Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[QUOTE=The Goat;505762]Goddamnit 53 i love your optimism (all seriousness here)! [B] R u a motivational speaker?[/[/B]QUOTE]

:laughing2 Not hardly. Look, we want to win every game. We're fans. I get as fed up as anybody with the stupid ass mistakes we make. I KNOW we can win these games! But I think we expect more than maybe we should at this point in time. It would be crazy to believe that after 12 games in a new offense, that the team would run it as if we've been doing it for 2-3 years. If we don't show improvement next year, then I'd be worried. Campbell's been told not to lock- in to one receiver, check-down, get rid of the ball quickly. Now he's being told, don't check-down so fast, give the primary receiver time for the play to develop. This offense takes time to learn. Kelly is just getting started. We're 7-5 through this and somehow still in the playoff hunt. I see good signs. After listening to some of the "fans" I realize, judgements made in haste, are judgements not made with much thought, and sound pretty dumb. Being on this board has actually helped me. I'm an emotional guy and usually raising hell about something. :)

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=Drift Reality;505789]I think it is pretty glaring - we don't have the same level of top-tier physical talent in the trenches as the elite NFL teams.[/quote]

That sums it up. Yes, we had drops today by the receivers in wet, sloppy weather. There is no excuse for that. But overall, our entire body of work (or lack thereof) this season has been defined by poor play in the trenches. Our run blocking is normally good, but aside from that we get manhandled on the line of scrimmage.

Once again we failed to generate consistent pressure, and JC was sacked several times. Teams that consistently pressure the QB and give thier own QB time to step into throws in the pocket usually succeed.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=Skins4Eva;505790]I dont care if I get banned, so ban me then. Jason Campbell sucks, I said it a long time ago, stop with the excuses please, he is too damn slow, Ive said it and I will say it again. How much time do we give this guy? Im saying it...there needs to be an open competition at QB this offseason. Enough with the blind optimism. There is being a fan and being blinded by emotion. When Portis doesnt hand hold the team and carry the team on his back, Campbell does NOTHING to win a game. Zorns playcalling is basic and predictable. We have zero TRUE recievers. We have two great athletes in Moss and Randle El, but they are not true recievers as far as being route runners, hence they always never seem to be open. Before I get blasted for telling the truth and probably banned, why the hell does everyone on this sight seemingly dissapprove of anyone telling the truth as opposed to blind optimism? Everyone talks of stability, and we have stunk offensively for years. Hell with that, im calling for an overhaul. Marcus Washington, Shawn Springs, Jansen, Rabach, Randle El, need to go, and Campbell should be given the rest of the year then challenged by Brennan or bring in someone else. Don't even get me started on Jason Taylor. To hell with this boring ass and ineffective offense. I love the Washington Redskins but I absolutely am disgusted with this current collection of players. I will say, atleast the defense played with some heart. Oh yeah, and I also believe i said the Hall signing was good too. I used to love this site but my god, [B]if you say anything against the team you are some how not knowledgeable or a true fan[/B]. Playoffs?! Are you kidding?![/quote]No, if you say something stupid, expect to be called out for a lack of knowledge. To say that Santana Moss isn't a true receiver as far as being able to run routes properly is absolutely ignorant. I said it before, and it bears repeating, put Campbell behind Eli's O-line, which is equally strong at run blocking and pass protecting, and Campbell would flourish. He did not get much help from his receivers today, but the playmakers are good enough if we can just give him time to work through his progressions.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;505800]I keep saying that JC locks onto one receiver. If the main receiver on a route is Santana, he's gonna throw to him and damnit, he better be open or else we're going to take a sack.

I'm almost convinced that JC can't read the field and find the open man. I can't figure out if that's just JC as a QB or if he's so damn panicked in the pocket (afraid of his O-Line sucking) that he has no time to look for someone open.[/quote]I'm not seeing this. I'm not sure what you are basing this on, but if the play design is a three step drop or if it's a max protection play, there aren't going to be multiple reads. If it's a five/seven step drop, Campbell [I]usually[/I] looks three or four places before trying to force the ball in there. On a lot of these plays, Moss is running off the coverage, so he never looks at him.

I think it's clear that a lot of what we like to do in the passing game runs through Santana Moss, so I wouldn't confuse him getting the ball a lot with Campbell locking on to him.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=SouperMeister;505797]Our last O-lineman drafted earlier than the third round was Chris Samuels in 2000. [I]The last D-lineman that we drafted earlier than the 5th round was Kenard Lang in 1997[/I]. This is an absolute joke. I don't want another play maker. We have plenty invested in playmakers. We need to get tougher on the interior to compete with the best.[/quote]

I agree completely. That's exactly what I was saying. You can't draft 5th or 7th round picks every few years and expect to get winners in the trenches. An excellent DL improves any DBs. A great OL makes any QB or RB look great.

