Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=GTripp0012;534365]Well, if we're bringing in Willis, it's not to play RG.

I do doubt Smith's ability, to an extent, but if he's there at 13, I'm taking him and putting him in the best position to succeed no questions asked.

Assuming that Oher and Orakpo aren't there.[/quote]

I guess training camp could sort things out, but id have a hard time justifying drafting a guy at 13 to play guard. If i'm chosing between drafting Smith to play Guard and drafting almost any other postion, i'd draft another position. Smith has too many questions marks to take a chance on playing a position as easy to fill as guard.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=franklinhimself;534366]lets not even pretend about what's going to happen:

the FO will sign TO to a 2-year deal on this judgement: he can command double teams, open up Moss, ARE, Cooley, and let Portis run to the left. If we're putting up more points, defense doesn't have to be as stellar- so we can get away w/ not addressing either LB or DE.

PISSES ME OFF.[/quote]

Someone doesn't read the news.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;534368]I guess training camp could sort things out, but id have a hard time justifying drafting a guy at 13 to play guard. If i'm chosing between drafting Smith to play Guard and drafting almost any other postion, i'd draft another position. Smith has too many questions marks to take a chance on playing a position as easy to fill as guard.[/quote]


I agree with this, you do not draft one of those guys at 13 to be a guard. We have two good starting guards right now. If you draft a tackle at 13 you need him at RT now and hopefully he is talented enough to be your LT of the future.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=franklinhimself;534366]lets not even pretend about what's going to happen:

the FO will sign TO to a 2-year deal on this judgement: he can command double teams, open up Moss, ARE, Cooley, and let Portis run to the left. If we're putting up more points, defense doesn't have to be as stellar- so we can get away w/ not addressing either LB or DE.

PISSES ME OFF.[/quote]
How can you get ticked off at
a) something that hasn't even happened yet
b) is not something that happened last time TO was a free agent
c) unlikely due to cap availabilty (notice i did not say impossible, just unlikely)

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=Buster;534267]Maybe the WP figure includes the amount set aside for the draft and the article didn't.[/quote]

Our guru's here have already figured that the draft amount will be about 2.5-3 mill. If we are 12-13 under the CAP then I'll agree and say 6 mill is a lot to be off by?

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=Buster;534267]Maybe the WP figure includes the amount set aside for the draft and the article didn't.[/quote]

Maybe the folks that cover the Redskins for the WP are friggin idiots??

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

The team is taking a look at young offensive lineman with potential and I bet some people are going to be upset about it. I swear, you can't win with the fans.

I'm glad the team is looking at these players. I hope they can sign two players of this caliber to add youth and depth to the line.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;534361]No way Rabach is worse than Jansen, Heyer, Thomas or any of our backups. At worst, he was our third best lineman behind Kendall and Samuels. I'm not saying I think Rabach is a stud - Center needs to be upgraded... its just the rest of our line is so bad. I think Rabach would play better with Dockery and someone other than Thomas beside him... whereas i dont think Randy would benefit much from having a better RT and Center beside him.[/quote]I don't think there's anyway you could say this if you've seen what I've seen. Jansen's flaws are based in age and agility limitations. Not great, but we could surivive another year of Jansen. Thomas, he had a down year for sure last year, but more because he looked lost in the new system than he looked overmatched.

Rabach can't block players he lines up against. You have to double every defensive nose we play. He's simply not good enough. He wasn't in 2008, and he wasn't in 2007 either.

Our line was pretty good in 2006, but he's been in severe decline since then. He's the very definition of a liability, and while we could decide to suck it up and let Jansen play RT another year, we can't act like we're serious about improving the pass protection, and then have a guy who can't protect right in the middle of the line for a third year in a row.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=GMScud;534387]Maybe the folks that cover the Redskins for the WP are friggin idiots??[/quote]

I think WP meant Warpath, not Washington Post- who are of course friggin idiots.

