Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=irish;516919] His numbers show he's the lesser QB because he has lesser numbers than Cassell[/quote]

[COLOR="Red"][SIZE="4"]What? [/SIZE][/COLOR]

Cassel only managed to put up [COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="4"]slightly[/SIZE][/COLOR] better numbers then Campbell yet Cassel was handed the keys to one of, if not the most potent passing attacks NFL history.

Follow me here.

If Jason can put up nearly the same numbers with a far less talented supporting cast then Cassel.
Doesn't it makes sense that Jason would do better with Cassel's supporting cast?

:food-smil

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=skinsfan69;516934]People crack me up with this silly system talk. Brady is a great QB, end of discussion. There are not that many QB's in the NFL that can sit back in the pocket and beat you by just throwing it 40-50 times a game. He is one of the very few that can do it. He can just sit back in the pocket and pick a defense apart. The guy won 3 SB's with Deion Brach, Troy Brown and David Givens as his WR's. Then when he gets Moss and Welker and puts up numbers that may never be broken. Need I say more??[/quote]

Yeah I agree. He was getting it done and winning SB's with a bunch of no-name WRs.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=skinsfan69;516932]Not sure about Cassell but JC probably led the NFL in passes that traveled 10 yards or less. He should complete 65% to 70% IMO.[/quote]

You don't think Cassell threw a ton of short passes to Welker??

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=celts32;516933]Cassel has been in the league 4 years and got to watch the same exact offense all those years. JC has watched 3 different offenses in his time in the league. It's not a fair comparison is all i am saying. Actually Matt Ryan's season makes JC look bad because he just got in the league and played well imediately.[/quote]

Ryan had a great season. But, again its so difficult to compare QB unless they are in the exact same circumstanes. Bring Ryan here and put Jason there. I think you would see the Jason we saw in the first half of the season. The Campbell that Jaws was considering for league MVP.
Look at Chad Pennington its all about situation.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=Mattyk72;516939]You don't think Cassell threw a ton of short passes to Welker??[/quote]

109 to be exact. They don't call Wes Welker "The Slot Machine" for nothing.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=Mattyk72;516939]You don't think Cassell threw a ton of short passes to Welker??[/quote]

I do think he threw a lot of short stuff. I just didn't see enough of their games to make a judgement on him. But the games I did see he looked pretty damn good for a guy that hadn't started a game since high school. He wasn't as razor sharp as Brady but the dude hasn't played so I think with time he can be a damn good starter. If you ask me he's just as good as JC.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=skinsfan69;516944]I do think he threw a lot of short stuff. I just didn't see enough of their games to make a judgement on him. But the games I did see he looked pretty damn good for a guy that hadn't started a game since high school. He wasn't as razor sharp as Brady but the dude hasn't played so I think with time he can be a damn good starter. [B]If you ask me he's just as good as JC.[/B][/quote]

Or he could be the Derek Anderson of 2008. The jury is still out IMO, but thus far Cassell looks very promising. Reagrdless, he's gonna get paid big time.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

The only thing this proves is Cassell has what it takes to play in a working system. JC has not had the oportunity to play in such as a Skin. Bring Cassell here and I doubt he could do any better than JC.

In fact it's sad in a way that JC has had to play on our team. I believe we thus far have held back greatness. Not that I want to see him go.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

Cassell is a good QB working in a superior system. Bringing him to Washington won't really help us IMO. Different system and less talent for him to work with - not a great scenario.

Besides, JC is becoming the team leader. I was considering starting a thread on this but i'll just mention here that CP effectively removed himself as the team leader w/ his antics this season. This is just the way I see it. Meanwhile JC took a beating all season (sacked 38 times) and continued to stand tall in the pocket. He started moving the ball whether there was a downfield option, using his legs. And he's showing more personality/leadership now than ever. By opening day '09 JC is the unquestionable leader of this team.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

No Joke.

he;s only gonna get better

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=30gut;516935][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="4"]What? [/SIZE][/COLOR]

Cassel only managed to put up [COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="4"]slightly[/SIZE][/COLOR] better numbers then Campbell yet Cassel was handed the keys to one of, if not the most potent passing attacks NFL history.

