Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=schndr_tdd;517321]Hes smoking pot! Thats why hes slow.lol.COLT BRENNAN !!!!!At least he will try to throw 25 or 30 touchdown passes......[/quote]


Hey now that is an original idea to the JC stuff!!!!!! Funny

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=WaldSkins;517307]Graham Harrell would look nice in B&G[/quote]

Uh........No

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=bedlamVR;517376]Okay I am sorry about the last post but it needed to be said .. I do think some of the attitude towards 17 is because of the colour of his skin .

I am just fustrated with every single message board and Redskins blog being filled with the same drivel . He holds the ball too long he locks onto one reciever etc etc

I have heard some very compelling evidence on both sides of the arguments but so many of the anti Campbell posters would rather be right so perpetuate the myth rather than actually look at what is happening .

Give the team time ... Give Campbell time and we will see who is right .

And btw I think you can track the teams woes on offense back to when Samuels knee really started to bother him (Steelers game I think ) just a thought[/quote]


When the hell did race become a factor? God damn man. People ripped Gus, Ramsey, and Brunell to shreds in any Skins forum when they were around and not getting the job done. Face it dude, we all want a true franchise QB ala the Mannings, Brees, Brady, you name it, and JC is just an average QB. Do you think him being black means he shouldn't be under any criticism for any shortcomings? He will get his chance next season to prove his critics wrong, and if he doesn't step it up, we simply won't resign him ala Frerotte. You obviously haven't been a Skins blogger for that long, but every QB we have had since the dawning of the net has been ripped on and dissected on his foibles. JC is just the current guy on the list. Skins fans are looking for their next Sammy, Sonny, or even Joe T. It is simple as that.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=bedlamVR;517376]Okay I am sorry about the last post[B] but it needed to be said [/B].. I do think some of the attitude towards 17 is because of the colour of his skin . [/quote]

No, it didn't need to be said. The fans on this site deserve more than a simplistic race card slap. We all bleed Burgundy and Gold, and love the players that we see as winners. JC is the qb and is going to get a larger accolade when we win, and a larger blame when we lose. That was a dumb sad comment. (ok for polity i will add - IMO)

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

I think any talks about the QB position should only be about the development of Jason Campbell, and having for once true continuity in the passing game and offense in general. I say this, b/c I believe this is the first year we're going to have continuity. I feel that Gibbs never quite developed Campbell (coach didn't seem to care much for young QBs, hence Brunell), brought in a whole new offense with Saunders, and it seems that there was some type of friction between Saunders' and Gibbs' input on offense. So I feel that while JC played for Gibbs, there was no continuity; then Gibbs left, in comes Zorn (another change).

Other than giving JC a second year and having true continuity, what are the options?

- Colt Brennan: NO. If you put in a rookie QB, you might as well turn the team into rebuilding mode. I don't think we have the personnel to pull off what the Ravens are doing this season with a rook QB, and I don't think Brennan can pull a Matt Ryan.

- Free Agent QBs: Well here's your list of 2009 FA QB (Warner, Cassel, Garcia, Grossman, Kyle Boller, Chaz Batch, Kerry Collins, JP Losman, and Patrick Ramsey). I don't think any of these players are elite enough to come and make a difference. And bringing a new QB kills continuity.

- Trade for a QB? That's not going to happen.

So the options outside of Jason Campbell are not that great. I think a reasonable fan would hope the following for this offseason
- Offensive line addressed, emphasis on pass protection in training camp
- Maybe better coaching at the WR position?
- Hoping that true continuity between Zorn year 1 and Zorn year 2 helps Campbell's development into an elite QB.

Campbell had good passing stats, had better accuracy, and did not turn the ball over during the first 8 games of the season when our o-line was protecting him a little bit and Portis was healthy and running the ball well. I think the team and the fans should give JC one more year to show us that he can lead this team into the playoffs; especially if the team addresses the issues that a lot of us have been pointing out in offense (pass protection/o-line in general, WRs getting open, better play calling?, etc., etc.)

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=bedlamVR;517371]I know 99% of the fans have made their minds up on Campbell regardless of what is played out on the field .

