Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;506421]I am saying faltering for the whole '09 campaign. He will have a whole two years under his belt with Zorn and his system, as will the Wr corp, etc. Snyder's first move as Owner was dumping Frerotte, then dumped Johnson because of the money. I can't see The Danny spending a lot of $ to keep a mediocre QB around if he dumped the likes of Frerotte and Johnson.[/quote]

Snyder didn't have anything to do with dumping Frerotte. He took over the team in 1999 and didn't have any say in personnel that year. Casserly was the one that brought in Brad Johnson.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=Mattyk72;506429]Snyder didn't have anything to do with dumping Frerotte. He took over the team in 1999 and didn't have any say in personnel that year. Casserly was the one that brought in Brad Johnson.[/quote]


OK you got me. But do you think the Danny is going to sign an average QB to 4 more years with a higher asking price? I don't think so. What has the guy done to warrant it so far, especially if he does falter next season?

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;506424]What makes you think JC will struggle all of next year? Also, it was a mistake to dump Brad Johnson, but Gus? You realize that Gus has NEVER posted a rating above 80 in any season in which he passed for 1,000 or more yards, right?[/quote]

You could say that about almost everyone of Gibbs QB's. Perhaps I'm assisting you with your point I don't know but we all have to agree JC is a little to laid back. Yea his laid back attitude enables him to be a "good" drive manager, but if we are losing and need a couple of scores....his good ole boy, laid back attitude, we will somehow get it done...just doesn't get it done. We need a QB with a sense of urgency about scoring when we are down 2 scores in the 4th quarter. not someone who will casually walk up to the huddle and casually walk up to the line and casually call the play then hold the ball for longer then 4-5 seconds and get chased all over the field to finally get sacked 5-10 yards back further.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

I wouldn't rule out signing him to an extension in the offseason, he could be had for a pretty decent price right now. if Zorn believes he's the guy he wants to hang his hat on, it could easily happen. I know people hate looking at the big picture, but he's progressed nicely this year.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

Why the f would Snyder dictate whether Jason stays or goes? WTF? An owner doesn't put a friggin qb/qb coach at the helm and then not listen to what the coach is saying about the qb. Seriously. If Zorn is really the coach over the next few years he'll be the one to decide what we're doing at QB. This debate over what "the Danny" will do w/ Jason Campbell is... wetawded.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

^^^ Sorry for the freak-out. I just keep seeing that people aren't acknowledging what/who we have at the HC position.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

Wasn't there a thread a couple of weeks ago about how we should hurry up and sign Jason to a big contract? Seems like fans want to either hurry up and sign him or hurry up and bench him. Instant gratification in football is a myth. It doesn't work. Danny tried that his first few years as owner. We have a first year coach and a QB playing in a new system. Let's get some linemen and keep building. The NY fans were ready to dump Eli long time ago. Not so much now.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=53Fan;506448]Wasn't there a thread a couple of weeks ago about how we should hurry up and sign Jason to a big contract? Seems like fans want to either hurry up and sign him or hurry up and bench him. Instant gratification in football is a myth. It doesn't work. Danny tried that his first few years as owner. We have a first year coach and a QB playing in a new system. Let's get some linemen and keep building. The NY fans were ready to dump Eli long time ago. Not so much now.[/quote]

Good post, and just to quote JLC one last time I think he echos the same view pretty well here:

[quote]I find it odd that a team that has over-achieved in terms of its record in the eyes of many, is allegedly being held back by the same QB who was among the top eight in the NFL at the midpoint of the season. I'm not buying it. Not even close. Fundamental issues of personnel and scheme adjustment are overarching principles, and no one player is going to overcome that.

To retard the development of Campbell, again, just to hand the team over to Todd Collins strikes me as absurd. This season, realistically, was never about winning the Super Bowl, or even winning the division. They weren't built for that. [B]It's about building a solid program and growing into an offense and identity on that side of the ball that could stand up over time, and developing a quarterback who has the physical and mental tools to be very good for years to come[/B].

