Re: Redskins Pre-Draft Visits and Private Workouts: 2009 Version
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;544300]It's just we have a fourth ranked defense that just added Albert Haynesworth. The O needs to get upgraded and for that to happen we need to make sure that Campbell has time to throw. Now maybe this turns out like 2004 (with a happier ending) in that we get the better player in the first and then find an absolute diamond in the rough during the third round and if thats so then fine but getting a RT that can start is crucial and they're rarely available in the 3rd . In fact getting a guy that can play LT and RT might be even more important should god forbid Samuals go down again.

I know Vinny is high on Rey but from the interviews I've seen with him and what I've heard it seems like he's higher on Andre Smith.[/quote]

Yep...A. Smith has to be taken over Rey no doubt DB. But I highly doubt Smith falls beyond 10 now. All the talk of him free-falling was hype, now teams are just going on that talent. If Detroit goes OT @ 1 then Monroe will go top 5 and Cinci will grab Smith @ 6, but regardless I just highly doubt Smith falls below 10. Oher is a much tougher call from where we sit. If the FO takes him over Rey, taking into consideration all the scouting, I have to trust their work. BUT HE DAMN WELL BETTER START ON THE LINE THIS YEAR.

...btw I totally, completely agree w/ u on the need to add OT talent this off-season. If we don't do so in the draft than FA is a must. Bet anything Levi Jones comes available after Cinci drafts a starter at OT. Samuels is a superior LT so we could try to lure Jones into RT...Jansen and Heyer as backups then. Or I guess we could draft OT later or grab a mediocre FA, but that's irresponsible IMHO. We need to draft one @ 13 or get a legit starter from FA who's probably been cut for financial reasons after his franchise drafted a starter on the first day of the draft :)

Hail!

Re: Redskins Pre-Draft Visits and Private Workouts: 2009 Version
 

Let me preface this by saying our o-line needs help, badly. BUT... if you can't get Alex Mack :) or a top OT, someone like Rey could help our defense become a lot more than just being 4th ranked. By JUST, I mean this. We absolutely SUCKED at getting to the QB and getting turnovers. You can never have enough playmakers on your team whether it's offense or defense. And Maualuga is a playmaker. I don't just want a player to fill a spot, I want someone who is going to make an impact with the 1rst round pick. There will be some o-linemen in the 3rd who can help this team. Not as good as the top 4 or 5, but if you can't get an impact o-lineman with your first, I have no problem taking a defensive player with our first pick who is going to have an immediate impact.

Re: Redskins Pre-Draft Visits and Private Workouts: 2009 Version
 

Ranking by yards is no more helpful then some dude's power rankings.

We had a middling defense last year, especially during the collapse. It might be better this year (Haynesworth), it might be worse (no Washington, Springs, limited pass rush options), and still there are about 3-4 positions can be easily upgraded on defense.

But if you are asking where the picks need to be used, it's offense. The defense needs more talent. The offense needs more young talent.

Re: Redskins Pre-Draft Visits and Private Workouts: 2009 Version
 

[quote=GTripp0012;544314]Ranking by yards is no more helpful then some dude's power rankings.

We had a middling defense last year, especially during the collapse. It might be better this year (Haynesworth), it might be worse (no [B]Washington[/B], Springs, limited pass rush options), and still there are about 3-4 positions can be easily upgraded on defense.

But if you are asking where the picks need to be used, it's offense. The defense needs more talent. The offense needs more young talent.[/quote]

Washington's absence isn't a certainty yet (like i'm telling you something you don't know) and Springs had little impact after week 8 if memory serves. Personally I though Springs was average to lousy by the end of the season, like he got his ass handed to him against SF. But anywho...what's you're bottom line GT. At 13 what offensive players likely to be available are worth taking over defensive players like Raji, Rey, T. Jackson, Ayers?

Re: Redskins Pre-Draft Visits and Private Workouts: 2009 Version
 

[quote=The Goat;544317]Washington's absence isn't a certainty yet (like i'm telling you something you don't know) and Springs had little impact after week 8 if memory serves. Personally I though Springs was average to lousy by the end of the season, like he got his ass handed to him against SF. But anywho...what's you're bottom line GT. At 13 what offensive players likely to be available are worth taking over defensive players like Raji, Rey, T. Jackson, Ayers?[/quote]My list would look something like

1) Raji
2) Crabtree
3) Oher
4) Monroe
5) Mack
6) Orakpo
7) A. Smith
8) T. Jackson
9) M. Jenkins
10) Matthews
11) E. Brown
12) Ayers
13) Maualuga
14) Peria Jerry
15) Laurinaitis/Sintim

I went to 15 understanding that Mack probably isn't an option at 13. But I'd definately say that if the first four guys are gone, I'd take him if I was in charge.