The Warpath number is now 11.1 million, and does not include any money allocated for Rookies. so 6 million probably includes the rookie allocation, and they probably used a higher number then Warpaths because the Warpath guys actually looked at who we might draft, and the others just ballparked.

Obviously the Warpath crew is right on, and the other guys just tried to get close to make a good story!

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;534361]No way Rabach is worse than Jansen, Heyer, Thomas or any of our backups. At worst, he was our third best lineman behind Kendall and Samuels. I'm not saying I think Rabach is a stud - Center needs to be upgraded... [B]its just the rest of our line is so bad[/B]. [B]I think Rabach would play better with Dockery and someone other than Thomas beside him[/B]... whereas i dont think Randy would benefit much from having a better RT and Center beside him.



[B]Is that because you doubt Smiths ability or you have some supreme confidence in Willis?[/B][/quote]

What does this have to do with "supreme confidence in Willis" The guy let up [B]1[/B] sack in his 10 starts. I could easily say the same about with you're "supreme confidence" in Heyer. You're blaming the rest of the line for Rabach's medocre play? WOW. Who else would you put ahead of Thomas at RG, Reinhardt? It's ridiculous that your blaming Thomas for Rabach's average play.



:doh:

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=GTripp0012;534391]I don't think there's anyway you could say this if you've seen what I've seen. Jansen's flaws are based in age and agility limitations. Not great, but we could surivive another year of Jansen. Thomas, he had a down year for sure last year, but more because he looked lost in the new system than he looked overmatched.

Rabach can't block players he lines up against. You have to double every defensive nose we play. He's simply not good enough. He wasn't in 2008, and he wasn't in 2007 either.

Our line was pretty good in 2006, but he's been in severe decline since then. He's the very definition of a liability, and while we could decide to suck it up and let Jansen play RT another year, we can't act like we're serious about improving the pass protection, and then have a guy who can't protect right in the middle of the line for a third year in a row.[/quote]

Ahem, clearly you haven't been reading JLC carefully. Every other linemen is replaceable but Rabach is a FIXTURE at Center. :yeahright

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

We should sign Ray Willis over Elton Brown. Brown sounds like a guard and would get exploited by Ware and Osi if he gets to man the RT spot. I was hoping I'd check Warpath today and see that we have signed Willis. With him locked down, we will have options with the 13th pick, to see if one of the big 4 falls to us then we go with Dbags scenario

[quote]...I would love to see the team sign Ray Willis then draft Andre Smith in the first and a Center in the third. Then have a starting lineup like so:

LT - Chris Samuals
LG - Derrick Dockery
C - Casey Rabach
RG - Ray Willis
RT - Andre Smith

Backups - Stephon Heyer, Jon Jansen, 3rd Round Center, Chad Rhinehart, Randy Thomas
[/quote]

[B]BUT[/B]
If big 4 are gone then we can look at Brian Orakpo or Rey Maualuga @ 13
[B]OR [/B]trade down if someone wants to move up.

However, if we go into the draft with RT unaddressed, we would be limited in our options because we would either have to take one of the big 4 or trade down to nab Beatty or Meredith. I am not confident in our scouts and Vinny to get us a solid RT in the 3rd round after the Rinehart pick.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=GTripp0012;534391]I don't think there's anyway you could say this if you've seen what I've seen. Jansen's flaws are based in age and agility limitations. Not great, but we could surivive another year of Jansen. Thomas, he had a down year for sure last year, but more because he looked lost in the new system than he looked overmatched.

Rabach can't block players he lines up against. You have to double every defensive nose we play. He's simply not good enough. He wasn't in 2008, and he wasn't in 2007 either.

Our line was pretty good in 2006, but he's been in severe decline since then. He's the very definition of a liability, and while we could decide to suck it up and let Jansen play RT another year, we can't act like we're serious about improving the pass protection, and then have a guy who can't protect right in the middle of the line for a third year in a row.[/quote]

Man, you are way out on a limb on this topic. [B]We[/B] may survive another year with Jansen at RT but Jason Cambell won't. JC is taking too many hits from people coming from that side.

