Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=tryfuhl;516400]sooo.. he's not good enough to stay.. too good to leave?

which side are you taking?[/quote]

Im not talking either side... I'm just saying that JLC article isn't really based on anything except that Rodgers is mad no one told him why he got demoted. Not really anything concrete that indicated he will leave.

I could really care less either way what he does... Average to slightly above average CB in my opinion.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Paintrain;516399]A couple points on trading Rogers-
1. He's not elite, nowhere close. He has terrible hands, has no history of shutting down elite WR-in fact I'd challenge anyone to point out one time he has done such-and isn't feared by coordinators or QB in the league.
2. Despite him being a top 10 pick, he is not in the top 40 in his position. There are dozens of Carlos Rogers out there in the league. He's a guy that won't kill you but won't really help you either. He doesn't change field position for your team, doesn't put points on the board and doesn't do anything 'special'. There are a dozen CB on the free agent market that will be more affordable and represent the same level of play if not better. Losing him is no great loss on the field.
3. He's going into a contract year, is well known to have an excessively high opinion of himself and is going to try to get top CB dollars. We're going to lose him with no compensation next year so it makes sense to get something while we can for him. A 2nd round pick would be a solid value for Rogers.[/quote]

Excellent points. If he could catch we would a great player. Buts that a big if.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=maroonandblack30;516401]Agree with all of this expect about trading Cooley.... he is one our only truly great players.[/quote]

Actually, if Cooley were traded, we supposedly have a pass catching 2nd rounder with solid talent right behind him.

And regarding those saying Rodgers is average...he is not...he would easiliy be the 2nd best corner on 80% of NFL Teams.
He would be the top corner on about 25% of them.

No, he doesn't get picks...but he is covering well, tackling well, understands positioning...he is a solid corner.
Of our 4 corners, he is arguably the best combination of age, skill, technique.
Springs would be the best, but he's old and gets injured.
Rodgers is good all around, not spectacular at anything, excellent fundementals
Smoot is undersized and has marginal cover skills...a good nickle at best.
Deangelo Hall has great age, like Rodgers, and is explosive and can get picks, but I worry about his weak fundementals, his undiciplined coverage tends to getting burned. Even though he has tackled well while with the Skins, he hasn't been the best.

Our best 1-2 punch is still Springs/Rodgers with Hall as a Nickle that can grab picks. If we can afford that, we need Rodgers as he is easily the most dependable of the 4.

Rating from 1-10 including all factors
8-Rodgers
8-Springs
7-Hall
6-Smoot

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

Sounds like Marcus Washington could be hitting the road as well.

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/12/marcus_washington_perhaps_movi.html]Washington, Perhaps Moving On - Redskins Insider[/url]

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

I said he value hasn't been higher since the draft, I would be willing to trade him, for a late 1st early second, maybe a second and a 3rd. Its a good time to trade rogers, package him with ARE.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=MeanEvilSkin;516353]I wonder if he team is considering ths because they feel they have a good shot at Ashmouga? Maybe D.Hall has been talking to him?

....out on the thin ice on this one.[/quote]

I used to be in Ashmouga bandwagon, but after watching some defense players playing on other teams after leaving Raiders; most of time they tend not to do well.. Raiders' defense is different from other teams, which raise some concerns how well Ashmouga will do in different schemes.. At last that's what I'm thinking?

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

I have to say I am amazed at some of the stuff JLC publisihes but these two articles are PURE speculation, and it is anoying to see him put his boot in .

I think Springs, Griffin, Taylor and Washington will all be approached about ways they can stay at reduced salaries/roles .

There is a trend for Redskins fans to down play Redskins Players .. Rogers is a very strong CB I would say going on his early form would be our best all round CB .

You want examples of where he was the man ... how about the first Dallas game where he shut down Owens, he went up against the best in the league against the Saints and Cardinals and was up to the job. Lets not forget he was coming off not one but two knee surgeries .

But people don't want to hear good things about Skins players .

