Re: lets discuss the free agents we really dont want and why!
 

[quote=The Goat;530046]Canty.

1) He's a Cowboy
2) Already set put do a massive, catastrophic upgrade on the d-line and oh yeah still have pretty damn good ends w/ Taylor, Carter, and Evans
3) Would like to use any FA money that might be spent on Canty to add starters, depth to the OL and LB corp... I want Brown, Willis, June or Boley or Crowell, and Bart Scott all before Canty.
4) He's an f'ing Cowboy.[/quote]

hopefully we can draft orakpo. I rather get an OL guy before a DE in free agency if we're getting haynesworth. then draft orakpo, and two OL guys (one with our 3rd, one with the late 2nd/early 3rd from letting golston go).

we'd still have enough cash to sign hall and get an average (cheap) FA LB as a stopgap.

Re: lets discuss the free agents we really dont want and why!
 

[quote=Ruhskins;529920]Why are we discussing Vick, dude is not even out of jail nor has he been reinstated to the league.[/quote]

Because he is going to get out, he is going to be reinstated, and he is a talented player that is basically up for grabs when the time comes. Regardless of where he goes it is interesting conversation. This is a Football forum.

He is also going to put up more points than Albert Haynesworth, and we cannot shut up about him.

Re: lets discuss the free agents we really dont want and why!
 

[url=http://www.ajc.com/services/content/sports/falcons/stories/2009/02/26/michael_vick_atlanta_falcons.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=21]Official: Vick OK'd to go home | ajc.com[/url]

Re: lets discuss the free agents we really dont want and why!
 

[quote=Angry;529855]I disagree with your observations on these 2 areas.

First off, many of Vicks passes would hit recievers in the hands or the numbers and they wouldn't catch the ball.

Secondly, Vick much like our own JC had several offenses to learn over a short period of time. The one offense that he spent the most time in was a version of the WCO ran by Jim Mora Jr. He has had plenty of time to mull over the WCO. I'm sure he's got it.

While in the WCO Vick's only reliable target was Crumpler. The two of them thrived together. Crumpler was a Pro Bowler with Vick throwing to him. What has Crumpler done without Vick? I believe that if you give Vick some halfway decent recievers, then you have a sick offense both in the passing and the running game.

Now Vick might have some issues throwing to the smaller recievers like Moss just like JC does. They both need bigger targets to be successfull, but one is a dual threat and the other doesn't even know how to slide.[/quote]

well said.

Re: lets discuss the free agents we really dont want and why!
 

[quote=Angry;529908]I still Blame that on the recievind corps. They could not catch. [/quote]

Maybe the year he threw 56% you could argue that but when a QB throws 52% and even 50% during his shortened season, well thats not just a problem with his recievers. Thats a QB problem. The most you can spot him is probably 3%-5% points and the upper part of that is stretching it. However if you demanded perfection for your recievers then you could consideerably boost your completion percentage but in 2008 the lowest number of drops was 13. The highest was 38 (JAX), in which case if all 38 passes were caught Garrards completion percentage would go up a little over 7% from 62% to 69% but thats just not realistic to expect a team to not have any dropped passes.

Re: lets discuss the free agents we really dont want and why!
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;530283]Maybe the year he threw 56% you could argue that but when a QB throws 52% and even 50% during his shortened season, well thats not just a problem with his recievers. Thats a QB problem. The most you can spot him his probably 3%-5% points and the upper part of that is stretching it. Plus you can't count on going a season without drops from pass catchers.[/quote]

I guess that maybe you need to see it first hand before you can truly understand what I'm talking about. It is not much of an exaggeration when I say that they dropped almost everything. It's unfortunate that youtube does not have lowlight videos on NFL players.

To put it into perspective do you remember our game against the Packers the season before last and how many balls our recievers dropped? That is what Vick went through almost every game. All of the Falcon's fans knew it too.

If you look at some of the videos of Vick's abbreviated training camp 2 seasons ago you will see his accuracy. Also, if you read the posts under the video's you will see people clowning about how the recievers were finally catching passes.

