Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=The Goat;537870]If we used DT as a KR and possibly PR i think we'd be close(r) to getting our value for him...[/quote]

We already have a KR and a PR. (sarcasm) :)

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

Could some of them be training offsite--say in Arizona with McNabb's crew?

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

Why would they show up, they were so productive last year. hahahaha

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=Paintrain;537976]I don't know about totally overvalued, most teams had him as the first or second WR in the draft last year. He was the 2nd WR drafted so how was that overvalued?[/quote]He's overvalued because we took him before about 8-9 (off the top of the head estimation) better players at the same position. Although the key is that we don't know before the draft who those 8-9 players actually are, we have tools and stuff to help get to the bottom of that. This wasn't like, unknown to the Warpath at the time. Dirtbag was a huge Jordy Nelson supporter, and I thought Malcolm Kelly (or even DeSean Jackson, who I was higher on at the time) would make a better high second round pick. I was pretty vocal at the time, and I've already put my money where my mouth is.

Or what Angry said. Either explanation works for me.

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

This is straight off my unedited 101 top prospects from last April. Before Vinny's mistake.

I took off all the non-WR/TEs as not to abuse the list. The number should roughly correlate to the value for the player in terms of draft pick, obviously.

19. John Carlson, TE, Notre Dame
34. Limas Sweed, WR, Texas
35. Dustin Keller, TE, Purdue
38. Mario Manningham, WR, Michigan
43. DeSean Jackson, WR, Cal
49. James Hardy, WR, Indiana
53. Martellius Bennett, TE, Texas A&M
61. Malcolm Kelly, WR, Oklahoma
69. Early Doucet, WR, LSU
73. Donnie Avery, WR, Houston
76. Fred Davis, TE, USC
80. Jordy Nelson, WR, Kansas State
87. Eddie Royal, WR, Virginia Tech
90. Jerome Simpson, WR, Coastal Carolina

I do feel today that James Hardy is going to end up being a bust. I feel I made a mistake putting him on the list.

But there were 4 players who had excellent rookie years in my top 60 or so, and two more excellent rookie years in guys I gave a third round grade to.

So to say there wasn't a better option out there at No. 34 than DT, well, then you just don't understand the draft. Of course there were better options out there. Vinny gambled and lost. That's just the way I see it.

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538067]This is straight off my unedited 101 top prospects from last April. Before Vinny's mistake.

I took off all the non-WR/TEs as not to abuse the list. The number should roughly correlate to the value for the player in terms of draft pick, obviously.

19. John Carlson, TE, Notre Dame
34. Limas Sweed, WR, Texas
35. Dustin Keller, TE, Purdue
38. Mario Manningham, WR, Michigan
43. DeSean Jackson, WR, Cal
49. James Hardy, WR, Indiana
53. Martellius Bennett, TE, Texas A&M
61. Malcolm Kelly, WR, Oklahoma
69. Early Doucet, WR, LSU
73. Donnie Avery, WR, Houston
76. Fred Davis, TE, USC
80. Jordy Nelson, WR, Kansas State
87. Eddie Royal, WR, Virginia Tech
90. Jerome Simpson, WR, Coastal Carolina

I do feel today that James Hardy is going to end up being a bust. I feel I made a mistake putting him on the list.

But there were 4 players who had excellent rookie years in my top 60 or so, and two more excellent rookie years in guys I gave a third round grade to.

So to say there wasn't a better option out there at No. 34 than DT, well, then you just don't understand the draft. Of course there were better options out there. Vinny gambled and lost. That's just the way I see it.[/quote]

As frustrated as we all were on Kelly and Thomas lets try and remember that it was their 1st year. And if one of them ends up being a very productive NFL player then Vinny did his job. I wouldn't say he lost. It's too early to say that.

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

I'd say the jury is still out. Let's give Thomas another season or two before we write the pick off as a mistake.

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=skinsfan69;538071]As frustrated as we all were on Kelly and Thomas lets try and remember that it was their 1st year. And if one of them ends up being a very productive NFL player then Vinny did his job. I wouldn't say he lost. It's too early to say that.[/quote]It's an everybody makes mistakes kind of thing. Granted. I want to point out that Vinny made a mistake, without trying to look like he deserves to be dismissed.