Also, you need to be realistic about the probability of injuries to both Jansen and Randy Thomas during the season. You can bet the mortgage money that they will both miss games due to injury, based on their ages and injury histories.

You should know that Joe Bugel likes Rabach. Enough said. If you need another reason, though, I hope you would agree with me that it would be difficult for a rookie center to make the line calls for our team. Hey, I'm aware that we could do better at center but I think we should just draft a promising C/G and work him into the lineup over time.

Ray Willis is a Tackle - a Right Tackle. He's a good pass protector who only gave up 1 sack last season. I am 100% in favor of signing him and starting him at RT.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;534353]Ray Willis is going to come off the street and bump Randy Thomas to the bench? I doubt that.

Why are people giving up on Randy Thomas? He was good in the beginning of the year and was decent down the stretch even with a broken neck.[/quote]

Agreed. Randy Thomas has way too much gumption, pride, and character to do anything but come back with a serious vengeance in 2009.

He's older and won't be able to pull and get to the edges like he did four years ago, but the neck will be better and should allow him to drive-block better than he did last year.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=vallin21;534394]What does this have to do with "supreme confidence in Willis" The guy let up [B]1[/B] sack in his 10 starts. I could easily say the same about with you're "supreme confidence" in Heyer. You're blaming the rest of the line for Rabach's medocre play? WOW. Who else would you put ahead of Thomas at RG, Reinhardt? It's ridiculous that your blaming Thomas for Rabach's average play.



:doh:[/quote]

it amuses me that you post something nonsensical and then say :doh:

I think it would require a lot of confidence in Willis to start him at RT over a guy who looks to be a franchise OT taken with the 13th overall pick in the draft.

I dont, and have never, expressed supreme confidence in Heyer. I dont know where that came from. Heyer is the best RT on our team right now (for what its worth). The only thing i have ever advocated is selecting a franchise LT with the 13th overall pick in the draft so Samuels can move to the right side. All this love with Willis is foolish - the only other team interested in him besides Washington is Oakland. Hes had a career two years longer than Heyer, and at that point, hes done nothing to make the majority of the league think hes anything more than Heyer is - a guy who is somewhere between an above-average backup and average starter right now.

And i'm not blaming anyone on the line for anyone elses play. All i did, was offer my opinion that Rabach would benefit more from having better guys along side him than would Thomas. If you read comments from Bugel about our line (and sift through the positive "gibbs-speak,") its clear this is his opinion. In fact, the team itself identified BOTH guard postions and RT as its primary OL needs. Rabach will be 31 when the season begins. He has only missed one game in the past 6 years. Thomas is two years older and has suffered through injuries of one kind or another for the past several years. Rabach is obviously the better lineman at th is point in his career. It stands to reason, he would benefit much more from better guys on either side of him than Rabach would. You think Rabach is the weakest link (besides jansen obviously)? Then how about you offer some sort of cohesive argument to support your point of view. I'd love to hear it.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

I'm gonna have to side with GTripp on the Rabach argument. I think the guy is on the downslide. Tripp breaks down more film than anyone not named Ron Jaworski, and has provided numerous examples (backed by stats mind you) on Rabach's shortcomings. Go back and read some of his offensive game charts from the regular season. Just because Rabach is durable doesn't mean he's one of our best lineman. He gets beat up at the point of attack all the time, especially by NTs in 3-4 defenses.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=GTripp0012;534391]I don't think there's anyway you could say this if you've seen what I've seen. Jansen's flaws are based in age and agility limitations. Not great, but we could surivive another year of Jansen. Thomas, he had a down year for sure last year, but more because he looked lost in the new system than he looked overmatched.

Rabach can't block players he lines up against. You have to double every defensive nose we play. He's simply not good enough. He wasn't in 2008, and he wasn't in 2007 either.

