Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

I'd argue cutting Torrence while retaining Tryon and grabbing Alexander, trading a 2nd and a 6th for an aging Jason Taylor, wasting a #2 on a TE but justifying it with supposed 2 TE passing sets that we have yet to see, plus 2 WR, one of which had known injury issues, and another that was a one year wonder, lack of drafting Dline and gambling on a HC without calling a single play has shown some poor judgement..

Now hows that for a run on sentance?

Where is the High Character ONLY attitude that this team had under Gibbs?
We've signed a wuss for a backup RB and an arrogant underperformer who defends puppy killers and wants to fight old teammates in just a few weeks.
I'd say that the DANNY is back since he doesn't have a Coach with enough clout to give his controversial moves the smackdown. I sure hope these castoffs we've picked up don't screw up our locker room.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

For the record,
I think Malcolm Kelly will be the best of our draft, eventually.
He will be our much needed possesion receiver.
Obviously, the Coach thinks that too, otherwise, they would have IR'ed him to keep Torrence on the squad.

I wonder who is due to be cut to retain Alexander beyond Bett's injury....or don't we have to?

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=skinsnut;498999]For the record,
I think Malcolm Kelly will be the best of our draft, eventually.
He will be our much needed possesion receiver.
Obviously, the Coach thinks that too, otherwise, they would have IR'ed him to keep Torrence on the squad.

I wonder who is due to be cut to retain Alexander beyond Bett's injury....or don't we have to?[/quote]Yeah, whereas Zorn is clearly pissed off with Devin Thomas' rookie effort, he does seem to be going beyond the call of duty to make Malcolm Kelly a part of the offense in the second half. And those two aren't mutually exclusive either. If Devin had shown any promise or NFL skill whatsoever, Kelly is probably already on IR.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=DIRTEE;498997]Definitely not a fan of dropping Torrence. With the condition of the defense, i guess it had to be him. He also had poor showings against Detroit and St Louis. If Malcolm goes on the IR,[B] we might pick him back up.[/B] [/quote]

I doubt he would be available. NE, BAL, NY, and even Dallas will probably take a look at him.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=skinsnut;498999]For the record,
[B]I think Malcolm Kelly will be the best of our draft, eventually.[/B]
He will be our much needed possesion receiver.
Obviously, the Coach thinks that too, otherwise, they would have IR'ed him to keep Torrence on the squad.

I wonder who is due to be cut to retain Alexander beyond Bett's injury....or don't we have to?[/quote]

I totally agree with that. If he can get, and stay healthy, he could do wonders for this offense. I think he is the missing piece that would really make this thing go and take the offense to another level. I am expecting Davis to get more involved. There was talk after the draft about playing him and Cooley at the same time, and word is he is almost impossible to cover in practice. But a healthy Kelly would make a huge difference in my opinion.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

Hey,
I've got a question.
I have been looking around on the web about the Torrence cut, and I know he plays a lot of special teams.
I know he's the gunner on punts and has missed a bunch of punts downed at the 5 or so (settling for touchbacks)...I know that is a negative....but.....
One thing that made me really pissed off about the Steelers game was the punt RECEIVING team....particularly the Gunner DEFENSE.
We have 2 defenders on each gunner and we got smoked almost EVERY time.
Randel El couldn't do anything but do fair catches due to this Crappy Gunner blocking. The Steelers Gunner was in Randel Els face for every return. He wasn't even touched on multiple occasions.
It is my understanding that TORRENCE is the punt Gunner blocker....IS THAT TRUE?