Follow me here.

If Jason can put up nearly the same numbers with a far less talented supporting cast then Cassel.
Doesn't it makes sense that Jason would do better with Cassel's supporting cast?

:food-smil[/quote]

He was handed the keys but he didnt wreck the car. In fact he drove the car to a nice finish. People dont seem to take into account that he could have played bad and not won games but he didnt screw up and led the team to 11 wins in his first season as QB. Does JC have 11 wins total yet?

If JC was put into NE this year they would never have won 11 games because JC isnt accurate enough (his accuracy numbers are worse than MC throwing almost exclusively dink & dump passes) to make NE's O roll. He would bring NE down.

If MC played for the Skins this year I doubt he would have done much better than JC because the Skins just arent that good a team. With a good team MC will 10 times out of 10 end up getting the team to a better record than JC.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

JC has 16 career wins, if you're gonna bash him at least take the time to look things up.

His completion % was slightly less than Cassell's. I don't see where there's a huge difference between either guy. I don't understand how any definitive statements can be made about how JC would play with a NE type of cast around him. We won't know for sure until he actually gets that chance.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=irish;516970]He was handed the keys but he didnt wreck the car. In fact he drove the car to a nice finish. People dont seem to take into account that he could have played bad and not won games but he didnt screw up and led the team to 11 wins in his first season as QB. Does JC have 11 wins total yet?

If JC was put into NE this year they would never have won 11 games because JC isnt accurate enough (his accuracy numbers are worse than MC throwing almost exclusively dink & dump passes) to make NE's O roll. He would bring NE down.

If MC played for the Skins this year I doubt he would have done much better than JC because the Skins just arent that good a team. With a good team MC will 10 times out of 10 end up getting the team to a better record than JC.[/quote]

If Cassell was on the Skins this year, he would have done no better than JC? But if JC was on NE they "never" would have won 11 games? That doesn't make a ton of sense to me. If MC is so much better, wouldn't he have won a few more games for us? As was pointed out earlier in this thread, Brady won 3 Super Bowls with the likes of Troy Brown, David Givens, and Deion Branch, and had a 30 something Corey Dillon running the ball. It's not like he had a star studded cast during that 4 season tear.

NE had the most team rushing yards in about 20 years this season. Belicheck wisely adjusted his game plan to help out the young kid. And NE didn't throw a lot of vertical stuff either. Sure, the occasional deep shot to R.Moss because he can jump up and go get anything, but their offense was far from vertical this season - see Wes Welker's 109 catches, most of which were dinks.

All that, and MC had a completion % less than one point better than JC.

You mean to tell me if the Redskins swapped receiving corps with NE that JC's numbers wouldn't look a lot better, and Cassell's wouldn't look worse? I'm not buying that for one second.

NE has much better receiving options and an offense that has been fully installed for years.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=GMScud;516975][B]If Cassell was on the Skins this year, he would have done no better than JC? But if JC was on NE they "never" would have won 11 games? That doesn't make a ton of sense to me.[/B] If MC is so much better, wouldn't he have won a few more games for us? As was pointed out earlier in this thread, Brady won 3 Super Bowls with the likes of Troy Brown, David Givens, and Deion Branch, and had a 30 something Corey Dillon running the ball. It's not like he had a star studded cast during that 4 season tear.

NE had the most team rushing yards in about 20 years this season. Belicheck wisely adjusted his game plan to help out the young kid. And NE didn't throw a lot of vertical stuff either. Sure, the occasional deep shot to R.Moss because he can jump up and go get anything, but their offense was far from vertical this season - see Wes Welker's 109 catches, most of which were dinks. All that, and MC had a completion % less than one point better than JC.[/quote]

It makes sense if you're hell bent on bashing JC.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=Mattyk72;516972]JC has 16 career wins, if you're gonna bash him at least take the time to look things up.