In reality, Vinny probably knew he was taking a risk. Hey, the Jets also took a risk on Vernon Gholston at No. 6. After one year, early results show that the teams both lost their gambles.

The risk the Jets took was way, way more costly to them if they lose. But at the same time, you look at Vernon Gholston and you say "boy, if those projections are wrong, we're going to have one of the most talented defensive players in the NFL." With Thomas, it was "if those projections are wrong, we're going to have a young, starting WR who might be a No. 1 or a No. 2!" Well, great, but that's not a type of player that's all that hard to find, so the risk really wasn't necessary at all.

The silver-lining, as I've said all along, is that it was a second round pick. We lost the chance to fill other needs, but that's it. If Gholston doesn't show up this year, the Jets lost out on a whole lot of money, and it could set their franchise back a year.

A healthy Malcolm Kelly is the insurance policy in case Devin Thomas doesn't develop. The Jets don't have an insurance policy for Golston, they just have bad defense.

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

^^ Let's see what Rex Ryan can do w/ Gholston

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538073]It's an everybody makes mistakes kind of thing. Granted. I want to point out that Vinny made a mistake, without trying to look like he deserves to be dismissed.

In reality, Vinny probably knew he was taking a risk. Hey, the Jets also took a risk on Vernon Gholston at No. 6. After one year, early results show that the teams both lost their gambles.

The risk the Jets took was way, way more costly to them if they lose. But at the same time, you look at Vernon Gholston and you say "boy, if those projections are wrong, we're going to have one of the most talented defensive players in the NFL." With Thomas, it was "if those projections are wrong, we're going to have a young,[COLOR=olive] starting WR who might be a No. 1 or a No. 2!" Well, great, but that's not a type of player that's all that hard to find[/COLOR], so the risk really wasn't necessary at all.

The silver-lining, as I've said all along, is that it was a second round pick. We lost the chance to fill other needs, but that's it. If Gholston doesn't show up this year, the Jets lost out on a whole lot of money, and it could set their franchise back a year.

[COLOR=red]A healthy Malcolm Kelly is the insurance policy in case Devin Thomas doesn't develop. The Jets don't have an insurance policy for Golston, they just have bad defense.[/COLOR][/quote][COLOR=olive]Given the redskins recent history of drafted WRs i would say thats a very hard thing to find.


[COLOR=red]Couldn't kind of the same thing be said the other way around? DT is an insurance policy in case MK cant be healthy?[/COLOR]


[/COLOR]

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=gibbsisgod;538075][COLOR=olive]Given the redskins recent history of drafted WRs i would say thats a very hard thing to find.


[COLOR=red]Couldn't kind of the same thing be said the other way around? DT is an insurance policy in case MK cant be healthy?[/COLOR]


[/COLOR][/quote]1) Very, very true. 'Tis always a new day, though.

2) Yeah, of course. I only phrased it that way since DT was drafted first.

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=GridIron26;538074]^^ Let's see what Rex Ryan can do w/ Gholston[/quote]Rex Ryan seems to be 3 to 4 times a better coach than Mangini will ever be, but understanding the type of player that Gholston is, you absolutely have to expect him to hit the ground running in order to be successful.

I do think we'll be pretty certain by October 1 this year whether Gholston is a bust or not.

The reasoning is this: the allure to taking him at No. 6 overall is that you are drafting a matchup nightmare for offensive coordinators. The idea was to get a player who can't be blocked by the Khalif Barnes', and Tony Ugoh's of the world. They'll need help. Well, if he was supposedly athletic enough to be that guy, I'm thinking that we would have seen some sign by the 20 game mark. He's not getting more athletic as he gets older.