Look what the top teams draft every year. That's why everyone can't understand our crazy draft strategy for the last dozen years. That's also why we kept old players like Bruce Smith, Wynn, etc who were past their prime. Cerratto and Zorn need to change our draft strategy.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=mheisig;505735]Nobody mentioned that we played some really good teams, and today we played the now 11-1 defending Super Bowl champions who are arguably the best team in football, and certainly the best in the NFC.[/quote]

~~~~~
I got to agree to some extent it is our division and what teams we have played to this point. I also think our O-Line and D-Lines' struggles are hurting us.

Tonight it was obvious that not having a true second receiver is hurting us as well.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

Did anyone truly think at the beginning of the year we would even be 7-5? I think we got spoiled by the great start.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;505807]I'm not seeing this. I'm not sure what you are basing this on, but if the play design is a three step drop or if it's a max protection play, there aren't going to be multiple reads. If it's a five/seven step drop, Campbell [I]usually[/I] looks three or four places before trying to force the ball in there. On a lot of these plays, Moss is running off the coverage, so he never looks at him.

I think it's clear that a lot of what we like to do in the passing game runs through Santana Moss, so I wouldn't confuse him getting the ball a lot with Campbell locking on to him.[/quote]

I definitely could be wrong. I don't know all the inner workings of QBs and such. I'm just looking from the standpoint of a fan trying to figure out what's going wrong with my team.

I don't really have any beef with Campbell. I really wanna see the guy do well. But after losses like this the haters just come out the woodworks. So I try to appeal to both sides of the fence. :)

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=TheSmurfs22;505811]Did anyone truly think at the beginning of the year we would even be 7-5? I think we got spoiled by the great start.[/quote]

I think that has a lot to do with it and I think the FO should have a good idea of where we need help now.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=TheSmurfs22;505811]Did anyone truly think at the beginning of the year we would even be 7-5? I think we got spoiled by the great start.[/quote]

I think we did get spoiled. This team looked like a 12-4 team after the first few weeks. The defense was pretty dominant and the offense was exciting, productive and dynamic. Since week 5, our defense has been pretty good and consistent, but our offense has been dreadful. Our offense has averaged something like 16 points per game over the past 6 weeks. That's not just bad, that's Spurrier bad. I think there are plenty of reasons to be optimistic, but there are also an awful lot of reasons to be upset with the state and direction of our team.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;505807]I'm not seeing this. I'm not sure what you are basing this on, but if the play design is a three step drop or if it's a max protection play, there aren't going to be multiple reads. If it's a five/seven step drop, Campbell [I]usually[/I] looks three or four places before trying to force the ball in there. On a lot of these plays, Moss is running off the coverage, so he never looks at him.

I think it's clear that a lot of what we like to do in the passing game runs through Santana Moss, so I wouldn't confuse him getting the ball a lot with Campbell locking on to him.[/quote]

Agree like 100% and stuff.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

The best teams have few flaws. We're good but will need to make changes to get to the next level. Both the DL and OL are average at best and getting older.

I'm happy we're above .500 and think Zorn has got this team to play to it's top capability. However, we need more talent to go higher.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;505738]We've also played some of the worse teams, who we've barely squeaked by with a win, with the exception of a bad team that beat us. (Rams). Elite teams don't almost get beat by bad teams. Hell, average teams don't almost get beat by bad teams.

There's no reason that we struggled against an 0-12 team and lent a win to a 2-9 team. It makes no sense.[/quote]
Exactly! How big does that loss to the Rams look now? That loss could be the deciding factor on us making (missing) the playoffs. It's real simple, you have to beat the teams that you're supposed to beat.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;505801][B]I think the drops can be attributed to the weather.[/B] But it's widely acknowledged that a soft field favors the offense in the NFL, and that was certainly true for the Giants receivers against our DBs. Those sacks that Campbell kept taking were short drops/quick passes where the receivers ran piss poor routes. Moss, Randle El, and Cooley are definately NFL caliber players, but I wish we could rely on EVERY player on the field on every play, but this is simply not a reality for the Redskins. Some players who play on the offense are just unreliable.

Portis also sucked in pass blocking today.[/quote]

Can't agree here though. Moss has dropped the ball throughout his career w/ us. Last year he was friggin terrible w/ drops. And weather @ the playoff game last year wasn't so bad and we dropped passes all day. Also, Kelly had great hands in college, as Davis did come to think of it, and now we're seeing drops there. Again, coaching issue? No way to be sure but Hixon has some explaining to do on his group - drops, route running. Basically receivers have to do 2 things very well to be successful... you got it, run their routes precisely and catch the ball. Not one of our WRs really do both things well consistently do they?

