Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Right. They stepped up WHEN CALLED UPON. Davis is never called upon and Thomas rarely so. That's my point. Our pass protection really sucks. No doubt about it. The reason Moss or Cooley don't have 0 receptions is because they WERE called upon. Even with this dreadful line. It's my opinion that if we don't find a way, to get them involved, it is going to be very hard to be successful.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=The Goat;501956]Good post. Sort of curious what would happen if Zorn specifically called out Thomas or Davis to rise to the occasion at this point.[/quote]

Good point Goat. I wish he would.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Here's the NFL analysis on Thomas. This sounds way to much like we wrote the analysis. lol. .....

[B]Negatives: Has very good timed speed and is quick into his routes, but needs to do a better job of uncovering and tracking the ball on deep routes (struggles at times to snatch the ball over his outside shoulder)..[/B]

[B]...Still learning how to set up defenders and needs to do a better job of sitting down in coverage...Has large hands and good arm reach to extend for the ball, but when he doesn't attack the ball or tries to body catch, most of his drops occur..[/B]

[B]Effective cut blocker, but does not play up to his size and strength when blocking in-line (needs to sustain and finish better)..[/B]

[B]Might struggle trying to digest a complicated playbook (just adequate with the mental aspect of the game). And needs to do a better job of reading coverages (will run into spots, at times). [/B]

[B]With his impressive physique, he could be an inviting target over the middle, as he will not hesitate to mix it up with a defender. However, with his burst and running stride, he can also challenge the deep secondary. He will still need time to develop better pattern running skills, but he has enough in his package to contribute as a rookie.
[/B]

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

How about Kelly's analysis.....

[B]Negatives: Lacks the short steps and quick feet, but does get good depth in his route progression with his long stride...Perhaps a product of the team's reliance on its ground game, he will disappear for long stretches[/B]

[B]...A good blocker, he is basically a non-factor without the ball in his hands...Will usually run crisp routes but he will glide out of his breaks, [/B]

[B]...Keeps his head on a swivel to locate the ball, but is more effective as a receiver in the open field, as he does not show the same burst as smaller receivers when catching in the short area[/B]

[B]...Not really an explosive player, but does use his body lean and initial contact strike to create separation.
[/B]

Those were just the negatives of both. They had a lot of positives. We are just not seeing them for whatever reason.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Funny Royal sounds so much like Thomas....

[B]...Despite his upper-body strength, he struggles to avoid getting a clean release vs. press coverage, which causes him to get redirected in his routes too often for a player with his power[/B]

[B]...An inconsistent route-runner who will drift on deep routes and takes soft-angle cuts when going long distances...Is more effective on controlled and short-area routes, but needs to be more consistent when attempting to plant and drive to gain separation[/B]

[B]...Tough player, but will have some concentration lapses, along with a penchant for trapping the ball, leading to a share of dropped balls.[/B]

[B]but will get frustrated when he can't escape the jam to get into his route (lets that affect him for several plays, getting take out of his game).
[/B]

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

how about Jackson....negatives only...

[B]...Has very good speed, but is still a bit raw running routes and must improve his transition a bit..[/B]

The rest of his faults are in regards to his size and bulk and how he gets pushed at the line of scrimmage and how he may shy away from the ball when he hears foot steps.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

You certainly hate to hear of trust issues. It sounds like hes a very slow learner.

I was shocked that we even IMO wasted a draft pick on a TE. With already having an elite TE in Cooley and a solid #2 in Yoder. I guess we will have to take a wait and see approach, not much choice at the moment.

At the moment all three second round picks in this years class are suspect, I would have been happy with one of the three stepping up and making some contributions to the team this season.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;501974]You certainly hate to hear of trust issues. It sounds like hes a very slow learner.

I was shocked that we even IMO wasted a draft pick on a TE. With already having an elite TE in Cooley and a solid #2 in Yoder. I guess we will have to take a wait and see approach, not much choice at the moment.

At the moment all three second round picks in this years class are suspect, I would have been happy with one of the three stepping up and making some contributions to the team this season.[/quote]Well, Yoder shouldn't be on an NFL team, so there's that. I suppose we could do worse than Yoder at No. 2, but it's easy to do better.

