Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;525103]I've been wanting to post this for a long time. Why dont the Redskins go to a 3-4 defense. It seems to be the dominant defense in the league and I think we have the players. Jason Taylor would be better siuted to it and we could have Golston and Evans play the ends and Monty play NT. Wilson could probably play some LB and maybe a Suggs in Free agency or a Dansby. What Do you guys think.[/quote]

We are not better suited you're just a 3-4 bandwagoner. There's as many terrible 3-4 defenses in this league as there are terrible 4-3 defenses and theres a lot less 3-4.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

Ditto with the title. I really don't care what system/scheme we run so long as it's attacking and the attacking is effective causing the QB to rush his passes or force some throws creating interceptions.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

We don't have the LB's, the DL, or the coach for it.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

No.

We were the #4 overall defense last season. Transitioning to the 3-4 scheme would require 1) new coaches 2) new players... from what i see only Anthony and Fletcher would be solid running the 3-4 so for all practical purposes we'd require 3 new starting LBs and 2 new starting ends (Taylor might do well in a 3-4 but do we really want to pay this guy an arm and a leg experimenting?).

Just no.

... as to the claim that 3-4 defenses are dominating clearly Pitt and Baltimore fit that description but the other great defenses - NY, Philly, us - still run the 4-3 and have proven it can dominate the best offensive machine in NFL history. Really aside from two very lucky Superbowl wins by the Steelers, which required quite a bit of help from the officials, i doubt the 3-4 would carry the mystique it seems to.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

I'll be the first to say don't tinker with something that's not broke but to me and I'll repeat to me 4th best in the league is a shocker. I know every year or every other year we are in the top 10 as a defense, but I just can't help feeling like ....yes the team was a top notch D but I feel like it struggled all season to even get there.

No pass rush
very few sacks
very few interceptions
DL not being able to collapse the pocket
No defensive TD's

It's the same feeling I get about the Special Teams. Every year I wonder why we can't get beyond the 30 yard line on KR. Why our PR can't seem to get more yards then 5 everytime teams punt to us. Then some one has to come along and present the stats for the year and if it's not Vinny then he's taking notes from the blogs cause we next see him on tv with the whole ...."they were 4th in the league. That's incredible. What more can we ask of them?" LOL.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

[quote=SBXVII;525387]I'll be the first to say don't tinker with something that's not broke but to me and I'll repeat to me 4th best in the league is a shocker. I know every year or every other year we are in the top 10 as a defense, but I just can't help feeling like ....yes the team was a top notch D but I feel like it struggled all season to even get there.

No pass rush
very few sacks
very few interceptions
DL not being able to collapse the pocket
No defensive TD's

[B]It's the same feeling I get about the Special Teams.[/B] Every year I wonder why we can't get beyond the 30 yard line on KR. Why our PR can't seem to get more yards then 5 everytime teams punt to us. Then some one has to come along and present the stats for the year and if it's not Vinny then he's taking notes from the blogs cause we next see him on tv with the whole ...."they were 4th in the league. That's incredible. What more can we ask of them?" LOL.[/quote]

I don't think there's any dispute our special teams sucked donkey balls. But dude you have to give props to our d. We shut down the run almost every game. This is huge and we shouldn't take it for granted. We hold receivers to very few YAC most of the time. We've been able to get QBs on the run to disrupt plays.

... you're still right on your criticisms. I think a nice upgrade @ left end would do us a hell of a lot of good and it looks like we'll be searching for another OLB so might as well upgrade there too (i'm thinking FA in both cases). But my point is a couple of additions and we should start to see some of the weaknesses turn around.

... i also keep in mind we did all this after losing our best player... RIP miss you forever Sean...

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

May not be a bad idea since we don't like addressing our need at D-line, that will be one less D-line possition to worry about.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

it is an interesting "what if" to think about as you are parked on the beltway waiting to go home . . but like most have said, we are not anywhere close to being set up for a 3-4 but man i do love watchin some 3-4 D just to see all those LBs come up to the line either blitzing or showing blitz and dropping back into coverage. i like trying to guess which ones are coming and which ones would be dropping back then seeing if the qb read it right and adjusted correctly.

go skins!!