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

well u might not like kelly or thomas but it is already been proven that ARE has yet to establish himself at all and Trash i meant Thrash none of our wr can get open and teams know this and the front office knew this thats y we have 3 new recvrs i hope they can stay healthy and be productive if not janky spanky will get worn out again this year and dont get me wrong Mr. Moss is better suited in the slot not a true # 1 srry i like moss but he is not no S Smith

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

Thomas was at Redskins Park yesterday catching passes from Campbell, if anyone cares

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

It is rare that a rookie reciever has a great impact, So this season will tell the story. I believe one of them will emerge to be what we want.

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=SmootSmack;539640]Thomas was at Redskins Park yesterday catching passes from Campbell, if anyone cares[/quote]
:food-smil

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=SmootSmack;539640]Thomas was at Redskins Park yesterday catching passes from Campbell, if anyone cares[/quote]

I think Thomas and Kelly have probably been doing more than people realize. People just like to bash them over what happened last year. They were rookies. They should take some blame for being out of shape, but I think they now know what it takes to be productive in this league and are taking the right steps.

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=53Fan;539651]I think Thomas and Kelly have probably been doing more than people realize. People just like to bash them over what happened last year. They were rookies. They should take some blame for being out of shape, but I think they now know what it takes to be productive in this league and are taking the right steps.[/quote]I concur.
I'm more worried about Stan Hixon. Why did Devin feel the need to workout with Santana to improve route running. It's the coach's job to teach his receivers such fundemental things.

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

Malcolm and Devin should show up no matter what , just to show they are serious about making an impact this year, and they want to be good players

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=53Fan;539651]I think Thomas and Kelly have probably been doing more than people realize. People just like to bash them over what happened last year. They were rookies. They should take some blame for being out of shape, but I think they now know what it takes to be productive in this league and are taking the right steps.[/quote]Fans are aware that the third year tends to be the breakout year for receivers, but this second year is the critical year for development, IMO. If we see clear, positive signs of improvement across the board, I'll feel really good about our 2008 draft, even if neither Kelly or Thomas starts a game.

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[quote=SirClintonPortis;539653]I concur.
I'm more worried about Stan Hixon. Why did Devin feel the need to workout with Santana to improve route running. It's the coach's job to teach his receivers such fundemental things.[/quote]

Nothing wrong with a little mentoring from Moss. DT needs all the help he can get. Just because he's working with Moss I don't think we need to take that as he's not working with Hixon as well.

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=Mattyk72;539662]Nothing wrong with a little mentoring from Moss. DT needs all the help he can get. Just because he's working with Moss I don't think we need to take that as he's not working with Hixon as well.[/quote]

I don't like Hixon, I wish he were gone. That said, I absolutely agree with Matty on this. Moss can teach DT and MK everything and anything he wants. That's all gravy for having him on the team.

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

If only these guys had a third of the work ethic of Art Monk...just a third.

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

I think this is Mark Brunells fault...

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=SmootSmack;539640]Thomas was at Redskins Park yesterday catching passes from Campbell, if anyone cares[/quote]

Yay! That's what we want! more! more! Join in, Fred Davis!

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;539674]I don't like Hixon, I wish he were gone. That said, I absolutely agree with Matty on this. Moss can teach DT and MK everything and anything he wants. That's all gravy for having him on the team.[/quote]

Yeah i hope DT has no time left over to work w/ Hixon... same for Kelly :laughing-

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=Mattyk72;539662]Nothing wrong with a little mentoring from Moss. DT needs all the help he can get. Just because he's working with Moss I don't think we need to take that as he's not working with Hixon as well.[/quote]

I am not supporting Hixon but you gotta think as a receiver it would be more enjoyable to learn from Moss, just because it's a co-worker rather than a boss.

Just like I rather study with friends instead of the the professor. I am not saying ignore the coach, and I am sure Hixon does try to help the receivers because he isn't an idiot; he knows his ass is on the line. I think this story should be more a positive story to show DT is trying to improve, rather than a "glass half empty" take on Hixon.

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

Well, our rookie WR's better know what their doing. They were very ineffective last year as a contributing factor. If they don't produce this year then they could be on the outs and no team is going to want unproductive WR's. They better get on the ball. Otherwise they will be further casualties of roster cuts next year.