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

The key issue here is what Rogers will demand from the team in the coming months. He showed a lot of growth this year but he is still far from a first tier NFL corner. Clearly he disagrees and seems to be expecting a monster contract this year, in spite of still having one year left on his eminently fair rookie deal. We can always play hardball with him, but if his agent convinces him it is in his best interest to scorch the Earth and holdout for a new deal at all costs, well, I just don't think you can justify giving him 50 million dollars.

I think Vinnie would jump to move him for a second, although I think it's going to be tough to find a partner. I just hope he doesn't panic and ship him off for a fourth rounder or something. Hell, maybe we can trade him and a second to Denver for Tatum Bell:)

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

^^ me and me CCR and white russian 7 in the mornin agree wit you . . wait that might not be a good thing but what you say about not getting value for rogers seeems true to me and the CCR and the white russian . . nothing shot of a 1st round pick would be equal value to me and given that we wont see that kinda offer we might aswell just keep te man . . . yeah im stuck in a stuppor. might swell just get up and shower since irs 8 in the mornin.

go skins!!!

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Paintrain;516399]A couple points on trading Rogers-
1. He's not elite, nowhere close. He has terrible hands, has no history of shutting down elite WR-in fact I'd challenge anyone to point out one time he has done such-and isn't feared by coordinators or QB in the league.
2. Despite him being a top 10 pick, he is not in the top 40 in his position. There are dozens of Carlos Rogers out there in the league. He's a guy that won't kill you but won't really help you either. He doesn't change field position for your team, doesn't put points on the board and doesn't do anything 'special'. There are a dozen CB on the free agent market that will be more affordable and represent the same level of play if not better. Losing him is no great loss on the field.
3. He's going into a contract year, is well known to have an excessively high opinion of himself and is going to try to get top CB dollars. We're going to lose him with no compensation next year so it makes sense to get something while we can for him. A 2nd round pick would be a solid value for Rogers.[/quote]

He's proved that he's a very good cb this year and he's coming off a serious knee surgery. My issue w/ him is he falls asleep a couple times every year.

He's going to want big $ no doubt, but we'd rather pay D. Hall (a so called cancer and problem everywhere he's been) top dollars. Hmmm. That doesn't make too much sense to me.

Let's see how things pan out.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=bedlamVR;516446]I have to say I am amazed at some of the stuff JLC publisihes but these two articles are PURE speculation, and it is anoying to see him put his boot in .

I think Springs, Griffin, Taylor and Washington will all be approached about ways they can stay at reduced salaries/roles .

There is a trend for Redskins fans to down play Redskins Players .. Rogers is a very strong CB I would say going on his early form would be our best all round CB .

[b]You want examples of where he was the man ... how about the first Dallas game where he shut down Owens, he went up against the best in the league against the Saints and Cardinals and was up to the job. [/b]Lets not forget he was coming off not one but two knee surgeries .

But people don't want to hear good things about Skins players .[/quote]

That was Springs that was locked on Owens vs. Dallas & against Arizona Fitzgerald had 100+ yds. The Saints were without their top WR in Colston so who did he shut down?

I love hearing good things about Skins players, when they are accurate.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

I doubt we could get a 2nd and a 3rd for Rogers - maybe a 2nd this year and 3rd next... which I would take in a heartbeat. Rogers is a very good corner. The only problem is, there will be plenty of good corners available in free agency, so i'm not sure why anyone would trade with us for him.

That said, if we could trade rogers and replace him with someone like Chris Gamble in free agency, i think it would be well worth it.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

The grass is always greener, until said grass is wearing a Skins jersey. Keep Carlos Rogers. He is a good, young player.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[B]If this move is true [/B]it would be a clear example of why Snyderatto needs to be removed from our FO.
This move would rob from Peter to pay Paul.
In today's pass happy NFL you [B]need [/B]to have three good Cb's.
Plus Springs is nearing the end of his career. Smoot and our other CB's are not very good/reliable. Why in the world would you trade a young, talented CB? Good, young Cb's are hard to come by.
To get an offensive lineman? Other teams (see Ravens) seem to find good offensive in the later rounds.
We need to have a good overall team, with no weakness'. Getting rid of a good player to get another is stupid.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;516489]I doubt we could get a 2nd and a 3rd for Rogers - maybe a 2nd this year and 3rd next... which I would take in a heartbeat. Rogers is a very good corner. The only problem is, there will be plenty of good corners available in free agency, so i'm not sure why anyone would trade with us for him.