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[quote=GTripp0012;544320]My list would look something like

1) Raji
2) Crabtree
3) Oher
4) Monroe
5) Mack
6) Orakpo
7) A. Smith
8) T. Jackson
9) M. Jenkins
10) Matthews
11) E. Brown
12) Ayers
13) Maualuga
14) Peria Jerry
15) Laurinaitis/Sintim

I went to 15 understanding that Mack probably isn't an option at 13. But I'd definately say that if the first four guys are gone, I'd take him if I was in charge.[/quote]

Is this a Mock or your player grading list dude?

Re: Redskins Pre-Draft Visits and Private Workouts: 2009 Version
 

[quote=GTripp0012;544320]My list would look something like

1) Raji
2) Crabtree
3) Oher
4) Monroe
5) Mack
6) Orakpo
7) A. Smith
8) T. Jackson
9) M. Jenkins
10) Matthews
11) E. Brown
12) Ayers
13) Maualuga
14) Peria Jerry
15) Laurinaitis/Sintim

I went to 15 understanding that Mack probably isn't an option at 13. But I'd definately say that if the first four guys are gone, I'd take him if I was in charge.[/quote]

That's an impressive list. I wish we had more 1rst round picks. :(

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[quote=The Goat;544324]Is this a Mock or your player grading list dude?[/quote]It is a mock. A mock Skins draft board ;)

Yeah, I'm like, very thrown off with real mocks right now. I have no idea what to make of the information at the top. The most verifiable information I'm getting doesn't make any goddamn sense. So either, information that I have no reason to dispute is wrong, or a bunch of teams at the top of the draft have no idea what they are doing. I can't decide where to place my bets.

Basically, I'm predicting the Lions will pass on the first pick because, well, wouldn't that be awesome!

But seriously, that's just my draft board for the Skins. Sorry about throwing Rey in at 13 to confuse/excite you.

Re: Redskins Pre-Draft Visits and Private Workouts: 2009 Version
 

[quote=GTripp0012;544326]It is a mock. A mock Skins draft board ;)

Yeah, I'm like, very thrown off with real mocks right now. I have no idea what to make of the information at the top. The most verifiable information I'm getting doesn't make any goddamn sense. So either, information that I have no reason to dispute is wrong, or a bunch of teams at the top of the draft have no idea what they are doing. I can't decide where to place my bets.

Basically, I'm predicting the Lions will pass on the first pick because, well, wouldn't that be awesome!

But seriously, that's just my draft board for the Skins. Sorry about throwing Rey in at 13 to confuse/excite you.[/quote]

Well actually you're player value board (let's use as many terms as possible) excites me more than anything. Jeez your top rated guy [I]might[/I] actually fall to us, depending on the rumors and reactions. Aside from Raji I count like 7 other guys who are very, very likely to be available to us based on the "conventional mocks" so if u say these guys are best fit for the B & G, which I tend to follow your thinking, we are sitting pretty for '09 unless Danny/Vinny blow this thing up.

...btw Rey @ 13 on your list is a GD insult :)

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Regarding Rey, I just don't see anything astounding about his skill set. He's a fantastic prospect. Maybe as sound as a MLB prospect comes in the draft. But I don't really see what's separating him from Laurinaitis like everyone else does. If Rey is going to be a top ten pick and Laurinaitis is going to go in the bottom half of the round (hypothetically), I'd much rather go down for JL than up for Rey (hypothetically). Rey's bigger, but Laurinaitis is faster.

Plus, I'm increasingly more confident that the Jags weren't at USC to scout Sanchez, if you catch my drift.

Our worst case scenario, if we don't screw it up, ends up with Tyson Jackson or Andre Smith donning the B&G. If we don't end up with one of those guys, a better player than those guys, or more picks via trade down, then we've screwed up royally.