If so, I understand why he was cut.
I know he has sucked as our punt gunner, he's been solid as a # 4 CB.
If he has sucked as a punt gunner blocker...I totally understand.
Our punt coverage and return units are a weakness of the team and must be improved.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

4 pages on Torrence? you guys have a short memory. wasnt it Torrence that got burned to put the rams in position for the game winning kick? Hall is a major upgrade over just about any of the corners we have, except for Rogers, and Springs.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

Yes it was Torrence, he gets turned around on recievers alot. Happened to him last year as well.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=dmek25;499012]4 pages on Torrence? you guys have a short memory. wasnt it Torrence that got burned to put the rams in position for the game winning kick? Hall is a major upgrade over just about any of the corners we have, except for Rogers, and Springs.[/quote]

I think the general concern is not that Torrence was a great player or that somehow he was going to turn into an All-Pro or something. Clearly he had trouble in coverage and was a liability when he was on the field. But Hall will be a liability in coverage too. Plus he likes to talk, is a self-promoter, and probably is not going to sacrifice his body on kick coverages for the good of the team as a guy like Torrence would.

The concern is that you get rid of a well liked guy who worked hard and played on special teams and potentially disrupt a solid locker room in the midst of a good season. You do so in order to bring in a player who thinks he is a great player, but whose play on the field suggests is only an average player. Hopefully he will be a team guy and play the good soldier for seven games in hopes of getting a big payday, but his coverage skills are suspect. He has continually gotten beaten in coverage throughout his career and has an exceptionally high yards per attempt average against him over five seasons. Last week he was beaten repeatedly by first-round bust Michael Jenkins. Hopefully he can return punts and provide some depth but the statistics (if you take out the Pro Bowls, and you know how name recognition plays in there) suggest he is not a huge upgrade at the position. So the concern is you disrupt a locker room in order to bring in an over-hyped average player who thinks he is a great player. I did not have a problem bringing in Hall on the cheap, and the fan in me gets excited about a big name guy coming in, but I am concerned about an impact in the locker room.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

I'm not a HUGE fan of this move, but at least now Leigh will have his opportunity to show off his skills on another team (I can't imagine him not being signed quickly, he is a pretty dependable 3rd or 4th string corner).

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;499021]I think the general concern is not that Torrence was a great player or that somehow he was going to turn into an All-Pro or something. Clearly he had trouble in coverage and was a liability when he was on the field. But Hall will be a liability in coverage too. Plus he likes to talk, is a self-promoter, and probably is not going to sacrifice his body on kick coverages for the good of the team as a guy like Torrence would.

The concern is that you get rid of a well liked guy who worked hard and played on special teams and potentially disrupt a solid locker room in the midst of a good season. You do so in order to bring in a player who thinks he is a great player, but whose play on the field suggests is only an average player. Hopefully he will be a team guy and play the good soldier for seven games in hopes of getting a big payday, but his coverage skills are suspect. He has continually gotten beaten in coverage throughout his career and has an exceptionally high yards per attempt average against him over five seasons. Last week he was beaten repeatedly by first-round bust Michael Jenkins. Hopefully he can return punts and provide some depth but the statistics (if you take out the Pro Bowls, and you know how name recognition plays in there) suggest he is not a huge upgrade at the position. So the concern is you disrupt a locker room in order to bring in an over-hyped average player who thinks he is a great player. I did not have a problem bringing in Hall on the cheap, and the fan in me gets excited about a big name guy coming in, but I am concerned about an impact in the locker room.[/quote]

I can see the cause for concern, although I don't share it. I think our locker room is strong enough to get Hall in line if need be, which I don't think there will be. I think locker rooms divide over quarterbacks, not over the 53rd man.

Last week, Michael Jenkins caught 2 passes. And I seem to recall Oakland saying that Randy Moss had "lost it" as well, so I believe absolutely nothing that comes out of Oakland considering Al Davis's picture is in the dictionary next to "agenda." Hall will blossom in DC, he's not a bump and run shut down corner, but he has proven that he is a heckuva corner when he can play off and read the qb, as his 2 Pro Bowls prove. I think Hall's upside WAAAY outweighs any potential negative, especially when you consider the guy grew up in Virginia, probably as a Skins fan, and is coming from NFL purgatory to a team firmly in the playoff mix.

One last tidbit, he already has 48 tackles, 13 pass deflections and 3 picks. I think Hall will lead us in picks, the more I research the guy the more I like this move. I think this will be the best move this front office has made this year.

Leigh, who?