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

Campbell's problems to me are not anything inherent, but that he's screwing up simple plays when stuff around him starts to go wrong. I think Zorn should toss out the three step drop crap altogether, but when Campbell looks to one and looks to two, and both are covered, he's got to throw the ball in a spot where only his receiver can make the catch.

I hate three step drops because our QB is mobile and moves well in the pocket, and we're putting him at the mercy of the receivers with all the quick throw stuff. I understand the perception is that the line can't protect, but they've been much better since the bye week, and quite frankly, I'd rather put Campbell's fate in the hands of the OL right now than in the hands of the WRs.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=A10sROCK;505819]The best teams have few flaws. [B]We're good but will need to make changes to get to the next level.[/B] Both the DL and OL are average at best and getting older.

I'm happy we're above .500 and think Zorn has got this team to play to it's top capability. However, we need more talent to go higher.[/quote]

I don't really think so after this game. Our defense is great, which is a testament to Blache IMO because he does not have an elite front 7 to work with. But our offense is truly one of the very worst in football now as the numbers prove. The two units together don't equal a good team. The equation seems to mean we cannot win against very good teams and may win or lose against very shitty teams like Seattle/St. Louis depending on things like luck (a unnecessary bad pass from Hasselbeck for instance).

We're not a truly bad team either... i don't know what the hell we are. Maybe it's all semantics...

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=mheisig;505735]Nobody mentioned that we played some really good teams, and today we played the now 11-1 defending Super Bowl champions who are arguably the best team in football, and certainly the best in the NFC.[/quote]

This is a game we should have won. The opportunities were there. We beat ourselves by not executing and making dumb mistakes.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

Also, while we nitpick on offense, we ignore just how terrible the special teams have been all season.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;505830]Also, while we nitpick on offense, we ignore just how terrible the special teams have been all season.[/quote]
You're absolutely right. I've been trying to figure out why Danny Smith gets so much praise. Under his regime we have not had a solid kicker or punter, are coverage units are inconsistent, Rock is a decent returner but he's not a gamechanger, and we have never had a solid PR either, the only constant for our special teams has been Ethan Albright and I can't even contribute his success to Danny Smith because Albright's been around longer than Danny.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;505824]Campbell's problems to me are not anything inherent, but that he's screwing up simple plays when stuff around him starts to go wrong. I think Zorn should toss out the three step drop crap altogether, but when Campbell looks to one and looks to two, and both are covered, he's got to throw the ball in a spot where only his receiver can make the catch.

I[B] hate three step drops because our QB is mobile and moves well in the pocket, and we're putting him at the mercy of the receivers with all the quick throw stuff.[/B] I understand the perception is that the line can't protect, but they've been much better since the bye week, and quite frankly, I'd rather put Campbell's fate in the hands of the OL right now than in the hands of the WRs.[/quote]

Just an observation....JC is not Matt Hasselback. One of the things Zorn needs to do is start either putting JC back in shotgun more or calling more 7 step max protect pass plays in the 15-25 yard range. Three step drop passes is not what JC does best so why do we keep doing it?? Not that it mattered today but Zorn needs to start adjusting to what his QB does best.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=The Goat;505826]I don't really think so after this game. Our defense is great, which is a testament to Blache IMO because he does not have an elite front 7 to work with. But our offense is truly one of the very worst in football now as the numbers prove. The two units together don't equal a good team. The equation seems to mean we cannot win against very good teams and may win or lose against very shitty teams like Seattle/St. Louis depending on things like luck (a unnecessary bad pass from Hasselbeck for instance).

We're not a truly bad team either... i don't know what the hell we are. Maybe it's all semantics...[/quote]

To me - "Good" = above average for our record. I think we'll be 9-7 this season or perhaps 10-6. Probably not a playoff team but it's still a possibility.

