist Rick Rush in 2000 over a painting of Woods winning the Masters. The golfer lost.

"Courts have been confronting these issues, and they are increasingly coming down on the side of the arts," Tushnet says. Although Woods was protecting his image and not a logo, both cases fall under the umbrella of intellectual-property law. "Basically, almost anything can be a trademark," Tushnet says. Think Michael Jordan flying toward the hoop.

The Moss transaction has hit a dead-end. Moss's manager Lily Stefano balked when Swain quoted her $5,000 to produce and ship the three custom four-foot-tall giclee prints (high-resolution reproductions of the original, produced from digital scans) to Moss in Miami. Stefano says she thought Swain's price was "sky-high," and she advised Moss to back off. Swain hasn't had contact with Corriveau or Stefano since April.

Reached by telephone last week, Corriveau didn't recall where she had left her dealings with Swain. "We had some conversations but never anything solid," she said. "It's a beautiful portrait." She didn't think Swain would be offended by her directive to remove the logos from the painting.

As product placements invade our world, so will they sneak onto canvases, Tushnet says: "The idea in general is that we want artists to be able to portray the world as they see it, and we live in a heavily branded world."

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

Giantone, you're making an ass out of yourself. Stop digging.

1. The value of art is highly subjective.
2. You're not the only one with an artist in the family or knowledge of art.
3. Your daughter is full of shit but I wouldn't expect you to take anyone side but hers.


Looking strictly at the video the level of detail is amazing. Do you know how fucking painstaking it is to paint a mesh jersey that detailed?

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

This thread is becoming ridiculous. The personal insults of fellow board members are bad enough, but there's really no need to start insulting Giantone's daughter. Yes, he essentially started it by bringing her into the discussion but as long as she's not here to defend her opinion it's not fair to bash her.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=SmootSmack;480769]This thread is becoming ridiculous. The personal insults of fellow board members are bad enough, but there's really no need to start insulting Giantone's daughter. Yes, he essentially started it by bringing her into the discussion but as long as she's not here to defend her opinion it's not fair to bash her.[/quote]


I don't get it, what's insulting? Or are we expected to show her deference? Giantone is shitting on other peoples work and using his daughter to support his claims and we're suppose to do what? I call b.s. when see b.s. and that's the way it should be and always will be.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=saden1;480776]I don't get it, what's insulting? Or are we expected to show her deference? Giantone is shitting on other peoples work and using his daughter to support his claims and we're suppose to do what? I call b.s. when see b.s. and that's the way it should be and always will be.[/quote]

You called her full of shit, Buster took a backhanded slap at her. Quarterflash and Swainy are knocking her too. As I said, Giantone brought her into it when he said she's an artist and he took her to see the painting-I don't believe, as some are implying, he simply showed her the image on the Web-and she wasn't impressed from the point of view of an artist (to me that's irrelevant to the story actually, this is about the Redskins not budging on protecting their trademark and business but I digress).

So now it seems the thing to do is pile on her because she, through her father, gave her educated opinion on the quality of the piece. A.) As I've said, I don't think the quality of the piece matters that much quite honestly, and B.) I see this escalating to further unnecessary insults of family members of site members here and I'm saying now do not let that happen.

If Giantone wanted to bring his daughter into the conversation he has to be prepared for some pushback. But the response could have stopped at "art is subjective" You could even, if applicable, discuss your own artistic background, or that of someone close to you. Your daughter is full of shit wasn't really needed.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

Art is highly subjective. My father and my sister are painters. I dabble in painting now and then, which is to say I know how to splash paint on a canvas. I should be a little bit more diplomatic to get my message across.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