Davis is never going to pass Cooley on the depth chart, but it would be nice if we could go base 2 TEs in the post Sellers era. Portis would totally rock in that formation, given that the defense would have one more gap to defend and Portis reads zone blocking as well as any player in the history of the NFL.

Right now though, the only solution is just to have Sellers play more.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

*Gasp* Zorn doesn't trust rookies, and lately Zorn has been less open when it comes to the offense so that means......THAT Zorn doesn't trust himself. I see. The ways of the Freudian slip are strong.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

^ you know Dirtbag....for some weird unknown reason....I understood that. scarey.
Funny but scarey.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;501981]*Gasp* Zorn doesn't trust rookies, and lately Zorn has been less open when it comes to the offense so that means......THAT Zorn doesn't trust himself. I see. The ways of the Freudian slip are strong.[/quote]

Or maybe it's just the OL is underperforming so he's not comfortable in getting JC killed by opening things up? And with a low margin for error, he knows we simply cannot afford silly rookie mistakes?

Zorn isn't the first or last NFL head coach to not trust rookies.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;501999]Or maybe it's just the OL is underperforming so he's not comfortable in getting JC killed by opening things up? And with a low margin for error, he knows we simply cannot afford silly rookie mistakes?

[B]Zorn isn't the first or last NFL head coach to not trust rookies[/B].[/quote]Sounds a lot like Joe Gibbs ;-)

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;501999]Or maybe it's just the OL is underperforming so he's not comfortable in getting JC killed by opening things up? And with a low margin for error, he knows we simply cannot afford silly rookie mistakes?

Zorn isn't the first or last NFL head coach to not trust rookies.[/quote]I don't think it's ALL the offensive line, because they've been bad at protecting JC all year and we've overcome that for some pretty impressive victories. My initial impression (and I haven't looked at the tape) is that the difference in the last two weeks is all in how Campbell and Moss are seeing the field.

But if you're are right, and the offensive line has been that much more offensive over the last two games that it's ruining everything Zorn would like to do, I would think he HAS to start benching players like Rabach and Jansen, right? He wouldn't go through the rest of the season just trying to playcall around piss poor talent on the OL, would he?

Because that would get very ugly, very fast. This team would be basically unwatchable for the remainder.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;501974][B]You certainly hate to hear of trust issues. It sounds like hes a very slow learner.[/B]

I was shocked that we even IMO wasted a draft pick on a TE. With already having an elite TE in Cooley and a solid #2 in Yoder. I guess we will have to take a wait and see approach, not much choice at the moment.

At the moment all three second round picks in this years class are suspect, I would have been happy with one of the three stepping up and making some contributions to the team this season.[/quote]

slow learner isn't even the word i was thinking. he must be learning impaired.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

I think we're getting a bit worked up over some rookies that generally take a while to develop. You can question drafting some of them, but i think they deserve a little time before we start jumping all over them.

Davis, from what i can tell, has some serious skills, but he's behind Cooley for good reason. Zorn is a stickler and if he doesn't see things in practice, you're not playing. I would have thought we'd see some two TE sets, w/ CC and Davis on the field together more, but hey, it's not happening for a reason. Zorn pointed this out. By next year we should see some improvements. Let's just hope they get on the field a little to get some experience.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

if you go by what all 3 have done for the team so far,it's 3 wasted picks.thomas is promising,the other two don't come close to that.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=drew54;501637]2009 #1 pick should be OLine.[/quote]

EVERY PICK IN 2009 should be either O-LINE or D-LINE.

We drafted Fred Davis (as well as the others - jury is still out on them) because we believe we are smarter than the other NFL teams- that is, on draft day, we were certain that every other NFL team got it wrong and that each of the 3 picks are "steals" or "must draft" at their picks. Now, there is nothing wrong with thinking you are smarter than other teams, except when you aren't. Hindsight is 20/20, I know- but can't we do better?