That said, if we could trade rogers and replace him with someone like [B]Chris Gamble in free agency[/B], i think it would be well worth it.[/quote]

I keep hearing people suggest Chris Gamble around here. For the record, he has recently signed a [URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/11/28/panthers.gamble.ap/index.html"]lucrative extension[/URL] in Carolina that makes him a Panther until 2014.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=mitch e;516229]If they dont put together a good OL they wont do any better next year.[/quote]

or a DL for that matter as well..they need both....

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

We are stuck again trying to improve our team through free agency and trades, because we traded poorly in the past. We never learn. Here we are again, people planning all of these trades. We need to be patient and build through the draft. We have been on the losing end on most trades lately.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

Don't ignore the 'Champ Bailey' factor here also. Rogers is looking for a very lucrative contract when his expires next year. He feels like he is a top CB, "There are a lot of teams that would give their right arm for me." Someone is going to pay him #1 elite CB money next offseason when we all know he's not that good. We're not going to pay him that kind of money so why not get some value (2nd or 3rd round pick) this offseason? With a large number of FA corners this offseason it's going to be a buyers market, we can replace what Rogers brings (decent #2 CB) at a much cheaper rate over the next 5 years and get an additional pick as well.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Paintrain;516504]Don't ignore the 'Champ Bailey' factor here also. Rogers is looking for a very lucrative contract when his expires next year. He feels like he is a top CB, "There are a lot of teams that would give their right arm for me." Someone is going to pay him #1 elite CB money next offseason when we all know he's not that good. We're not going to pay him that kind of money so why not get some value (2nd or 3rd round pick) this offseason? With a large number of FA corners this offseason it's going to be a buyers market, we can replace what Rogers brings (decent #2 CB) at a much cheaper rate over the next 5 years and get an additional pick as well.[/quote]

That how I see it. I would trade Rogers too if I'm Cerrato. Some desperate teams are going to go after Rogers and give us at least a 3rd maybe a 2nd depending on the team. Rogers is a yong corner who has talent but just cannot hold on to the ball to save his life. Like I've said before that once the Redskins signed Hall, it was only to give him a long term deal and to replace Rogers. Mark my words the SF game was the last time you'll see all [B]4[/B] corners on the field.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Paintrain;516504]Don't ignore the 'Champ Bailey' factor here also. Rogers is looking for a very lucrative contract when his expires next year. He feels like he is a top CB, "There are a lot of teams that would give their right arm for me." Someone is going to pay him #1 elite CB money next offseason when we all know he's not that good. We're not going to pay him that kind of money so why not get some value (2nd or 3rd round pick) this offseason? With a large number of FA corners this offseason it's going to be a buyers market, we can replace what Rogers brings (decent #2 CB) at a much cheaper rate over the next 5 years and get an additional pick as well.[/quote]

Rogers is definitely not worth top dollar. So yes you can't blame the Redskins for throwing a line out there to see what other teams may be willing to give up. I say if someone bites with a 3rd rounder go for it.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Paintrain;516466]That was Springs that was locked on Owens vs. Dallas & against Arizona Fitzgerald had 100+ yds. The Saints were without their top WR in Colston so who did he shut down?

I love hearing good things about Skins players, when they are accurate.[/quote]

Springs locked Owens up in the first half, gave up a TD to Owens on the first possession of the second half, and then left the game. Los shut Owens down for the rest of the game.
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/30/AR2008093002592.html]No Matter His Age, Springs Has Impact - washingtonpost.com[/url]

And Doughty got burned by Fitz, not Rogers. Los had a great game against the Cards (including holding on to an INT).
[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/09/third_quarter.html]A Tie Game after Three - Redskins Insider[/url]

I think letting Rogers go is a mistake, unless he is seeking Champ $$, and we have no choice.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Mattyk72;516513]Rogers is definitely not worth top dollar. So yes you can't blame the Redskins for throwing a line out there to see what other teams may be willing to give up. I say if someone bites with a 3rd rounder go for it.[/quote]

Rogers is worth more than a 3rd rounder.
How many great players have [B]we[/B] drafted in the 3rd round?
Are you serious?

