Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

It comes down to this. Orakpo = Jason Taylor. All the info coming out of Redskins Park was that they were gonna stand Taylor up more and utilize him in a more hybrid mode. When Taylor flaked we got lucky and drafted Taylor 2.0. Insert Orakpo for said position description and continue on. The plan all along has been to maintain contain with our ends as much as possible and rush off the edges with speed from the LBs. Where Blades fits in that is questionable but I'd rather have Daniels and Orakpo on the field and Blades for depth at this point. It's a better base mix for us it seems to me.

Blades might be a decent linebacker but he doesn't do anything great. Phillip Daniels has no real pass rushing ability but he is as good a run stopping end as there is. With AH moving the middle backwards and freeing Griffin up a bit to make some magic we don't need continual pressure from LDE. Back him with a rushing LB to keep some balanced pressure and it works for me as our base. Plus the beauty is that we can change looks all over the place. Hell we could drop to a 3-4 and execute it pretty damn well in a gimmicky sort of way. With Haynesworth and Orakpo we have so much flexibility now. Of course this all depends on Orakpo actually being any good.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=FRPLG;554157]It comes down to this. Orakpo = Jason Taylor. All the info coming out of Redskins Park was that they were gonna stand Taylor up more and utilize him in a more hybrid mode. When Taylor flaked we got lucky and drafted Taylor 2.0. Insert Orakpo for said position description and continue on. The plan all along has been to maintain contain with our ends as much as possible and rush off the edges with speed from the LBs. Where Blades fits in that is questionable but I'd rather have Daniels and Orakpo on the field and Blades for depth at this point. It's a better base mix for us it seems to me.

Blades might be a decent linebacker but he doesn't do anything great. [B]Phillip Daniels has no real pass rushing ability but he is as good a run stopping end as there is.[/B] With AH moving the middle backwards and freeing Griffin up a bit to make some magic we don't need continual pressure from LDE. Back him with a rushing LB to keep some balanced pressure and it works for me as our base. Plus the beauty is that we can change looks all over the place. Hell we could drop to a 3-4 and execute it pretty damn well in a gimmicky sort of way. With Haynesworth and Orakpo we have so much flexibility now. Of course this all depends on Orakpo actually being any good.[/quote]

Wasn't too long ago (maybe 2005?) Daniels posted 8 sacks in one season from the LDE position...sure he's aged but a healthy Daniels can really surprise you, in part cuz he's so damn serious about his fitness.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=Schneed10;554143]So you're thinking he'd be on the field as a linebacker for a very limited number of packages, correct?

So then in most circumstances when he's not facing those packages, where does he play? Phillip Daniels rides the bench?[/quote]

I think run formations Orakpo will be at linebacker and Daniels at LDE. Orakpo won't have to cover a TE because Horton will cover the TE and Orakpo's responsibility would be to run blitz or maybe cover the fullback or the slower TE, or zone maybe. And when they're not in those packages it's likely a passing situation/formation and he can play LDE. Initially when I saw Orakpo at LB I didn't like it, but the more I think about it the more I like it. We will be very solid against the run with AH, Daniels, and Orakpo. We can run blitz Orakpo which would also get real good QB pressure if they choose to throw. Stopping the run...forcing the other team into passing situations...QB pressure...their offense becomes uncomfortable...turnovers and punts...short field...Redskins score...Redskins win

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=Schneed10;554143]So you're thinking he'd be on the field as a linebacker for a very limited number of packages, correct?

So then in most circumstances when he's not facing those packages, where does he play? Phillip Daniels rides the bench?[/quote]On third downs, he's strictly a pass rusher. On rushing downs, I think he's going to be asked to split time with Carter at right end. I think it all depends on who we play. A pass heavy team, and one week, he could line up at end 100% of his snaps. Against a run heavy team, maybe 60-40%.

Inevitably, he's eventually going to be our RE. I just think the quickest way onto the field is SLB, and generally, that player doesn't often get man coverage responsibilities with Horton up near the line.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

It's important to remember that Orakpo isn't the only good end we have on this team. He's just the only one who is 23.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=GTripp0012;554081]Roosevelt Colvin. pwned.[/quote]

Didn't our very own Marcus Washington play DE at Auburn?

Double pwned

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

You are correct sir. Marcus played DE and had 7 sacks his senior year. Turned out to be a pretty good 4-3 LB I'd say.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

Let Orakpo stay at DE, Merriman will be a free agent next year. All 270+ pounds of him. how fun would that be?

