Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=redskins1974;556158][B]I hope for a strong year as well, but this is the same stuff i was hearing last year about a 'JC breakout year".[/B] understanding he's changed coaches and offenses several times, however, a QB runs the offense. and we must be better then 16.6 ppg. that is awful. another year like last year and he'll be another teams backup in 2010.[/quote]

I think anyone who was hoping for a breakout year for JC last year was delusional.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=Paintrain;556147]From your fingers to God's eyes. For the record, I agree with you. I expect JC to have a strong year this year with breakout seasons from Thomas and Davis.[/quote]


I somehow always forget about Davis...but yeah he should be a beast.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=Ruhskins;556169]I think anyone who was hoping for a breakout year for JC last year was delusional.[/quote]

Last year was his best season as a pro.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=The Goat;556143]Word...kind of wish he'd have been at the park and made those remarks like 3 months ago lol. I think Holmgren is quietly noting how special Zorn is when it comes to developing QBs. [B]Does anyone think Hesselbeck could be a pro-bowl qb w/o Zorn's mentoring?[/B] I don't for a second...and likewise Zorn will take JC to a higher level.[/quote]

Nope. Zorn very much helped MH be who he is today.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=redskins1974;556158]I hope for a strong year as well, but [B]this is the same stuff i was hearing last year about a 'JC breakout year"[/B]. understanding he's changed coaches and offenses several times, however, a QB runs the offense. and we must be better then 16.6 ppg. that is awful. another year like last year and he'll be another teams backup in 2010.[/quote]

Leaving aside yards and TD's, JC did have a breakout year in terms of becoming turnover-stingy. Perhaps this year the yards and TD's will come as well.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=Lotus;556183]Leaving aside yards and TD's, JC did have a breakout year in terms of becoming turnover-stingy. Perhaps this year the yards and TD's will come as well.[/quote]

He had less picks then in previous years, but i dont think anyone would call it a breakout year by any stretch. Bottom line is we were 28th in the league or so in scoring offense, and that falls mainly on the QB.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=redskins1974;556185]He had less picks then in previous years, but i dont think anyone would call it a breakout year by any stretch. Bottom line is we were 28th in the league or so in scoring offense, and that falls mainly on the QB.[/quote]

I wouldn't put it on Campbell's shoulders, it goes on the entire offense. I would mainly put it on adapting to new playcalling.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=nimbh2;556077]i guess people should educate themselves before making comments[/quote]

Ok, let me get educated.....JC played lights out for 8 games. Of couse something changed the second 8 games. but you can't deny he did well, managed well (other then some of his blitz reads and 2 min. drill). In a perfect world JC will play like he did the first half of the yr and having a better knowledge of the offense might allow him to focus on his reading the defenses and learning how to adjust to them as well as working on his 2 min. drill. I think it was obvious Zorn could not work on everything his first yr. Heck he was having to teach the coach's the offense.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=redskins1974;556026]im so sick of talking about this. take us to the playoffs JC. or your gone (thankfully)[/quote]

Ok coach if he goes than whos going to take his spot? Oh let me guess Colt Brennan. I guess good QB are easy to find huh. Another inpatience monday morning arm chair coach.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=skins89moss;556253]Ok coach if he goes than whos going to take his spot? Oh let me guess Colt Brennan. I guess good QB are easy to find huh. Another inpatience monday morning arm chair coach.[/quote]

i'm sure snyder would test free agency or the draft, as he did this year. JC is on a short leash.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=DIRTEE;556190]I wouldn't put it on Campbell's shoulders, it goes on the entire offense. I would mainly put it on adapting to new playcalling.[/quote]

an offense is typically only as good as its QB...typically.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

Thanks Holmgren, you make a lot of sense, but Danny's just nodding pleasantly and offering you another drink. Unless JC has a spectacular year, he's gone; and it's my wager that he's still being shopped around, but this time on the double down low.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=redskins1974;556260]an offense is typically only as good as its QB...typically.[/quote]

If i had to pick one factor (out of the many) that typically determines the success of an offense it would be the offensive line.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=30gut;556285]If i had to pick one factor (out of the many) that typically determines the success of an offense it would be the offensive line.[/quote]

Agreed.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=30gut;556285]If i had to pick one factor (out of the many) that typically determines the success of an offense it would be the offensive line.[/quote]

Hard to argue with that 30gut.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=redskins1974;556185]He had less picks then in previous years, but i dont think anyone would call it a breakout year by any stretch. Bottom line is we were 28th in the league or so in scoring offense, and that falls mainly on the QB.[/quote]
Actually, Jason had had a problem with fumbling/ints so yes for that it was a breakout year as Lotus said. You then harped on yards and TDs, which Lotus also said he was not including, but hopes for that part this year. Also, our whole offense stalled at the 50 to 20, and even Zorn acknowledged that that was an area HE was looking to improve his playcalling in. I don't see a redzone stat on pro football reference, but I think our numbers were not below average, we just didn't get there enough.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=30gut;556285]If i had to pick one factor (out of the many) that typically determines the success of an offense it would be the offensive line.[/quote]