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[quote=GTripp0012;544320]My list would look something like

1) Raji
2) Crabtree
3) Oher
4) Monroe
5) Mack
6) Orakpo
7) A. Smith
8) T. Jackson
9) M. Jenkins
10) Matthews
11) E. Brown
12) Ayers
13) Maualuga
14) Peria Jerry
15) Laurinaitis/Sintim

I went to 15 understanding that Mack probably isn't an option at 13. But I'd definately say that if the first four guys are gone, I'd take him if I was in charge.[/quote]

1) There is no way the FO ties up that much $ at DT with no DE's
2) Vinny is not Millen, we will not be pickung WR high...again
3) How is Oher over Monroe? I've read that the guy isn't that bright.
4) Not falling past Cincy
5) Not worth 13th overall
6) Not falling out of top 10
7) Not bad, but man he made some dumb ass decisions
8) Second coming of Renaldo Wynn...underwhelming, but solid
9) 4.5 in the 40...did I mention we have Hall and Los?
10) Not falling
11) I'd be pissed!!!! BUST.
12) Intriguing...but not worth 13th overall..one year wonder (I said it Mayock)
13) Haven't been this excited about a prospect since 2004 draft...I miss him
14) Reference comment #1
15) late first round value (plus I hate OSU..go State)/2nd round value

Dude, imagine if we only drafted for need in 2007 and went after a DT like Okoye instead of Landry (who we didn't desperately need at the time). We have to look past this year and focus on building a winning franchise and Rey looks like the next Ray!!!

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I honestly dont know why everyone is so in love w/ rey. yea, hes a big hitter...so what. hes not even the prospect that Arrington was. And its been said that he plays outside the system, like Arrington did, but the big differences between the 2 are:
1. Arrington was bigger
2. Faster
3. More athletic
4. Extremely agile
I got a question....wheres Arrington now? I know...out the league. Wanna know why? Because he was out of position alot which resulted in a lot of big plays. before he blew his knee out, his athleticism and speed allowed to make up being out of position. After he blew out his knee, he lost a step or two therefore he couldnt make up for being out of position which resulted in a lot more big plays, end result...nobody wanted him.

And no, playing Rey at SLB is not an option, because he runs a 4.7-4.8...hes too slow, not to mention he would be a liability in pass coverage. I love big hitters, but you have to be close enough to someone to hit him.

The only place he fits is at MLB which unfortunately is occupied by Mr. Fletcher(our defensive MVP last year)Remember him? Do you wanna tell him hes gotta change positions or even worse bench him for Rey or do you want release or trade him? I dont think so.

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[quote=RIP21GOSkins;544345]I honestly dont know why everyone is so in love w/ rey. yea, hes a big hitter...so what. hes not even the prospect that Arrington was. And its been said that he plays outside the system, like Arrington did, but the big differences between the 2 are:
1. Arrington was bigger
2. Faster
3. More athletic
4. Extremely agile
I got a question....wheres Arrington now? I know...out the league. Wanna know why? Because he was out of position alot which resulted in a lot of big plays. before he blew his knee out, his athleticism and speed allowed to make up being out of position. After he blew out his knee, he lost a step or two therefore he couldnt make up for being out of position which resulted in a lot more big plays, end result...nobody wanted him.

And no, playing Rey at SLB is not an option, because he runs a 4.7-4.8...hes too slow, not to mention he would be a liability in pass coverage. I love big hitters, but you have to be close enough to someone to hit him.

The only place he fits is at MLB which unfortunately is occupied by Mr. Fletcher(our defensive MVP last year)Remember him? Do you wanna tell him hes gotta change positions or even worse bench him for Rey or do you want release or trade him? I dont think so.[/quote]

Wasn't Lavar our best player at one point? For a few seasons actually. Did Arrington make a few pro-bowl appearances? Didn't he have a new DEF Coordinator every year (same excuse you guys love to give Campbell), until his last two years with Gregg "Huge Ego" Williams?

Bigger, huh? (Arrington 6'3" at 247 lbs. - Maualuga 6'1" at 249 lbs.) no taller.
Maualuga was clocked by Mayock at 4.68 at his recent Pro-day (with a recently pulled hamstring). Pass coverage liability, look at the film from the senior bowl. He stayed in on third downs. watch USC games, he rorated in on passing downs.

