Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=irish;533749]Vinny & Co. never learn their lesson just look at this offseason. The Skins are back to their free spending ways for players I am afraid at the end of the day wont make much of a difference. I'd have rather had them get 4 $20 mil lineman instead of 1 for $100mil. As long as DS & Vinny are in charge this team will continue to rule the off season and be also-rans once the season starts.[/quote]

The team has gotten rid of older players (Washington, Springs, possibly Kendall) and brought young players (Haynesworth, Dock, adn Hall). The old Skins would have given Jason Taylor a new fat contract last year, and this year they would have overpaid for TJ Housh this year. Not to mention that the team is building through the draft (3 young receivers last year, and the possibility of a stud o-lineman this year). While making a splash by signing Haynesworth is very Snyderesque, I think they are slowly learning.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

i think they should remake the movie 300 and cast JT as the persian king....xerxis or however its spelt. does he or does he not look that that ugly POS who had Leonidias KILLED?

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=dall-assblows;533789]i think they should remake the movie 300 and cast JT as the persian king....xerxis or however its spelt. does he or does he not look that that ugly POS who had Leonidias KILLED?[/quote]

lol yeah pretty [URL="http://thecia.com.au/reviews/1/images/300-4.jpg"]similar[/URL]

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=Mattyk72;533790]lol yeah pretty [URL="http://thecia.com.au/reviews/1/images/300-4.jpg"]similar[/URL][/quote]

Taylor could have bought more bling than that guy with the $8.5

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

Beat it twinkel toe.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=Ruhskins;533785]The team has gotten rid of older players (Washington, Springs, possibly Kendall) and brought young players (Haynesworth, Dock, adn Hall). The old Skins would have given Jason Taylor a new fat contract last year, and this year they would have overpaid for TJ Housh this year. Not to mention that the team is building through the draft (3 young receivers last year, and the possibility of a stud o-lineman this year). While making a splash by signing Haynesworth is very Snyderesque, I think they are slowly learning.[/quote]

You know, that's a good point. If we would have seen Ray Lewis, Housh and a 3 year extension for Springs and Taylor then I could definitely sign off on 'same old Redskins' but like John Clayton said, since when is signing the best defensive lineman in the league a bad thing? There's a lot of prejudice when it comes to free agency that we buy into. I'm not trying to be a Snyderatto apologist but just because we spent a lot of $ (2 players with Redskins pedigree no less) doesn't equate to same old same old.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=Paintrain;533818]You know, that's a good point. If we would have seen Ray Lewis, Housh and a 3 year extension for Springs and Taylor then I could definitely sign off on 'same old Redskins' but like John Clayton said, since when is signing the best defensive lineman in the league a bad thing? There's a lot of prejudice when it comes to free agency that we buy into. I'm not trying to be a Snyderatto apologist but just because we spent a lot of $ (2 players with Redskins pedigree no less) doesn't equate to same old same old.[/quote]

good post

apologist...that is something I have never understood..

why people who get excited about the buzz of being a fan of a team..that actually tries to win it all..that they should be monolithic? Free Agency is a blast in the middle of the stinking winter

I dig what Snyder does to get attention and make the team better..there's no place where I need to apologize for that..no other team.. their fans.. or journalist I need to explain that to

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=irish;533749]Vinny & Co. never learn their lesson just look at this offseason. The Skins are back to their free spending ways for players I am afraid at the end of the day wont make much of a difference. I'd have rather had them get 4 $20 mil lineman instead of 1 for $100mil. As long as DS & Vinny are in charge this team will continue to rule the off season and be also-rans once the season starts.[/quote]

Well you have to realize that the contract isn't 100 mil it's really 4 years for 48 mil or something like that. Either way it's a shit load of money for a DT and one guy isn't going to make a huge difference ( unless it's a QB) so I agree with you. This isn't basketball. I like what the Giants are doing. Add some less expensive pieces to an already good team.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=Paintrain;533818]You know, that's a good point. If we would have seen Ray Lewis, Housh and a 3 year extension for Springs and Taylor then I could definitely sign off on 'same old Redskins' but like John Clayton said, since when is signing the best defensive lineman in the league a bad thing? There's a lot of prejudice when it comes to free agency that we buy into. I'm not trying to be a Snyderatto apologist but just because we spent a lot of $ (2 players with Redskins pedigree no less) doesn't equate to same old same old.[/quote]

