Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=Hog1;520539]You are right, JZ needs to stay! My jury is out on VC.....for now
Many fans including Skins fans scream for "Cowher"..........but they forget how many seasons it took to reach the pinacle.[/quote]

If you notice, Cowher's success came when the Steelers finally got rid of Kordell Stewart (after many years of trying to make him work out) and brought in a pro style QB. Cowher always had good Ds and a decent O but the QB kept holding them back.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=irish;520682]If you notice, Cowher's success came when the Steelers finally got rid of Kordell Stewart (after many years of trying to make him work out) and brought in a pro style QB. Cowher always had good Ds and a decent O but the QB kept holding them back.[/quote]

How are you measuring success here? In four years with Stewart as the starting QB they went to two AFC Championship games

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;520685]How are you measuring success here? In four years with Stewart as the starting QB they went to two AFC Championship games[/quote]

Which is further testament to Cowher's coaching prowess given how amazingly mediocre Stewart was.

Typical Kordell Stewart stat line: 9-23 passing, 143 yards, 2ints
64 rushing yards, 1td

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=GMScud;520689]Which is further testament to Cowher's coaching prowess given how amazingly mediocre Stewart was.

Typical Kordell Stewart stat line: 9-23 passing, 143 yards, 2ints
64 rushing yards, 1td[/quote]

I agree, it was amazing what Cowher did with KS as the QB. But in Pgh they define success as winning Super Bowls witnessed by the fact that the fans wanted him gone because he wasnt winning the Super Bowl but Rooney (the owner) stuck with him and they drafted BR, he came in and the rest is history.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=irish;520682]If you notice, Cowher's success came when the Steelers finally got rid of Kordell Stewart (after many years of trying to make him work out) and brought in a pro style QB. Cowher always had good Ds and a decent O but the QB kept holding them back.[/quote]Can we not subtly compare Jason Campbell to Kordell Stewart?

Especially if your definition of "pro style QB" is Roethlisberger. For everything he does do well, operate efficiently from the pocket and make good pre snap reads are not among them.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;520693]Can we not subtly compare Jason Campbell to Kordell Stewart?

Especially if your definition of "pro style QB" is Roethlisberger. For everything he does do well, operate efficiently from the pocket and make good pre snap reads are not among them.[/quote]

I wasnt comparing them but if you want me to I will. I only stated what is a fact, once the Steelers got rid of KS after many years of trying to make him work they finally had success because the offense could finally score points. I get a chuckle out out of people that like to dis BR when all he has done since he came into the league is win a Super Bowl and take his team deep into the playoffs every year. For someone that cant operate from the pocket and make good pre-snap reads, he sure has been successful. FYI, a pro style QB drops back and throws the ball, he runs only when he has to. If you watch NFL games you can see that's what a pro style QB does. Thats what BR does which is why he's a pro style QB.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

Believe I read Big Ben is the most accurate passer in the league since his rookie year... i still think he's a wank.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=irish;520703]I wasnt comparing them but if you want me to I will. I only stated what is a fact, once the Steelers got rid of KS after many years of trying to make him work they finally had success because the offense could finally score points. I get a chuckle out out of people that like to dis BR when all he has done since he came into the league is win a Super Bowl and take his team deep into the playoffs every year. For someone that cant operate from the pocket and make good pre-snap reads, he sure has been successful. FYI, a pro style QB drops back and throws the ball, he runs only when he has to. If you watch NFL games you can see that's what a pro style QB does. Thats what BR does which is why he's a pro style QB.[/quote]I think you are trying to imply that Jason Campbell isn't a pro-style QB. Which, if your prototype of the term is Roethlisberger, is worth many chuckles.

There's no doubt that Roethlisberger has had a successful five year career to date. Being a "pro-style QB" has little, if anything to do with that.

I mean, all you have to do is say what you mean. I'm just doing my best to read between the lines on your posts.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

I am in no way trying to imply that Ben Roethlisberger is not a bigger/better/winninger player than Kordell Stewart. Just that, Jason Campbell to Stewart is a real, real dumb comparison for a whole bunch of reasons. You didn't explicitly say that, but that's what I thought you were getting at when I read what you wrote.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

Trade away ARE, Springs, Smoot, and Carter- get the best we can out of trading those guys away.