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

The biggest issue with going to a 3-4 (although I love that defensive scheme) is our lack of a wide bodied Nose Tackle to clog the middle. Without that, the 3-4 is no good (think Cleveland Browns before Shaun Rogers). All great 3-4 teams have a hube NT to clog the middle like Casey Hampton of the Steelers. Plus we have limited depth at LB. It would take years to properly convert to a 3-4... and a new coordinator.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

Bingo too that, are defense was a top 10 last year, so why would we want to get rid of a quality coordinator in Blache??? Also, we don't have close to the right personel for this kind of D, I think our biggest DL is Griffin, and who knows how long he is gonna be around. What the team does in FA should answer what path our D will be going down. Does anyone support bringing Peppers or Haynesworth to the team, I would also mention Suggs, but I think he is staying a Raven.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

[quote=Son Of Man;525445][B]The biggest issue with going to a 3-4 (although I love that defensive scheme) is our lack of a wide bodied Nose Tackle [/B]to clog the middle. Without that, the 3-4 is no good (think Cleveland Browns before Shaun Rogers). All great 3-4 teams have a hube NT to clog the middle like Casey Hampton of the Steelers. Plus we have limited depth at LB. It would take years to properly convert to a 3-4... and a new coordinator.[/quote]

You are correct. Our roster is not built for the 3-4. We do not have a strong, powerful and skilled enough NT like (Pit) Casey Hampton or (Ravens) Haloti Ngata that can control two gaps, either side of the center. I am not talking about size, I am talking about strength and skill enough to manhandle the other teams center and guard.
The only one that might be able to do it for a little while until he gets hurt is Griffen.
Montgomery, Golston and Alexander do not have the ability. Montgomery has the size but he has not displayed the strength or skill to cover two gaps. He can cover one well, but not two which is the requirement for a 3-4 defense to be able to stop the run effectively.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

[quote=LandrySlice;525465][B]Bingo too that, are defense was a top 10 last year, so why would we want to get rid of a quality coordinator in Blache??? [/B]Also, we don't have close to the right personel for this kind of D, I think our biggest DL is Griffin, and who knows how long he is gonna be around. What the team does in FA should answer what path our D will be going down. [B]Does anyone support bringing Peppers or Haynesworth to the team, I would also mention Suggs, but I think he is staying a Raven.[/B][/quote]

Agreed with the first point, I don't know why people want to get rid of Blache so badly. Did he coach the offensive line or something? Because otherwise, I feel the defense keept this team from being worst than 8-8.

On your last question, I don't think the team can afford a Haynesworth or Peppers, nor do I think they plan to go after a high profile free agent.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

I think that wold be a good idea!!!!

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

First off, this is a worthwhile discussion at this time of year. Second,let's not give to much credit to the #4 ranking. Sure, the D kept us in games, but I believe that by season's end they were just above avg. Offenses knew that if they were patient our D couldn't shut them down entirely. I know they were on the field a long time in some games, but they are not as imposing as a #4 ranking would seem. Next year they could really fall hard.

I never liked the 3-4 just because the Skins never have run it. But I also didn't like the WCO for the same reason, just seems foreign. When I think about it though, what makes these 3-4 teams stand out are the linebackers. The system allows tweener guys to develop, whereas those same guys are often undersized in a 4-3.

The style of systems being used is often a reflection of the types of players available. Seems these days there are a lot of guys that can play OLB/DE in a 3-4 that are not really suited to be 4-3 DEs.

Ever wonder why so many 4-3 DEs are busts in the draft? yet you don't hear about many OLBs that are busts. The Skins have passed up a lot of talented 3-4 OLB/DEs, a position which seems to be a surplus in the college ranks. Take a look at this year's DEs, most of them aren't over 255-260 lbs. For that reason alone, a 3-4 makes sense to me, but only if the whole staff is blown up. Otherwise, it's not practical anytime soon.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

[quote=freddyg12;525494]First off, this is a worthwhile discussion at this time of year. Second,let's not give to much credit to the #4 ranking. Sure, the D kept us in games, but I believe that by season's end they were just above avg. Offenses knew that if they were patient our D couldn't shut them down entirely. I know they were on the field a long time in some games, but they are not as imposing as a #4 ranking would seem. Next year they could really fall hard.

I never liked the 3-4 just because the Skins never have run it. But I also didn't like the WCO for the same reason, just seems foreign. When I think about it though, what makes these 3-4 teams stand out are the linebackers. The system allows tweener guys to develop, whereas those same guys are often undersized in a 4-3.