It's not a bad thing if there isn't going to be a salary cap. But if there is one then I'm not paying a DT 12 mil a year. One DT doesn't impact a game the way a QB does and he's getting paid Tom Brady money.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=skinsfan69;533859]Well you have to realize that the contract isn't 100 mil it's really 4 years for 48 mil or something like that. Either way it's a *** load of money for a DT and one guy isn't going to make a huge difference ( unless it's a QB) so I agree with you. This isn't basketball. [B]I like what the Giants are doing. Add some less expensive pieces to an already good team[/B].[/quote]

Ya know, I have never been anti-Giants, but I swear after listening to so many members here gush at the Giants off season moves I think I may :vomit:.
Recapping:
they now have 7 starting linemen all with solid salary cap numbers, not all 7 can play at once, a good 2nd year safety, so they go out and add a safety, don't do anything for their cornerback position. and on offense they let one of their EWF crew go to another team, don't upgrade the line(backups), don't upgrade receivers.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=Paintrain;533818]You know, that's a good point. If we would have seen Ray Lewis, Housh and a 3 year extension for Springs and Taylor then I could definitely sign off on 'same old Redskins' but like John Clayton said, since when is signing the best defensive lineman in the league a bad thing? There's a lot of prejudice when it comes to free agency that we buy into. I'm not trying to be a Snyderatto apologist but just because we spent a lot of $ (2 players with Redskins pedigree no less) doesn't equate to same old same old.[/quote]

Very well said. The issue in the past was a) trading draft picks for mediocre/ washed up players and b) signing mediocre/washed up players who didn't improve the team. Indeed, a lot of these high profile moves famously and disastrously flopped. But that doesn't mean there is something inherently wrong with signing big name free agents, it just means you have to sign the right ones. People seem to forget about the 07 Patriots trading 3 draft picks for wide receivers including a famous malcontent, overpaying another underachieving receiver, and breaking the bank on Adalius Thomas...and proceeding to go 16-0! My point being that, as obvious as it sounds, signing good players makes your team better! Signing bad players doesn't! And does anyone really not think Haynesworth is going to be good?

Interestingly it was the Jason Taylor trade that epitomized the "old-Skins" and yet that move didn't prompt nearly the media vitriol that this year's splurge has.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=terpsez11;533830]good post

apologist...that is something I have never understood..

why people who get excited about the buzz of being a fan of a team..that actually tries to win it all..that they should be monolithic? Free Agency is a blast in the middle of the stinking winter

I dig what Snyder does to get attention and make the team better..there's no place where I need to apologize for that..no other team.. their fans.. or journalist I need to explain that to[/quote]

I guess one could argue if what DS is doing really makes the team better. IMO it doesnt since signing big $ FAs hasnt gotten the team anywhere.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=skinsfan69;533859]Well you have to realize that the contract isn't 100 mil it's really 4 years for 48 mil or something like that. Either way it's a shit load of money for a DT and one guy isn't going to make a huge difference ( unless it's a QB) so I agree with you. This isn't basketball. I like what the Giants are doing. Add some less expensive pieces to an already good team.[/quote]

IMO for that kind of $ they could have rebuilt the entire line instead of just plugging in 1 player who like you said isnt really going to make much of a difference. If they had to spend that $ I'd have liked to see them take a run at Cassell. That is the position that is really holding this team back.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;533867]Ya know, I have never been anti-Giants, but I swear after listening to so many members here gush at the Giants off season moves I think I may :vomit:.
Recapping:
they now have 7 starting linemen all with solid salary cap numbers, not all 7 can play at once, a good 2nd year safety, so they go out and add a safety, don't do anything for their cornerback position. and on offense they let one of their EWF crew go to another team, don't upgrade the line(backups), don't upgrade receivers.[/quote]

I'm with you CRedskinsRule, I don't get it either.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=irish;533878][B]IMO for that kind of $ they could have rebuilt the entire line instead of just plugging in 1 player who like you said isnt really going to make much of a difference[/B]. If they had to spend that $ I'd have liked to see them take a run at Cassell. That is the position that is really holding this team back.[/quote]

Huh, come on back to earth dude. An entire line..? For a four year deal for 48 mil, since when....? Your out of touch with reality on price tags. Just look around the league at what some of the other upper tier FA player contracts reeled in.