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

haha

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=GTripp0012;554164]On third downs, he's strictly a pass rusher. On rushing downs, I think he's going to be asked to split time with Carter at right end. I think it all depends on who we play. A pass heavy team, and one week, he could line up at end 100% of his snaps. Against a run heavy team, maybe 60-40%.

Inevitably, he's eventually going to be our RE. I just think the quickest way onto the field is SLB, and generally, that player doesn't often get man coverage responsibilities with Horton up near the line.[/quote]

GT why are you dead set at seeing Rak RDE long term? Based on his skill set? Team needs? I just strikes me that w/ his strength and power (and given a little time to add mass the way Daniels did initially) Rak would be a beast @ LDE...able to stop the run and pressure/sack the QB w/ equal dominance.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=Mattyk72;554168]Didn't our very own Marcus Washington play DE at Auburn?

Double pwned[/quote]

Miathias Kiwanuka made the transition in 2007 too.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=The Goat;554199]GT why are you dead set at seeing Rak RDE long term? Based on his skill set? Team needs? I just strikes me that w/ his strength and power (and given a little time to add mass the way Daniels did initially) Rak would be a beast @ LDE...able to stop the run and pressure/sack the QB w/ equal dominance.[/quote]I think you can get away at LDE with a marginal pass rusher, because it's very, very easy for the offense to neutralize the rush on the strong side. If we put Orakpo there, we would need someone that offenses fear on the other side.

Two pass rushing ends works for some teams, but not for others. Freeney and Mathis can put QBs on their backs very quickly, but Denver went with two really small rushers last year...and well, let's just say their first pick this year was a pass rusher.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

^^ Denver's first pick was a RB, (it shouldve been a DE) but that's one reason we got Osackporomo.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;554220]^^ Denver's first pick was a RB, (it shouldve been a DE) but that's one reason we got Osackporomo.[/quote]Uh, right. First defensive pick then.

I guess I blocked that insanity out of my mind.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=Ruhskins;554026]As soon as I saw this I knew people were going to blow this out of proportion. Why is everyone so fixed on Vernon Gholston's failure, when you have both Shawne Merriman and Terrell Suggs as examples of DEs (in college) that made successful transitions to LBs? I'm not saying that Orakpo is going to be a LB, but just as you bring negative examples, there are positive examples of successful transition. Besides, when Greg Blache or Jim Zorn say the words "Orakpo will be a full time LB" stop speculating so much.[/quote]

I like how Gholston's career is over after one year. I seem to remember people saying that Mario Williams was a bust. Now he is considered a prototype.

I will defer to Greg Blache who might know a little more about defense over the people who automatically dismiss using Orakpo in more than one position.

Didn't they openly say throughout the draft process that they were so high on him because they could use him at linebacker some? If he was a one trick pony, they wouldn't have drafted him.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=GTripp0012;554219]I think you can get away at LDE with a marginal pass rusher, because it's very, very easy for the offense to neutralize the rush on the strong side. If we put Orakpo there, we would need someone that offenses fear on the other side.

[B]Two pass rushing ends works for some teams, but not for others.[/B] Freeney and Mathis can put QBs on their backs very quickly, but Denver went with two really small rushers last year...and well, let's just say their first pick this year was a pass rusher.[/quote]

This begs the question...why? Why does it work in some cases and why not in others? Why can't it work for us?

In Denver's case, I would argue that the answer to "Why?" is: lack of performance by the DE's, not the setup itself. Jarvis Moss is a bust. It doesn't matter what defensive strategy you pursue when you have a bust executing it.

Personally I see no reason, once Rak bulks up a bit, why we can't make Rak at LDE and Carter at RDE work. In fact, I look forward to this!

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=Lotus;554242]This begs the question...why? Why does it work in some cases and why not in others? Why can't it work for us?

In Denver's case, I would argue that the answer to "Why?" is: lack of performance by the DE's, not the setup itself. Jarvis Moss is a bust. It doesn't matter what defensive strategy you pursue when you have a bust executing it.

Personally I see no reason, once Rak bulks up a bit, why we can't make Rak at LDE and Carter at RDE work. In fact, I look forward to this![/quote]My answer to this at least, is that "it works, so long as both ends are better than the guys they are going up against." Jarvis Moss. Not better than most RTs in this league. Elvis Dumerville is only better than a handful of LTs.

The way I see it, by the time Orakpo has enough of a move arsenal to be a factor from the left side (remember that everything he did in college came from the right), Carter's best years (arguably 2007 and 2008), will be so far in the rear view mirror, that we will be searching for his replacement. By 2011, I see Orakpo as our full-time right end.