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;501999]Or maybe it's just the OL is underperforming so he's not comfortable in getting JC killed by opening things up? And with a low margin for error, he knows we simply cannot afford silly rookie mistakes?

Zorn isn't the first or last NFL head coach to not trust rookies.[/quote]


OH, I see now EVERYONE wants to talk about the O-Line. How typical :D

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=BrunellMVP?;502120]EVERY PICK IN 2009 should be either O-LINE or D-LINE.

We drafted Fred Davis (as well as the others - jury is still out on them) because we believe we are smarter than the other NFL teams- that is, on draft day, we were certain that every other NFL team got it wrong and that each of the 3 picks are "steals" or "must draft" at their picks. Now, there is nothing wrong with thinking you are smarter than other teams, except when you aren't. Hindsight is 20/20, I know- but can't we do better?[/quote]I agree 100% with this. There's nothing wrong with going out on a limb on draft day and trying to show all the other teams whats up...but then it's pretty critical that you get it right.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

From what I understand, the main reason Fred Davis has been elusive is because he doen't know the play book yet. This is just what I heard, but if it is true, wouldn't you think someone would have picked up the fact that hes a dumbass before we drafted him?

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=JLW428;502158]From what I understand, the main reason Fred Davis has been elusive is because he doen't know the play book yet. This is just what I heard, but if it is true, wouldn't you think someone would have picked up the fact that hes a dumbass before we drafted him?[/quote]Well, we've got a reputation for being one of the toughest teams in the NFL, but no one said we could line up in the off-season for scholarly awards.

Pete Kendall and Antwaan Randle El aside, we haven't pulled a Patriot, and gone out of our way to acquire cerebral players. That's not really "Redskin football". Redskin football has always been tough, hard nosed, beat them at the point of attack style.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Guys, guys... you're making a scapegoat out of someone who doesn't even play. Give the rook a break before you kick him off the team! Freddy D. is gonna have an impact in this league... there aren't many tight ends that come roaring out of the gate in their first year.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;502166]Well, we've got a reputation for being one of the toughest teams in the NFL, but no one said we could line up in the off-season for scholarly awards.

Pete Kendall and Antwaan Randle El aside, we haven't pulled a Patriot, and gone out of our way to acquire cerebral players. [B]That's not really "Redskin football". Redskin football has always been tough, hard nosed, beat them at the point of attack style.[/quote][/B]

This is very true; however, with the way that play books are drawn up now, as apposed to the 80's especially with this west coast offense, players have to be somewhat intellegent. When I say intellegent the only thing I'm saying is smart enough to realize that you have to memorize a pretty thick playbook. They all know the game of football. It just comes down to intead of watching TV all night or whaterver, just memorize a playbook, its not that hard.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

We drafted davis, because we did not want a player that could help us now like Desean Jackson.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

I just finished the first half of the game tape review, and Davis was in on four plays. Here are my game notes for those plays:

1) [drive 1] First and ten (he's the left TE) - Zone right, Rabach and Thomas and Kendall are all instantly at the second level knocking heads. Davis has the front side sealed.

2) [drive 2] First and ten (he's the left TE) - Naked Boot pass, and the Cowboys play it well. The pass complete to Cooley in the flat with Campbell under pressure. Davis was running the "over" route, or the ten-twelve yard cross. He might have been open, but it didn't matter because of the playcall.

3) [drive 3] First and ten (he's the left TE) - He's in a pattern. 5 man rush, major pressure by Ratliff, but at least Rabach doesn't fall down and can stay with him. Campbell under duress throws in Cooley's direction.

4) [the next play] (he's the only TE on the right, Cooley is split wide) Toss right, Fred Davis easily beaten by DeMarcus Ware.

So he was in on two running plays, did his job once vs Ware, and got killed the other time vs. a better player. On the passing plays, his released looked fine, and Campbell just got crushed off the snap.