For what logical reason is AH (The BEST DT in the league) not going to be a difference maker for the SKINS?

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

He never seemed like he wanted to be here anytime he was on video anyways.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;533886]Huh, come on back to earth dude. An entire line..? For a four year deal for 48 mil, since when....? Your out of touch with reality on price tags. Just look around the league at what some of the other upper tier FA player contracts reeled in.

For what logical reason is AH (The BEST DT in the league) not going to be a difference maker for the SKINS?[/quote]

I mis-spoke when I said rebuild. I wasnt talking about loading up the line with upper tier players. I was talking about bringing in mid tier guys that can be in a position to outplay their contract. There is no way AH can outplay his contract.

I dont have a problem with the AH signing, I just think the $ could have been spend on more players that could have had a larger group impact.

I think AH can be a good player for the Skins but he's not going to be the difference in this team getting to the playoff. This team doesnt score points and AH isnt going to change that. Getting Cassell might have changed that.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=irish;533896]I mis-spoke when I said rebuild. wasnt talking about loading up the line with upper tier players. I was talking about bringing in mid tier guys that can be in a position to outplay their contract. There is no way AH can outplay his contract.

I think AH can be a good player for the Skins but he's not going to be the difference in this team getting to the playoff. [B]This team doesnt score points and AH isnt going to change that[/B].[/quote]

Actually, I will predict with confidence that we will see more pick six'es directly due to these free agency signings then we had all last season. and again, I can think of several games where a pick six would have turned the tide for us (and one SB where it definitely was a key in the win)

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;533897]Actually, I will predict with confidence that we will see more pick six'es directly due to these free agency signings then we had all last season. and again, I can think of several games where a pick six would have turned the tide for us (and one SB where it definitely was a key in the win)[/quote]

It wouldnt take much to improve on last season's pick 6 total so I predict your prediction will come true.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=irish;533896]I mis-spoke when I said rebuild. I wasnt talking about loading up the line with upper tier players. I was talking about bringing in mid tier guys that can be in a position to outplay their contract. There is no way AH can outplay his contract.

I dont have a problem with the AH signing, I just think the $ could have been spend on more players that could have had a larger group impact.

I think AH can be a good player for the Skins but he's not going to be the difference in this team getting to the playoff. This team doesnt score points and AH isnt going to change that. [B]Getting Cassell might have changed that[/B].[/quote]

not if he is going to have a larger salary cap hit, where would we build the larger group impact that you spoke of?

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=irish;533899]It wouldnt take much to improve on last season's pick 6 total so I predict your prediction will come true.[/quote]

Yeah i figured that was a real safe one there :D

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

you can look on his blog and see that they don't like each other in an interview. seriously, he drills him on old school movies and he couldn't even give a quote of caddyshack or top gun...JT is a douchbag.

by the way, cooley is a lifelong Broncos fan, but now that he has been a redskin, he loves them. He said he was also hazed...and he had all his clothes stolen...and had to sing the redskins fight song completely before he could get his clothes back...that's a team baby. haha.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;533900]not if he is going to have a larger salary cap hit, where would we build the larger group impact that you spoke of?[/quote]

Cassell is a pro style QB that IMO could come in and get this O into gear and scoring points. The cap doesnt matter, the FO can flim flam those numbers however they want to make him fit it they really wanted.

On either line.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

Cassell is gone anyways, going to the crappy chiefs...looks we are stuck with a mediocre JC for now, until people start chanting colt brennan in the stands...then we've got another doug williams situation on our hands with that contraversy.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=irish;533906]Cassell is a pro style QB that IMO could come in and get this O into gear and scoring points. The cap doesnt matter, the FO can flim flam those numbers however they want to make him fit it they really wanted.