No one is discrediting London Fletcher, I love the guy. But, he's turning 34 in May!!! Why pass on a 22 year old stud with HOF potential? So what he'll play slightly out of position for 1 season or 2? Let him learn under London then take over when the time is ready. Rey was the best player on the nation's best defense. The Alpha male in a pack of first round talent! he's a leader, he sets the tone. You guys gotta stop looking at the upcoming season and stopping there, think of the franchise's longevity when you consider how to build a team. Imagine if we did that in 2005 and would have taken Merriman with the 9th pick overall instead of Los. We didn't need Merriman because the afformentioned Mr. Arrington was still on the roster so we reached on Los (due to Smoot's departure). If you're gonna draft in the first, take the best player available (reference the Patriots, Steelers, Colts, Ravens). Besides, are you telling me that Rey wouldn't be an upgrade, albeit out of position, at SLB over who we currently have on the roster? I would argue better than the last 2 years with Marcus becasue we can get a full 16 games out of him. The bottom line...draft Rey!!!

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[quote=Son Of Man;544341][B]Dude, imagine if we only drafted for need in 2007 and went after a DT like Okoye instead of Landry (who we didn't desperately need at the time).[/B] We have to look past this year and focus on building a winning franchise and Rey looks like the next Ray!!![/quote]Wouldn't we probably be better off if this happened?

I mean, Okoye had a down year as a second year player after a promising rookie season, but Landry did as well. NFL teams really exposed all of Landry's weaknesses this year. Now he has to either adapt, or get out. Both of them do.

Okoye is still the better prospect.

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[quote=GTripp0012;544367]Wouldn't we probably be better off if this happened?

I mean, Okoye had a down year as a second year player after a promising rookie season, but Landry did as well. NFL teams really exposed all of Landry's weaknesses this year. Now he has to either adapt, or get out. Both of them do.

Okoye is still the better prospect.[/quote]

Landry was asked to play 30 yards off the ball which is why his stats were down! When did he get exposed? What game? What player? He's a safety that runs 4.38 and hits like a freight train. Dude, your lunchin.
BTW- Okoye plays alongside Mario Williams so he only gets one-on-one match ups. Are you seriously calloing him a better prospect? Yeah we'd be better off with him and have who at FS?

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[quote=Son Of Man;544364]Wasn't Lavar our best player at one point? For a few seasons actually. Did Arrington make a few pro-bowl appearances? Didn't he have a new DEF Coordinator every year (same excuse you guys love to give Campbell), until his last two years with Gregg "Huge Ego" Williams?

Bigger, huh? (Arrington 6'3" at 247 lbs. - Maualuga 6'1" at 249 lbs.) no taller.
Maualuga was clocked by Mayock at 4.68 at his recent Pro-day (with a recently pulled hamstring). Pass coverage liability, look at the film from the senior bowl. He stayed in on third downs. watch USC games, he rorated in on passing downs.

No one is discrediting London Fletcher, I love the guy. But, he's turning 34 in May!!! Why pass on a 22 year old stud with HOF potential? So what he'll play slightly out of position for 1 season or 2? Let him learn under London then take over when the time is ready. Rey was the best player on the nation's best defense. The Alpha male in a pack of first round talent! he's a leader, he sets the tone. You guys gotta stop looking at the upcoming season and stopping there, think of the franchise's longevity when you consider how to build a team. Imagine if we did that in 2005 and would have taken Merriman with the 9th pick overall instead of Los. We didn't need Merriman because the afformentioned Mr. Arrington was still on the roster so we reached on Los (due to Smoot's departure). If you're gonna draft in the first, take the best player available (reference the Patriots, Steelers, Colts, Ravens). Besides, are you telling me that Rey wouldn't be an upgrade, albeit out of position, at SLB over who we currently have on the roster? I would argue better than the last 2 years with Marcus becasue we can get a full 16 games out of him. The bottom line...draft Rey!!![/quote]

Some nice points SOM...

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[quote=Son Of Man;544390]Landry was asked to play 30 yards off the ball which is why his stats were down! When did he get exposed? What game? What player? He's a safety that runs 4.38 and hits like a freight train. Dude, your lunchin.
BTW- Okoye plays alongside Mario Williams so he only gets one-on-one match ups. Are you seriously calloing him a better prospect? Yeah we'd be better off with him and have who at FS?[/quote]Uh, we'd have whoever we drafted last year to replace ST at safety.

And for a guy who plays 30 yards off the ball, we probably shouldn't have given up long pass plays to Larry Fitzgerald and Nate Washington (just to name two). Then there was the cover three TD play against the Saints, where Drew Brees manipulated him with his eyes way, way too easily, getting a 25 yard inside seam basically uncovered.