resign - Hall is a must. M.U.S.T.
restructure J.Taylor - he needs to comeback
take our 13th pick and take C.J. Spiller - Clemsons
sign - Birk C from Minn.
I was high on Hanynesworth - I say pass but if we must get him then do, but if we dont need him - not a big deal to me now.
draft a OL in the 3rd Rd.
dont sign any WR from FA
I'm Banking on Devin Thomas will be ready for spring training.
as the clear cut #2
QB comp. between Campbell and Brennen/ 3rd free agent QB ????
move Jansen to LG
I think C.J. Spiller is a clone of Chris Johnson
I move Landry to SS
and Horton to FS, let him rome the field.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;520560]If I were ME, and I had Vinnys Job, I would:

[B][U]Coaching Staff[/U][/B]
-Keep Everyone in place but make Zorn relinquish some of his duties (I would allow Zorn to keep playcalling duties, beleiving that he would improve in that area if he had fewer responsibilities elsewhere)

[B][U]Resign[/U][/B]
-DeAngelo Hall.
-Monty

[B][U]Cut[/U][/B]
Of starters: Griffin, Rabach, Washington, Taylor, both kickers

[B][U]Trade[/U][/B]
-Santana Moss (3rd and 4th rounders - for kicks, lets say we trade with SF. They get more out of Moss in 2 games than we ever got out of Lloyd in 2 seaons)
-kedric Golston (4th rounder)
-Chris Horton (low 2nd rounder)

[B][U]Sign in Free Agency[/U][/B]
-[I]Rocky Bernard, DT, Seahawks[/I]. He will be 30 when the 2009 season starts and I would sign him to a contract appropriate for someone his age. He managed 33 tackles and 4 sacks on a horrible defense in 2008. He would replace Golston and give us time to develop a young DT in the draft.
-[I]Karlos Dansby, LB, Arizona[/I]. His stock will keep rising as long as Arizona keeps winning. He may become too expensive for us, but we'll see.
-[I]Devery Henderson, UFA, New Orleans Saints[/I]. Replaces Moss.
-Two new kickers... anyone but the guys we have.

[B][U]Draft[/U][/B]
Trade the #13 pick to ATL for their 1st and 2nd Rounders (ATL selects 24th) and draft:

1(ATL): [I]Ciron Black, OT, LSU.[/I] Black starts at RT in 2009 and swaps spots with Samuels in 2010.
2(ATL): [I]Max Unger, C, Oregon[/I] Unger replaces Rabach immediately and has the versatility to play OG as well.
2(For C.H.): [I]Fili Moala, DE/DT, USC [/I] Maola is also versatile and a good pick here if still available.
3(SF): [I]Clay Mathews, OLB, USC [/I] Replaces McIntosh as a starter by the end of the season
3(WAS): [I]Eric Moncur, DE, Miami [/I] Makes an instant impact on special teams as he works his way into a starting role in 2010.
4(SF) [I]Anthony Parker, G, Tenn [/I] Project Guard to start in 2010/2011
4(For K.G) [I]Captain Munnerlyn, CB, SC[/I] #3/#4CB
5(WAS):[I]Curtis Taylor, FS, LSU [/I] Competes for roster spot.
6(WAS):[I]Darryl Richard, DT, GT[/I] Competes for roster spot.

[B][U]2009 Offensive Starters[/U][/B]
QB:Jason Campbell
RB: Clinton Portis (splits carries with Betts)
WR1: Devin Thomas
WR2: Devery Henderson
TE1: Chris Cooley
TE2: Fred Davis (2TE sets becomes our standard formation as opposed to 1TE/1FB)
OL: Samuels, Rinehart, Unger, Thomas, Black

[B][U]2009 Defensive Starters[/U][/B]
DL: Carter, Montgommery, Bernard, Evans/Moala
LB: McIntosh, Fletcher, Dansby
CB: Rogers, Hall
SS: Landry
FS: Springs (when healthy)/Moore[/quote]

The one guy I would not trade is [B]Horton[/B].

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=DarkKnight;520733]Trade away ARE, Springs, Smoot, and Carter- get the best we can out of trading those guys away.

resign - Hall is a must. M.U.S.T.
restructure J.Taylor - he needs to comeback
[B]take our 13th pick and take C.J. Spiller - [/B]Clemsons
sign - Birk C from Minn.
I was high on Hanynesworth - I say pass but if we must get him then do, but if we dont need him - not a big deal to me now.
draft a OL in the 3rd Rd.
dont sign any WR from FA
I'm Banking on Devin Thomas will be ready for spring training.
as the clear cut #2
QB comp. between Campbell and Brennen/ 3rd free agent QB ????
move Jansen to LG
[B]I think C.J. Spiller is a clone of Chris Johnson[/B]
I move Landry to SS
and Horton to FS, let him rome the field.[/quote]

CJ Spiller announced today he [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3836174&campaign=rss&source=NCFHeadlines"]has decided to return to school [/URL]despite receiving a 1st round grade from the NFL Draft advisory committee. Stupid move IMO. If you can get paid 1st round $$ at a position as injury prone as RB, you take it when you can. I'm of the opinion that if you're a shoo-in first round pick, you go pro. You can always get your degree when you're done making a fortune.