Don't lose sight of that.[/quote]

Have some patience folks.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=53Fan;506448]Wasn't there a thread a couple of weeks ago about how we should hurry up and sign Jason to a big contract? Seems like fans want to either hurry up and sign him or hurry up and bench him. Instant gratification in football is a myth. It doesn't work. Danny tried that his first few years as owner. We have a first year coach and a QB playing in a new system. Let's get some linemen and keep building. The NY fans were ready to dump Eli long time ago. Not so much now.[/quote]

Qb is a thankless job. When you're winning thats because its your job when you lose the guy behind you can do better. Ask Derek Anderson.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=The Goat;506440]^^^ Sorry for the freak-out. I just keep seeing that people aren't acknowledging what/who we have at the HC position.[/quote]

Thats alright Goat...you're just "playing" with heart. :)

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

Fans are stupid. JC improved alot from last year, give him atleast a year with one system. Sure go get a good backup for competition next camp, but now let him do his thing.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;506413]Well if Tom Brady can do it, then everyone should be able to do it. Right?



How about former 1st round picks Santonio Holmes and Heath Miller? Not to mention the fact that Jason Campbell is having a MUCH, MUCH better year than Ben Roethelisberger.



Jake Delhomme doesn't have a bunch of targets, but he's not having a stellar year either. Have you seen any of the Panthers games? Delhomme makes Campbell look like an All-Pro stud.



If you want to compare our QB to the likes of Tom Brady and Drew Brees be prepared to be disappointed year after year.[/quote]

Great post. Dont you love how people dont respond back when you throw a great argument at them?

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=prinzeofmoval;506450]Qb is a thankless job. When you're winning thats because its your job when you lose the guy behind you can do better. Ask Derek Anderson.[/quote]
Or McNabb. A bad game (or two) does not make a season or a career.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=JLW428;506401]How is JC supposed to get it done without a WR core? Yell at them to get open down feild? Force them to catch the ball? The WRs are the ones that are making JC look worse than he really is.[/quote]
Funny last year when our no name back up entered the game we did not have a problem with our passing game and moving the ball.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=firstdown;506529]Funny last year when our no name back up entered the game we did not have a problem with our passing game and moving the ball.[/quote]

As JLC noted in that article, if you compare Collins numbers over those games and Campbell's numbers over the past 4 games they are almost identical! The biggest difference was Portis was running wild at the end of last year and he is injured now.

Seriously guys, anyone who thinks we've got a QB controversy or should be starting Collins or Brennan is just completely clueless. Teams with a WINNING RECORD don't bench their 25 yr old QB (to the genius who said 'play the young guy') who hasn't turned the ball over, hasn't looked like a complete buffoon and hadn't cost the team games.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

From the JLC article:
[quote=Jason LaCanfora]So what are the arguments for Collins?

He's more accurate? Collins completed 63.8 percent of his passes during his four games in the regular season last season. Campbell is completing 63.8 percent of his passes this season. Collins, for all the mystique of those games, threw for 888 yards. Campbell, even given the plight of this offense, has thrown for 826 yards over the past four games, essentially the same thing.

Collins got the ball in the end zone five times down the stretch in 2007, but he, unlike Campbell, wasn't facing three of the better pass-rushing defenses in the four-week span(let's remember the losses came to Pittsburgh, Dallas and the Giants, not exactly the Bengals and Lions). Yes, there are problems in the red zone, but it's a lack of playmakers, not the quarterback. [/quote]

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=charlielyons;506376]they do drop alot of balls(very correct there). all im saying with the playoffs picture looking dark why not take a look at what we have on the bench and not just at QB...in alot of positions[/quote]