His completion % was slightly less than Cassell's. I don't see where there's a huge difference between either guy. I don't understand how any definitive statements can be made about how JC would play with a NE type of cast around him. We won't know for sure until he actually gets that chance.[/quote]

It was a question as to how many wins he had, hence the question mark.

NE would never draft JC (let alone give up draft pick for him) because their front office is smart enough to recognize that he's not a pro style QB. There isnt a huge difference but there is a difference (especially the TD passes) and with an O that almost never threw a pass deeper that 20 yds its hard to get excited about what JC can do. Even Sonny said Sat night on Redskins Report that JC has never shown any sign or spark that he can be great and that concerned him. Right now the Skins dont have any better option at QB so I see no reason to change but I stand by my prediction that JC wont be the starter in 2010.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=GMScud;516975]If Cassell was on the Skins this year, he would have done no better than JC? But if JC was on NE they "never" would have won 11 games? That doesn't make a ton of sense to me. If MC is so much better, wouldn't he have won a few more games for us? As was pointed out earlier in this thread, Brady won 3 Super Bowls with the likes of Troy Brown, David Givens, and Deion Branch, and had a 30 something Corey Dillon running the ball. It's not like he had a star studded cast during that 4 season tear.

NE had the most team rushing yards in about 20 years this season. Belicheck wisely adjusted his game plan to help out the young kid. And NE didn't throw a lot of vertical stuff either. Sure, the occasional deep shot to R.Moss because he can jump up and go get anything, but their offense was far from vertical this season - see Wes Welker's 109 catches, most of which were dinks.

All that, and MC had a completion % less than one point better than JC.

You mean to tell me if the Redskins swapped receiving corps with NE that JC's numbers wouldn't look a lot better, and Cassell's wouldn't look worse? I'm not buying that for one second.

NE has much better receiving options and an offense that has been fully installed for years.[/quote]

If Wash & NE swapped receiving corps I think MC's would go up and JC's would go down because MC would throw more short passes which I think he would complete a bunch of. JC would likely throw deeper more often and he just isnt good at that so IMO it possible his % would go down.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=irish;516978]If Wash & NE swapped receiving corps I think MC's would go up and JC's would go down because MC would throw more short passes which I think he would complete a bunch of. JC would likely throw deeper more often and he just isnt good at that so IMO it possible his % would go down.[/quote]

That's funny to me.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=irish;516978]If Wash & NE swapped receiving corps I think MC's would go up and JC's would go down because MC would throw more short passes which I think he would complete a bunch of. JC would likely throw deeper more often and he just isnt good at that so IMO it possible his % would go down.[/quote]

Wow!

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

does anyone remember a guy named Doug Williams? Remember what happened when he became a Redskin with the best system in the NFL? Remember what he did in Tampa?

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=44ever;516980]Wow![/quote]

Not much else to say right?

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

You guys need to upgrade your minds to Irish Logic™ 2.0 to comprehend irish wisdom.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=44ever;516981]does anyone remember a guy named Doug Williams? Remember what happened when he became a Redskin with the best system in the NFL? Remember what he did in Tampa?[/quote]

Great point.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=saden1;516986]You guys need to upgrade your minds to Irish Logic™ 2.0 to comprehend irish wisdom.[/quote]

If he would just change his username to "The Contrarian," it would leave a lot less people befuddled.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

Do you think that the redskins would have made the playoffs last year if jc didnt get hurt?I dont.I defended cambell since he became the starter but we have no chance to win a superbowl with him.A great quarterback makes the rest of the team better.Last year we was struggling on offense until his injury and collins sparked this team and took the 8th man off the line of scrimage.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=skinsqc;516990]Do you think that the redskins would have made the playoffs last year if jc didnt get hurt?I dont.I defended cambell since he became the starter but we have no chance to win a superbowl with him.A great quarterback makes the rest of the team better.Last year we was struggling on offense until his injury and collins sparked this team and took the 8th man off the line of scrimage.[/quote]