The style of systems being used is often a reflection of the types of players available.[B] Seems these days there are a lot of guys that can play OLB/DE in a 3-4 that are not really suited to be 4-3 DEs.[/B]

Ever wonder why so many 4-3 DEs are busts in the draft? yet you don't hear about many OLBs that are busts. The Skins have passed up a lot of talented 3-4 OLB/DEs, a position which seems to be a surplus in the college ranks. Take a look at this year's DEs, most of them aren't over 255-260 lbs. For that reason alone, a 3-4 makes sense to me, but only if the whole staff is blown up. Otherwise, it's not practical anytime soon.[/quote]

Good post. There seems to be an abundance of "tweeners" in this years draft. A lot of these guys who are passed over could probably make an impact in the 3-4. With these type of players and the success of the Pittsburgh defense among others, this may be something to start gearing for in the future. I don't see it happening with the Skins in the near future though. Blache is a 4-3 guy. I do like his "cobra" package which brings something different to the table.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

I like the idea but not next year, rather something we look at 3-4 years down the line IF we have a coach who can install it and 4-5 players on our rosters who could fit the 3-4 Defense. Right now, the key pieces which are caoch, NT and OLB, we do not have. Montgomery cannot be a NT, he doesn't cover the 2 gap and handle the double teams as it, and offenses would have field day running up the middle. Carter is too small to be a 3-4 DE and probably a poor OLB.

Lets stick with the 4-3 D for now, though we are #4 overall, we are much worse in terms of sacks, ints, FFs except yds given up.

What I love about the 3-4 D is its versatility and how it disguises its blitzing and coverage schemes (Pitts & Baltimore). QBs have a hard time reading who is blitzing and who is in coverage, something we currently lack or we are not executing properly. The only exotic blitz we have in our arsenal is the SS or CB blitz which arrives 5 secs late and gives up the big play.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

It's probably already been said, but you can't run a 3-4 without a massive, dominant nose tackle. Last time I checked, we don't have one.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

^^ damn fine first post there hamoskinz . .welcome aboard.

and nice insight/opinion there freddyg, never really thought of that. makes sense to me, id like to see some kinda data or fact based analysis on it.

go skins!!

4:11 pm is the new 5:00 pm. im outta here!!

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;525540]It's probably already been said, but you can't run a 3-4 without a massive, dominant nose tackle. Last time I checked, we don't have one.[/quote]

As if we didn't have enough of a positional laundry list entering the draft this year.

With our team's volatile nature the last thing we need to do is switch our only consistent aspect.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

[quote=over the mountain;525542]^^ damn fine first post there hamoskinz . .welcome aboard.[/quote]

Cheers:food-smil

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

[quote=mvb2328;525192]don't mess with a defense that is ranked 4th in the league![/quote]

Exactly......Shouldn't we be focused on the off. and possibly upgrading the defense, not changing a defense that ranked fouth in the league.
Where is our focus?

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

[quote=REDSKIN1;525606]Exactly......Shouldn't we be focused on the off. and possibly upgrading the defense, not changing a defense that ranked fouth in the league.
Where is our focus?[/quote]

Wait, we're supposed to have a focus?! SOMEBODY GET ASHBURN ON THE LINE!

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

What is the advantage of the 3-4 over the 4-3 if any?

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

it just is really confusing for the opposing qb, and seems like it allows you to get more pressure with 4 speed LBS. No one seems to wanna answer my question about Peppers or Haynesworth, only 2 more weeks till Free agency starts!

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

[quote=LandrySlice;525701]it just is really confusing for the opposing qb, and seems like it allows you to get more pressure with 4 speed LBS. No one seems to wanna answer my question about Peppers or Haynesworth, only 2 more weeks till Free agency starts![/quote]

Answer: no on both. Either guy will probably take most if not all of our FA money and we in all likelihood will address a couple of needs thru FA. We should look for value players though that will be a challenge because of the supply and demand.

The need for a DT seems less pressing as we review the oline situation and the LB corp.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

I believe the 3-4 is going to go downhill the more teams transition to it (which is what is happening). I believe a big success of the 3-4 is that the teams draft players that 3-4 teams value more than 4-3 teams so they get more value for their pick when the 4-3 teams pass over them. Also its a defense that is not seen as much so offenses are not as familiar about what to do.
However, nobody can deny its success in recent years, so it is important to ask if the Redskins switch, would it give us the same success?
I believe that it is not in the Redskins best interest to do so. Not because we dont have talent currently on our roster (between Evans, Daniels, Golston, Griffin, and Montgomery we could find 3 players to fit the DL, Rocky, Fletch, Blades on ILB, Washington, Taylor, Carter at OLB), but because of our salary cap situation I believe we NEED to cut JT AND either griffin or Washington (maybe both). Doing so I believe will either definitely completely screw over our OLB's or will cripple our LB's and DL enough to make a very week front 7. We do not know who will do well in the 3-4 and we need to have enough options to give us security...a defense is only as strong as its weakest player.
And we cannot buy players to fit our system because I believe that our O-line is the number one priority right now. Due to poor performance and an ancient age, we need to get young talent on the OL NOW.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