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

'bout time. They also need to take a hard look at Byron Westbrook. Is he going to take it to the next level or is he even servicable other then being a brother of a huge player for a rival team.

Also its nice to be well liked but another to know how to do your job. or rather be able to get the job done. Apparently the coach's saw something we didn't. ....Sound familiar.....those of us Mason whiners. We should use the same excuses for the Torrence whiners....."he was no good." "he barely broke out of the practice squad.", "he let to many people get by him." , "good riddence Torrence." "maybe he can crack some other teams squad." lol. I'm haveing to much fun with this right.

Maybe Dallas will pick him up for the next game and maybe he will finally elevate his play. lol. They are looking for a CB to since they had Pac-Man troubles. lol.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

If Justin Tryon couldn't beat Torrence out in camp as the 4th CB, then why is Tryon still on the team? I don't get this move.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

I think GTRIPP0012 is underestimating Hall. Torrence makes me cringe.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

And by the way..... Why is Westbrook on our team practice squad? Two preseasons in a row he has proven that he is... [B]Gaaaww-Bosh!!!![/B]

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=TaylorMade21;499022]I'm not a HUGE fan of this move, but at least now Leigh will have his opportunity to [B]show off his skills[/B] on another team (I can't imagine him not being signed quickly, he is a pretty dependable 3rd or 4th string corner).[/quote]

Yeah i hope the Cowboys pick him up so he can show his "skills" against us next week.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

I called this earlier but I do feel that of they cut Alexander after Betts is fully healthy they will scoop Torrence back up. Or if they place Kelly on IR they will too.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

I don't mind releasing Torrence. He had his moments and I think maybe could be a decent #2 or #3 CB yet there's something about Torrence I never really liked as a player. As a guy (he had a segment on NBC4 one night about him) he seems like a great person, very motivated and charitable. I wish him well.

I can only wonder why they didn't release Tryon... The staff must really want to see something in the kid.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

I'm really amazed that we spend so much time analyzing the 45th player on our roster.. There recently was someone who left that people on the board said was 'wildly popular in the locker room. It's going to be a problem now that he's gone because guys are really going to dislike it. We don't know what we did and are going to miss him dearly.' That guy-Gregg Williams. How's that working out for us?

Unless you're a JLC sky is always on the verge of falling type, it's hard to find too much fault with what the FO has done. Jim Zorn-check. Greg Blache-check. Draft-1/2 check but none of the draftees (outside of Brooks) was NEEDED to contribute and are a playoff team without any contribution outside of Horton. Taylor-He's been hurt on 2 random-freaky plays so I can't count that against them. Alexander-He's better than Rock but will be gone when Betts is healthy again. Hall-2 time pro bowler vs. a guy 75% of the board wouldn't have cared if he wasn't brought back to camp this year.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=Paintrain;499109]I'm really amazed that we spend so much time analyzing the 45th player on our roster.. There recently was someone who left that people on the board said was 'wildly popular in the locker room. It's going to be a problem now that he's gone because guys are really going to dislike it. We don't know what we did and are going to miss him dearly.' That guy-Gregg Williams. How's that working out for us?

Unless you're a JLC sky is always on the verge of falling type, it's hard to find too much fault with what the FO has done. Jim Zorn-check. Greg Blache-check. Draft-1/2 check but none of the draftees (outside of Brooks) was NEEDED to contribute and are a playoff team without any contribution outside of Horton. Taylor-He's been hurt on 2 random-freaky plays so I can't count that against them. Alexander-He's better than Rock but will be gone when Betts is healthy again. Hall-2 time pro bowler vs. a guy 75% of the board wouldn't have cared if he wasn't brought back to camp this year.[/quote]
Amen. Who gives about Leigh Torrence. We got a two time pro bowler, arguably the best corner we have since Darrell Green. He has [B]3[/B] picks already he's 24, and he can make plays. His attitude won't be a problem because were winning. ie Randy Moss. The FO has grown up alot the past few seasons and I tip my hat to them. In 8 wks the same people who talk about Hall's attidude and being a [B]"cancer"[/B] will be talking about his browl jersey in Hawai next year.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