I will completely ignor any comments about how terrible he was at the QB competetion before he was convicted. He obviously hasd alot of S**t on his mind. I give him a pass.

Re: lets discuss the free agents we really dont want and why!
 

some people aren't worth arguing with.

seriously, if you think vick's the second coming, and his terrible stats over his entire career somehow aren't his fault AT ALL, more power to you, but to me he's just an electric (and fumble prone) running back that can throw and never lived up to the hype. he'll be out, but even if he gets back in the nfl, it'll be for pennies and i don't expect he'll have any more success this time around.

mcnabb had terrible receivers, so did drew brees, it's not like he's the ONLY guy in the history of the NFL to have crap WRs... but the other QBs were actually, you know, good, so they made it work.

Re: lets discuss the free agents we really dont want and why!
 

[quote=That Guy;530489]some people aren't worth arguing with.

seriously, if you think vick's the second coming, and his terrible stats over his entire career somehow aren't his fault AT ALL, more power to you, but to me he's just an electric (and fumble prone) running back that can throw and never lived up to the hype. he'll be out, but even if he gets back in the nfl, it'll be for pennies and i don't expect he'll have any more success this time around.

mcnabb had terrible receivers, so did drew brees, it's not like he's the ONLY guy in the history of the NFL to have crap WRs... but the other QBs were actually, you know, good, so they made it work.[/quote]

Never said Vick was the second coming, honestly where do you get this stuff? In all honesty this time around I am more interested in him as a slash player. Maybe a backup or a temp fix until Brennan or the next big thing is ready to start. If JC comes back then cool.

It took both of those QB's 6 and 4 years respectably to put up numbers considerably better than Vicks (% and passer rating). Neither of them missed an entire season (early in their careers) due to injury either.

Every QB develops at a different pace and some good ones later in their life and/or careers ie Kurt Warner, Randall Cunningham, Roger Staubach, Trent Green, Rich Gannon, Kerry Collins to name a few. Notice that I said good and not great outstanding or excellent.

I am not calling Vick great, but he is not as bad as you guys are making him out to be either. I feel that he could be cheap and he can help any team in more ways than one. Not just a a passer.

Now since you believe that I am not worth arguing with "Airman", I will not be expecting a reply.

Re: lets discuss the free agents we really dont want and why!
 

is that name calling? are we in 5th grade?

look, you're saying A) yeah, so what if other QBs were better, vick missed a season (which is, i believe, another excuse). and you're saying the skins should sign him? seriously? how can you sign him as a temp fix when he doesn't/wouldn't actually fix anything??

um, no thanks.

besides, those guys that developed later on studied playbooks and learned their systems - something that vick's coaches have always knocked him on for either A) no being up to it, or B) thinking he was good enough without the extra effort. That and a few years playing with the prison system don't set a good track record for late career success.

and why i say the argument isn't worth the time, it that i already know vick's a dead end, and you're convinced (you "know") he's not. All I see are excuses for why he sucked, but somehow it's not his fault. I doubt you're changing you mind either, cause if you were, the whole years of not being good in the NFL and prison/dog thing would have already swayed you.

so it's pretty pointless.

Re: lets discuss the free agents we really dont want and why!
 

[quote=That Guy;530542]is that name calling? are we in 5th grade?

look, you're saying A) yeah, so what if other QBs were better, vick missed a season (which is, i believe, another excuse). and you're saying the skins should sign him? seriously? how can you sign him as a temp fix when he doesn't/wouldn't actually fix anything??

um, no thanks.

besides, those guys that developed later on studied playbooks and learned their systems - something that vick's coaches have always knocked him on for either A) no being up to it, or B) thinking he was good enough without the extra effort. That and a few years playing with the prison system good set a good track record for late career success.[/quote]

Never thought of it as name calling, but I guess it is huh. LOL!