Theres a lot of details in this case that I will not discuss on this forum but I thought I would shed some general light on what happened. These silly comments I see from Giantone, fortunately I don't put much value into as they are totally uninformed and ignorant opinions. I welcome both sides of the debate but when people start making up stuff that sways public opinion, I have an issue with that. My intentions have been clear from the start, I wanted to paint a tribute to Sean it was never a business descision to do this. I am not out to impress everybody with my art and know that I never will impress everybody, Chief Taylor appreciated this painting and thats who counts the most in my books.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=swainy67;480783]Theres a lot of details in this case that I will not discuss on this forum but I thought I would shed some general light on what happened. These silly comments I see from Giantone, fortunately I don't put much value into as they are totally uninformed and ignorant opinions. I welcome both sides of the debate but when people start making up stuff that sways public opinion, I have an issue with that. My intentions have been clear from the start, I wanted to paint a tribute to Sean it was never a business descision to do this. I am not out to impress everybody with my art and know that I never will impress everybody, Chief Taylor appreciated this painting and thats who counts the most in my books.[/quote]

I don't see how Giantone's posts are uninformed and ignorant though.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

"..........add in $5,000 per print that you wanted Santana Moss to pay and you're looking at making $35,000 + dollars on a man's death ,that you have no rights to."

This here is an uniformed comment, totally bogus and trying to guess how long a painting takes someone is also an uninformed and ignorant statement, some of us uneducated painters just take a bit longer.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=swainy67;480792]"..........add in $5,000 per print that you wanted Santana Moss to pay and you're looking at making $35,000 + dollars on a man's death ,that you have no rights to."

This here is an uniformed comment, totally bogus and trying to guess how long a painting takes someone is also an uninformed and ignorant statement, some of us uneducated painters just take a bit longer.[/quote]

Fair enough. I probably missed it, but if you don't mind my asking what became of the other paintings you did (such as Steve Irwin) and why do you do it?

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

Actually Celebrities are about 10 percent of my work, they just got the most attention. The Steve Irwin painting is at the house of Terri Irwin. I grew up in the same town as Steve Irwin on the Sunshine Coast so that was a personal one. About 3 years ago I got to paint Red Auerbach from the Celtics and got to meet him at his house when we delivered the painting, now he was a character it was great to hear some of his stories.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[url=http://www.jjswain.com]Pet Portraits by Jason Swain[/url]
I meant to post my website, it will show you some other work just so people know I do other stuff as well. If you go to Youtube you can see a bunch of other paintings and a couple of sculptures I did with a chainsaw.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=swainy67;480783]Theres a lot of details in this case that I will not discuss on this forum but I thought I would shed some general light on what happened. These silly comments I see from Giantone, fortunately I don't put much value into as they are totally uninformed and ignorant opinions. I welcome both sides of the debate but when people start making up stuff that sways public opinion, I have an issue with that. My intentions have been clear from the start, I wanted to paint a tribute to Sean it was never a business descision to do this. I am not out to impress everybody with my art and know that I never will impress everybody, Chief Taylor appreciated this painting and thats who counts the most in my books.[/quote]

First let me set something straight ...My daughter ....I asked her for her opinion..."I asked her" ....get it.As for my opinions ...no different then yours.....as we all have them.You say your not out to impress yet you try to make $20 grand ....and then 5000 per print.Hell I can get a # Norman Rockewell print for $1500 and I think he's a bit better than you.
Your painting is nice and if you really meant it as a tribute to Sean great I have no problems with that,it's the value your putting on and what you think the Skins should do,tell me there must be at least 15 more fans out there that are Skins fans and painters...what should the Skins do if everyone paints a picture of Sean....buy all of them?

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=swainy67;480792]"..........add in $5,000 per print that you wanted Santana Moss to pay and you're looking at making $35,000 + dollars on a man's death ,that you have no rights to."

This here is an uniformed comment, totally bogus and trying to guess how long a painting takes someone is also an uninformed and ignorant statement, some of us uneducated painters just take a bit longer.[/quote]


If you use the link I posted you will see were the info came from.



[url=http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0908/554549.html]Painting of Sean Taylor Sparks Controversy|ABC 7 News[/url]

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

Obviously Giantone, you're just never going to get it, you're still make silly statements and are coming off as some sort of disgruntled artsit. I think this is the last response you'll get from me as it seems like you've made your mind up what direction you want to take, so no sense trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Get over it and move on with your life.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=swainy67;480807]Obviously Giantone, you're just never going to get it, you're still make silly statements and are coming off as some sort of disgruntled artsit. I think this is the last response you'll get from me as it seems like you've made your mind up what direction you want to take, so no sense trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Get over it and move on with your life.[/quote]

From the article that you posted "Giantone"

But Jason Swain, who painted it as a tribute, can't sell it. The Kensington artist, who specializes in portraits, planned to sell the painting for $20,000 and donate $5,000 to Children's Hospital. He said the Redskins' management saw it on exhibit and liked it.