I have read their arguments and the though out counter arguments and seen Campbell play every game this year ... and yes he has had bad plays along with good plays . Along with a bunch of other players ...

and to be honest, after looking at everything. I can come up with just one conculsion and it is not said lightly ..its not Campbell it maybe something wrong with some of the fans ... .. I just cannot help but think if Campbell was white ... then we would not be looking for his replacement ...I know they would not be calling for some guy drafted in the 6th round who has shown nothing in an NFL game ... comments about him being dumb and his attitude because he is from the south just sound I don't know like some of you are posting on here with pointy white hats and burning crosses ...[/quote]

#1. I never said anything about him being black.
#2. I said "he has that laid back Southern attitude."
#3. I used Favre as an example. Which means I compared JC to Favre. I would think that is a good thing....whether black or white or anyother color.
#4. I'll tell you what pisses me off and that's people like you who wear their pointy black hats always trying to turn [B]everything[/B] into a racial issue cause you have nothing better to do in your life but to try and stir animosity.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

Also keep in mind your kinda barking up the wrong tree with the whole racial issue when the Skins were the first NFL football team to have a black QB take the team to a SB and win it and we as fans are proud of that fact.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=bedlamVR;517371]I know 99% of the fans have made their minds up on Campbell regardless of what is played out on the field .

I have read their arguments and the though out counter arguments and seen Campbell play every game this year ... and yes he has had bad plays along with good plays . Along with a bunch of other players ...

and to be honest, after looking at everything. I can come up with just one conculsion and it is not said lightly [b]..its not Campbell it maybe something wrong with some of the fans ... .. I just cannot help but think if Campbell was white ...[/b] then we would not be looking for his replacement ...I know they would not be calling for some guy drafted in the 6th round who has shown nothing in an NFL game ... comments about him being dumb and his attitude because he is from the south just sound I don't know like some of you are posting on here with pointy white hats and burning crosses ...[/quote]
Well, I think it's naive to say that there is no element of this with some fans, it'd be hard to paint with too broad of a brush.

There is a certain undertone with comments from some folks that is consistent with the historical "criticisms" of black QB (too slow, can't read defenses, not smart enough to pick up the offense, can't adjust to defenses, etc) I think most of us want to see a winner and a leader under center regardless of what he looks like.

That being said, to firmly entrench oneself in either camp of he definitely is or definitely isn't being scrutinized based largely on skin color is equally ignorant.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

Wait Campbells black?

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=SBXVII;517406]Also keep in mind your kinda barking up the wrong tree with the whole racial issue when the Skins were the first NFL football team to have a black QB take the team to a SB and win it and we as fans are proud of that fact.[/quote]

The redskins were also the last team include black players - Bobby Mitchell in 1964 - proud of that fact ?

Look I am not saying everyone who criticizes Campbell is racist some of the comments made about him are fair, but so many are not and are contradictory and illogical .

Yes we have ripped Brunell in the past, Ramsey not so much, but much of the talk about Brunell was based on his age and diminishing skills, not about his origin .

You didn't have people wishing a career ending injury on him as I have seen someone post on ES about Campbell . ( And this was at the beginning of the season) . I hear that Campbell is slow witted, cannot read NFL defenses, locks onto one reciever, yet he only threw 6 interceptions and completed 62.2 % of his passes how do those facts hold together ?

All he does is dump of to backs ? Okay then how come Moss was 12th in the league (8th in the NFC) Just behind Owens in yards going over 1000 yards for only the third time in his career ?

Cooley ranked first in the NFC in terms of receptions with 83, and second in terms of yards ...both career highs.

Both Cooley and Moss were averaging over 10 yards per reception ....

Compare Campbell to other NFL Qbs- like with like is that too much to ask . Ask any Redskin fan if they would trade Ben Roethlisberger for Campbell most would say yes in a heart beat.... but look at Ben Roethlisberger ... a good NFL QB ? Campbell on a lesser team out strips him in % completion, interceptions/TD ratio and QB rating ... Ben Roethlisberger has better/Comparable tools in Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Heath Miller . Okay the Pittsburg line was porus and he got sacked alot and he fumbled 14 times loosing the ball 7 times but so was ours . (Campbell fumbled 6 times loosing 1) ....

You can point to Qbs with better stats ... Drew Brees is a particular example . Brees throws for a lot of yards, lots of TDs but a lot of Interceptions the saints finished 8-8 and Brees in a lot of games I saw (particulary Saints- Panthers game) did more harm than good to his team with untimely turnovers ( Had it not been for the play of Bush on Special teams the Panthers would have destroyed the Saints)

The thing that frustrates me most is the impatience of fans with Campbell . If the Colts fans had been as impatient with Payton Manning, or the Cowboys fans been so unforgiving of Troy Aikman when both players lead their teams to 1-15 finishes history would be so much different . I am not saying Campbell is great ... he has areas to improve in ... everyone does .

It is not just me saying Campbell has promise .. The fact that some NFL commentators were talking about Campbell as MVP . These are the ones who watch and play the sport for a living and they see something in the guy... Rick Snider went out of his way to praise Campbells gutsy play in the 49ers game ....equally the fact the Redskins are not rushing to tie him up to an extension says he is not perfect ..