In the mean time, I caution against taking Orakpo out of his comfort zone. I like moving him around to get him mismatches as a rookie. But moving him around to exploit offensive weaknesses, and moving him around just for the sake of having him learn multiple moves from multiple positions are very different ideas.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=GTripp0012;554243]My answer to this at least, is that "it works, so long as both ends are better than the guys they are going up against." Jarvis Moss. Not better than most RTs in this league. Elvis Dumerville is only better than a handful of LTs.

The way I see it, by the time Orakpo has enough of a move arsenal to be a factor from the left side (remember that everything he did in college came from the right), Carter's best years (arguably 2007 and 2008), will be so far in the rear view mirror, that we will be searching for his replacement. By 2011, I see Orakpo as our full-time right end.

In the mean time, I caution against taking Orakpo out of his comfort zone. I like moving him around to get him mismatches as a rookie. But moving him around to exploit offensive weaknesses, and moving him around just for the sake of having him learn multiple moves from multiple positions are very different ideas.[/quote]

The clarification is appreciated GT...i see your logic now. The one follow up discussion point i have is who's to say we won't draft/sign a more pure passrusher to replace Carter in the coming season or two? What's easier to come by: a passrushing specialist at RDE or a phenom who can shut down the rush and flip the switch to pressure/sack the QB? I tend to think pass-rush specialists are more common/available. If Rak can be the phenom to do both things on the left side wouldn't it make sense? I guess the bottom line question is where can he make the biggest impact and reach his highest potential?

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=The Goat;554247]The clarification is appreciated GT...i see your logic now. The one follow up discussion point i have is who's to say we won't draft/sign a more pure passrusher to replace Carter in the coming season or two? What's easier to come by: a passrushing specialist at RDE or a phenom who can shut down the rush and flip the switch to pressure/sack the QB? I tend to think pass-rush specialists are more common/available. If Rak can be the phenom to do both things on the left side wouldn't it make sense? I guess the bottom line question is where can he make the biggest impact and reach his highest potential?[/quote]Absolutely we could do something like that. Established pass rushers just tend to run expensive, unless you get lucky with a late round find.

But your logic does make sense: could we use Orakpo like a Mario Williams type, and have sort of a platoon between a more run focused player and a third down specialist with orakpo playing whereever he is needed? Yeah, that makes sense. I just think that may be jumping the gun on how good Orakpo can be for us. I'd like to see him for two years before I conclude on how versatile a player he can be.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=GTripp0012;554248]Absolutely we could do something like that. Established pass rushers just tend to run expensive, unless you get lucky with a late round find.

But your logic does make sense: could we use Orakpo like a Mario Williams type, and have sort of a platoon between a more run focused player and a third down specialist with orakpo playing whereever he is needed? Yeah, that makes sense. [B]I just think that may be jumping the gun on how good Orakpo can be for us. I'd like to see him for two years before I conclude on how versatile a player he can be.[/B][/quote]

Word...but it is a challenge to not get overly jacked about him, watching vids of him play for Texas and of course the weight room spectacle.

Part of me still wishes we'd traded down and got Rey or Oher and another pick (in fact i fear by mid-season there will be weeping and wailing that we passed on Oher) but now that Rak's a Skin, and especially after seeing his attitude/character in pressers, i'm full go Orakpo and just want to see the braintrust develop him into an elite player over the long term. I'm one who really won't bitch and moan if we don't see him play a ton of snaps this year.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

Well, if things go according to plan, we already have pieces in place that make Orakpo a luxury on defense. The reason he's such a great pick is because things rarely go according to plan, and now we are probably as deep defensively as anyone in the NFL.

We have a good starting 11 on offense, but we're not very deep there at all.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=GTripp0012;554253]Well, if things go according to plan, we already have pieces in place that make Orakpo a luxury on defense. The reason he's such a great pick is because things rarely go according to plan, and now we are probably as deep defensively as anyone in the NFL.

We have a good starting 11 on offense, [B]but we're not very deep there at all.[/B][/quote]

That's what she said

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

I just want the dude to play where he can do the most DAMAGE. Wherever that may be.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=The Goat;554254]That's what she said[/quote]That's a stretch.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=GTripp0012;554258]That's a stretch.[/quote]

She said that too actually...

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;554220]^^ Denver's first pick was a RB, (it shouldve been a DE) but that's one reason we got Osackporomo.[/quote]

Off the subject, I know...but what a dumb freakin move that was! Their D was HORRIBLE last year and needed severe upgrade, and they draft a RB? They can turn any player into a stud at RB up there and they draft this kid in the first round? Why, so when he has 3 1300+ yard seasons they will trade him, or let him walk?