On either line.[/quote]

Please he was on a team that went 16-0 and the team finished 11-5. obviously he can't handle pro offenses.

I've no clue how good Cassell is, but you said you wanted to re work the lines and then edited it to include getting Cassell. So mainly your gripe is JC, but we are not replacing him this year period, would be a ridiculous proposition, so instead they went out and got top quality at positions we are weak at and that is a good proposition. Cassell would no more win us three games (he lost NE 5) then AH will, but our D should be dominating enough and that a modest improvement in our offense, which we should see or Zorn will be to blame, should lead to dramatic results.

They are serving Koolaid and Ice Cream again!!!!! :)

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

Yep that's alot of cabbage but I'm pretty darn glad that he showed his lack of heart now and not later when the season started, because it would surface real quick. I guess ole Parcels knew a thing or two about this guy. About missing his family...there's a bunch or people spread thoughout the world wearing military uniforms that miss their families every day for months at a time. Looked like a great signing after Daniels went down...however...and it's not Snyder's fault.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=irish;533896]I mis-spoke when I said rebuild. I wasnt talking about loading up the line with upper tier players. I was talking about bringing in mid tier guys that can be in a position to outplay their contract. There is no way AH can outplay his contract.

I dont have a problem with the AH signing, I just think the $ could have been spend on more players that could have had a larger group impact.

I think AH can be a good player for the Skins but he's not going to be the difference in this team getting to the playoff. This team doesnt score points and AH isnt going to change that. Getting Cassell might have changed that.[/quote]Speaking of mid-level quarterbacks who won't help and might hurt the Skins, but you would support getting anyway, I hear Derek Anderson is available. Should we go after him?

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=irish;533896]I mis-spoke when I said rebuild. I wasnt talking about loading up the line with upper tier players. I was talking about bringing in mid tier guys that can be in a position to outplay their contract. There is no way AH can outplay his contract.

I dont have a problem with the AH signing, I just think the $ could have been spend on more players that could have had a larger group impact.

I think AH can be a good player for the Skins but he's not going to be the difference in this team getting to the playoff. This team doesnt score points and AH isnt going to change that. Getting Cassell might have changed that.[/quote]

Fair enough. As I'm not sold on JC myself. This will be the year he either breaks through and takes a huge step or gets run outta DC IMO.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

People are sleeping on Tyler Thigpen...

As for Taylor, one of the more curious aspects of the whole thing is that he apparently never said "Look, I get that you want to offer me an extra $500k in exchange for this commitment because you've invested a lot in me and it hasn't paid off. But I don't want to make that commitment, but tell you what how about I give back some of my money in exchange for not having to do this"

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;533867]Ya know, I have never been anti-Giants, but I swear after listening to so many members here gush at the Giants off season moves I think I may :vomit:.
Recapping:
they now have 7 starting linemen all with solid salary cap numbers, not all 7 can play at once, a good 2nd year safety, so they go out and add a safety, don't do anything for their cornerback position. and on offense they let one of their EWF crew go to another team, don't upgrade the line(backups),[B] don't upgrade receivers[/B].[/quote]

Well they have high draft picks that they are counting on. Mario Manningham, who was one of the best college 07 college wr's, Steve Smith and Santana's little brother. They seem to know what they're doing. Jerry Reece is a pretty damn good GM. Plus Ward was expendable. I don't see that as a big loss.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=irish;533878]IMO for that kind of $ they could have rebuilt the entire line instead of just plugging in 1 player who like you said isnt really going to make much of a difference. If they had to spend that $ I'd have liked to see them take a run at Cassell. That is the position that is really holding this team back.[/quote]

If you put Cassel in our offense last year I really don't think you'd see a big difference. I don't think he's good enough to carry an offense.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=Paintrain;533629]This is why Cooley will go down as one of the most popular Redskins ever. The dude is just real, he gets it when obviously so many others in the NFL don't.