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

Campbell seems like a very good person & me being a die hard Redskins fan I wish him nothing but the best. His line to give him more time so he can prove that he is a big time QB.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=44ever;517292]as stated in many threads Campbell is in his 3rd scheme in 5 years. His confusion reflects this IMO

I think we we all see the same thing and our best option is to give the current system a little more time

Just as frustrated as you are[/quote]

That excuse just doesnt hold water. Matt Ryan is literally a rookie and had no problem picking up his new system and reviving a team lietrally from the dead. If JC could do it he'd have done it by now. Sonny hasnt seen any flashes of brilliance (and neither have most of us) and its time to face the reality that JC just isnt an NFL QB.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=SBXVII;517406]Also keep in mind your kinda barking up the wrong tree with the whole racial issue when the Skins were the first NFL football team to have a black QB take the team to a SB and win it and we as fans are proud of that fact.[/quote]

Its a welll known fact that the Skins were the last team to allow black players on the team (that's a big reason why there are so many Cowboy fans in DC as the Cowboys were one of the first to integrate). It took Bobby Kennedy to tell WP Marshall that either he integrate or he cant play in DC's new stadium.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

20 yrs ago we won a sb with a black qb
40 yrs ago we were the last to integrate
60 yrs ago there was no integration.
guess what, all of this is HISTORY. can we please focus on the team at hand. Is ANYONE watching a football game and thinking race has any bearing???
please ... move on from it already

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=irish;517429]That excuse just doesnt hold water. Matt Ryan is literally a rookie and had no problem picking up his new system and reviving a team lietrally from the dead. If JC could do it he'd have done it by now. Sonny hasnt seen any flashes of brilliance (and neither have most of us) and its time to face the reality that JC just isnt an NFL QB.[/quote]

1) Matt Ryan's system isn't the WCO. He also had an MVP caliber RB performing injury free and consistently all season

2) "JC just isn't an NFL QB." Ummm, wrong. Every QB in the league on a 53 man roster is an "NFL QB." JC could start for plenty of teams in the league, let alone be a very good backup.

What about the Redskins do you actually like?

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=bedlamVR;517419]The redskins were also the last team include black players - Bobby Mitchell in 1964 - proud of that fact ?

Look I am not saying everyone who criticizes Campbell is racist some of the comments made about him are fair, but so many are not and are contradictory and illogical .

Yes we have ripped Brunell in the past, Ramsey not so much, but much of the talk about Brunell was based on his age and diminishing skills, not about his origin .

You didn't have people wishing a career ending injury on him as I have seen someone post on ES about Campbell . ( And this was at the beginning of the season) . I hear that Campbell is slow witted, cannot read NFL defenses, locks onto one reciever, yet he only threw 6 interceptions and completed 62.2 % of his passes how do those facts hold together ?

All he does is dump of to backs ? Okay then how come Moss was 12th in the league (8th in the NFC) Just behind Owens in yards going over 1000 yards for only the third time in his career ?

Cooley ranked first in the NFC in terms of receptions with 83, and second in terms of yards ...both career highs.

Both Cooley and Moss were averaging over 10 yards per reception ....

Compare Campbell to other NFL Qbs- like with like is that too much to ask . Ask any Redskin fan if they would trade Ben Roethlisberger for Campbell most would say yes in a heart beat.... but look at Ben Roethlisberger ... a good NFL QB ? Campbell on a lesser team out strips him in % completion, interceptions/TD ratio and QB rating ... Ben Roethlisberger has better/Comparable tools in Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Heath Miller . Okay the Pittsburg line was porus and he got sacked alot and he fumbled 14 times loosing the ball 7 times but so was ours . (Campbell fumbled 6 times loosing 1) ....

You can point to Qbs with better stats ... Drew Brees is a particular example . Brees throws for a lot of yards, lots of TDs but a lot of Interceptions the saints finished 8-8 and Brees in a lot of games I saw (particulary Saints- Panthers game) did more harm than good to his team with untimely turnovers ( Had it not been for the play of Bush on Special teams the Panthers would have destroyed the Saints)

The thing that frustrates me most is the impatience of fans with Campbell . If the Colts fans had been as impatient with Payton Manning, or the Cowboys fans been so unforgiving of Troy Aikman when both players lead their teams to 1-15 finishes history would be so much different . I am not saying Campbell is great ... he has areas to improve in ... everyone does .