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Paintrain;516504]Don't ignore the 'Champ Bailey' factor here also. Rogers is looking for a very lucrative contract when his expires next year. He feels like he is a top CB, "There are a lot of teams that would give their right arm for me." Someone is going to pay him #1 elite CB money next offseason when we all know he's not that good. We're not going to pay him that kind of money so why not get some value (2nd or 3rd round pick) this offseason? With a large number of FA corners this offseason it's going to be a buyers market, we can replace what Rogers brings (decent #2 CB) at a much cheaper rate over the next 5 years and get an additional pick as well.[/quote]

I'm not sure why this is similar to Champ's situation. We offered him a big extension, and he simply didn't want to play for the Redskins anymore. Can't really blame him since we had just finished up with the joke Spurrier era. We did the next best thing and traded him for Portis, which has worked out pretty well I'd say. If we offered Carlos Rogers anywhere close to the money we offered Champ, he'd be a moron not to take it.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=GMScud;516534]I'm not sure why this is similar to Champ's situation. We offered him a big extension, and he simply didn't want to play for the Redskins anymore. Can't really blame him since we had just finished up with the joke Spurrier era. We did the next best thing and traded him for Portis, which has worked out pretty well I'd say. If we offered Carlos Rogers anywhere close to the money we offered Champ, he'd be a moron not to take it.[/quote]
The parallel is the inability to agree to contract terms. Rogers thinks he is an elite corner and is going to demand elite money, especially if Hall gets a nice extension. Rogers isn't an elite CB so we risk losing him and getting nothing in return next year, therefore it's better to trade him now and get something rather than lose him next year with no compensation.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Defensewins;516533]Rogers is worth more than a 3rd rounder.
How many great players have [B]we[/B] drafted in the 3rd round?
Are you serious?[/quote]

That's how trading works in the NFL, you rarely get what a player is worth.

Do you think there's a team out there willing to part with a 1st or 2nd rounder for Rogers?? Good luck with that.

We'd be lucky to snag a 3rd.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

bryan (cumberland, Md.): Jason Taylor, Brett Farve do you see either returning next year ?

Matt Mosley: (12:15 PM ET ) Taylor's not going back to Washington. I'm pretty certain about that. I bet he'll retire. Favre will drag this out and make a big production -- like he always does.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

I don't buy into this. JLC likes to create drama. He always says that he has a 'source' on the inside. Most of the time that 'source' goes unnamed. And most of the time it comes up bullcrud. Like that Mark Brunnell trade, for example.

If Rogers think he's an elite corner. He needs to learn how to catch a football before he can get paid like one. I mean, he can't even catch a nerf football! And Nerf footballs, as soft as they are, they just fall right into your hands!

Hopefully, Rogers can prove that he can catch next year, so we can overpay him. Hopefully, the next time we're leading the Pittsburgh Steelers 6-zip Rogers will be able to CATCH and then run it in for a quick six. Hopefully, when our team needs a spark and Eli Manning hits him in the chest twice (I think Eli was color blind that game) Rogers will be able to CATCH and make that spark! Then he will get paid.

But what JLC is saying now is just bullcrud! But, it does give me something to talk about, when I should be working, so I can't complain too much.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=GMScud;516496]I keep hearing people suggest Chris Gamble around here. For the record, he has recently signed a [URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/11/28/panthers.gamble.ap/index.html"]lucrative extension[/URL] in Carolina that makes him a Panther until 2014.[/quote]


thanks for the update. I wasnt aware of that.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=EternalEnigma21;516232]carlos is a great cb. he may not have hands but our pass D went downhill when he got demoted. retarded.[/quote]
Exactly, I'd rather not catch interceptions than to allow touchdowns. Granted los got beat a couple times in he 2nd half of the season in his newish role, it happens to every corner.

I'd like to see Hall resigned, but I'm not sure he's the best bet in covering #1 receivers. I guess that's a great shot to get interceptions as the QB will take more risks going to #1, but if the CB also takes more risks, that could be disastrous.

