Re: Comparative Federal Tax Contribution by State
 

Pfff, if you have medical bills I'm inclined to understand your plight but the rest of the people in debt are in debt out of their own accord. People who want to be debt free will have no problem borrowing money to buy that gizmo and get right back into debt. I mean, you have billionaires with debt! Instant gratification is human nature. There's also levels of debt...auto, home, and credit cards. Home debt you can't really do much about, auto and cc you can.

Re: Comparative Federal Tax Contribution by State
 

[quote=firstdown;526841]You picked New Orleans as your example? Wow poor choice. That is a fine example of how the federal goverment waist money. If the money was just giving to the people we would have done a better job then all the waist that started withe federal goverment down to the cities in NO. So now you want to tear down the city bput it on some giant float and then rebuild the city on this floating island. I think Obama needs to up the stimulas to 6 billion to float that project.[/quote]


The city is already destroyed. They can employ workers from outside the state as well. You would not need to float every square inch of land. Only Roads, buildings, houses, and utilities. Its a thought not a save all. What have you come up with Mr. Critic?

Re: Comparative Federal Tax Contribution by State
 

[quote=Angry;526846]The city is already destroyed. They can employ workers from outside the state as well. You would not need to float every square inch of land. Only Roads, buildings, houses, and utilities. Its a thought not a save all. What have you come up with Mr. Critic?[/quote]

How about have Obama sign the bill to allow off shore drilling which is safe and in our state would create 1,200 to 2,000 jobs and cost the goverment very little. Use the tax money raised off of the off shore drilling to fund reserch for alternative fuels.

Hey not a bad post for #6000

Re: Comparative Federal Tax Contribution by State
 

As far as the overall econmy for the nation goes, [URL="http://www.brookings.edu/reports/2009/01_new_orleans_index.aspx"]New Orleans is one of the few places that's doing pretty good.[/URL]

There were jobs needed, [I]so entrepeneurs and skilled workers loaded up the truck and they headed to New Orleans.[/I]

Re: Comparative Federal Tax Contribution by State
 

[quote=firstdown;526844]I agree with the first part but I have not heard anyone saying that the current war pulled us into this current mess. My whole point is that this stimulas does not spend but about 10% into actual jobs like building roads and schools.[/quote]

How much money are we spending per month in Iraq? That is money the Government is not spending here.

As with the second part I agree that more spending should be focused on actual jobs.

Re: Comparative Federal Tax Contribution by State
 

[quote=firstdown;526848]How about have Obama sign the bill to allow off shore drilling which is safe and in our state would create 1,200 to 2,000 jobs and cost the goverment very little. Use the tax money raised off of the off shore drilling to fund reserch for alternative fuels.

Hey not a bad post for #6000[/quote]

That can also be part of the solution, I agree, but it is not a save all. But if all of these ideas get put into practice then they will combine to be the save all.

The problem is that the majority just say "That will not be enough" and decide not to do it at all. So we are stuck in neutral trying to move up a hill with our thumbs up our asses. In the end we need to do something. Let's get it started! We may not absolutely see eye to eye on all ideas, but hell lets put some things in action.

Re: Comparative Federal Tax Contribution by State
 

[quote=Angry;526863]That can also be part of the solution, I agree, but it is not a save all. But if all of these ideas get put into practice then they will combine to be the save all.

The problem is that the majority just say "That will not be enough" and decide not to do it at all. So we are stuck in neutral trying to move up a hill with our thumbs up our asses. In the end we need to do something. Let's get it started! We may not absolutely see eye to eye on all ideas, but hell lets put some things in action.[/quote]
Sorry but I do not think that passing a bill that spends 800 trillion dollars that by the presidents own words saves 4,000 jobs is worth the investment. I have said all along lets not just rush a bill through to say something was done but lets take our time and try to get the best bill through. I don't care which party has the right solution but rather they come up with a better plan. I'm not talking 6 to 12 months but a month or so to really think this through. The money going to Iraq is spent and there is nothing that we can do about that now so there is no need to have that argument again. The money that is getting spent on Iraq is creating jobs here and we also have people over there working but I agree it would be better if it was all spent here.