The Defense is carrying this team, as it has for the last few years. Clearly the offense is struggling. Basically teams know that Clinton Portis is the best weapon we have. Stop him and you stop this team offensively. Although many will contest this, I do not think Jason Campbell can carry this team. Throwing into triple coverage today? Holding the ball too long on multiple plays for sacks? Why so many dropped balls - every single game? His numbers are simply elevated today because the Giants played soft for the last 8 minutes - giving him short passes and runs. Still we got no points. Jason Campbell is good but I wonder if he can be the long-term franchise for this team. If the team adds a veteran QB this off-season it tells me they're hedging the bet. If JC is given a long-term extension then Zorn is definetly betting his Redskin's career on Campbell. I hope Jason is the future but I'm wondering more and more whether he is the one - even with a better OL.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

I'd like to see Colt Brennan compete for QB. He was very impressive in the pre-season.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=eye_h8_dallas;505838]I'd like to see Colt Brennan compete for QB. He was very impressive in the pre-season.[/quote]

I'll be the first one to say, I love Colt Brennan. For some reason I have a crush on the kid. But I don't think he's ready to be competing for any sort of starting position right now. This season is not over yet, if we were completely out of playoff contention then sure, give the kid a shot. But right now we've still got a heartbeat, albeit a weak one, we're not dead yet.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;505841]I'll be the first one to say, I love Colt Brennan. For some reason I have a crush on the kid. But I don't think he's ready to be competing for any sort of starting position right now. This season is not over yet, if we were completely out of playoff contention then sure, give the kid a shot. But right now we've still got a heartbeat, albeit a weak one, we're not dead yet.[/quote]

I like Colt but I also think he's a little way from being NFL ready. He's got an ugly throwing motion but he also gets the offense scoring.

I hope Jason is the future but wonder if he's the one. If we don't make the playoffs this season he will have competition next year from a 'new' veteran QB and Colt. Only Zorn knows whether JC is the one and the longer Jason plays as the starter the more Jim Zorn is mixing his own future with Campbell's.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

We aren't that great of a team, simple.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=mheisig;505735]Nobody mentioned that we played some really good teams, and today we played the now 11-1 defending Super Bowl champions who are arguably the best team in football, and certainly the best in the NFC.[/quote]


Hey bud we lost to the sorry ass Rams, let the sorry ass Lions actually have an outside chance at tying the game, even though statistically we dominated them, and had to battle for a win over the sorry ass Seachickens. Before that we got blasted by the Steelers, a team with a QB one nasty hit away from IR, and an injury plagued RB. We are not playing sound football right now.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=A10sROCK;505843]I like Colt but I also think he's a little way from being NFL ready. He's got an ugly throwing motion but he also gets the offense scoring.

[B]I hope Jason is the future but wonder if he's the one.[/B] If we don't make the playoffs this season he will have competition next year from a 'new' veteran QB and Colt. Only Zorn knows whether JC is the one and the longer Jason plays as the starter the more Jim Zorn is mixing his own future with Campbell's.[/quote]

I like Campbell. I keep trying to reason with myself and say hes going to be the future of this franchise I'm still over on the pro-Campbell side of the fence, but it seems like every week more people jump on the "bench Campbell" wagon. I think the guy has the potential to be good but there are too many cogs in the wheel right now preventing that. Every now and then though my support for him wains and I'm back to reasoning with myself.

So, for the rest of the people who support Campbell, does that support ever wain? Do you ever think that maybe Campbell's not the one? Or if Campbell is the proverbial sinking ship, you follow him down to the depths of the ocean?

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=The Goat;505798]You're undoubtedly right... but i don't see that as the reason we lost today. Execution on offense, specifically away from the LOS, was abysmal. The receiving corp playing at an NFL caliber level alone would have kept us in this game, but w/ I believe 5 or 6 good passes dropped and terrible route running we didn't have a chance. Does it strike anyone else bizarre that JC has so few open targets to throw to on passing downs, and against a secondary that is not elite. Again, i'm starting to wonder if there is a serious coaching issue here w/ the WR corp. They drop passes all the time. They run poor routes. They fail to get open consistently.

Very little chance of winning in this predicament. Stan Hixon should be on the hot-seat IMHO. His group is consistently not up to the challenge, regardless of the rookie class who we make excuses for or the vets who continue to drop passes on critical downs.[/quote]


Have to laugh my ass off!!!!!! Still think I am on Prozac now Goat for going along with Matty and thinking the Gmen would dominate? Granted I was joking in the other thread about bringing Norv back as the OC once SD fires him, but at this rate I don't think it is such a bad idea do you? Norv set records with the likes of Brad Johnson, Michael Westbrook, Albert Connell, a much younger James Thrash, Stephen Alexander, and of course Stephen Davis. Shoot, Norv had more offensive output with good old Gus, Westbrook, Thrash, Terry Allen and the old man Shepperd that what we saw today. Zorny has more collective talent on both sides of the ball(with the exception at CB) than Norv did, and will be lucky to hit 9-7. The injuries play a big part, as does the inept play, but I think the WCO has been figured out by now and is now passe.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;505848]I like Campbell. I keep trying to reason with myself and say hes going to be the future of this franchise I'm still over on the pro-Campbell side of the fence, but it seems like every week more people jump on the "bench Campbell" wagon. I think the guy has the potential to be good but there are too many cogs in the wheel right now preventing that. Every now and then though my support for him wains and I'm back to reasoning with myself.