Gosh darnit....I totally forgot the whole....."He's a pro bowler" statement. Man oh man how could I have forgotten that one.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

Yeah Tryon looked good to me in the preseason. He's was in excellent man coverage against Hardy when we played Buffalo. Hardy is 6'5" and Tryon is 5'9", so he just got outreached on some of those plays, but he was certainly in position.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=Tha Posse;499138]Yeah Tryon looked good to me in the preseason. He's was in excellent man coverage against Hardy when we played Buffalo. Hardy is 6'5" and Tryon is 5'9", so he just got outreached on some of those plays, but he was certainly in position.[/quote]
Man, I am not sure what games you watched, but Tryon was torn apart, in preseason. He was absolutely horrible. I cant believe they let Torrence go. He was a good 4th corner. He is young and has improved every game.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

This is a bad move, and it's starting to tick me off.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

torrence was garbage. i liked the move.

tryon is still a rookie with raw talent. maybe he was just a 6th or 7th rounder that we drafted too early when we picked him up in the 4th round. but he deserves a chance to develop and prove himself. remember, asante samuel was drafted in the 4th round.

with our injuries, the big plays weve given up, and the playoff push heading into week 11, we need good corners to cover dallas's wr's when romo comes back (even if they are in last place in the division) and phillys revamped and overlooked passing attack to keep pace within the division. we also need to force more turnovers, including INT's.

and for the record, if kelly hits IR, were not going to pick up torrence. were going to pick up a WR. theres no way in hell we try and play our last 7 games and possibly the play offs (another potential 4 games) with 4 WRs. what do we do if one is hurt? just go with 3? i dont think so. i only see torrence getting picked up if a CB goes down, or we release a DE, or (drumroll please) kareem moore. think about it. with landry and horton being the starters and playing well, as well as mike green (he played really well in place of horton a few weeks ago), and the always possibility of SS playing some safety if there is an injury, i would have probably looked at rob jackson, then kareem moore.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;498920]My initial reaction is that it is problematic to bring in a guy with a history of disruptive locker room behavior and get rid of a well likde guy who is a hard worker and special teams contributor. I cringed whenever Torrence was in coverage but it seems like there were some other guys who could have cleared waivers and gotten on to the practice team at least (was someone really going to claim Rob Jackson or Justin Tryon?). I've never been in an NFL locker room so I don't know how much 'chemistry' is overrated, but it seems like a move such as this one could disrupt a tight locker room, at least in the short term. I do not have a problem with bringing in Hall on the cheap, I just wonder if cutting a well liked guy like Torrence in order to do so might have any ripple effects. I guess you can say they are professionals, but that has to damage morale to some degree.[/quote]

I heard that his locker room presence was fine, all his trouble was on the field.. but neither one of us were there, so who knows.

Surprising that they couldn't find someone else to cut, Torrence wasn't great, but he's still young and was doing okay, he's a number 4 or 5.. and not too many people have a number 4 or 5 like him.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=GTripp0012;498943]I'm certainly not crazy about this move, and from a purely on the field standpoint, the only thing this move does is shave two years off our CB situation. [B]Hall is certainly no better (but likely not any worse) than Torrence at this point in their careers[/B]. So, yeah, Hall makes sense from a standpoint of needing to get deeper in the secondary, but this move just nullifies that.

And can we stop hating on Tryon for no reason now? The guy is under contract through 2010 and he's played about 5 downs in the NFL, and didn't blow a single coverage. So what's the deal?[/quote]

Interesting opinion.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;498952]Two takes on the Torrence release, Redskin Insider:

[URL="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/"]Redskins Insider[/URL][/quote]

[quote]
This scout said his team did not like Torrence coming out of the draft, but obviously the Skins did, so you give him a shot on special teams and in the defense if need be, and then evaluate down the road.[/quote]

lol, skins didn't draft torrence.. or did he flub and mean tryon?