I agree about the Chris Johnson comparison. They are similar in size and running style.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

What? Why the hell take a RB w/ our first pick in the draft? It's almost on the level of grabbing another WR.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

Revoke all special priveldges.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=The Goat;520748]What? Why the hell take a RB w/ our first pick in the draft? It's almost on the level of grabbing another WR.[/quote]

I wasn't saying the Skins should draft a RB. By "take it," I meant CJ Spiller is holding the proverbial winning lottery ticket (a 1st round pick right now), and he's not cashing it.

I'd like to add a RB with homerun ability if possible, but not at the expense of building our lines, and definitely not with our 1st pick.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=GMScud;520754]I wasn't saying the Skins should draft a RB. By "take it," I meant CJ Spiller is holding the proverbial winning lottery ticket (a 1st round pick right now), and he's not cashing it.

I'd like to add a RB with homerun ability if possible, but not at the expense of building our lines, and definitely not with our 1st pick.[/quote]

Sorry i must be a little slow tonight. Just so I understand you mean take the guy to trade for more picks or current players right?

Anyway, a speedster back would be sweet but IMHO we're wasting the talent we've got @ RB right now in that we don't utilize Betts or Portis to their respective strengths. Betts should be running between the tackles in the first half and mixing things up catching passes out of the backfield. Portis should be our "finisher" starting in the 3rd and stretching plays out much longer than we currently see.

(of course this all assumes we upgrade the o-line as you mentioned)

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=The Goat;520756][B]Sorry i must be a little slow tonight. Just so I understand you mean take the guy to trade for more picks or current players right?[/B]

Anyway, a speedster back would be sweet but IMHO we're wasting the talent we've got @ RB right now in that we don't utilize Betts or Portis to their respective strengths. Betts should be running between the tackles in the first half and mixing things up catching passes out of the backfield. Portis should be our "finisher" starting in the 3rd and stretching plays out much longer than we currently see.

(of course this all assumes we upgrade the o-line as you mentioned)[/quote]

Maybe I should edit my original post. I do not, repeat, do not want to draft a RB with our 1st pick. O-line or LB. Period.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=GMScud;520759]Maybe I should edit my original post. I do not, repeat, do not want to draft a RB with our 1st pick. O-line or LB. Period.[/quote]

got it

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=The Goat;520748]What? Why the hell take a RB w/ our first pick in the draft? It's almost on the level of grabbing another WR.[/quote]


Remember the Titans??? last year they were dogged for taking Chirs Johnson :duh:

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=Schneed10;520571]First on RT, I totally agree an improvement is needed. Jansen can't pass block and Heyer can't run block. Simple as that. That's one position where I'd absolutely make my move, and would probably use the first rounder on it.[/quote]

Or sign Vernon Carey. But yeah RT is definitely an area that needs improvement. Jansen isn't going to get any better, and Heyer is probably destined to be a strong backup

[quote]On Washington I totally agree he's too injury prone and not effective enough. That's why I have the team cutting him in my cap thread.[/quote]

Agreed, but they are really hurting in the LB department. I'd like to see them go after Dansby in free agency. Short of that, I do like Sean Witherspoon out of Missouri as a mid-round pick if we can secure some extra picks. Getting him would mean moving Rocky to the SAM, which could actually be the best fit for him anyway. It will be interesting to see what the Redskins might attempt to do with Alfred Fincher.

[quote]On Springs, I don't agree. Springs was STILL the best CB on our team last year when healthy, and I don't see any chronic medical conditions that would lead me to believe he'll be unhealthy next year. Remember, just last year he played all 16 games for us. If you have arthritic knees or something that will nag you all season, that's one thing. But to have an acute calf injury to a guy who stays in shape with the best of them and to say he'll be hurt all year - there's no reason that's accurate.[/quote]

The team is better when he's on the field, whether it's at safety or at cornerback. I think his fragility is overrated, but we do need to start taking into account his age.