It is safe to agree with you that he's probably ill suited for a role that was created with Taylor in mind, even if he did play it very well at the end of 2007.

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[quote=GTripp0012;544451]Uh, we'd have whoever we drafted last year to replace ST at safety.

And for a guy who plays 30 yards off the ball, we probably shouldn't have given up long pass plays to Larry Fitzgerald and Nate Washington (just to name two). Then there was the cover three TD play against the Saints, where Drew Brees manipulated him with his eyes way, way too easily, getting a 25 yard inside seam basically uncovered.

It is safe to agree with you that he's probably ill suited for a role that was created with Taylor in mind, even if he did play it very well at the end of 2007.[/quote]

You just named two of the best at their position (who happen to school everybody) and the defending Super Bowl champions. For a 2nd year player, playing out of position, I think all you've done is further prove my point.

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[quote=Son Of Man;544465]You just named two of the best at their position (who happen to school everybody) and the defending Super Bowl champions. For a 2nd year player, playing out of position, I think all you've done is further prove my point.[/quote]I don't have any idea what point you're trying to make, so I guess that's possible.

I think your point is something like: having Landry is better than having Okoye and Kenny Phillips (as an example of someone we might have drafted instead). I pointed out that Landry had a down year last year (something that Okoye also had). You can't dispute that, all you said was that Landry runs really fast and hits like a truck. Great, but, I don't care.

He's got issues with play diagnosis and tackling. He makes a lot of mistakes still. He's a second year player, and he's going to get better for sure. But I still think Okoye, who is only going to be 22 this year, is a much better prospect.

I don't know what that's confusing you so much. Perhaps I was unclear.

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[quote=GTripp0012;544467]I don't have any idea what point you're trying to make, so I guess that's possible.

I think your point is something like: having Landry is better than having Okoye and Kenny Phillips (as an example of someone we might have drafted instead). I pointed out that Landry had a down year last year (something that Okoye also had). You can't dispute that, all you said was that Landry runs really fast and hits like a truck. Great, but, I don't care.

[B]He's got issues with play diagnosis and tackling. He makes a lot of mistakes still. He's a second year player, and he's going to get better for sure[/B]. But I still think Okoye, who is only going to be 22 this year, is a much better prospect.

I don't know what that's confusing you so much. Perhaps I was unclear.[/quote]

Sounds eerily similar to the analysis of a safety we drafted in 2004 early on in his career.

It's all good. We're just two B&G fans who love the team, debating a past draft. That being said....DRAFT MAUALUGA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I don't follow the confusion on Landry's performance. First of all, he's not playing out of position. He was a FS @ LSU and literally kept opposing QBs from going deep his entire senior year. We may have liked to put him a SS before the tragedy...but Landry is well suited to play FS and personally that's where I believe he'll make the Pro-Bowl. Second, why are people forgetting he suffered a bad hammy pull before the season started and looked a step or two behind all year? An obvious explanation for the lack of INTs and explosiveness after he looked so good in '07. Hopefully he's not injury prone...I don't believe he was in college. But basically I'm saying there's every reason to believe a healthy Laron is the top NFC safety in '09 and probably top 3 for the league. Again, look at his dominance in college. There's a reason we drafted him @ 7 and he was roundly considered the top defensive player that year by Kiper and many others.

...exhale.

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Landry (FS) + Horton (SS) > Moore (FS) + Landry (SS)

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[quote=Son Of Man;544508]Sounds eerily similar to the analysis of a safety we drafted in 2004 early on in his career. [/quote]You are correct, that's a guy who had play diagnosis issues and really exploded taking about four steps forward in 2007. It only makes it worse that it ended like it did.

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I'm starting to like the idea of getting Ayers at 13. Not only does he has the size to play LE but he also saw a lot of time at RE. I know he didn't put up big numbers as a pass rusher (still 15.5 TFL is a lot) but with Haynesworth the sky could be the limit. Plus at the very least it's an upgrade of the line. Now if only they can find the next Chris Cooley at OT. Theres definitely some good guys available. I personally like the fellow from Oregon but we'll see. Tony Kropog also seems like a good option at RT due to his ability to pass protect as well as his speed that allows him to make blocks downfield.

At the same time I think I'm starting to get off the Rey bandwagon. Won't mind so much if we get him but from what I've read and seen the guy seems like an A-hole.