So, for the rest of the people who support Campbell, does that support ever wain? Do you ever think that maybe Campbell's not the one? Or if Campbell is the proverbial sinking ship, you follow him down to the depths of the ocean?[/quote]

I like Campbell. I also think Colt has a future with us. I waiver on Jason when he does something I wish he would'nt or does'nt do something that looks wide open to me. Where I differ from some of the others is this...Can you imagine having the same job, but having to do it completely different each year then the way you were trained to do it the year before? I think that is what Jason goes through and I would like to see him in the same system for 2-3 years before passing judgement.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;505848]I like Campbell. I keep trying to reason with myself and say hes going to be the future of this franchise I'm still over on the pro-Campbell side of the fence, but it seems like every week more people jump on the "bench Campbell" wagon. I think the guy has the potential to be good but there are too many cogs in the wheel right now preventing that. Every now and then though my support for him wains and I'm back to reasoning with myself.

So, for the rest of the people who support Campbell, does that support ever wain? Do you ever think that maybe Campbell's not the one? Or if Campbell is the proverbial sinking ship, you follow him down to the depths of the ocean?[/quote]

I don't have a problem with Campbell. Campbell hasn't done an awful job, but he hasn't been great. I think he has potential to be a good QB, but he may never be the next Marino P., Manning or even Brady. The problem I have with starting Brennan over Campbell that it doesn't all sudden make the skins a super bowl caliber team. Even when Collins was at the helm the skins still lost the first round of the playoffs. It seems every other year the some skins fans want to bench the starting QB for a new one thinking that will solve the problem.


You don't need the next Tom Brady to win the superbowl. Look at the Giants. Manning was awful his first couple of years in the NFL and the Giants consistently made the playoffs and won a SB.

I always wonder what kind of numbers Campbell would put on a team like NE, NYG, or even the Cowboys.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

What's wrong with the Redskins? How about playing better teams? You know, teams with better defenses, offenses, coaches and players. Mix in a tea spoon of "lack of heart" and you got an average at best team dish ready to serve disappointed fans.

Disgusting!

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=saden1;505854]What's wrong with the Redskins? How about playing better teams? You know, teams with better defenses, offenses, coaches and players. Mix in a tea spoon of "lack of heart" and you got an average at best team dish ready to serve disappointed fans.

Disgusting![/quote]

I agree completely. We have a long, long way to go before becoming a good team. And we're either old, not very good, or both at some critical positions.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

Zorn said he liked to break the season down into quarters.

3-1 in the first quarter, 3-1 in the second quarter, 1-3 in the third.

Someone on here pointed out that our 3rd quarter of the season has been no better than 1-3 for like 4 or 5 years. And the trend continues....

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=GMScud;505862]Zorn said he liked to break the season down into quarters.

3-1 in the first quarter, 3-1 in the second quarter, 1-3 in the third.

Someone on here pointed out that our 3rd quarter of the season has been no better than 1-3 for like 4 or 5 years. And the trend continues....[/quote]
Yeah. The month of November has not been kind to us this decade.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;505830]Also, while we nitpick on offense, we ignore just how terrible the special teams have been all season.[/quote]Indeed. It's difficult to win when 2 out of the 3 phases of the game have been subpar all season.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=SouperMeister;505867]Indeed. It's difficult to win when 2 out of the 3 phases of the game have been subpar all season.[/quote]

Yup. I feel bad for our defense. 4 of the last 5 seasons we've fielded a damn good defense, and given them no help.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

if we would have won that game you guys would have been talking about we are the best but we did lose to the super bowl champs that were 10-1. some of you remind me of philly fans sometimes. let the year play out and then hate. its a long way from over. opinions are a little different then hate statements . you hate? find a new team

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

i understand

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=47FAN;505869]if we would have won that game you guys would have been talking about we are the best but we did lose to the super bowl champs that were 10-1. some of you remind me of philly fans sometimes. let the year play out and then hate. its a long way from over. opinions are a little different then hate statements . you hate? find a new team[/quote]

I haven't heard anyone say they hate the Skins. We're playing like dog shit. It's totally valid to hate some aspects of our play and be critical about what's going on.

I like a lot of our players, but I HATE what I'm seeing on the field for the most part.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

i agree. maybe out of context. let jason run the same offense for a year or two before you want to bench him. if colt comes in chances are you will be in the same situation for a year or two.