[quote=BeastsoftheNFCeast;525714]I believe the 3-4 is going to go downhill the more teams transition to it (which is what is happening). I [B]believe a big success of the 3-4 is that the teams draft players that 3-4 teams value more than 4-3 teams so they get more value for their pick when the 4-3 teams pass over them.[/B] Also its a defense that is not seen as much so offenses are not as familiar about what to do.
However, nobody can deny its success in recent years, so it is important to ask if the Redskins switch, would it give us the same success?
I believe that it is not in the Redskins best interest to do so. Not because we dont have talent currently on our roster (between Evans, Daniels, Golston, Griffin, and Montgomery we could find 3 players to fit the DL, Rocky, Fletch, Blades on ILB, Washington, Taylor, Carter at OLB), but because of our salary cap situation I believe we NEED to cut JT AND either griffin or Washington (maybe both). Doing so I believe will either definitely completely screw over our OLB's or will cripple our LB's and DL enough to make a very week front 7. We do not know who will do well in the 3-4 and we need to have enough options to give us security...a defense is only as strong as its weakest player.
And we cannot buy players to fit our system because I believe that our O-line is the number one priority right now. Due to poor performance and an ancient age, we need to get young talent on the OL NOW.[/quote]

That's similar to what I said earlier, most notably the Skins have passed on a lot of 3-4 OLB/DEs in years when we drafted defense high, e.g. Merriman & Ware in 05. I know that those guys didn't fit the mold of our 4-3, neither did guys like Woodley, who was rated high at one point, then dropped to the 2nd round.

Teams that play the 3-4 well seem to be getting great production from these tweener guys. I think they're as much or more key to it than the nose tackle. btw, J. Ratcliff of Dallas isn't that big but he's quick & strong. Maybe he's not a good example of a 3-4 NT but he's the only smaller one I can think of that's any good.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

[quote=freddyg12;525719]That's similar to what I said earlier, most notably the Skins have passed on a lot of 3-4 OLB/DEs in years when we drafted defense high, e.g. Merriman & Ware in 05. I know that those guys didn't fit the mold of our 4-3, neither did guys like Woodley, who was rated high at one point, then dropped to the 2nd round.

Teams that play the 3-4 well seem to be getting great production from these tweener guys. I think they're as much or more key to it than the nose tackle. btw, J. Ratcliff of Dallas isn't that big but he's quick & strong. Maybe he's not a good example of a 3-4 NT but he's the only smaller one I can think of that's any good.[/quote]

I do believe a big nose tackle is a key cog. All the teams that have success have a key cog nose tackle. (look no further than the ravens and steelers) But it's just one of the pieces of the puzzle, the tweener OLB's are also a key ingredient. (btw, I wouldnt use anyone from dallas as an example...their defense might put up sacks, but point wise they are terrible.)

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

I like our D the way it is. If we could get more pass rush we'd all be happy. I see np need to go to the 3-4

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

yea, if we got to the QB more, as other 4-3 teams do ... no1 wouldnt be thinking/complaining about switching.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

Hope this explains a little better or perhaps reiterates what everyone is saying:

[B][url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80ea8c1d&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true]Changing a base defense not as easy as 1, 2, 3-4[/url][/B]

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

Man, first off, don't fix nothin' that ain't broke. why switch to a 3-4 when our 4-3 was ranked 4th in the league in D this year?

2nd, the teams makin the switch this year (packers and someone else) all have a lot of draft picks, and a coach that understands the 3-4 Defense.

3rd, we don't have the draft picks required to make the transition to a 3-4 defense, nor enough current personnel to make it work....we'd need to draft several LBs, plus all a hoss of a DT, which we don't have.....

Basically, we gotta finish piecin' together our offense first before we start re-vamping our defense....i think if we get a great OL FA, then draft 2 OL this year, we should be pretty set, and could spend our 1-3 round picks next year on our front 7

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

^ i cant agree with not upgrading both THIS off-season.

both lines need some kind of help O more than D but still... you do NOT flat ignore the front 7 right now.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

[quote=freddyg12;525719]That's similar to what I said earlier, most notably the Skins have passed on a lot of 3-4 OLB/DEs in years when we drafted defense high, e.g. Merriman & Ware in 05. I know that those guys didn't fit the mold of our 4-3, neither did guys like Woodley, who was rated high at one point, then dropped to the 2nd round.