Ditto.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=The Goat;556289]Ditto.[/quote]

There's no need for name calling.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=53Fan;556295]There's no need for name calling.[/quote]

Haha. Kind of ironic how many of us tend to agree the OL is the central cog of an offense yet we're basically relying on everyone else to step up because the line didn't get much attention (again) this offseason. Maybe it's the sunshine but i'm optimistic about the situation. While i expect the right side of the line to really struggle again JC will still find a way to improve and our WR corp should be at the next level. Altogether we should be an offense capable of a winning season.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=The Goat;556296]Haha. Kind of ironic how many of us tend to agree the OL is the central cog of an offense yet we're basically relying on everyone else to step up because the line didn't get much attention (again) this offseason. Maybe it's the sunshine but i'm optimistic about the situation. While i expect the right side of the line to really struggle again JC will still find a way to improve and our WR corp should be at the next level. [B]Altogether we should be an offense capable of a winning season[/B].[/quote]

I think so. I expect us to be better on both sides of the ball. I'm looking forward to this year.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=The Goat;556296]Haha. Kind of ironic how many of us tend to agree the OL is the central cog of an offense yet we're basically relying on everyone else to step up because the line didn't get much attention (again) this offseason. Maybe it's the sunshine but i'm optimistic about the situation. While i expect the right side of the line to really struggle again JC will still find a way to improve and our WR corp should be at the next level. [B]Altogether we should be an offense capable of a winning season.[/B][/quote]

Yes. I have no expectations of seeing something like the Greatest Show on Turf and certainly expect the offense to struggle at times, but I think the offense will be improved enough so that we are quite competitive.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

Yeah Holmgren's advice was pretty straight forward( almost a no brainer). JC h as the tools for sure, just has to get the mental crap down pat and more importantly, get a healthy O line plus guys that can actually catch the ball(other than Moss).

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;556288]Actually, Jason had had a problem with fumbling/ints so yes for that it was a breakout year as Lotus said. You then harped on yards and TDs, which Lotus also said he was not including, but hopes for that part this year. Also, our whole offense stalled at the 50 to 20, and even Zorn acknowledged that that was an area HE was looking to improve his playcalling in. I don't see a redzone stat on pro football reference, but I think our numbers were not below average, we just didn't get there enough.[/quote]

we were 21st in total yards....thats below average. 28th in scoring....

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=redskins1974;556317]we were 21st in total yards....thats below average. 28th in scoring....[/quote]

CRedskinsRule was talking specifically about the red zone.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=redskins1974;556317]we were 21st in total yards....thats below average. 28th in scoring....[/quote]Unfortunately, your knowledge of our offense last year seems to end at this, so color us unconvinced at your argument.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=GTripp0012;556325]Unfortunately, your knowledge of our offense last year seems to end at this, so color us unconvinced at your argument.[/quote]

You're so cold Tripp. :)

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

Obviously, he was talking to Snyder. Holmgren had like 6 years in Seattle and finally made the BIg Game. Zorn won't have that long. Campbell definitley won't. I like Holmgren, though. He was Gibbs' best friend among the current coaches. He's into cars.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=53Fan;556327]You're so cold Tripp. :)[/quote]There's really nothing else to say. If he's convinced that a limited understanding of offensive totals can be blamed entirely on the QB, there's no reason to waste more than two lines on him.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=GTripp0012;556330]There's really nothing else to say. If he's convinced that a limited understanding of [B]offensive totals can be blamed entirely on the QB[/B], there's no reason to waste more than two lines on him.[/quote]

Unfortunately that is a view shared by way too many.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=Mattyk72;556094]If things don't work out this year with Zorn why the hell not? I'm hoping it doesn't come to that obviously.[/quote]
You think he'd come here after we got rid of Zorn? That's not a rhetorical question, but an actual one.

And how much do we think what Holmgren was saying was about Cambpell? Possible he's just trying to help buy Zorn more time, plus knows that the offense takes awhile? I mean even Zorn said he doesn't know if Campbell will end up being the guy, but said he has faith that he can be.

I doubt that Holmgren has studied Campbell anywhere near the level that Zorn has. Doesn't appear he really even spoke on any of Campbell's abilities. I think that just ties in with him not having studied Campbell as well though, not trying to say Campbell can't get it done.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;556006][URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/"]http://http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/[/URL][/quote]

Maybe if Holmgren comes back to coach with a different team he can take Campbell off our hands.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=tryfuhl;556358]You think he'd come here after we got rid of Zorn? That's not a rhetorical question, but an actual one.