Rogers is definitely our best CB. If we intend on keeping him I'd tell him early and let him know that his hands need to get better in the offseason. Of course he's entering a contract year after next, so he might not have the incentive to do it for us, and will be a free agent rather than trade bait, unless we franchised him.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=GTripp0012;516304]I have a real problem with the way Blache coaches his side of the ball. Basically, he plays favorites. That's bad high school coach crap.
[/quote]

Didn't Blache learn that FROM Williams?

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Defensewins;516501]We are stuck again trying to improve our team through free agency and trades, because we traded poorly in the past. We never learn. Here we are again, people planning all of these trades. We need to be patient and build through the draft. We have been on the losing end on most trades lately.[/quote]
most people are talking about trading for picks

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=tryfuhl;516582]most people are talking about trading for picks[/quote]

Not talking much value here.
Give up on a young, talented CB in the prime of his career.....for a 3rd round pick? I would not do it.
We should not panic to get draft picks.
Our FO paniced and made the mistake of trading for Jason Taylor. When it turned out we would have been just fine with out him.
Now they want to panic again and make another stupid trade.
What are those guys smoking.

For those suddenly selective money conscious folks: How about cutting Jason Taylor and his $8m a year salary and sign Carlos Rogers and Dante Hall. We would be set at CB for 4 to 5 years.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Defensewins;516596]Not talking much value here.
Give up on a young, talented CB in the prime of his career.....for a 3rd round pick? I would not do it.
We should not panic to get draft picks.
Our FO paniced and made the mistake of trading for Jason Taylor. When it turned out we would have been just fine with out him.
Now they want to panic again and make another stupid trade.
What are those guys smoking.

For those suddenly selective money conscious folks: How about cutting Jason Taylor and his $8m a year salary and sign Carlos Rogers and Dante Hall. We would be set at CB for 4 to 5 years.[/quote]

I agree 100% with you on this.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=cpayne5;516600]I agree 100% with you on this.[/quote]

right, let him play out the contract, and don't you get compensatory picks when your FAs are signed anyway? If he gets a big contract, won't we get something?

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

The other thing that isn't being mentioned is that, unless the owners agree to a new deal with the union, Carlos Rogers doesn't actually hit the market after this year. Sure, his contract with us expires, but he's only going to have 5 professional seasons, meaning that we still hold his rights through restricted free agency.

Just because Jason LaCanfora doesn't realize this doesn't mean it's not true. Rogers is not going anywhere.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=BrunellMVP?;516601]right, let him play out the contract, and don't you get compensatory picks when your FAs are signed anyway? If he gets a big contract, won't we get something?[/quote]

Yeah, maybe a comp pick at the end of the 4th round. Hmm, 2nd round pick now, end of the 4th round pick next year. You decide.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

thats retarted. DONNOT TRADE CARLOS ROGERS! That would be a terrible move. Id like to see Rogers, Hall, & Springs all return. we need them all...weve seen that this team needs DB depth every year....

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

For the record, I'm not saying whether or not a player can be an elite cornerback if teams do not fear throwing at him, which is definately the case with Rogers' team leading 100+ targets. But his coverage numbers are as good as ANYONE in the league. The very best of the best.

So regardless of whether not QBs fear him, no one can argue that we aren't a better defense when QBs are foolishly throwing at him.

I don't know whether or not he'll ever be able to become a turnover machine. I do know that our pass defense without him is pretty awful. Way closer to 2006 than is comfortable.

It's a flat out insane idea that we'd get a deal worthy of trading Carlos Rogers. He's 26.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

And I think people not fearing throwing at Rogers is very key to DeAngelo Hall's success. If you'll remember, the fact that QBs really feared Nnamdi Asomugha is how Hall's lack of cover skills first got exploited. If QBs want to throw 8 passes a game at Rogers, Hall looks much, much better on the other side.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=GTripp0012;516653]And I think people not fearing throwing at Rogers is very key to DeAngelo Hall's success. If you'll remember, the fact that QBs really feared Nnamdi Asomugha is how Hall's lack of cover skills first got exploited. If QBs want to throw 8 passes a game at Rogers, Hall looks much, much better on the other side.[/quote]

solid break-downs