As far as the "temp fix when he doesn't/wouldn't actually fix anything" phrase goes. I happen to believe that our weakness is on the offensive side. Mostly the offensive line, but outside of Moss there is no other reciever production (Cooley not included) and outside of Portis there is no out of the backfield production. I believe that in addition to being a backup QB he could help us those areas as well as be a return man. He would be cheap and he could help so long as we address the Oline. And if somewhere down the line we needed him to fill in at QB he could be an option. He is just too good of an Athlete to not take a "cheap chance on" especially if no one else will. [B]Note: that I am not talking about gimmick plays either[/B]. I am talking about lining him up as a receiver and/or using him out of the backfield. If the opportunity for him to play QB arises, then I am confident in his abilities.

Re: lets discuss the free agents we really dont want and why!
 

[quote=Angry;530546]Never thought of it as name calling, but I guess it is huh. LOL!

As far as the "temp fix when he doesn't/wouldn't actually fix anything" phrase goes. I happen to believe that our weakness is on the offensive side. Mostly the offensive line, but outside of Moss there is no other reciever production (Cooley not included) and outside of Portis there is no out of the backfield production. I believe that in addition to being a backup QB he could help us those areas as well as be a return man. He would be cheap and he could help so long as we address the Oline. And if somewhere down the line we needed him to fill in at QB he could be an option. He is just too good of an Athlete to not take a "cheap chance on" especially if no one else will. [B]Note: that I am not talking about gimmick plays either[/B]. I am talking about lining him up as a receiver and/or using him out of the backfield. If the opportunity for him to play QB arises, then I am confident in his abilities.[/quote]

see, that seems a lot more reasonable.

the problem is, i don't think he's had enough experience to be a good enough receiver and i don't think he'd make a great return man (more prone to injuries and he fumbles a lot). I definitely think he has the speed and moves for it, but getting hit repeatedly, holding the ball, and staying in the game aren't really his strong suits.

Re: lets discuss the free agents we really dont want and why!
 

[quote=That Guy;530548]see, that seems a lot more reasonable.

the problem is, i don't think he's had enough experience to be a good enough receiver and i don't think he'd make a great return man (more prone to injuries and he fumbles a lot). I definitely think he has the speed and moves for it, but getting hit repeatedly, holding the ball, and staying in the game aren't really his strong suits.[/quote]

Most of his fumbles were as a passer though. Many could have been prevented by tucking the football which QB's do not do enough of. As far as getting hit. He would be taking less shots in those positions. In reality if you think of using him the way that I do. It's worth the risk vs. reward factor. And in the end if he becomes a solid QB, then it's a hell of a bonus.

I appologize if I wasn't that clear at first, I was under the impression that you were aware of my previous posts on Vick in other threads. I was backing up his QB ability on this thread, but I was voicing these same thoughts about him playing other positions on different threads.

Re: lets discuss the free agents we really dont want and why!
 

Why don't we turn this into the Michael Vick thread? It's been very amusing reading all of this, especially about a guy in jail. LOL.

Re: lets discuss the free agents we really dont want and why!
 

[quote=Ruhskins;530559]Why don't we turn this into the Michael Vick thread? It's been very amusing reading all of this, especially about a guy in jail. LOL.[/quote]

Where have you been? We already have and you a partially to blame.

Re: lets discuss the free agents we really dont want and why!
 

[quote=Angry;530560]Where have you been? We already have and you a partially to blame.[/quote]

I've been too distracted by the excitement of the upcoming free agency period at midnight! LOL.

Re: lets discuss the free agents we really dont want and why!
 

[quote=Ruhskins;530562]I've been too distracted by the excitement of the upcoming free agency period at midnight! LOL.[/quote]

Aren't we all, but I have ran out of beer and I am creeping closer and closer to the bed. I hope I can make it another hour and 20 minutes.

Re: lets discuss the free agents we really dont want and why!
 

[quote=Angry;530564]Aren't we all, but I have ran out of beer and I am creeping closer and closer to the bed. I hope I can make it another hour and 20 minutes.[/quote]

Try Red Bull and Vodka, that will keep you awake...or give you a heart attack, I forgot which one is correct. LOL.