[quote]On Griffin, they gu misses a few games each season, has for the past five years. I could go either way on him. On one hand it's not like he's missing tons of time, but on the other he does get hit with nagging things which he plays through, but reduces his effectiveness. But you can't argue with his ability to clog running lanes, he's still a big reason we ended up doing so well against the run. I really don't see how a Rocky Bernard is an upgrade, other than the health factor.[/quote]

I wish we had another strong interior defensive linemen to line up with Montgomery as the starter then make either Daniels or Griffin the backup. A solid veteran who can play a few downs a game but not someone we need to count on to carry us for the majority of the game or season

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=GMScud;520740]CJ Spiller announced today he [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3836174&campaign=rss&source=NCFHeadlines"]has decided to return to school [/URL]despite receiving a 1st round grade from the NFL Draft advisory committee. Stupid move IMO. If you can get paid 1st round $$ at a position as injury prone as RB, you take it when you can. I'm of the opinion that if you're a shoo-in first round pick, you go pro. You can always get your degree when you're done making a fortune.

I agree about the Chris Johnson comparison. They are similar in size and running style.[/quote]

I agree you don't ever leave that much oney on the table like Spiller is - plus I am a Gamecock fan so having him around for another year is going to suck when my team plays them!

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=Bill B;520816]I agree you don't ever leave that much oney on the table like Spiller is - plus I am a Gamecock fan so having him around for another year is going to suck when my team plays them![/quote]

what a bonehead move. sometimes i wonder what these guys are thinking. Every year he plays in college for free is one year off his NFL career... and if he has a good career, that one year could amount to several million dollars. Whoever is advising him is a moron.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

All right well this plan is more of a hybrid Vinny/Dirtbag plan (aka Vinbagerato). Basically in keeping in line with what the front office seems to be planning here's what I would do.

[I][B]Resign and Cut:
[/B][/I][B]Resign[/B]
Anthony Montgomery
DeAngelo Hall
Kedric Gholston

[B]Cut
[/B]Marcus Washington
Shawn Springs
Cornelius Griffin
Phillip Daniels

[B]Restructure
[/B]Jason Taylor - Try and get him to take half $4 million next year instead of $8 mllion. Use the savings to resign Hall to a new deal.

[B]Free Agents to Consider - Budget about $10-$12 Million for Free Agents and Resignings
[/B]Vernon Carey - OG - Big contract probably, in the neighborhood of what we brought in Randy Thomas for. Move the guy to left or right guard depending on how well Thomas and Rhinehart perform.

Kalif Barnes - RT - Bring him in with a relatively small contract and move him to RT. He was always a great run blocker and he's performed at a high level his first year in the league, to the point where Bugel could possibly turn him into our next Cornelius Griffin, just along the O-Line instead of the D-Line. If you don't get the Griffin referance then heres a quick run down. Griffin was good for the Giants early as a second round pick. His play fell off and we signed him as a free agent. Eventually he had his best years here as a Redskin.

Chris Canty - DT - If no one is willing to offer him the Tommy Kelly type money he's looking for then lets try and bring him on home from the hell that is the Dallas Cowboys. Doubt that we can get him, but he would be a very welcome addition and possibly the guy we need to help collapse the pocket and allow our DE's to stop worrying about QB's stepping up in the pocket.

Channing Crowder - OLB - Not exactly sure how much he will command but he definately has the specs to play SLB for us. Though not much of a pass rusher. This play would also depend on weather or not Meluga could play OLB for a year or two until Fletcher leaves.
[B]
Draft[/B]
1st Round - Rey Meluga - LB - USC - Get our replacement for London Fletcher and hopefully our own version of Rey Lewis or Patrick Willis.

3rd Round - Best Center Available - This is key because my plan for next year involves getting rid of Casey Rabach as well as getting younger on the O-Line

5th Round - Best DT available - Find a guy that can contribute as part of a rotation. Would be nice to find our own Kelly Gregg here but I'm not holding my breath.

6th Round - Best Guard available - Just trying to find some depth. Probably end up being camp fodder.

[B]Next Years Cuts and Expired Contracts
[/B]Casey Rabach - $3 million in cap savings
Fred Smoot - $3 mllion in cap savings
Randle El - A little under $2 mllion in cap savings
Jon Jansen - $2 mllion in cap savings
Todd Collins - $1.5 mllion in cap savings
Jason Taylor - $4 million in cap savings
*London Fletcher - Little under $3 million pending on Meluga's readyness and Fletcher's performance

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;522963]All right well this plan is more of a hybrid Vinny/Dirtbag plan (aka Vinbagerato). Basically in keeping in line with what the front office seems to be planning here's what I would do.