It is not just me saying Campbell has promise .. The fact that some NFL commentators were talking about Campbell as MVP . These are the ones who watch and play the sport for a living and they see something in the guy... Rick Snider went out of his way to praise Campbells gutsy play in the 49ers game ....equally the fact the Redskins are not rushing to tie him up to an extension says he is not perfect ..[/quote]

Now had you come out like this in your first statement I would not have thought of you as a reverse biggot. I apologize. True the Skins were one of the last to bring black players to it's team. but please keep in mind this is a different era...this is not the 60's and we don't have seperate bathrooms and the majority of fan's and owners do not look at black players as second class citizens anymore.

I'm also not nieve enought to believe white biggotry is still not happening. It is those white ignorant assholes that make the rest of the white population look bad. ....and that's how you have to look at them as ignorant a-holes and move on. Don't hold conversations with them and don't try to change their minds cause you won't. Also keep in mind the majority of the biggotry comes from their up bringing. Parents passing on ideals to their kids. I'm not trying to find an excuse for them cause everyone is their own person and can use their minds. I'm sure all our parents passed on traits to us that others find either noble or terrible.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=GMScud;517437]1) Matt Ryan's system isn't the WCO. He also had an MVP caliber RB performing injury free and consistently all season

2) "JC just isn't an NFL QB." Ummm, wrong. Every QB in the league on a 53 man roster is an "NFL QB." JC could start for plenty of teams in the league, let alone be a very good backup.

What about the Redskins do you actually like?[/quote]

Hey GM, perhaps I'm wrong but I thought the WCO was supposed to be the easiest to learn and the fastest. It has only a few to a hanful of basic formations that all the other plays develope from. I thought Gibbs system was supposed to be the hardest do to all the different base formations and motions.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=GMScud;517437]1) Matt Ryan's system isn't the WCO. He also had an MVP caliber RB performing injury free and consistently all season

2) "JC just isn't an NFL QB." Ummm, wrong. Every QB in the league on a 53 man roster is an "NFL QB." JC could start for plenty of teams in the league, let alone be a very good backup.

What about the Redskins do you actually like?[/quote]

Well said GMScud. And I might add the system was new to Ryan not his entire Offense.

Oh and, Let's keep it Football!

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=irish;517429]That excuse just doesnt hold water. Matt Ryan is literally a rookie and had no problem picking up his new system and reviving a team lietrally from the dead. If JC could do it he'd have done it by now. Sonny hasnt seen any flashes of brilliance (and neither have most of us) and its time to face the reality that JC just isnt an NFL QB.[/quote]

Comparing apples and oranges.
Look i like Matt Ryan but put Campbell on the Falcons and IMO you would get similiar if not better production then Ryan.

Did you stop to compare their situations?

Matt Ryan has a [COLOR="Olive"]veteran OC and playcaller in Mike Mularkey. Mularkey runs a vertical play-action heavy passing attack[/COLOR], as opposed to JC who is in the 1st year of the WCO which takes at 3 years to master JC has a [COLOR="DarkRed"]1st time playcaller[/COLOR] Zorn and a [COLOR="DarkRed"]1st time OC [/COLOR] Sherman Smith (who is new to the WCO himself.)

Matt Ryan has been only been sacked [COLOR="Olive"]17 times he's the 8th least sacked QB in the NFL[/COLOR]. Campbell has been [COLOR="DarkRed"]sacked 38 times tied for 4th most.[/COLOR]

Falcons have the #2 ranked rushing offense in the NFL which [COLOR="Olive"]drives their play-action heavy passing attack[/COLOR]. Redskins have the 8th ranked rushing offense but [COLOR="DarkRed"]the WCO doesn't feature alot of play-action[/COLOR].

Having Mike Mularkey on staff is IMHO the number one reason for Ryan's success.

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]Mike Mularkey comes to the Falcons with a vast amount of coaching and playing experience in the NFL, which includes two years as a Head Coach (Buffalo Bills) and two stints as an Offensive Coordinator — one with the Pittsburgh Steelers (2001–2003), and the other with the Miami Dolphins (2006). He also forged a successfull playing career that spanned nine years in the League as a tight end for the Minnesota Vikings (1983–1988) and Pittsburgh Steelers (1989–1991).[/COLOR]

[url=http://www.atlantafalcons.com/People/Coaches/Mike_Mularkey.aspx]Atlanta Falcons | People | Mike Mularkey[/url]

*Also they have a fulltime QB coach in Bill Musgrave. Zorn is JC's QB coach which is great, but Zorn is also the HC and therefore can't give JC fulltime attention therefore Zorn relies on 1st time NFL assistant Chris Meidt (Div. II HC) to help out with QB coach duties.


Not exactly comparing like with like huh?