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Ayers and Haynesworth share the same agent I believe

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[quote=SmootSmack;544773]Ayers and Haynesworth share the same agent I believe[/quote]

If that's the case I wouldn't be surprised if Haynesworth personally recommended him to Ayers, considering they're both "alumni" (I don't know if they actually graduated) of Tennessee. Plus I don't know though if it's just me but in looking at highlights of Orakpo and Ayers I felt like Ayers looked more fluid.

By the way, any chance Vinny is interested in my boy, Tony Kropog?

Re: Redskins Pre-Draft Visits and Private Workouts: 2009 Version
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;544789]If that's the case I wouldn't be surprised if Haynesworth personally recommended him to Ayers, considering they're both "alumni" (I don't know if they actually graduated) of Tennessee.

By the way, any chance Vinny is interested in my boy, Tony Kropog?[/quote]I'm pretty convinced we're not going to take an OT at 13 right now. I think we should, but I don't think we will.

So, it would fall onto a third round pick to be the next RT of the Washington Redskins. And Kropog would definately be in the discussion at that point.

My personal opinion is that the first rounder should get the OL need out of the way, OT or C, and then in the third round, we should look at undervalued Running Backs or Linebackers. But I think Vinny's going to lock on Maybin or Ayers or Matthews at 13, and push the offensive needs off to later. I think that's a minor mistake, but not a dehabilitating one.

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I do think if Andre Smith is around, they'll pull the trigger. I'm actually pretty convinced they'll pass on Oher if he's there. I'm not convinced they are as worried about Samuels' future as I am. So the LT prospects are off the board, me thinks.

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[quote=GTripp0012;544791]I'm pretty convinced we're not going to take an OT at 13 right now. I think we should, but I don't think we will.

So, it would fall onto a third round pick to be the next RT of the Washington Redskins. And Kropog would definately be in the discussion at that point.

My personal opinion is that the first rounder should get the OL need out of the way, OT or C, and then in the third round, we should look at undervalued Running Backs or Linebackers. But I think Vinny's going to lock on Maybin or Ayers or Matthews at 13, and push the offensive needs off to later. I think that's a minor mistake, but not a dehabilitating one.[/quote]

I agree -- but hope that that's not the case. I mean how many times have we pushed the line off for something else? So Vinny is thinking, "We got Dockery, Heyer looks good, Jansen is working out, things are good!" Pretty much the same attitude we go into the season with every year, it's good enough as it stands. Let's just hope that it does "stand" this year.

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[quote=tryfuhl;544793]I agree -- but hope that that's not the case. I mean how many times have we pushed the line off for something else? So Vinny is thinking, "We got Dockery, Heyer looks good, Jansen is working out, things are good!" Pretty much the same attitude we go into the season with every year, it's good enough as it stands. Let's just hope that it does "stand" this year.[/quote]And as Smootsmack as pointed out, they go out of their way to say "Devin Clark" everytime the OL is the subject of conversation. So when they add only one OLman in the third round of the draft, they can say that they really like Stephon Heyer at RT, and think the world of Derrick Dockery, and think that Devin Clark is the future at RG, and Chad Rinehart is making some strides, and all of a sudden the Redskins have the strongest "JV" OL in the division third round pick considered.

There's still no one to handle Samuels' job should he go down, but hey, aging players don't get hurt ever, so we're good.

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[quote=Dirtbag359;544764]I'm starting to like the idea of getting Ayers at 13. Not only does he has the size to play LE but he also saw a lot of time at RE. I know he didn't put up big numbers as a pass rusher (still 15.5 TFL is a lot) but with Haynesworth the sky could be the limit. Plus at the very least it's an upgrade of the line. Now if only they can find the next Chris Cooley at OT. Theres definitely some good guys available. I personally like the fellow from Oregon but we'll see. Tony Kropog also seems like a good option at RT due to his ability to pass protect as well as his speed that allows him to make blocks downfield.

At the same time I think I'm starting to get off the Rey bandwagon. Won't mind so much if we get him but from what I've read and seen the guy seems like an A-hole.[/quote]

Well said. Rey is a heckuva football player but when people talk about him as the next Urlacher methinks they overrate him. If nothing else he plays slower than Urlacher.

Ayers, on the other hand, is an excellent fit for the defense in terms of size, speed, and skills. If we go defense at #13, it should be Ayers.