Read the article that I posted from the Washington Post. The deal with Santana Moss is a different issue then what is written above. Both the Redskins and Santana Moss approached him, not the other way around.

The main issue here, is that they had "no" problem with the logos until he said they couldn't have it for free.

You have been Perpetrating lies with your post that contain the wrong information, and by doing so you have slandered the artist. The facts are the facts. Read the articles and the post that Jason Swain put up explaining the circumstances surrounding the Portrait. He has been honest and forthcoming in this matter....the same cannot be said about the Redskins.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

I suggest that all you doubting Thomas's go over to you tube,and see for yourselves, type in Jason Swain in the video search. You will find his channel. It is loaded with a lot of his beautiful art, including a video of the Sean Taylor portrait, and some fantastic wood carvings. And more can be found on his website.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=QuarterFlash;480809]I suggest that all you doubting Thomas's go over to you tube,and see for yourselves, type in Jason Swain in the video search. You will find his channel. It is loaded with a lot of his beautiful art, including a video of the Sean Taylor portrait, and some fantastic wood carvings. And more can be found on his website.[/quote]
I'm curious what your association with swainy is? Since joining this site, this is the only thread you've posted in and you seem to be very passionate about this discussion.

It's no big deal. I was just wondering if there was some sort of relationship there.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

Hey Giantone, the Redskins are still selling Sean Taylor jerseys. What do you think about that?

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;480845]Hey Giantone, the Redskins are still selling Sean Taylor jerseys. What do you think about that?[/quote]


From the Redskins Website:

[quote]All profits from the sale of Sean Taylor jerseys and other merchandise at Official Redskins Stores and the Redskins Online Store will be contributed to the fund. Taylor’s No. 21 jerseys, tee-shirts, hats, memorial ribbon car magnets, and rally towels distributed at the Redskins-Bills game are available.[/quote]

So they aren't profiting from the sale of those items one bit.

J-Dawg.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=Lady Brave;480829]I'm curious what your association with swainy is? Since joining this site, this is the only thread you've posted in and you seem to be very passionate about this discussion.

It's no big deal. I was just wondering if there was some sort of relationship there.[/quote]

There definitely is.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=SmootSmack;481101]There definitely is.[/quote]

I find it disheartening, that most people in this day and age would never consider that some one is passionate about something, and speaks out, just because they feel it is the right thing to do, if they have information that can help people understand something better, whether it be a friend, or someone you know of. I considered not answering your question, but silence isn't always golden, it leaves people wondering and thinking you didn't answer because you are hiding something.

Let's say that I am a friend, or family...be honest when answering this.
Would it have you saying; "That explains the passion and persistence of the post"? Most people (and it is the nature of most) to immediately discount the motive as anything other then favoritism. I have nothing to offer up, other then my word that it doesn't matter what my relationship is with someone, I pick my battles very carefully, I only engage when I believe in someone or something, based on what I know, or whole heartily believe to be true.

I have been a longtime admirer of his artwork. Having had the opportunity to see the Sean Taylor portrait, and keeping up with the news, yes I am passionate about this discussion. You will also note that I have directed my post at someone who seems intent, on bashing the painting and the artist…someone who has never seen the portrait except in a poor internet copy, and who has not (and the postings make it obvious) read the newspaper articles in their entirety, and is posting ½ truths and at times lies.

Could it be that I would be posting on other threads after the heat on this one dissipated?

I have only posted a few times. Would it make you or anyone else here more
comfortable if I made this my last post? If so, I will not be back,
allowing more time for other sites I belong to, that are more comfortable
with the fact that I do become passionate when discussing subjects I know
about, when I see someone who doesn’t.

I don't know if I have quenched your curiosity, but since it is no big deal...