Re: Comparative Federal Tax Contribution by State
 

[quote=firstdown;526819]So the people who sit back and do nothing get my/our money to spend as they want while we support them even more. You say we will get a tax credit but I have not read anything explaining who will receive this tax credit.[/quote]

Like I said, whether you think that's fair or not isn't the issue. The fact remains, the poor people will spend the money right away, helping companies increase earnings, thereby creating more jobs.

As for the tax breaks, each worker will get a $400 credit, each adult non-worker will get a $250 credit, and there is relief from the dreaded Alternative Minimum Tax. Among other things. Here:

[URL="http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/13/news/economy/stimulus_individuals/index.htm?postversion=2009021312"]Stimulus measures that may help your wallet - Feb. 13, 2009[/URL]

[quote]
[B]Making Work Pay Credit:[/B] The bill provides a $400 credit per worker and a $800 credit per dual-earner couple. The full credit would be paid to people making $75,000 or less ($150,000 per dual-earner couple). A partial credit would be paid to those making above those amounts but no more than $100,000 ($200,000 for couples).
The credit would also be refundable, which means that even very low-income families who don't make enough to owe income tax would be able to claim it.
For most working individuals, the credit will be paid over time at roughly $15 per period, assuming 26 pay periods in a year. [I]Estimated cost: $116 billion.[/I]
[/quote]
[quote][B]One-time payments to those who don't work[/B]: For retirees, disabled individuals and others who don't work, the bill provides a one-time $250 payment. [I]Estimated cost: $14.2 billion.[/I][/quote]
[quote][B]Break for higher income families:[/B] The bill includes a one-year provision to protect middle- and upper-middle-income families from having to pay the Alternative Minimum Tax. The AMT was intended primarily for high-income taxpayers but has in recent years threatened to engulf those lower down the income scale. [I]Estimated cost: $70 billion.[/I][/quote]

Re: Comparative Federal Tax Contribution by State
 

[B]For most working individuals, the credit will be paid over time at roughly $15 per period, assuming 26 pay periods in a year. Estimated cost: $116 billion. [/B]

Whoo-hoo! It's like getting a free super-sized Big Mac extra value meal every week for one whole year! I'm so stimulated a cat couldn't scratch it.

Re: Comparative Federal Tax Contribution by State
 

Ok, so people are going to get $15 bucks to buy what? That money will get worked right in with all their other bills and not sure how much will go to buying any thing of substance. I guess I could go to Wal Mart and pick up some Made In China fishing equipment and take my $15 to the minimum wage cashier. Now thats stimulas.

Maybe I could hire some illegal to come cut my grass once a month.LOL

Re: Comparative Federal Tax Contribution by State
 

[quote=Angry;526826]Look at what happened during the Depression. There was the first “new deal” and the “second new deal”. The whole lets not give handouts was the thought by the government then too.

What happened? During the First new Deal they tried giving Tax cuts to the large corporations hoping that it would boost the economy and enable them to provide new jobs along with other things. Did it? No, because if it had worked there wouldn't have been a second new deal. In the second New Deal they attacked the problem at its source...The people.

The Government set up special works projects etc. so that "it wasn't a handout" but in the end they were still fighting the depression along with getting some other things taken care of. In fact 95% of our highway system was built during the depression and funded by the Government.

So you do not want to give out handouts...fine, Don't give handouts to corporations either. Lets fund a whole bunch of special projects to better the infrastructure. One particular project that comes to my mind is New Orleans. It needs to be rebuilt badly. How about, we rebuild it so well that it never has to worry about being flooded again? If man can make an Island that floats out in Southwest Asia, then we can use the same technology to float the infrastructure of New Orleans during floods and hurricanes. Think about it. That is a large project that would require a lot of workers and it isn't a handout.