Also, JC has had a good season under adverse circumstances.
Look at the numbers:
Jason Campbell WAS QB 315 506 62.3 31.6 3,245 6.4 202.8 13 6 162 32.0 67T 34 3 38 84.3

[COLOR="Magenta"][SIZE="5"]And if you can't see it in the numbers listen to the experts:[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[url=http://search.espn.go.com/jason-campbell/audio/7]Jason Campbell - Audio - ESPN[/url]

ESPN Ron Jaworski was considering JC for league MVP during the 1st half of the season.

Yet, despite all this: [quote]JC just isnt an NFL QB[/quote]

Instead of saying JC isn't good.
Just say the truth.
Despite how good JC is.... [B][I][SIZE="3"]You [/SIZE][/I][/B]don't like him.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=SBXVII;517440]Hey GM, [B]perhaps I'm wrong but I thought the WCO was supposed to be the easiest to learn and the fastest.[/B] It has only a few to a hanful of basic formations that all the other plays develope from. I thought Gibbs system was supposed to be the hardest do to all the different base formations and motions.[/quote]

According to Matt Hassleback and Donovan McNabb it takes about 3 years to learn it and execute it efficiently.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

I'm not sold on him and have alot of the same concerns but I think he needs one more year in the system then decide. I'm tired of all the excuses for him and its time for him to produce. He now has to earn a new deal.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

Let's put some perspective on this:

Matt Hasselbeck's first 3 seasons working with Zorn and Holmgren in Seattle:

2001: 176/321 54.8%, 2,023 yards, 7 TD, 8 INT, 70.9 rating
2002: 267/419 63.7%, 3,075 yards, 15 TD, 10 INT, 87.8 rating
2003: 313/513 61.0%, 3,841 yards, 26 TD, 15 INT, 88.8 rating

And here's what JC did in year 1 with Zorn:

2008: 315/506 62.3%, 3,245 yards, 13 TD, 6 INT, 84.3 rating

I think it's only fair we see how JC does in year 2 before any hard conclusions are made as to whether he can be a quality long term answer here or not. JC is already on par with what Hasselbeck did in year 2.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=SBXVII;517440][B]Hey GM, perhaps I'm wrong but I thought the WCO was supposed to be the easiest to learn and the fastest[/B]. It has only a few to a hanful of basic formations that all the other plays develope from. I thought Gibbs system was supposed to be the hardest do to all the different base formations and motions.[/quote]

I'm no expert, but from my understanding it's the other way around. Steve Young said it takes a QB a minimum of two years to really become fully adept in the West Coast system. I believe it's one of the most complex.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=Mattyk72;517450]Let's put some perspective on this:

Matt Hasselbeck's first 3 seasons working with Zorn and Holmgren in Seattle:

2001: 176/321 54.8%, 2,023 yards, 7 TD, 8 INT, 70.9 rating
2002: 267/419 63.7%, 3,075 yards, 15 TD, 10 INT, 87.8 rating
2003: 313/513 61.0%, 3,841 yards, 26 TD, 15 INT, 88.8 rating

And here's what JC did in year 1 with Zorn:

2008: 315/506 62.3%, 3,245 yards, 13 TD, 6 INT, 84.3 rating

I think it's only fair we see how JC does in year 2 before any hard conclusions are made as to whether he can be a quality long term answer here or not. JC is already on par with what Hasselbeck did in year 2.[/quote]

Right on. Hasselbeck was actually benched for Trent Dilfer mid-way through his first year as a starter in WCO, and still went on to multiple pro bowls and an NFC Championship.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=Mattyk72;517450]
2001: 176/321 54.8%, 2,023 yards, 7 TD, 8 INT, 70.9 rating
2002: 267/419 63.7%, 3,075 yards, 15 TD, 10 INT, 87.8 rating
2003: 313/513 61.0%, 3,841 yards, 26 TD, 15 INT, 88.8 rating
And here's what JC did in year 1 with Zorn:
2008: 315/506 62.3%, 3,245 yards, 13 TD, 6 INT, 84.3 rating
[/quote]
Good Post, Matt also had 1 year on the bench in Green Bay.