[I][B]Resign and Cut:
[/B][/I][B]Resign[/B]
Anthony Montgomery
DeAngelo Hall
Kedric Gholston

[B]Cut
[/B]Marcus Washington
Shawn Springs
Cornelius Griffin
Phillip Daniels

[B]Restructure
[/B]Jason Taylor - Try and get him to take half $4 million next year instead of $8 mllion. Use the savings to resign Hall to a new deal.

[B]Free Agents to Consider - Budget about $10-$12 Million for Free Agents and Resignings
[/B]Vernon Carey - OG - Big contract probably, in the neighborhood of what we brought in Randy Thomas for. Move the guy to left or right guard depending on how well Thomas and Rhinehart perform.

Kalif Barnes - RT - Bring him in with a relatively small contract and move him to RT. He was always a great run blocker and he's performed at a high level his first year in the league, to the point where Bugel could possibly turn him into our next Cornelius Griffin, just along the O-Line instead of the D-Line. If you don't get the Griffin referance then heres a quick run down. Griffin was good for the Giants early as a second round pick. His play fell off and we signed him as a free agent. Eventually he had his best years here as a Redskin.

Chris Canty - DT - If no one is willing to offer him the Tommy Kelly type money he's looking for then lets try and bring him on home from the hell that is the Dallas Cowboys. Doubt that we can get him, but he would be a very welcome addition and possibly the guy we need to help collapse the pocket and allow our DE's to stop worrying about QB's stepping up in the pocket.

Channing Crowder - OLB - Not exactly sure how much he will command but he definately has the specs to play SLB for us. Though not much of a pass rusher. This play would also depend on weather or not Meluga could play OLB for a year or two until Fletcher leaves.
[B]
Draft[/B]
1st Round - Rey Meluga - LB - USC - Get our replacement for London Fletcher and hopefully our own version of Rey Lewis or Patrick Willis.

3rd Round - Best Center Available - This is key because my plan for next year involves getting rid of Casey Rabach as well as getting younger on the O-Line

5th Round - Best DT available - Find a guy that can contribute as part of a rotation. Would be nice to find our own Kelly Gregg here but I'm not holding my breath.

6th Round - Best Guard available - Just trying to find some depth. Probably end up being camp fodder.

[B]Next Years Cuts and Expired Contracts
[/B]Casey Rabach - $3 million in cap savings
Fred Smoot - $3 mllion in cap savings
Randle El - A little under $2 mllion in cap savings
Jon Jansen - $2 mllion in cap savings
Todd Collins - $1.5 mllion in cap savings
Jason Taylor - $4 million in cap savings
*London Fletcher - Little under $3 million pending on Meluga's readyness and Fletcher's performance[/quote]

Man good stuff here DB. I don't know if we can have that much luck in FA but it would sure take pressure off the draft situation and having so few picks.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

Nice study Dirtbag, I still don't like the idea of letting ARE go. I think if we design plays involving him he could be extreamly valuable

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

Win less at racquetball??:spank:

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

I just noticed ARE is listed under Expired contract not cuts. Sorry my bad

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=44ever;522982]I just noticed ARE is listed under Expired contract not cuts. Sorry my bad[/quote]

I think if at least one of our young wideouts kicks it into high gear than ARL becomes expendable. If both Thomas/Kelly reach their potential I could see us trade Moss or ARL (and maybe even both) after '09. Zorn would have so much to work with if that happened between the two WRs and Cooley/Davis. I know it's not this simple but sitting here in Jan it just seems like if our guys on offense practice hard together (w/ the necessary upgrades on the line) we should be a vastly improved squad by opening day. We've got pro-bowl RB and TE; a QB willing to work his tail off; a 2nd monster @ TE; an explosive threat @ WR in Moss (assuming we still have him this season). I swear Thomas/Kelly are the missing feathers to make this bird fly.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

put on some chap stick and work on eliminating my gag reflex

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=tryfuhl;522992]put on some chap stick and work on eliminating my gag reflex[/quote]

:lol:

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=44ever;522982]I just noticed ARE is listed under Expired contract not cuts. Sorry my bad[/quote]

Actually you're initial reaction was correct. ARE under my plan is a cut in 2010. The list at the bottom contains both cuts and practically one expiring contract which belongs to Jason Taylor. Ironically I'm not to crazy about my plan because it seems to have a good amount of free agent spending and creating more problems for the future. However at the very least we keep all of 2010's draft picks and the Dolphins proved you could be effective in free agency with mid-level guys like Justin Smiley and Randy Starks.