Our line was pretty good in 2006, but he's been in severe decline since then. He's the very definition of a liability, and while we could decide to suck it up and let Jansen play RT another year, we can't act like we're serious about improving the pass protection, and then have a guy who can't protect right in the middle of the line for a third year in a row.[/quote]

I agree with your points on Jansen and to some extent, i understand your defense of Thomas. personally, i think Thomas will regress this year the same way Jansen did last year. Both are still serviceable linemen in this league, but they both pale in comparison to the players they were just 2 years ago. Jansen hit the wall hard last year and its going to happen to Thomas sooner rather than later. I dont know where you get your comments about Rabach getting man-handled last year - he had a few bad plays that I remember, but he played solid football against some of the best NTs in the league last year. Rabach was good enough to make SportingNews and USATodays All-Pro team at mid-season 2008. He's certainly better than any FA centers on the market right now and we have too many needs to address center with a top pick in the draft. With a cap figure in the 2M range, Rabach is offering us alot of bang for our buck.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;534404]it amuses me that you post something nonsensical and then say :doh:

I think it would require a lot of confidence in Willis to start him at RT over a guy who looks to be a franchise OT taken with the 13th overall pick in the draft.

I dont, and have never, expressed supreme confidence in Heyer. I dont know where that came from. Heyer is the best RT on our team right now (for what its worth). The only thing i have ever advocated is selecting a franchise LT with the 13th overall pick in the draft so Samuels can move to the right side. All this love with Willis is foolish - the only other team interested in him besides Washington is Oakland. Hes had a career two years longer than Heyer, and at that point, hes done nothing to make the majority of the league think hes anything more than Heyer is - a guy who is somewhere between an above-average backup and average starter right now.

And i'm not blaming anyone on the line for anyone elses play. All i did, was offer my opinion that Rabach would benefit more from having better guys along side him than would Thomas. If you read comments from Bugel about our line (and sift through the positive "gibbs-speak,") its clear this is his opinion. [B]In fact, the team itself identified BOTH guard postions and RT as its primary OL needs.[/B] Rabach will be 31 when the season begins. He has only missed one game in the past 6 years. Thomas is two years older and has suffered through injuries of one kind or another for the past several years. Rabach is obviously the better lineman at th is point in his career. It stands to reason, he would benefit much more from better guys on either side of him than Rabach would. You think Rabach is the weakest link (besides jansen obviously)? Then how about you offer some sort of cohesive argument to support your point of view. I'd love to hear it.[/quote]

First off the :doh: was to adressed to your follish view on Thomas being the reason Rabach's play has declined. Second, you can say Willis is garbage but he has proven he is capable of starting in the league. Heyer is for the most part untested and unproven. We can dissagree on Willis (because if he doesn't sign we're probably drafting a OT (if available) at 13) The team has said they are looking at somene to replace JANSEN AT RT NOT THOMAS. This tell's me you've been reading JLC's inaccurate blog at the Post.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;534401]Man, you are way out on a limb on this topic. [B]We[/B] may survive another year with Jansen at RT but Jason Cambell won't. JC is taking too many hits from people coming from that side.

Also, you need to be realistic about the probability of injuries to both Jansen and Randy Thomas during the season. You can bet the mortgage money that they will both miss games due to injury, based on their ages and injury histories.

You should know that Joe Bugel likes Rabach. Enough said. If you need another reason, though, I hope you would agree with me that it would be difficult for a rookie center to make the line calls for our team. Hey, I'm aware that we could do better at center but I think we should just draft a promising C/G and work him into the lineup over time..[/quote]Is that you, JLC?

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;534410]I agree with your points on Jansen and to some extent, i understand your defense of Thomas. personally, i think Thomas will regress this year the same way Jansen did last year. Both are still serviceable linemen in this league, but they both pale in comparison to the players they were just 2 years ago. Jansen hit the wall hard last year and its going to happen to Thomas sooner rather than later. I dont know where you get your comments about Rabach getting man-handled last year - he had a few bad plays that I remember, but he played solid football against some of the best NTs in the league last year. Rabach was good enough to make [B]SportingNews and USATodays All-Pro team at mid-season 2008[/B]. He's certainly better than any FA centers on the market right now and we have too many needs to address center with a top pick in the draft. With a cap figure in the 2M range, Rabach is offering us alot of bang for our buck.[/quote]If you can produce a link to this, I think you'd be off the hook for assuming Rabach was performing decently last year.