P.S I live a long way from Jason Swain, and I can honestly say that I haven't had the pleasure of meeting him in person. I hope to someday though.
Think what you want...no big deal

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=QuarterFlash;481105]I find it disheartening, that most people in this day and age would never consider that some one is passionate about something, and speaks out, just because they feel it is the right thing to do, if they have information that can help people understand something better, whether it be a friend, or someone you know of. I considered not answering your question, but silence isn't always golden, it leaves people wondering and thinking you didn't answer because you are hiding something.

Let's say that I am a friend, or family...be honest when answering this.
Would it have you saying; "That explains the passion and persistence of the post"? Most people (and it is the nature of most) to immediately discount the motive as anything other then favoritism. I have nothing to offer up, other then my word that it doesn't matter what my relationship is with someone, I pick my battles very carefully, I only engage when I believe in someone or something, based on what I know, or whole heartily believe to be true.

I have been a longtime admirer of his artwork. Having had the opportunity to see the Sean Taylor portrait, and keeping up with the news, yes I am passionate about this discussion. You will also note that I have directed my post at someone who seems intent, on bashing the painting and the artist…someone who has never seen the portrait except in a poor internet copy, and who has not (and the postings make it obvious) read the newspaper articles in their entirety, and is posting ½ truths and at times lies.

Could it be that I would be posting on other threads after the heat on this one dissipated?

I have only posted a few times. Would it make you or anyone else here more
comfortable if I made this my last post? If so, I will not be back,
allowing more time for other sites I belong to, that are more comfortable
with the fact that I do become passionate when discussing subjects I know
about, when I see someone who doesn’t.

I don't know if I have quenched your curiosity, but since it is no big deal...

P.S I live a long way from Jason Swain, and I can honestly say that I haven't had the pleasure of meeting him in person. I hope to someday though.
Think what you want...no big deal[/quote]

I think you quoted the wrong person, but FYI...only one user name is allowed per person (and I know swainy isn't your other one)

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=SmootSmack;481101]There definitely is.[/quote]

Yeah, like a stalker.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

Gee Quarter flash , looks like we've started a new thread, this is looking more like "Days of our lives by the minute" . Absolutely scandalous. It's the gift that keeps on giving, I think I'm starting to like these forums.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=QuarterFlash;481105]
I have only posted a few times. Would it make you or anyone else here more comfortable if I made this my last post? If so, I will not be back...[/quote]

I've followed this thread carefully, and have seen some very personal insults.

I've re-read every post by Quarterflash, and have come to the following conclusion.
[INDENT][B]Yes. [/B]

[B]It would make me more comfortable if this were your last post.[/B]
[/INDENT]You asked,

I replied.

J-Dawg.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=swainy67;481112]Gee Quarter flash , looks like we've started a new thread, this is looking more like "Days of our lives by the minute" . Absolutely scandalous. It's the gift that keeps on giving, I think I'm starting to like these forums.[/quote]

Well it is getting to be a bit like a soap..I was thinking more like "As the Stomach Churns" I believe that someone called me a stalker...?,I have been asked not return by someone that I haven't insulted personally...?

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=jgalecpa;481113]I've followed this thread carefully, and have seen some very personal insults.

I've re-read every post by Quarterflash, and have come to the following conclusion.
[INDENT][B]Yes. [/B]

[B]It would make me more comfortable if this were your last post.[/B]
[/INDENT]You asked,

I replied.

J-Dawg.[/quote]

Of course it would, I don't agree with you

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=QuarterFlash;481105]I find it disheartening, that most people in this day and age would never consider that some one is passionate about something, and speaks out, just because they feel it is the right thing to do, if they have information that can help people understand something better, whether it be a friend, or someone you know of. I considered not answering your question, but silence isn't always golden, it leaves people wondering and thinking you didn't answer because you are hiding something.

Let's say that I am a friend, or family...be honest when answering this.
Would it have you saying; "That explains the passion and persistence of the post"? Most people (and it is the nature of most) to immediately discount the motive as anything other then favoritism. I have nothing to offer up, other then my word that it doesn't matter what my relationship is with someone, I pick my battles very carefully, I only engage when I believe in someone or something, based on what I know, or whole heartily believe to be true.