I'll see if he plays any in the second half, but I'm not sure he will, DT was getting all the reps at the end of the half.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

After careful consideration and intensive inquiry I can confidently say we drafted Fred Davis because... he has the best weed connections on the West Coast and everybody knows West Coast bud beats the hell out of that East Coast crap :pimp:

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

He's from Toledo, OH.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;502209]He's from Toledo, OH.[/quote]

Right, played college ball somewhere else though ;)

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

My girlfriends from Ohio. If I lived there I'd want to leave too.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;502206]I just finished the first half of the game tape review, and Davis was in on four plays. Here are my game notes for those plays:

1) [drive 1] First and ten (he's the left TE) - Zone right, Rabach and Thomas and Kendall are all instantly at the second level knocking heads. Davis has the front side sealed.

2) [drive 2] First and ten (he's the left TE) - Naked Boot pass, and the Cowboys play it well. The pass complete to Cooley in the flat with Campbell under pressure. Davis was running the "over" route, or the ten-twelve yard cross. He might have been open, but it didn't matter because of the playcall.

3) [drive 3] First and ten (he's the left TE) - He's in a pattern. 5 man rush, major pressure by Ratliff, but at least Rabach doesn't fall down and can stay with him. Campbell under duress throws in Cooley's direction.

4) [the next play] (he's the only TE on the right, Cooley is split wide) Toss right, Fred Davis easily beaten by DeMarcus Ware.

So he was in on two running plays, did his job once vs Ware, and got killed the other time vs. a better player. On the passing plays, his released looked fine, and Campbell just got crushed off the snap.

I'll see if he plays any in the second half, but I'm not sure he will, DT was getting all the reps at the end of the half.[/quote]
Dude, you are an extremely extreme fan.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

I just don't get it. We have seen what happens when we draft all the free agents. Some come in and make an impact right away, some do nothing, and some take a while to get going.

Now everyone was happy with having all the draft picks and being able to "build through the draft" but you guys want to see impact players that change the entire game.

I say give it some time. Hindsight is 20/20. But drafting any o-lineman in the second round would have mean that it would have taking a few years for them to come into their own (Derrick Dockery).

I hope we have some patience after next weeks win.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

I thought we were trying to get rid of cooley because of money initially, but now i am scratching my head about this one.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

I think his problem is learning the playbook.

Fact is that none of the rookie receivers has done much so far this season. Most WR/TE don't do too good the first year - however even this yr has been underwhelming for our Redskin rookie receivers.

Then you've got a seventh rounder like Chris Horton lighting the place up. I wonder who gets the big payday a couple years from now!

We could have use at least one OL or DL instead of three WR/TE in the draft!

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

I think we are fine. The only thing that remained the same from last year was the running game and the defense. And everthing that is new, seems to be giving us problems. I can see us with a new receiver coach next year, maybe Taylor Jacobs. Now, honestly, Zorn just wants Davis to be accountable for his play. Trust wasn't the right term to use, but i'm sure its going to get some production.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;502181]We drafted davis, because [B]we did not want a player that could help us now like Desean Jackson[/B].[/quote]

geez, that's getting old. if we had drafted Royal or Jackson, they would have sat on the bench just like thomas and kelly. they are good on teams that don't already have a starting lineup of WR's but we did, and do, and until the rookies earn their pay they will be slower on the field.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;502377]geez, that's getting old. if we had drafted Royal or Jackson, they would have sat on the bench just like thomas and kelly. they are good on teams that don't already have a starting lineup of WR's but we did, and do, and until the rookies earn their pay they will be slower on the field.[/quote]

Plus we already have a "DeSean Jackson"...his name is Santana Moss

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=53Fan;502212]My girlfriends from Ohio. If I lived there I'd want to leave too.[/quote]Good joke I heard today:

Michigan had to cancel their trip to Ohio State this week. Why? Because they couldn't get past Toledo!

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

:silly: I'm surprised you find that funny living in Michigan GTripp.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;502214]Dude, you are an extremely extreme fan.[/quote]

Not to start an ass-kissing contest, but GTripp knows his shit! Keep dropping knowledge on us man!!

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

ok fake scenario....lets just say Cooley goes down with an injury (*knocking on wood). TADAAA! We have Fred Davis. but we should get some real playing time and maybe net us a couple catches before that could happen just to break em in.