[B]Teams that play the 3-4 well seem to be getting great production from these tweener guys.[/B] I think they're as much or more key to it than the nose tackle. btw, J. Ratcliff of Dallas isn't that big but he's quick & strong. Maybe he's not a good example of a 3-4 NT but he's the only smaller one I can think of that's any good.[/quote]

Not sure whether that has been noted here before but that seems very insightful to me. Not to say these "tweeners" don't/can't make great LBs in the 4-3 system but I think they're passed up as OLBs in the 4-3 system cause maybe they're seen as being a little too big to be effective in coverage or something. That's just a guess.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

[quote=Meks;526157]^ i cant agree with not upgrading both THIS off-season.

both lines need some kind of help O more than D but still... you do NOT flat ignore the front 7 right now.[/quote]

I'm not sure there's a whole lot to do w/ the d-line this year. First off, as GTripp has suggested our d-line is basically set up to stop the run more than anything, and we do that extremely well. I'm saying it doesn't really appear our d-tackles are expected to get to the QB all the time, though it would be nice, instead we see them plug gaps first and then push toward the QB if it's a pass. That leaves the ends and honestly I think we all we're a little disappointed this season. AC had 10 or 11 sacks in '07 but just a few in '08 - that really surprised me. Obviously Taylor was disappointing and then Evans really seemed to slow down in the second half of the season. However, i'm not sure there's much to be improved at the DE position either. AC is set at his position, hopefully he can have another "up year" in '09. Evans is still young enough, and still gaining more experience through playing more, than maybe we can expect and bigger year from him too. But basically there isn't some amazing DE on the market to solve all our problems. It's a high demand limited supply position this year which means Peppers will command big dough and my best guess is we could do better spending our FA money elsewhere to help the d... at SLB. A badass on the strong side will do more for our pass rush than a DT or DE IMHO. Remember Marcus provided sacks and QB pressure before he slowed down. A nice upgrade to replace him, like Suggs, would be awesome.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

^ i see ur point... and agree with suggs, i'd like a bigger, badder DT as well honestly...

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

This blog got me looking at all our players again. We have a lot of players around the same size at each different position DE, DT, and LB. I hope I wrote that right. LOL. If any of the young guys could not get injured and actually step up talent wise, then I think we will be ok on D. The problem is injuries and talent.

DT:
Griffin: 6-3 311, 9yrs playing.
Evans: 6-4 275, 7yrs playing.
Boschetti: 6-4 311, 5yrs playing.
Montgomery: 6-6 315, 3yrs playing.
Golston: 6-4 320, 3yrs playing.
Alexander: 6-1 300, 2yrs playing.

The only one I question is Griffin. Is he going to be cut for money or any other reason?

DE:
Daniells: I assume cut. 13yrs playing. Injury prone.
Carter: 6-4 252, 8yrs playing.
Wilson: 6-4 246, 2yrs playing.
Buzbee: 6-3 265, 1yr playing. I think he was injured last yr.
Rob Jackson: 6-4 259, R. Unknown.

I honestly think we are short at DE now that I look at it.

LB:
J.Taylor: 6-5 244, 12yrs playing. He should be listed under DE's. Possible cut $.
Fletcher: 5-10 245, 11yrs playing. A few good yrs left.
Washington: 6-3 248, 9yrs playing. injury prone. Possible cut $.
Campbell: 6-2 232, 7yrs playing.
Fincher: 6-1 238, 3yrs playing.
McIntosh: 6-2 232, 3yrs playing.
Rian Wallace: 6-3 243, 3yrs playing.
Blades: 5-10 250, 2yrs playing.
Sinclair: 6-2 245, 2yrs playing.
Tyson Smith: 6-2 250, 2yrs playing.

Out of this batch I can see Taylor, Washington possibly being let go. That's 2 out of 10.
I'm terrible with who plays ILB and OLB so maybe we will need to fill certain spots.

Also we picked up some people at the end of the season who are on these lists and not sure how they will pan out.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

I wouldn't be so quick to assume Daniels will be cut. If he's 100% I think he'll be back for one more season. He's a Blache guy and he's still a pretty stout player against the run.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;526248]I wouldn't be so quick to assume Daniels will be cut. If he's 100% I think he'll be back for one more season. He's a Blache guy and he's still a pretty stout player against the run.[/quote]

Yes. I couldn't remember if it was Griffin or Daniels who is always injured, every year. One of them is not to bad even though they have yrs playing.

I think it also boils down to $ and how much they will reap by cutting someone.

Re: I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.
 

Thought this would be perfect article for this thread

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80ea8c1d&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true]Changing a base defense not as easy as 1, 2, 3-4[/url]