[quote=SBXVII;517440]Hey GM, perhaps I'm wrong but I thought the WCO was supposed to be the easiest to learn and the fastest. It has only a few to a hanful of basic formations that all the other plays develope from. I thought Gibbs system was supposed to be the hardest do to all the different base formations and motions.[/quote]

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs05/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2311953]ESPN - Hasselbeck thriving in West Coast offense - NFL[/url]
^^^John Clayton article
[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="4"]SEATTLE -- Mike Holmgren professes that it takes three years to make a quarterback in the West Coast offense, and it takes five years for a West Coast quarterback to become a very good one.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=BeastsoftheNFCeast;517275]This is a little late to say now that the season is over...but its something thats been bugging me. Jason Campbell is slow in everything he does. When I watch him back in the pocket, he has no urgency to throw the ball; he takes forever to look look at his second or third target, he has a slow release on the ball, he doesnt drop back quickly, and hes not that fast of a runner (and the worst slider Ive ever seen...seriously its not that hard). I think he's got an OK arm (good strength, not so good acuracy), seems to make OK decisions when he throws the ball, but makes too many non decisions due to his slow processing. I really dont think this guy can get the job done and we need to get someone who can.[/quote]


no urgency because no receivers are getting open. 2nd and 3rd targets rarely get the ball because he is on his ass if he holds the ball for more than 2 or 3 seconds. Decent runner, does have to work on the sliding. very strong arm, good deep ball and thrown with a 60.2% accuracy. Pretty damn good. I dont think he was the problem.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=Mattyk72;517450]Let's put some perspective on this:

Matt Hasselbeck's first 3 seasons working with Zorn and Holmgren in Seattle:

2001: 176/321 54.8%, 2,023 yards, 7 TD, 8 INT, 70.9 rating
2002: 267/419 63.7%, 3,075 yards, 15 TD, 10 INT, 87.8 rating
2003: 313/513 61.0%, 3,841 yards, 26 TD, 15 INT, 88.8 rating

And here's what JC did in year 1 with Zorn:

2008: 315/506 62.3%, 3,245 yards, 13 TD, 6 INT, 84.3 rating

I think it's only fair we see how JC does in year 2 before any hard conclusions are made as to whether he can be a quality long term answer here or not. JC is already on par with what Hasselbeck did in year 2.[/quote]

Thank You!

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=SBXVII;517340]JC is from the south. He has a laid back attitude about everything. We have to take the good with the bad. With this laid back attitude you get a calm collected pocket passer who does not get flustered. ...the bad is he's laid back and not in panick mode when we are 2 scores down with 3 min. left in the game.

The question is which do you want? the panicky QB who sometimes throws interceptions....Romo, or would you rather have the calm collected QB who controls the ball JC? Sometime teams get lucky and get the in between type of QB ie; Brady, Payton Manning, and Farve.[/quote]
he gets flustered, you can see it in his face, he just doesn't make it verbal it seems

favre owns the INT column

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=30gut;517343]Listen to these clips on Campbell especially Jaws breakdown:

[COLOR=Red]Jaws previews Cowboys-Giants, Colts-Patriots and Titans-Packers and says [SIZE=4]Jason Campbell is the MVP of the league[/SIZE][/COLOR]


[URL="http://search.espn.go.com/jason-campbell/audio/7"]Jason Campbell - Audio - ESPN[/URL][/quote]
that was in october

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=bedlamVR;517371]I know 99% of the fans have made their minds up on Campbell regardless of what is played out on the field .

I have read their arguments and the though out counter arguments and seen Campbell play every game this year ... and yes he has had bad plays along with good plays . Along with a bunch of other players ...

and to be honest, after looking at everything. I can come up with just one conculsion and it is not said lightly ..its not Campbell it maybe something wrong with some of the fans ... .. I just cannot help but think if Campbell was white ... then we would not be looking for his replacement ...I know they would not be calling for some guy drafted in the 6th round who has shown nothing in an NFL game ... comments about him being dumb and his attitude because he is from the south just sound I don't know like some of you are posting on here with pointy white hats and burning crosses ...[/quote]

you're making a non-issue into an issue

the south "laid back style" transcends color man

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=bedlamVR;517376]Okay I am sorry about the last post but it needed to be said .. I do think some of the attitude towards 17 is because of the colour of his skin .

I am just fustrated with every single message board and Redskins blog being filled with the same drivel . He holds the ball too long he locks onto one reciever etc etc

I have heard some very compelling evidence on both sides of the arguments but so many of the anti Campbell posters would rather be right so perpetuate the myth rather than actually look at what is happening .

Give the team time ... Give Campbell time and we will see who is right .