I have been a longtime admirer of his artwork. Having had the opportunity to see the Sean Taylor portrait, and keeping up with the news, yes I am passionate about this discussion. You will also note that I have directed my post at someone who seems intent, on bashing the painting and the artist…someone who has never seen the portrait except in a poor internet copy, and who has not (and the postings make it obvious) read the newspaper articles in their entirety, and is posting ½ truths and at times lies.

Could it be that I would be posting on other threads after the heat on this one dissipated?

I have only posted a few times. Would it make you or anyone else here more
comfortable if I made this my last post? If so, I will not be back,
allowing more time for other sites I belong to, that are more comfortable
with the fact that I do become passionate when discussing subjects I know
about, when I see someone who doesn’t.

I don't know if I have quenched your curiosity, but since it is no big deal...

P.S I live a long way from Jason Swain, and I can honestly say that I haven't had the pleasure of meeting him in person. I hope to someday though.
Think what you want...no big deal[/quote]
I asked a simple question and I certainly didn't attack you or your motives.

I got my answer. That's good enough for me. Good luck with the whole indignant attitude thing.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=Giantone;480800]what should the Skins do if everyone paints a picture of Sean....buy all of them?[/quote]

That's essentially the crux of the whole issue. And if they let everyone just use their marks and logos and sell them off well then that's what their lawsuit for the last 15 years has been about-trademark dilution.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=Lady Brave;481145]I asked a simple question and I certainly didn't attack you or your motives.

I got my answer. That's good enough for me. Good luck with the whole indignant attitude thing.[/quote]

I never felt you attacked me..sometimes simple questions require a long answer. I don't feel that my response projected an indignant attitude, it was an honest one. But it is all a matter of the listeners perspective. Hey at least you didn't call me a stalker, and you have been polite.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

The Skins have not been asked to buy anything in this case, I was the one who was approached and as far as logos being included in artwork, there are laws out there protecting artists that paint portraits like this that come under the VARA or Visual artists rights act. I would need a whole new thread to explain some of this stuff but it's out there, but as long as we have our own legal analysts willing to put their two cents worth in I'll just sit on the fence and observe.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=swainy67;481169]The Skins have not been asked to buy anything in this case, I was the one who was approached and as far as logos being included in artwork, there are laws out there protecting artists that paint portraits like this that come under the VARA or Visual artists rights act. I would need a whole new thread to explain some of this stuff but it's out there, but as long as we have our own legal analysts willing to put their two cents worth in I'll just sit on the fence and observe.[/quote]

Dead on...
But considering that most people choose to see in black and white, and remain color blind, not to mention know it all's, you could post all the information, proof and backup in the universe, and they would still say they are right. But you never know, someone may take a trip out of there self imposed box and look it up.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

I'm hearing crickets again

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

[quote=swainy67;481171]I'm hearing crickets again[/quote]Are you a football fan? Who is your team?

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

Oh, BTW. I'm not a mod but this thread in no way belongs in the Locker Room. Its Dallas week dammit!

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

Actually I do follow the Skins, being from Australia, I played a lot of Rugby and it took me a while to figure out the rules of NFL but once I got to know all the different plays and tactics I found it pretty good to watch. I remember back in the late eighties when they telecast the Superbowl and it happened to be the Redskins with Doug Williams, I didn't know a whole lot about what was going on but it looked pretty exciting. If you mention NFL teams in Australia, anyone who knows a bit about it know about only 3 teams, The Redskins, Dallas and the 49ers'. Rugby and NFL have the same sort of principal but in NFL you can throw the ball forward.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

It's funny because even people in Australia aren't big fans of Dallas as they seem a little bit egotistical and thats something that doesn't sit well with footy fans over there, you never see too much showboating.

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

Does American football have a big fan base over there?

Re: Sean Taylor Tribute Painting
 

Not really cause theres already 3 main codes of football over there and Aussies are pretty passionate about them just like the NFL fans here, mostly transplants or people who have picked up on the game.