But boy, they'll be getting an email pretty soon. Who else made that team, Kwame Harris?

I maintain that you and I aren't disagreeing on the same level. You are providing insight based on what you've read, etc. Places have reported that Casey Rabach was a big proponent for our 6-2 start. I get that. You are just reporting onto me what you've gathered.

I'm telling you first hand, based on extensive tape review, that what you've read is incorrect, and [U]hilariously[/U] so. The logic that Casey Rabach deserves to keep his job is nothing more than an assumption based on the overall productivity of the Redskins running game through 8 weeks last year from people who don't follow the team and might have seen a single game (such as the first Dallas game).

In my opinion, that doesn't qualify them to comment accurately on the subject. In reality, their assumptions are dead wrong.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=GTripp0012;534413]Is that you, JLC?[/quote]

That's not nice.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=GMScud;534409]I'm gonna have to side with GTripp on the Rabach argument. I think the guy is on the downslide. Tripp breaks down more film than anyone not named Ron Jaworski, and has provided numerous examples (backed by stats mind you) on Rabach's shortcomings. Go back and read some of his offensive game charts from the regular season. Just because Rabach is durable doesn't mean he's one of our best lineman. He gets beat up at the point of attack all the time, especially by NTs in 3-4 defenses.[/quote]

Was Rabach a liability in the 6-2 half of the season when we were one of the best rushing teams in the league? Or did he become a liability in the 2-6 half of the season where our All pro was hurt and ultimately shelved, his right guard was playing with a broken neck and the backup right tackle wore down.

If Samuels comes back healthy, Thomas fully recovers and they bring in a legitimate right tackle that Rabach will be just fine. I find it hard to dismiss Rabach when the healthy first unit was kicking butt and arguably one of the top units in the league.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

i think willis may be getting pumped up a bit too much. i'm not sure he's really a HUGE upgrade over heyer, he's just the best of a (weak) OT market that may have some upside... still, he wouldn't be expensive, but if I wanted to draft an OT and we signed him, I wouldn't hesitate to draft an OT anyways.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;534421]Was Rabach a liability in the 6-2 half of the season when we were one of the best rushing teams in the league? Or did he become a liability in the 2-6 half of the season where our All pro was hurt and ultimately shelved, his right guard was playing with a broken neck and the backup right tackle wore down.

If Samuels comes back healthy, Thomas fully recovers and they bring in a legitimate right tackle that Rabach will be just fine. I find it hard to dismiss Rabach when the healthy first unit was kicking butt and arguably one of the top units in the league.[/quote]Well, they did some things with the blocking schemes to cover for him in the first half of the year that they couldn't do in the second half of the year. So you could say that he was more successful in the first eight games than the second.

Getting Samuels and Thomas back should [U]absolutely[/U] make the line better, but I'm not sure how that makes Rabach's inability to pass block or move a nose tackle even one inch less of a liability.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

Did Willis leave today with a contract offer?

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;534418]That's not nice.[/quote]My apologies. You cited Bugel as an argument (who neither he or you ever speaks to), and I got confused ;)

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;534421]Was Rabach a liability in the 6-2 half of the season when we were one of the best rushing teams in the league? Or did he become a liability in the 2-6 half of the season where our All pro was hurt and ultimately shelved, his right guard was playing with a broken neck and the backup right tackle wore down.