The stats, with the exception of the TD/INT ratio( JC is far superior) have JC at a level just above Gus Frerotte. Sometime around the midpoint of next season or just before JC will finally surpass Gus in all time Skins passing yardage, but will probably have to wait til 2010 to beat him in TD passes, unless we really get our shit together on offense and he can get it going.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=44ever;516981]does anyone remember a guy named Doug Williams? Remember what happened when he became a Redskin with the best system in the NFL? Remember what he did in Tampa?[/quote]

Most QB's are only as good as the players around him and DW is a classic example of this. He was never the type that could carry a team like Elway. But he did lead TB to a NFC championship and did play well down there. But with The Posse and the best line in football a lot of QB's could've come here ( during Gibbs one) and played well. Imagine what Marino could've done under Gibbs one? We almost drafted him too. He would've sat behind those lines and Monk, Clark and Sanders might have all gone to the HOF.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

Matt Cassel had several factors working in his favor:

1. New England has an excellent O-line and Pro Bowl caliber WRs.
2. He essentially had 3 years to learn the offense as Brady's understudy.
3. New England played perhaps the weakest schedule ever for a defending conference champion (they had the AFC West and NFC West in addition to their own division

Somebody will probably give him decent money to start, but I don't ever see him developing into an upper echelon starting QB.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=SouperMeister;517186]Matt Cassel had several factors working in his favor:

1. New England has an excellent O-line and Pro Bowl caliber WRs.
2. He essentially had 3 years to learn the offense as Brady's understudy.
3.[B] New England played perhaps the weakest schedule ever for a defending conference champion (they had the AFC West and NFC West in addition to their own division[/B]

Somebody will probably give him decent money to start, but I don't ever see him developing into an upper echelon starting QB.[/quote]

That's a great point that hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread. The west coast divisions were garbage this year.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

Cassel needs to go wherever McDaniels ends up or he'll be average or below.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

Bill Belicheat will brain wash Cassel to stay, just like he brain washed Randy Moss to give up big $$ in free agency, and the same way he brain washed Brady to take a hometown discount.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

I guess Belicheat was not able to brain wash him that much...

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3809444]Sources: New England Patriots to put franchise tag on Matt Cassel - ESPN[/url]

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=Ruhskins;517200]Bill Belicheat will brain wash Cassel to stay, just like he brain washed Randy Moss to give up big $$ in free agency, [B]and the same way he brain washed Brady to take a hometown discount[/B].[/quote]Isn't Brady from Northern California?

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;518000]Isn't Brady from Northern California?[/quote]

I heard the term "hometown discount" from Michael Wilbon when referring to the fact that Brady takes in less money in order for his team to be able to go out other players (i.e. Randy Moss, Welker, Adalius Thomas, etc., etc.). I guess it is referred as a "hometown discount" b/c Brady is a veteran of the team? I dunno, the term just stuck with me.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=Ruhskins;517200]Bill Belicheat will brain wash Cassel to stay, just like he brain washed Randy Moss to give up big $$ in free agency, and the same way he brain washed Brady to take a hometown discount.[/quote]

So I guess Bill B. brainwashes everyone? No one in NE has a freakin brain for themselves?? Please...

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=skinsfan69;518106]So I guess Bill B. brainwashes everyone? No one in NE has a freakin brain for themselves?? Please...[/quote]

Dude, is a freaking joke? What are you a Pats fan? Sheesh.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

We wont get Cassell.
im not gonna make up excuses for JC hes had his good and bad moments. This year will make or break him. I think Colts good enough to be a backup policy as long as we keep our run game on a high level thru the season.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

cassell is a beast

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

Looks like if you want Matt Cassell you are going to need to give the Patriots 2 1st rounders. Like they need more draft picks. You've got to admire the Pats.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

I think some team might take the bait. 2 first rounders for a quality QB? Some team will.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

^^ it will be interesting to see what happens. the pats put up a big raise, lets see if someone calls em on it.

the pats were in a kind of odd predictament to have to franchise tag their back-up qb (see what good drafting does). it gives them insurance on brady and guarantees a heavy return if another team wants him, plus they got cap room if noone tries to grab Cassel.