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=jsarno;554264]Off the subject, I know...but what a dumb freakin move that was! Their D was HORRIBLE last year and needed severe upgrade, and they draft a RB? They can turn any player into a stud at RB up there and they draft this kid in the first round? Why, so when he has 3 1300+ yard seasons they will trade him, or let him walk?[/quote]

I read a humorous column which claimed that they drafted Moreno so that he would be one less person who ran all over them, thereby improving their run defense.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

Nothing is set in stone yet. He could end up starting at LB and playing DE in pass situations or he could start at DE. You never know.

I don't see how people say he can't take on big tackles. The guy benches 515 pounds.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=jsarno;554264]Off the subject, I know...but what a dumb freakin move that was! Their D was HORRIBLE last year and needed severe upgrade, and they draft a RB? They can turn any player into a stud at RB up there and they draft this kid in the first round? Why, so when he has 3 1300+ yard seasons they will trade him, or let him walk?[/quote]

Ever since Shanahan was fired the Broncos seem to be plagued by questionable moves including the hiring of McDaniels.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=Mattyk72;554295]Ever since Shanahan was fired the Broncos seem to be plagued by questionable moves including the hiring of McDaniels.[/quote]

1-0 redskins.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=Mattyk72;554295]Ever since Shanahan was fired the Broncos seem to be plagued by questionable moves including the hiring of McDaniels.[/quote]

McDaniels always seems to have a terrified look in his eye.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=Lotus;554297]McDaniels always seems to have a terrified look in his eye.[/quote]


bill belilicheck was his boss

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=The Goat;554254]That's what she said[/quote]


Who is "she" exactly? Whoever she is she needs to shut up and keep her legs closed. LOL

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=SouperMeister;554051]Merriman and Suggs are poor examples since they are largely pass rushing 3-4 linebackers in the pros. Asking Orakpo to play LB in a 4-3 is a far more difficult transition. Hopefully his hand will be in the dirt on 3rd and long passing situations.[/quote]

T. Suggs was a DE at ASU which ran a 4-3 defense. He dropped in the draft do to his 40 time was slower than scouts expected. He has made a great transtion to the 3-4. You aree right i think the use Suggs more to rush the QB.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=SouperMeister;554051]Merriman and Suggs are poor examples since they are largely pass rushing 3-4 linebackers in the pros. Asking Orakpo to play LB in a 4-3 is a far more difficult transition. Hopefully his hand will be in the dirt on 3rd and long passing situations.[/quote]

T. Suggs was a DE at ASU which ran a 4-3 defense. He dropped in the draft do to his 40 time was slower than scouts expected. He has made a great transtion to the 3-4. You aree right i think the use Suggs more to rush the QB.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=Mattyk72;554295]Ever since Shanahan was fired the Broncos seem to be plagued by questionable moves including the hiring of McDaniels.[/quote]

Agreed, mcdanields should have gone to Kansas city with pioli that way they'd have cassel and all those new England guys over there and the same philosophy

Re: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

Some scouts feel that Rak will put on weight as he matures, maybe getting over 270 pounds. Then he would be better built to take the pounding that running teams will throw at him on the strong side. The team doesn't want to put Rak out of position at the LDE and have another Jason taylor situation. I'm comfortable with them taking a look at him as a tweener. We'll see how it plays out.

Re: RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=Mattyk72;554295]Ever since Shanahan was fired the Broncos seem to be plagued by questionable moves including the hiring of McDaniels.[/quote]

Well, when they think there are SEVERAL problems, you have to break down to build up. Their previous method didn't work out too well for them. They missed the playoffs the last 3 seasons, and have won exactly 1 playoff game after the 1998 season. Whether you think the moves are questionable or not, a shake up is exactly what this team needed.

Re: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=Son Of Man;554333]Some scouts feel that Rak will put on weight as he matures, maybe getting over 270 pounds. Then he would be better built to take the pounding that running teams will throw at him on the strong side. The team doesn't want to put Rak out of position at the LDE and have another Jason taylor situation. I'm comfortable with them taking a look at him as a tweener. We'll see how it plays out.[/quote]

This is my gut feeling too...won't be surprised if he's over 270 when all said and done. Plenty of room on that frame and I think he'll really focus on building leg strength at this level, which is the easiest way to add weight/mass.

Re: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker
 

[quote=The Goat;554377]This is my gut feeling too...won't be surprised if he's over 270 when all said and done. Plenty of room on that frame and I think he'll really focus on building leg strength at this level, which is the easiest way to add weight/mass.[/quote]

I feel the same. I also feel like sending him a case of steaks and some workout music as encouragement.