[URL="http://chriscooley47.blogspot.com/2009/03/jt-hates-money.html"]The Official Blog of Chris Cooley: JT Hates Money[/URL][/quote]


When do folks in or around the NFL, as well as the fans, don't know it is all about the Benjamins? People are pissed because the bastard got all that money for being oft injured, and underperformed, with the exception of what, one game. Folks get it, just don't like it that much anymore. When folks are busting their asses, working two jobs just to pay rent, the mortgage, food, gas for work, just to survive, and these bozos get milliions for basically jerking off how do you think they are going to react? The NFL and NBA want bailouts by us working stiffs(taxpayers) that work 40+ hours a week year round? Why don't they try and lower the frigging salaries of their players then. Eventually this is going to happen. Soon folks will be too worried about mere survival than worrying about the bread and circuses that have served as mere distractions for the past half century. It is funny, the Skins laid off another batch of office personnel, probably for good, and nobody wants to even talk about these ridiculous salaries the players make.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;534028]When do folks in or around the NFL, as well as the fans, don't know it is all about the Benjamins? People are pissed because the bastard got all that money for being oft injured, and underperformed, with the exception of what, one game. Folks get it, just don't like it that much anymore. When folks are busting their asses, working two jobs just to pay rent, the mortgage, food, gas for work, just to survive, and these bozos get milliions for basically jerking off how do you think they are going to react? The NFL and NBA want bailouts by us working stiffs(taxpayers) that work 40+ hours a week year round? Why don't they try and lower the frigging salaries of their players then. Eventually this is going to happen. Soon folks will be too worried about mere survival than worrying about the bread and circuses that have served as mere distractions for the past half century. It is funny, the Skins laid off another batch of office personnel, probably for good, and nobody wants to even talk about these ridiculous salaries the players make.[/quote]

Gus--A well put social commentary of the times from someone in a town that is unfortunately suffering the most during this current economic calamity...

Regarding the JT situation; here is my rebuttal to Cooley's thoughtful argument---players his age (and sometimes younger i.e. Portis) tire of the whole offseason regimen and really only want to play (and get paid for) their work during the season. So I expect JT will chill until July, spending time in Miami with his family, and then get signed in August by the Pats or another contender that has lost a DE to injury during training camp. His kids will be in school again, he'll probably get a contract for 3-4 million, and still have a chance for a ring. The money lost by not being with the Skins therefore will equate to the opportunity costs earned by spending time with his family and eventually signing on with a team with a better shot of winning the Super Bowl.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;533911]Please he was on a team that went 16-0 and the team finished 11-5. obviously he can't handle pro offenses.
[/quote]

I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic here or not.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=SmootSmack;533956]People are sleeping on Tyler Thigpen...

As for Taylor, one of the more curious aspects of the whole thing is that he apparently never said "Look, I get that you want to offer me an extra $500k in exchange for this commitment because you've invested a lot in me and it hasn't paid off. But I don't want to make that commitment, but tell you what how about I give back some of my money in exchange for not having to do this"[/quote]

Why would he offer to give some back? It wasn't counting against our cap was it?

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=tryfuhl;534038]Why would he offer to give some back? It wasn't counting against our cap was it?[/quote]

No, just saying that it seems money wasn't as much a factor as this was just an opportunity to get out of a bad situation

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;533911]Please he was on a team that went 16-0 and the team finished 11-5. obviously he can't handle pro offenses.

I've no clue how good Cassell is, but you said you wanted to re work the lines and then edited it to include getting Cassell. So mainly your gripe is JC, but we are not replacing him this year period, would be a ridiculous proposition, so instead they went out and got top quality at positions we are weak at and that is a good proposition. Cassell would no more win us three games (he lost NE 5) then AH will, but our D should be dominating enough and that a modest improvement in our offense, which we should see or Zorn will be to blame, should lead to dramatic results.

They are serving Koolaid and Ice Cream again!!!!! :)[/quote]

I didnt say to rework the lines and get Cassell. It was either or. I also have no idea how good Cassell can be but I do know he lead NE to 11 wins last year after never having taken a snap. Thats almost as many wins as JC has in all his time with the Skins. If offered a choice between Cassell and JC I'll take Cassell every time.