And btw I think you can track the teams woes on offense back to when Samuels knee really started to bother him (Steelers game I think ) just a thought[/quote]

but yes, he definitely locks in too much.. telegraphs every throw and if he doesn't have cooley or someone to drop it off to, he's lost... a lot of qb's only look at one side of the field and it seems like he looks at even less

regardless, I think that he'll get into the system and I believe that he's good enough to not be a liability to the team and program, but we have to grow in other areas to allow this

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=bedlamVR;517419]The redskins were also the last team include black players - Bobby Mitchell in 1964 - proud of that fact ?
[/quote]

Shutup, many of us weren't even alive and none of us were the GM's, owners, coaches, etc

Most of our avatars are of black players, we tend to love Portis, etc.. Cooley is about the only white guy that anyone that loves our team has a boner for, other than Brennan

for some reason you WANT that to be the issue, it's ridiculous

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

I can't believe we are even talking about race in regards to Campbell.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=WaldSkins;517495]I can't believe we are even talking about race in regards to Campbell.[/quote]
seriously

or even in the NFL

EDIT: not including philly

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=tryfuhl;517492]but yes, he definitely locks in too much.. telegraphs every throw and if he doesn't have cooley or someone to drop it off to, he's lost... a lot of qb's only look at one side of the field and it seems like he looks at even less [/quote]

What makes you say this?

One of the things Zorn and others (Jaws, Aikman) praise Jason for is that he [B][I]does[/I][/B] go through his progressions.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/11/26/ST2008112604197.html]Campbell Is Earning Zorn's Trust - washingtonpost.com[/url]

The tendency was something Zorn knew he would have to address with Campbell, but the former Seahawks quarterback smiled as he analyzed the young signal caller's performance during his news conference later in the day.

[COLOR="Indigo"]"Remember, at the beginning of the season I couldn't get him off that receiver and now he is off him, you know, five yards down the field. Boy, he's looking for number two and number three," the first-year head coach said, chuckling. "So we'll get him back on track. I think he's playing well, though." [/COLOR]

I don't know bro, this is like a direct contradiction of what you're saying huh?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

[quote=tryfuhl;517490]that was in october[/quote]

But it doesn't change the [B][U][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Red"]fact[/COLOR][/SIZE][/U][/B] that Jason was at one point being considered for league MVP.

Here's a question for you and [B]BeastsoftheNFCeast[/B] and [B]BigHairedAristocrat[/B]

If Jason was being considered for MVP can you admit that Jason was at least playing well in the 1st half of the season?

Here are some more quotes you might like:
[url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/redskins/2008-10-23-sw-cover_N.htm]With tough love from Zorn, Campbell now among elite QBs - USATODAY.com[/url]

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Former Pittsburgh Steelers head coach Bill Cowher considers Campbell a leading candidate for mid-season league MVP.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkRed"]"Jason Campbell has played as well as anybody has in the NFL at his position," Cowher, now a CBS analyst, says. "He's thrown for good numbers. He's got no turnovers. He's big, strong and able to move out of the pocket and make throws down the field.

"He's brought his team back when they've been down. I've been very impressed with Jason Campbell's play."[/COLOR]
-------------------------------------------------------
[COLOR="Red"]Fox Sports lead NFL analyst Troy Aikman says[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"]"With all the coaching changes, I didn't know how it would play out with Jim Zorn becoming a first-time head coach and play-caller and losing defensive coordinator Gregg Williams and Jason Campbell having to learn a new system again."
"The reason they're closing people out is the way Jim Zorn is calling games.
"He's going for it on fourth down and throwing on first down in the fourth quarter because Jason understands about taking care of the ball."[/COLOR]

-------------------------------------------------------------
[COLOR="Orange"]"I thought Jason would eventually play well under Jim Zorn," ESPN Monday Night Football analyst Ron Jaworski says. "I didn't think he'd play this well, this early.
"I've seen his game ascending. He can make every throw a quarterback has to have, the tough stick throw, the deep out, the seam route. He has great anticipation. I thought he'd become a rock-solid quarterback.
"That it's happened this quickly really is a tribute to Jim Zorn."[/COLOR]

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=tryfuhl;517489]he gets flustered, you can see it in his face, he just doesn't make it verbal it seems[/quote]

Ah, yes, the old "face" test. I hear Bill Walsh was a big proponent of using this method to break down opponents.

I can't believe this thread has gone to five pages.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=30gut;517533]What makes you say this?

One of the things Zorn and others (Jaws, Aikman) praise Jason for is that he [B][I]does[/I][/B] go through his progressions.

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/11/26/ST2008112604197.html"]Campbell Is Earning Zorn's Trust - washingtonpost.com[/URL]

The tendency was something Zorn knew he would have to address with Campbell, but the former Seahawks quarterback smiled as he analyzed the young signal caller's performance during his news conference later in the day.

[COLOR=Indigo]"Remember, at the beginning of the season I couldn't get him off that receiver and now he is off him, you know, five yards down the field. Boy, he's looking for number two and number three," the first-year head coach said, chuckling. "So we'll get him back on track. I think he's playing well, though." [/COLOR]

I don't know bro, this is like a direct contradiction of what you're saying huh?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------



But it doesn't change the [B][U][SIZE=3][COLOR=Red]fact[/COLOR][/SIZE][/U][/B] that Jason was at one point being considered for league MVP.