But my thinking is, if you are going to give a handout, which our government did; then give it to the people not to the corporations. History has already taught us twice now that it doesn't work that way.[/quote]
One flaw in your logic is this. The New Deal didn't bring us out of the depression. WWII did. The other is that there are billions of non-stimulus provisions in this "stimulus" bill. A giant portion of it is entitlement and social support money intended to help people THROUGH the recession, not end it. Every single penny of that portion should be taking out and run through appropriations rather than smacked into the middle of a "emergency" bill that will hopefully save us from "utter and total destruction."

Re: Comparative Federal Tax Contribution by State
 

[quote=Angry;526835]Last time I checked making ammunition and weapons for the military was a special works project.

Edit: And this time War helped pull us into a depression.[/quote]
And that is total crap. The wars in Iraq and Afganistan have nothing to do with the current situation.

Re: Comparative Federal Tax Contribution by State
 

$15 != (thx Saden) $3333

Re: Comparative Federal Tax Contribution by State
 

[quote=FRPLG;526920]And that is total crap. The wars in Iraq and Afganistan have nothing to do with the current situation.[/quote]

I never said caused. I said helped. And those conflicts have more to do with the current situation than you might want to believe.

Every U.S. Service member and employee in those areas is not paying taxes. They are making more money, which in turn is giving them more disposable income. Some people may be saving up that extra money, but where do you think that most of them are spending their disposable income? It certainly isn't here in the U.S.

It may not be the cause of, but it isn't helping. The bright side is that once these guys are all back, they will be doing some heavy spending.

Re: Comparative Federal Tax Contribution by State
 

Obama promised people he would help them fill up their tank, the $15 a week is more than enough help to do that. You can even splurge and buy an extra gallon of milk or two now that gas prices are lower.

Let's not try to coerce a square peg into a round hole. I assure you though that the $15 will be spent. If you give people chump change, they will spend it, if you give them $3333 they're more likely to payoff bills and save the rest. You guys do understand this point don't you? There's [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_accounting"]science and research[/URL] behind this type of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing"]thinking[/URL].

Re: Comparative Federal Tax Contribution by State
 

one question, if i am in the low-middle class bracket (which i am), and i get $400 dollars this year, what is the amount of tax debt I am getting myself into?
If i am getting 400 and over 10 years have to pay back 1000, then i can accept that i guess, but if i am getting 400, and over 10years have to pay back 20,000, then not so much.
Also, I am assuming that this 790Million dollars does just go straight into debt correct, and that the true government budget, will be on top of this stimulus?

Re: Comparative Federal Tax Contribution by State
 

[quote=Angry;526926]I never said caused. I said helped. And those conflicts have more to do with the current situation than you might want to believe.

Every U.S. Service member and employee in those areas is not paying taxes. They are making more money, which in turn is giving them more disposable income. Some people may be saving up that extra money, but where do you think that most of them are spending their disposable income? It certainly isn't here in the U.S.

It may not be the cause of, but it isn't helping. The bright side is that once these guys are all back, they will be doing some heavy spending.[/quote]
That money is coming back here and I see that everytime a ship pulls into port. Not sure of the % but alot of these guys are married and their checks get deposited here at home in the USA. I live in Tidewater Va. and I'm surrounded by the millitary so I see it everyday. You also bring up that they do not pay taxes on that money so they have more to spend.

Re: Comparative Federal Tax Contribution by State
 

[quote=firstdown;526937]That money is coming back here and I see that everytime a ship pulls into port. Not sure of the % but alot of these guys are married and their checks get deposited here at home in the USA. I live in Tidewater Va. and I'm surrounded by the millitary so I see it everyday. You also bring up that they do not pay taxes on that money so they have more to spend.[/quote]

White Flag...I give up. I was making a smart assed remark about War pulling us into a depression because you give credit to a War pulling us out. Neither statment is entirely correct. It was the jobs created by the government that pulled us out of the depression. The fact that there was a war going on only dictated the type of jobs that were created.


This is going no where fast and I'm tired of discussing it.

By the way War isn't pulling us out of a depression now is it? We have been at war for 8 years and the economy still went into the toilet.