If you think that one D lineman (not the entire d line) has as big an impact on winning and losing games as a QB you need to go back and watch football.

BTW, when the O sputters again this season it wont be Zorns fault. It will be the QB. Zorn cant make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=irish;534093]I didnt say to rework the lines and get Cassell. It was either or. I also have no idea how good Cassell can be but I do know he lead NE to 11 wins last year after never having taken a snap. Thats almost as many wins as JC has in all his time with the Skins. If offered a choice between Cassell and JC I'll take Cassell every time.

[B]If you think that one D lineman (not the entire d line) has as big an impact on winning and losing games as a QB you need to go back and watch football.

BTW, when the O sputters again this season it wont be Zorns fault. It will be the QB. Zorn cant make a silk purse out of a sow's ear[/B].[/quote]
First, I watch enough, thank you, and if you saw our games last year, and watched the Titans D also, you would know that a player like AH does in fact upgrade our D every time he steps on the field. If you think he doesn't impact our D strategy as much as the qb on the other side, maybe you should watch his games more closely.
2nd, Zorn made silk out of Hasselback, even after benching him. You don't like Campbell, fine whatever. Campbell and Portis together were creating all the buzz until the OLine broke down, then nothing. Campbell's stats and performance have improved yearly so replacing him would just set our team back again. But like every other JC hater, nothing I say would change your mind so I guess I'll just go watch more football till I see it your way.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;534106]First, I watch enough, thank you, and if you saw our games last year, and watched the Titans D also, you would know that a player like AH does in fact upgrade our D every time he steps on the field. If you think he doesn't impact our D strategy as much as the qb on the other side, maybe you should watch his games more closely.
2nd, Zorn made silk out of Hasselback, even after benching him. You don't like Campbell, fine whatever. Campbell and Portis together were creating all the buzz until the OLine broke down, then nothing. Campbell's stats and performance have improved yearly so replacing him would just set our team back again. But like every other JC hater, nothing I say would change your mind so I guess I'll just go watch more football till I see it your way.[/quote]

Your talking defensive strategy and I'm talking winning and losing games. I dont care what strategy is used, its the wins that count. I agree that AH will impact the Skins defensive strategy. Will that translate into more wins, hopefully it will.

At this point JC and MH are not comparable. MH has taken his team to the playoffs and super bowk, JC hasnt. I dont think that replacing JC with a competent QB would set the team back at all. Skins fans are now in the mindset that it takes years to develop a QB when in fact QBs like Cassell, Rothlessberger, Ryan stepped right in and got the job done.

Re: Cooley comments on Jason Taylor
 

[quote=irish;534115]Your talking defensive strategy and [B]I'm talking winning and losing games.[/B] I dont care what strategy is used, its the wins that count. I agree that AH will impact the Skins defensive strategy. Will that translate into more wins, hopefully it will.

[B]At this point JC and MH are not comparable[/B]. MH has taken his team to the playoffs and super bowk, JC hasnt. I dont think that replacing JC with a competent QB would set the team back at all. Skins fans are now in the mindset that it takes years to develop a QB when in fact QBs like Cassell, Rothlessberger, Ryan stepped right in and got the job done.[/quote]

-I answered in a different thread, but AH alone would have won us three games last year(where Campbell and the offense got on track and took the lead and the D let us down) so I am talking wins as well.

-Zorn BENCHED MH for a year, before he went to the SB. You are using exceptions and claiming a rule. But most qbs take time to develop, that is an accepted belief, not just among Skins fans, but analysts, NFL teams, and a lot of other folks who actually watch football games. I really like how you say "at this point JC and MH are not comparable" duh, one is at the end of his career and the other is at the beginning of his career. I was comparing MH and JC at the same point in the careers(2nd year under Zorn). But I can understand where that type of[URL="http://www.documentingexcellence.com/stat_tool/reasoning.htm#MISTAKING%20THE%20CAUSE"] Apples to Apples[/URL] comparison might lose its appeal