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

We don't pay athletes to look pretty on the sidelines. We don't even pay our cheerleaders.

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/wr-thomas-looks-to-turn-it-aro.html?wprss=redskinsinsider]Redskins Insider - WR Thomas Looks to Turn It Around[/url]

Personal reasons sounds so cryptic...he was just at Michigan State helping out his former teammates for their pro day

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=SmootSmack;539895][URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/wr-thomas-looks-to-turn-it-aro.html?wprss=redskinsinsider"]Redskins Insider - WR Thomas Looks to Turn It Around[/URL]

Personal reasons sounds so cryptic...he was just at Michigan State helping out his former teammates for their pro day[/quote]

Eh, it doesn't bother me much at all because he's back at the park and working out with JC.. If he's gone for all spring then I would be concerned.. DT should be allowed to have break from football for some times, including all players..

Beside helping his friends out for their pro days, shows me something - he has good character..

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[url=http://blog.redskins.com/2009/03/27/devin-thomas-continues-to-say-the-right-things/#continued]Devin Thomas Continues To Say The Right Things[/url]

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=SmootSmack;540210][URL="http://blog.redskins.com/2009/03/27/devin-thomas-continues-to-say-the-right-things/#continued"]Devin Thomas Continues To Say The Right Things[/URL][/quote]


I can't help but a detect a subtle note of skepticism in the title of that blogpost by Terl.

In fairness he is saying the right things. My advice for him is to run hills. That's what Jerry Rice and Darryl Green did. Go to the landfill next to I-66 and run up and down that hill.

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

Every interview I hear from any of the Skins, it just seems like everyone is one the same page. I am really excited, (insert offseason SB comments here). I am sure most analysts will put us last, but my hope is springing anew!!

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=70Chip;540215]I can't help but a detect a subtle note of skepticism in the title of that blogpost by Terl.

In fairness he is saying the right things. My advice for him is to run hills. That's what Jerry Rice and Darryl Green did. Go to the landfill next to I-66 and run up and down that hill.[/quote]I feel like I've mentioned this before, but I grew up 5 minutes from [URL="http://www.ahpd.org/NKGC/geninfo.htm"]this[/URL] hill:

[quote]Walter Payton's Hill In the 1970s and 80s, the landfill site on Kennicott (now Nickol Knoll) was used by Chicago Bear football legend, Walter Payton, for training. A resident of Arlington Heights at that time, Payton ran the 92-foot elevation sometimes 20 times a day, often accompanied by friends and teammates. The site was know as "Payton's Hill" long after the football player was no longer training.[/quote]

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

I'd rather hear him say the right things than the wrong things... but all that really matters is what he says with his play on the field.

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Season isn't over yet, but it shows we have some lazy bastards for our WR corp. We want to nail these AIG guys for taking ungodly large retension bonuses for running it(AIG) into the ground and not too many folks bitch about these guys making ridiculous amounts for playing a game most of us played for hours just for fun as kids. You would at least expect maximum effort to try and win and get in shape, etc. What pisses me off is that our guys really do need to get serious ASAP if they do want to win. It isn't like they are all pros. The attitude alone tells me we will have another subpar effort

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

ummmm, what are you responding too?

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;540260]Season isn't over yet, but it shows we have some lazy bastards for our WR corp. We want to nail these AIG guys for taking ungodly large retension bonuses for running it(AIG) into the ground and not too many folks bitch about these guys making ridiculous amounts for playing a game most of us played for hours just for fun as kids. You would at least expect maximum effort to try and win and get in shape, etc. What pisses me off is that our guys really do need to get serious ASAP if they do want to win. It isn't like they are all pros. The attitude alone tells me we will have another subpar effort[/quote]

Have you been hanging out with firstdown?

Re: No Redskins WR have attended 1st 2 days of workouts
 

[quote=Mattyk72;540267]Have you been hanging out with firstdown?[/quote]

Seriously. We should start a thread that involves twisting every subject imaginable into something political. That way we could have a waste basket for this kind of stuff. Sort of like the Toxic Asset Plan. It could be a "Bad Bank" thread if you will. :)