If Samuels comes back healthy, Thomas fully recovers and they bring in a legitimate right tackle that Rabach will be just fine. I find it hard to dismiss Rabach when the healthy first unit was kicking butt and arguably one of the top units in the league.[/quote]

even at 6-2 we really weren't a top OL... the running yards were okay, but 16 sacks in 8 games... (then we gave up 7 in week 9 to pit). the giants gave up 6 sacks in the first 8 weeks (including 0 to pit). not close.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;534376]How can you get ticked off at
a) something that hasn't even happened yet
b) is not something that happened last time TO was a free agent
c) unlikely due to cap availabilty (notice i did not say impossible, just unlikely)[/quote]

d) vinny already said no to bringing in T.O.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=GTripp0012;534425]Well, they did some things with the blocking schemes to cover for him in the first half of the year that they couldn't do in the second half of the year. So you could say that he was more successful in the first eight games than the second.

Getting Samuels and Thomas back should [U]absolutely[/U] make the line better, but I'm not sure how that makes Rabach's inability to pass block or move a nose tackle even one inch less of a liability.[/quote]

I certainly haven't put in the tape time that you have but you summarized my assumption. That with Samuels healthy, Kendall could help Rabach more and that Thomas could help Rabach more when he was healthy and Jansen was playing better.

I would expect any offensive line playing two backup tackles and two older banged up guards to look pretty bad on tape.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=tryfuhl;534430]d) vinny already said no to bringing in T.O.[/quote]

I don't think they are bringing in TO, but "Vinny said so" doesn't rank very high on my list of convincing arguments.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;534376]How can you get ticked off at
a) something that hasn't even happened yet
b) is not something that happened last time TO was a free agent
c) unlikely due to cap availabilty (notice i did not say impossible, just unlikely)[/quote]

Lol its not that im an idiot, i just have the habit of expecting the worst from the FO which isn't totally out of left field. thats all

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;534436]I don't think they are bringing in TO, but "Vinny said so" doesn't rank very high on my list of convincing arguments.[/quote]

vinny was in kindergarten ninjas! don't disrespect... or do, your call.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;534431]I certainly haven't put in the tape time that you have but you summarized my assumption. That with Samuels healthy, [B]Kendall could help Rabach more[/B] and that Thomas could help Rabach more when he was healthy and Jansen was playing better.

I would expect any offensive line playing two backup tackles and two older banged up guards to look pretty bad on tape.[/quote]That's essentially what happened. Kendall did the dirty work while Rabach released to the second level where he was physical enough to handle LBs.

Of course, not every team's front seven was bad enough for that to work, so Rabach got killed in the second half of the year. Totally exposed.

Your guess is as good as mine whether getting Dockery back will help. Kendall was Rabach's best buddy last year. But Dockery and Rabach have worked well in the past.

Still, I maintain it shouldn't be hard at all to find a Center stronger than Casey Rabach. At this point though, it has to be through the draft. The FA market is pretty dry (Eric Heitmann and Jeremy Newberry would still be upgrades IMO). On top of that, I'd prefer to not have to replace a stopgap Center with a slightly better stop gap Center. I'd rather just grab a center in the first three rounds, be able to release Rabach, and hopefully, have Kendall back for another year to be the backup LG and C.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=vallin21;534412]First off the :doh: was to adressed to your follish view on Thomas being the reason Rabach's play has declined. Second, you can say Willis is garbage but he has proven he is capable of starting in the league. Heyer is for the most part untested and unproven. We can dissagree on Willis (because if he doesn't sign we're probably drafting a OT (if available) at 13) The team has said they are looking at somene to replace JANSEN AT RT NOT THOMAS. This tell's me you've been reading JLC's inaccurate blog at the Post.[/quote]

I never said Thomas was the reason for Rabachs decline - hence, thats why i questioned your use of :doh: in the first place. I dont know where you come up with this stuff, but if you want to make a point, just make your point. accusing me of saying something i didnt say, and then disagreeing with it is irritating to me, and it makes it hard for me to actually pay attention to what your saying. if you have a good argument, just make it. dont make up stuff and claim i said it, please.