All this having been said, I'm with those who say if there is a fine OT left at 13, the Redskins should draft that guy. That is, as long as that guy is not Andre Smith. I'm among those who think he is too risky. Then again, Cinci likely will take him before #13, anyway. Oher, Beatty, or Britton would be good choices.

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[quote=GTripp0012;544791]I'm pretty convinced we're not going to take an OT at 13 right now. I think we should, but I don't think we will.

So, it would fall onto a third round pick to be the next RT of the Washington Redskins. And Kropog would definately be in the discussion at that point.

[B]My personal opinion is that the first rounder should get the OL need out of the way, OT or C, and then in the third round, we should look at undervalued Running Backs or Linebackers.[/B] But I think Vinny's going to lock on Maybin or Ayers or Matthews at 13, and push the offensive needs off to later. [B] I think that's a minor mistake, but not a dehabilitating one[/B].[/quote]

I agree but hate to see the chance of us pushing our o-line to the next level passed up. They seem to be ok with the idea of our o-line "getting by". From a different perspective when you look at teams like Pittsburgh and the Ravens you can see how far an[B] excellent[/B] defense can take you and I don't think we're as good on "D" as we need to be to become an elite team. At least not without filling a couple of holes or a big improvement on offense. There are players on both sides of the ball in the 3rd who can help us, but I believe there is more talent on the defensive side of the ball in the third who could help us because I don't think the need is as big there, as far as first round talent, as there is for the offense. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a dominating 0-line. You would think with the success we had with the Hogs, this would be understood by those who are building this team.

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[quote=53Fan;544823]I agree but hate to see the chance of us pushing our o-line to the next level passed up. They seem to be ok with the idea of our o-line "getting by". From a different perspective when you look at teams like Pittsburgh and the Ravens you can see how far an[B] excellent[/B] defense can take you and I don't think we're as good on "D" as we need to be to become an elite team. At least not without filling a couple of holes or a big improvement on offense. There are players on both sides of the ball in the 3rd who can help us, but I believe there is more talent on the defensive side of the ball in the third who could help us because I don't think the need is as big there, as far as first round talent, as there is for the offense. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a dominating 0-line. [B]You would think with the success we had with the Hogs, this would be understood by those who are building this team[/B].[/quote]


I see what your saying, but in my opinion, any player in the draft is a total crap shoot. And if you're talking about the hogs, it should be noted that they were a bunch of old, burly, blue-collar type guys that spent a lot of time together on and off the field (the 5 o'clock club). I think the line we have now is the closest thing we've had to the hogs, they just so happened to be injured last year. I'm not saying the O line should not be addressed in the draft, I'm just a little weary of prospects like Oher, who has short arms, said to be a liability in pass pro and couldn't even put up more than 22 reps at the combine. I'm not so sure I would invest in a guy like this with the 13th pick, just too many question marks. Besides, most of the recent mock drafts I've seen have Smith, Smith and Monroe off the board before we pick (which I believe is totally plausible) and they have Oher falling to the bottom of the 1st. I would love to get your boy Mack, but we would certainly have to pull off an unlikely trade in order for that to happen.

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Any more names to add to the workout list? We, myself included, seem to have gotten off the subject.

BTW- I do not want Ayers with the 13th overall pick, I'm a Maualuga fan myself. However, Mayock seems to think that this guy will have the best NFL career of defensive player in the draft this year, including Curry. I remember he said the same thing about Cutler in 2006 when majority opinon was Leinert or Vinve Young. Maybe he's on to something...then again, he was in love with Vernon Gholston last year.

Screw it, Draft Maualuga!!!!

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[quote=Dirtbag359;544764]I'm starting to like the idea of getting Ayers at 13. Not only does he has the size to play LE but he also saw a lot of time at RE. I know he didn't put up big numbers as a pass rusher (still 15.5 TFL is a lot) but with Haynesworth the sky could be the limit. Plus at the very least it's an upgrade of the line. Now if only they can find the next Chris Cooley at OT. Theres definitely some good guys available. I personally like the fellow from Oregon but we'll see. Tony Kropog also seems like a good option at RT due to his ability to pass protect as well as his speed that allows him to make blocks downfield.