And how much do we think what Holmgren was saying was about Cambpell? Possible he's just trying to help buy Zorn more time, plus knows that the offense takes awhile? I mean even Zorn said he doesn't know if Campbell will end up being the guy, but said he has faith that he can be.

[B]I doubt that Holmgren has studied Campbell anywhere near the level that Zorn has. Doesn't appear he really even spoke on any of Campbell's abilities. I think that just ties in with him not having studied Campbell as well though,[/B] not trying to say Campbell can't get it done.[/quote]

I don't think he needs to study him extensively, the facts are pretty commonly known and despite JC detractors efforts to minimize them, are legitimate factors in his "slow" development. Multiple offenses in a short period of time. Lack of multiple playmakers in the receiving corp. Inconsistent offensive line play. Give a guy another year in a system that most QB take 3 years to master, he's had one-patience. Give the guys young receivers another year to mature and grow-patience. Give the guy and a new head coach time to adapt and learn each other-patience. As much as we kill Snyder for his impatience, Redskins fans are a bunch of mini-mes in that regard.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=Paintrain;556387]I don't think he needs to study him extensively, the facts are pretty commonly known and despite JC detractors efforts to minimize them, are legitimate factors in his "slow" development. Multiple offenses in a short period of time. Lack of multiple playmakers in the receiving corp. Inconsistent offensive line play. Give a guy another year in a system that most QB take 3 years to master, he's had one-patience. Give the guys young receivers another year to mature and grow-patience. Give the guy and a new head coach time to adapt and learn each other-patience. [B]As much as we kill Snyder for his impatience, Redskins fans are a bunch of mini-mes in that regard.[/B][/quote]

:food-smil

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

Is holmgren looking for a front office gig.I think we should replace some people there. Not just for the qb offseason deal, we have a revolving door on coaches and offenses but some how there never a shake up in the front office. Holmgren on Campbell i think he might know a little bit on the matter i just hope the front office listens 2 him.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=GTripp0012;556325]Unfortunately, your knowledge of our offense last year seems to end at this, so color us unconvinced at your argument.[/quote]

well smart guy, convince me our offense was above average. you going to blame Portis for our lack of scoring? i do know the offense..JC wasnt the only problem, true, but he didnt step up very often outside the saints game. Defenses dont fear him in the least.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=redskins1974;556403]well smart guy, convince me our offense was above average. you going to blame Portis for our lack of scoring? i do know the offense..JC wasnt the only problem, true, but he didnt step up very often outside the saints game. Defenses dont fear him in the least.[/quote]First of all, I never said that we were an above average offense. I also never said we weren't. All I said is that if you were trying to make the the argument that looking at our offensive totals from a negative light is evidence that Campbell can't run our offense, you were highly unconvincing. I also didn't want to waste a ton of words (and everyone elses words) pointing that out.

Where I'm coming from is a world where no one has ever made a strong argument that Campbell shouldn't be our starter next year. This includes our own managament. Is there a reason to be concerned about Campbell as our future? Perhaps there is, but I've never read, heard, or have been able to come up with a strong argument that suggests that replacing him now would be in the best interest of the team.

Do understand that you aren't all alone in your belief that Campbell won't ever get it done here. But reason does abandon you.

Re: Holmgren on Campbell
 

[quote=redskins1974;556403]well smart guy, convince me our offense was above average. you going to blame Portis for our lack of scoring? i do know the offense..JC wasnt the only problem, true, but he didnt step up very often outside the saints game. Defenses dont fear him in the least.[/quote]
You're reinforcing his point by saying that 'he didn't step up very often'. Go back (if you have them or access to them) and watch the games. There were 3 games he was terrible in, 1st NYG, Pittsburgh and Baltimore, but then again we were terrible as a team in those games. Watch the Cincy, St. Louis, SF games again, those are the losses that kept us out of the playoffs and tell me how he didn't "step up".

A QB, moreso than ANY OTHER POSITION ON THE FIELD, can't perform without complimentary players. You can't ignore the OL disappointing down the stretch. For example, do you realize that in the Eagles game (which we won) we started Jason Fabini at RT? Seriously, Jason Fabini. What QB/offense is going to scare a defense starting Jason Fabini.

You can't ignore that we had 1.5 options in the passing game and defenses knew it so they took them away. It wasn't Campbell that defenses didn't fear, it was our offense as a whole. The formula was simple, take away Portis, double Moss, bracket Cooley and you stop our offense cold.

What other QB, please name at least one, would have thrived under those conditions. I'm not saying that JC is/was perfect or anything better than a slightly above average QB last season but the dissection of his lack of ability to be an NFL starter has gone beyond ridiculousness.