I have been reading JLCs blog, but his blog is not the only source to say we were looking to upgrade those spots. The team has said they are looking to upgrade both guard positions and RT. Last i checked, Thomas was playing one of the guard positions. We've made a great first step in bringing dock back. RT remains the biggest priority to upgrade, followed by RG. Replacing Rabach is a luxury at this point. So far, his play has been well-above average.

I respect GTripp alot and am sure he knows more about football than I do. and i wasnt an active member on these forums durning the season so i didnt read any of his post-game critiques of players, but I was impressed by Rabachs performance in 2008. Two noteable media outlets were impressed enough by his performance to name him to their all-pro team at mid-season and Bugel seemed to give Rabach more praise than any of the other interior linemen on the roster last year. We wont know for sure how these guys are doing until camp, but thus far, center is pretty far down on the list of areas that need upgrading.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=franklinhimself;534441]Lol its not that im an idiot, i just have the habit of expecting the worst from the FO which isn't totally out of left field. thats all[/quote]

sorry, but i don't see why you "expect the worst", I think many will tell you I am pretty strong believer in our FO. Especially during and Post-Gibbs eras. I think we have one of the top FO's, and get tired of people putting them down when there is no justification. And this off-season has certainly been one of those times.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;534436]I don't think they are bringing in TO, but "Vinny said so" doesn't rank very high on my list of convincing arguments.[/quote]

Well let's hope the Sarge means no this time.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=GTripp0012;534415]If you can produce a link to this, I think you'd be off the hook for assuming Rabach was performing decently last year.
[/quote]

This is where I got my info from. If its not true, then its Elfin's fault:

[url=http://blogs.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/14/interior-trio-anchors-redskins-offensive-line/]Washington Times - Interior trio anchors Redskins' offensive line[/url]

[quote]Rabach, Bugel's lieutenant, has to know everyone's assignments while dueling with massive defenders. [I]Rabach's performance this season earned him a spot on both the Sporting News and USA Today midseason All-Pro teams. [/I]Kendall made Sports Illustrated's.

"I see the game for the most part the way Casey sees it, trying to determine what side the pressure's coming from ... the intentions of the defense whether it be via a certain player's posture or an alignment, the understanding of our scheme and how it fits in against the defensive scheme," Kendall said.

[/quote]

One other thing I was thinking is that we know the Post hates the skins. JLC looks for anything he can to criticize them, yet, in Post articles, guard and Tackle are the only positions on our line that they report as weaknesses. One would think, if they, or their sources gave any indication that the team was dissatisfied with Rabach, then they would say so. Instead, we've heard no such argument.

Ive never done a play by play analysis of every player for every game. So by questioning you, i'm not intending any disrespect - but i havent seen anything during watching games to make me think that Rabach did a bad job last year. To the contrary, ive been impressed. By all reports, so has the team.

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

A) Elton Brown isn't that good, he was a backup on the cardinals awful oline
B) Ray willis should be signed to a contract, Especially if all the good tackles will not be there at 13 like people are saying (especially on this site)
C) DONT WANT T O and right now not even the raiders want him...ouch!
Keep me posted on Willis

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

[quote=Nflnick11;534455]A) Elton Brown isn't that good, he was a backup on the [B]cardinals awful oline[/B]
B) Ray willis should be signed to a contract, Especially if all the good tackles will not be there at 13 like people are saying (especially on this site)
C) DONT WANT T O and right now not even the raiders want him...ouch!
Keep me posted on Willis[/quote]

I am not picking(cuz i didn't watch many cardinals games till the playoffs), but asking, wasn't our complaint that Campbell did not have time. Didn't Warner lob many a bombs, even against Pitt's D. Maybe they didn't run block but I think pass blocking had to be ok?

Re: Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit
 

I think the market for a tackle in the 3rd round is rather bare this year (some good centers potentially though, Antoine Caldwell comes to mind), but it's kinda funny how some people here don't trust the Front Office to find a 3rd round talent to start on the line because of Chad Rinehart yet are gung-ho about Dockery's return (apparently forgetting what round he was drafted).