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=vallin21;499118]Amen. Who gives about Leigh Torrence. We got a two time pro bowler, arguably the best corner we have since Darrell Green. He has [B]3[/B] picks already he's 24, and he can make plays. His attitude won't be a problem because were winning. ie Randy Moss. The FO has grown up alot the past few seasons and I tip my hat to them. In 8 wks the same people who talk about Hall's attidude and being a [B]"cancer"[/B] will be talking about his browl jersey in Hawai next year.[/quote]

i dont kow if he'll be in the pro bowl or a cancer this year, but i think it was a good move. Torrence was a year older, and more unproductive, they must have figured he had reached the peak or that he couldnt ascend to a level of raw talent that hall possesses. Im curious..if hall plays like a badass the rest of the sesason...does this bode well for the oft injured, and overpayed shawn springs?

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=SouperMeister;499042]If Justin Tryon couldn't beat Torrence out in camp as the 4th CB, then why is Tryon still on the team? I don't get this move.[/quote]

There's a real good reason, VC drafted Tryon. He'd rather not cut one of his picks. Kinda like our drafted punter, Brooks, and that turned out ok...oh i forgot Brooks sucked and we had to cut him.

It does seem kinda weird doesn't it? Torrence was a better player than Tryon.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

5 pages on the release of a 4th CB? Wow.

How about we wait and see how this plays out on the field?

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=Mattyk72;499191]5 pages on the release of a 4th CB? Wow.

How about we wait and see how this plays out on the field?[/quote]
Well the Redskins are the number four defense in the NFL. Torrence is our fourth corner, but he has played nickel all year long. Making him our third corner. I think he has done a great job. Yeah, he got beat in the Rams game, but he was right there. Everyone gets beat sometimes. Agian number four defense in the league, with him playing nickel.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

It looks like we're going back to the old ways of Vinny and Dan pre Joe. It's very discouraging too. Hall has played like shit this year. Plus he acts like a 4 year old. Plus he's selfish. Hall reminds me of Brandon Lloyd. I'm not sure what they see in Tryon cause he was so bad in pre season it wasn't even funny. He's the one that should've went. Torrence got a raw deal.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=Mattyk72;499191]5 pages on the release of a 4th CB? Wow.

How about we wait and see how this plays out on the field?[/quote]

Not too much to talk about on a bye week. Thank god it's Dallas week.

Hall is very talented and although i didn't really care for the pickup, he could do some good things. It is what it is...he's a 4th CB.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=wolfeskins;498936]i gotta agree with you. the plan is prolly for hall and rogers to be the starting cbs next season with smoot being the #3 cb. springs will be let go.

of course this is dependant on hall playing at a high level.[/quote]

yes i think hall was a fantastic move chemistry will come the first time dante makes a pick these guys want to win PERIOD.springs has the injury bug and is old.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

i would have cut tyron but the coaches know more than me . but i would like to know what the hell were they thinking. tyron sucks

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

whan i first saw that al (i have alzhiemers)davis cut hall i was thinking man could we us this guy!!best move ever imoao.he could have gone to dallas to replace pacman they are in worse shape at corner than we are!!

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=skinsfan69;499209]It looks like we're going back to the old ways of Vinny and Dan pre Joe. It's very discouraging too. Hall has played like shit this year. Plus he acts like a 4 year old. Plus he's selfish. Hall reminds me of Brandon Lloyd. I'm not sure what they see in Tryon cause he was so bad in pre season it wasn't even funny. He's the one that should've went. Torrence got a raw deal.[/quote]

Not quite... the old Danny would have signed Hall to a mega deal. This move is relatively low risk, potentially high reward. I'm not a big fan of Hall either but I'm willing to see if he can prove me wrong.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

I'd rather they cut Springs instead of Torrence. Torrence might not be very good in coverage, but at least he plays more than 2 games a year.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=Coff;499245]I'd rather they cut Springs instead of Torrence. Torrence might not be very good in coverage, but at least he plays more than 2 games a year.[/quote]


LOL, you can't be serious. Cut Springs instead of Torrence?