At the same time I think I'm starting to get off the Rey bandwagon. [B]Won't mind so much if we get him but from what I've read and seen the guy seems like an A-hole.[/B][/quote]

I think u mean Rey-hole :) Haven't heard anything like that apart from him having a real tough time when his dad died. I think the dc @ USC sort of took Rey under his wing and now the kid is just looking to be a dominant force in the league...but I wonder if it takes a bit of an a-hole to play so damn tough and nasty.

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[quote=The Goat;544857]I think u mean Rey-hole :) Haven't heard anything like that apart from him having a real tough time when his dad died. I think the dc @ USC sort of took Rey under his wing and now the kid is just looking to be a dominant force in the league...[B]but I wonder if it takes a bit of an a-hole to play so damn tough and nasty[/B].[/quote]

Doesn't hurt!

Re: Redskins Pre-Draft Visits and Private Workouts: 2009 Version
 

[quote=The Goat;544857]I think u mean Rey-hole :) Haven't heard anything like that apart from him having a real tough time when his dad died. I think the dc @ USC sort of took Rey under his wing and now the kid is just looking to be a dominant force in the league...but [B]I wonder if it takes a bit of an a-hole to play so damn tough and nasty[/B].[/quote]

Reference: Rodney Harrison, Ronnie Lott, Dick Butkus, Mean Joe Green, Lawrence Taylor, Mike Singletary (still an a-hole), Ray Nitchke, and last but not least...the great Sean Taylor. Takes a little bit of an a-hole to level a punter during an all-star game. I loved that guy! That's the kind of swagger our defense needs!

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[quote=Son Of Man;544864]Reference: Rodney Harrison, Ronnie Lott, Dick Butkus, Mean Joe Green, Lawrence Taylor, Mike Singletary (still an a-hole), Ray Nitchke, and last but not least...the great Sean Taylor. Takes a little bit of an a-hole to level a punter during an all-star game. I loved that guy! That's the kind of swagger our defense needs![/quote]

Joe Theisman should be at the top of that list.

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[quote=The Goat;544857]I think u mean Rey-hole :) Haven't heard anything like that apart from him having a real tough time when his dad died. I think the dc @ USC sort of took Rey under his wing and now the kid is just looking to be a dominant force in the league...but I wonder if it takes a bit of an a-hole to play so damn tough and nasty.[/quote]

It might but guys like Troy Polamalu make me think otherwise. Anyway heres the lowdown on Rey's personal problem. Scouts Inc gave him a 4 out of 5 (5 being the worst) on his character rating.

"He was arrested in November of 2005 for suspicion of misdemeanor battery following a fight he was involved in during a Halloween party. He turned himself into authorities and agreed to attend anger management and Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, as well as perform community service. Father died of brain cancer two days prior to 2006 Rose Bowl. Maualuga was also disciplined for his involvement in an incident at a fraternity party in October of 2006. Was demoted to special teams versus Oregon State that season after he overslept a meeting."

Plus theres this video of him doing the "sneaky dance" on Erin Andrews. Which to be honest I couldn't help but laugh, but at the same time it's not something that you want from a guy that would eventually be a leader on the team.

[YT]XyC_VSmi0D4[/YT]

With that said Ayers also has a record and a character rating of 4/5 (again 5 being the bad):

"Charged with aggravated assault in 2005 and Tennessee suspends him from team. School suspends him from summer school and puts him on indefinite suspension. Charges reportedly stem from fights between football players and fraternity members. The charge is later reduced to misdemeanor assault and Ayers pleads guilty. Reportedly, he was not the most coachable player early in his career but has since matured."

Now that I think about it both of these guys worry me equally now. I mean for god sakes they were getting into fights at frat parties. Imagine what happens when they go to a club, at that point it's no longer frat boys, now it's gang members and other sorts of organized crime. Of course at the same time nothing wrong with some jocks sticking it to some douche bags with popped collars (not that all frat's are bad).

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Also with our pick at 13, if it is between an OT and a DE like Ayers then it's kind of like what do you want to do. Do you take Ayers in hopes that you can mimmic the Giants dominant Defensive front (Ayers has drawn comparisons to Justin Tuck) and at the same time use 3rd round picks to find guys that can help you out on the O-Line (like the Giants) or do you think "hey we had the fourth ranked defense last year and we just added Haynesworth." It's time to get the O-line fixed and possibly add a project at DE like Kyle Moore or god forbid Lawrence Sidbury (though he's probably going to be a mid 2nd round pick even if he's not graded as such).