Most of your statements have been far off. First of all we are not out of the play-offs yet. Even if we loss against Baltimore we might not be out of the play-offs. If we win out or atleast only take 1 lose to the AFC. We still might sqeak in. I would rather win out though. So to replace the QB at this time. Would be idiotic. Why because we are still in it. if we were 5-7. Or worse it might be different. But for now. Chill out and lets see if we can adjust and if the O-line can protect JC and the WRs especially the rookies can step up and hodl on to the ball. That's our achilles heel. Hopefully we can get some wind behind us if we win against the Ravens. But saying to replace the QB right now is not a good option and I question many of your statements.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=firstdown;506529]Funny last year when our no name back up entered the game we did not have a problem with our passing game and moving the ball.[/quote]

Ummm...Is Al Saunders still the Offensive Coordinator..Uh no!! That's why there was no problem. he have been learning "that" offense for almost 10 years. So he knew the ins and out. So to think he can come in his first year and do better than JC is uneducated to say the least. he looked horrible in preseason. JC isn't the most mobile QB. But imagine Collins when the line breaks down as it often does..

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

It would be a huge mistake to replace JC at this point in the season and I am certain that Zorn & Co. wont do it.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=firstdown;506529]Funny last year when our no name back up entered the game we did not have a problem with our passing game and moving the ball.[/quote]

Different offense, different circumstances, and there were other factors at play than just the QB play.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

what has campbell done good besides not turnover the ball. he is playing a back up role now which is dont turn the ball over and dont lose the game.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

Zorn has developed QB to their max potential for many years. He knows if JC has the goods or not. For the rest of this season he will play JC and the rest of the starters. He inherited most of the offense and has to see them through the season.

Jason Campbell has had a QB rating of around 75 the last 3 seasons. He is slowly sinking back to that level this season. Bottom Line is the 70 QB range is simply not good enough for a LONG TERM franchise QB. Not after 4 seasons.

I hope JC improves to the level he started this season at. If he doesn't then sometime [I]next season[/I] there WILL BE a QB controversy.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

I agree, time for Colt. It's not that I hate jason; I just feel he can't get it done. As far as El and thrash we could cut even deeper.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=Dblock804;506618]I agree, time for Colt. It's not that I hate jason; I just feel he can't get it done. As far as El and thrash we could cut even deeper.[/quote]
i agree 100%....time for colt, kelly, and thomas to get chance,moss starting still though

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=Dblock804;506618]I agree, time for Colt. It's not that I hate jason; I just [B]feel he can't get it done.[/B] As far as El and thrash we could cut even deeper.[/quote]Obama ended up winning the election.

I say this because your comments that Jason Campbell can't get it done make me think that between Week 2 and Week 8, all sources of information went dark, and you were unaware of the monstrous stretch that JC was having.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=charlielyons;506627]i agree 100%....time for colt, kelly, and thomas to get chance,moss starting still though[/quote]

While we are at it, why don't we bench Cooley, Rogers, Landry, Fletcher, Samuels, and Carter and see if Davis, Tryon, Moore, Blades, Heyer and Jackson can play?

We're still very much in the playoff race. You don't quit the race while you're still in it. To junk our best players so the fans can see how Colt might play against real opponents in the regular season is bats*#t crazy.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

We need to judge JC after next year. Let's give the guy a full off season, pre season and the 09 season in the same offense and let the guy develop. However I do think Colt should get more of a look next pre season.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

We need an offensive line period, screw this non-sense QB talk (Colt Brennan? Give me a freaking break!). If you have a line that can protect JC, we'd be in better shape. Heyer and Rinehart need to come up to speed next season, it'd be nice to acquire a solid young free agent lineman and draft offensive and defensive lineman with your first couple of picks...as a matter of fact, our first pick in the draft SHOULD be a offensive lineman. We've seen JC play some damn good games when he gets protection and our running game is working. So the team needs to focus on the offensive line in the upcoming off season.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

for everyone that is calling for JC to be benched, go look at Eli's stats for his first 3.75 years in the league. He was average at best and if his last name wasn't Manning he would have never gotten the chance he did. Now he is great. 4 years in the same system can do wonders...give JC some time.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;506636]While we are at it, why don't we bench Cooley, Rogers, Landry, Fletcher, Samuels, and Carter and see if Davis, Tryon, Moore, Blades, Heyer and Jackson can play?