Here's a question for you and [B]BeastsoftheNFCeast[/B] and [B]BigHairedAristocrat[/B]

If Jason was being considered for MVP can you admit that Jason was at least playing well in the 1st half of the season?

Here are some more quotes you might like:
[URL="http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/redskins/2008-10-23-sw-cover_N.htm"]With tough love from Zorn, Campbell now among elite QBs - USATODAY.com[/URL]

[COLOR=DarkRed]Former Pittsburgh Steelers head coach Bill Cowher considers Campbell a leading candidate for mid-season league MVP.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=DarkRed]"Jason Campbell has played as well as anybody has in the NFL at his position," Cowher, now a CBS analyst, says. "He's thrown for good numbers. He's got no turnovers. He's big, strong and able to move out of the pocket and make throws down the field.

"He's brought his team back when they've been down. I've been very impressed with Jason Campbell's play."[/COLOR]
-------------------------------------------------------
[COLOR=Red]Fox Sports lead NFL analyst Troy Aikman says[/COLOR][COLOR=Red]"With all the coaching changes, I didn't know how it would play out with Jim Zorn becoming a first-time head coach and play-caller and losing defensive coordinator Gregg Williams and Jason Campbell having to learn a new system again."
"The reason they're closing people out is the way Jim Zorn is calling games.
"He's going for it on fourth down and throwing on first down in the fourth quarter because Jason understands about taking care of the ball."[/COLOR]

-------------------------------------------------------------
[COLOR=Orange]"I thought Jason would eventually play well under Jim Zorn," ESPN Monday Night Football analyst Ron Jaworski says. "I didn't think he'd play this well, this early.
"I've seen his game ascending. He can make every throw a quarterback has to have, the tough stick throw, the deep out, the seam route. He has great anticipation. I thought he'd become a rock-solid quarterback.
"That it's happened this quickly really is a tribute to Jim Zorn."[/COLOR][/quote]

Just stop trying 30gut. Reason and expert analysis falls on deaf ears with the Campbell haters around here. You can point out concrete analysis from experts left and right, and not only won't any of the haters acknowledge it, they'll still preach on like they know what they're talking about.

Not to mention the fact that there are probably at least half a dozen threads dedicated to how "bad" of a qb JC is, yet these new threads keep popping up. :doh:

Yours is an honorable effort, but some people just don't really like to listen to reason.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=GMScud;517554]Just stop trying 30gut. Reason and expert analysis falls on deaf ears with the Campbell haters around here. You can point out concrete analysis from experts left and right, and not only won't any of the haters acknowledge it, they'll still preach on like they know what they're talking about.

Not to mention the fact that there are probably at least half a dozen threads dedicated to how "bad" of a qb JC is, yet these new threads keep popping up. :doh:

Yours is an honorable effort, but some people just don't really like to listen to reason.[/quote]Well, hey, reason is directly contradicting what they want to think, so I mean, doesn't it have to be wrong?

I mean, a lot of the criticisms against JC in this thread are being [B]totally 100% made up.[/B] Then there are other criticisms that are there: long release, from the south, not Matt Ryan, that are true, but are being used improperly to support conclusions that they don't actually support.

And that's inclusive of all the anti-Campbell arguments. Made up evidence. Misused evidence. You'd think if the guy was really not the future of the team, someone could make a stronger argument than "I'm not sold on him", but that was firstdowns argument, and it was the best non-pro-Campbell argument in this entire 6 page thread.

Sadly.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

lol another JC thread, ill just post what i always do i suppose . .

JC has does enough good things to be optimistic about his future, but he hasnt done enough to quiet the doubters.

i just dont get how some of ya'll can act like JC's play doesnt leave something to be desired so far. i dont believe we should bench JC for colt or even having an open comp next year but i am certainly on the fence about JC and i dont think im stupid for thinking so, nor do i think the ardent JC supporters are wrong.

enough good things and bad things for reasonably intelligent minds to respectfully disagree on.

go skins!!

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

Some of you Skins fans hate the whole damn roster it seems... its funny to me..

Heres an Observation. WE NEED OUR O-LINE PROBLEMS SOLVED... if Jason doesnt perform then... well then ill point the finger. I see nothing wrong with our Quarterback.. He makes mistakes at times but so do the best. Yes.. hes a left a little to be desired... but its too early to point the finger at him. Folks say.. he looks confused at times... NO... Eli Mannings a great example of looking confused if thats what you wanna criticize...Jason seems COMPOSED to me. Next Season will be another huge step for Campbell. ahem... Hopefully.