We're still very much in the playoff race. You don't quit the race while you're still in it. To junk our best players so the fans can see how Colt might play against real opponents in the regular season is bats*#t crazy.[/quote]
after we are out of the playoff race, we should see what we have, not while we are in the thick of it. but now that you mention it yoder could sit down for davis, washington will most likely be gone..blades needs to continue to play.....jansen will be gone, heyer should be playing and a rotation with jackson in the mix couldnt hurt. colt brennan may not be the answer but no one here can honestly say the are not curious about what this kid could do.....whats the harm if we are out of the playoff race.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=charlielyons;506662]colt brennan may not be the answer but no one here can honestly say the are not curious about what this kid could do.....whats the harm if we are out of the playoff race.[/quote]

Initially, I didn't like Colt. The kid has since grown on me and I am indeed curious to see what he could do. My affection for Colt and curiosity do not, however, justify benching Campbell and throwing Colt to the wolves.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;506666]Initially, I didn't like Colt. The kid has since grown on me and I am indeed curious to see what he could do. My affection for Colt and curiosity do not, however, justify benching Campbell and throwing Colt to the wolves.[/quote]
would you think differently if we were out of the playoffs

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

The overwhelming majority of Skins fans think benching JC would be stupid. There are always going to be the rare couple of people that think otherwise.

Barring a end of the season turnaround for Campbell, I say let him play next year and see how he does before we extend him.

I like the improvement JC has shown year to year. His work ethics are great. His drive is great. JLC is right. There's alot going on that is not on the QB.

There's no doubt about it though that the passing game has regressed in recent weeks. JC seems to have regressed. The whole offense has regressed. Personally, I keep asking myself if JC is a playmaker and does he have pocket presence that the top QB's have. Thru 12 games, I don't know. I thought yes, then now, I'm not sure, I'd have to say no. That's why I'm not an NFL scout.

Give JC this year and next to show us though.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

I like Colt, and can't wait for him to play in the preseason. But, this is Campbell's team to lead. Would be nice to see Colt as the backup next season.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=DIRTEE;506675]I like Colt, and can't wait for him to play in the preseason. But, this is Campbell's team to lead. Would be nice to see Colt as the backup next season.[/quote]
what has campbell done so great?

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

the same people who dont want campbell benched are also the same ones who wanted greg williams as HC. change is a good thing sometimes

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

JC QB rating is going down - just like it did last year before he was hurt.

I don't think he should be benched. We need to give him a full season to be the starting QB. This season.

However, giving him all next season also, "to develop" is crazy. Five years to prove himself? No team uses 5 seasons to try a QB.

Either he proves he can be the long-term QB, or by next year there will be a veteran WCO QB (to replace Colllins), and Colt will be here also to challenge him.

Zorn is not going to bet his Head Coaching job on Campbell unless he has the goods.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=charlielyons;506681]the same people who dont want campbell benched are also the same ones who wanted greg williams as HC. change is a good thing sometimes[/quote]

Well this is one poster who didn't want Williams as HC, and doesn't want Campbell benched.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=charlielyons;506681]the same people who dont want campbell benched are also the same ones who wanted greg williams as HC. change is a good thing sometimes[/quote]

Or, it can be a horrible, horrible thing.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=charlielyons;506679]what has campbell done so great?[/quote]

What has Colt done that is so great? He had two good games and two really bad games against 3rd stringers in the preseason. If you bench Campbell, you might as well cut him. Are you prepared to throw Campbell to the scrap heap for a guy who has never taken a single snap in an NFL game? If you are, you've got a lot of blind faith.