Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

I think that if they feel isolated enough, and China apparently helped draft this newest sanction, they will reach out more to Iran, and Japan becomes a very effective "don't tread on me message". I'm not saying it will happen, but only that they could see a path where Iran feeds them nuclear material, and trade, and bolstered by that relationship they think they can get away with a nuke on Japan. It would not be the first time a closed regime misunderstood the way US policy gets made.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;996733]"Now our enemies are trying to make additional sanctions against us, but we can never accept this," said Ri Kum Il, a Pyongyang citizen at the rally. "We will make a preemptive nuclear attack against our enemies wherever they are and turn their strongholds into a sea of flames." [/quote]Someone should have asked him: "What about decades of Juche? Was that all a lie to the people of NK?"

In the thread title I'd vote: Other. It's a tragedy.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;996775]nobody rattles the saber these days like DPRK. China would never let them fire a nuclear missle at us...all talk. [B]My big problem with them is trading nuclear arms with terrorists groups.[/[/B]QUOTE]

I'd say that's everyones biggest fear.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

Young inexperienced leader. Established military bureaucracy. Closed political system in which dissent is punished and information closely controlled. Economic dependency. Nine million active and active reserve army (1M active; 8M, active reserve).

Bad things my friends. Bad things.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

Lots of 'em no doubt.
How professional they are is the question.

[I]■The Reserve Military Training Unit consist of approximately 1.7 million persons (men 17-45 and unmarried women 17-30) who are not either in active duty or important rear area personnel. They are mobilized under supervision of provincial military units, for a total of forty days' training out of the year.
■The Worker-Peasant Militia is a combination of older men aged 45-60, along with men ages 17-45 and unmarried women ages 17-30 who are not included in Reserve Military Training Unit. They train for a total of thirty days out of the year. Their current numbers stand at 4.1 million.
■The Young Red Guards consist of 1.2 million male and female Higher Middle (High) School students aged 14-16. They are subject to a mandatory four-hour drill session every Saturday and a total of 160 hours of on-campus drills annually. A total of 450 hours of off-campus training is also mandatory.


Reserve Military Training Unit form the core of the reserves and are under the command of the Ministry of Defense in peace AND in wartime. Party Civil Defense Departments keep track of the Worker-Peasant Militia and the Young Red Guards in peace time, but the Ministry of Defense in contingencies.[/I]

[url=http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/army.htm]Korean People's Army[/url]

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=Chico23231;996775] My big problem with them is trading nuclear arms with terrorists groups.[/quote]

It shouldn't be a fear. Nuclear material can be traced to its origin, so anything nuclear passed on to a terrorist would be traced back to NK in the event something were to happen. At that point, NK (or any other country) would be treated exactly the same as if they had launched the weapon themselves.

Take for instance, Pakistan. They are known supporters of terrorists, and hold nuclear weapons. Not a single solitary nuclear device or materials has ever been passed on. They know their existence would end if it did.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/9917155/North-Korea-says-prepare-for-war-following-fresh-UN-sanctions.html]North Korea says 'prepare for war' following fresh UN sanctions - Telegraph[/url]

I love North Korean propaganda videos. Hilarious.


NK is thumping its chest wanting attention like a spoiled brat. It most likely wants more "funding" from us to feed their starving people, even though they'd rather use that money for weaponry. I would dare those assholes to do something. China is fed up with them, as is the rest of the world. WE SEE YOU, NOW SIT THE **** DOWN AND SHUT UP. THANKS!

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;996973]It shouldn't be a fear. Nuclear material can be traced to its origin, so anything nuclear passed on to a terrorist would be traced back to NK in the event something were to happen. At that point, NK (or any other country) would be treated exactly the same as if they had launched the weapon themselves.

Take for instance, Pakistan. They are known supporters of terrorists, and hold nuclear weapons. Not a single solitary nuclear device or materials has ever been passed on. They know their existence would end if it did.[/quote]

Didnt know it could be traced, thats very interesting. I just dont think they would be the ones to fire the weapon, more likely to pass it off to another to use agaisnt us.

I think China would go absolutely ape-shit, they wouldnt want a US backed country up against their border. NK would cease to exist after they launch a nuclear missle.

It would be WW3, Europe, US, SK, Aust, Japan, would probably engage fairly quickly. China's hands would be tied, no way could they defend a pre emptive launch of a nuclear weapon.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=Chico23231;996975]Didnt know it could be traced, thats very interesting. I just dont think they would be the ones to fire the weapon, more likely to pass it off to another to use agaisnt us.

[B]I think China would go absolutely ape-shit, they wouldnt want a US backed country up against their border. NK would cease to exist after they launch a nuclear missle. [/B]

It would be WW3, Europe, US, SK, Aust, Japan, would probably engage fairly quickly. China's hands would be tied, no way could they defend a pre emptive launch of a nuclear weapon.[/quote]

I don't think it's as simple as them having some barometer showing "This is X's enriched uranium", but I positive they would be able to break down the composition and tell which reactor (and make) it came from, thereby narrowing down the possibilities.

[url=http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19699-nuclear-bomb-debris-holds-clues-to-who-planted-it.html]Nuclear bomb debris holds clues to who planted it - science-in-society - 08 November 2010 - New Scientist[/url]


As far as NK goes, I wouldn't put it past China to invade NK before we could just so that scenario you mention didn't happen.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;996984]I don't think it's as simple as them having some barometer showing "This is X's enriched uranium", but I positive they would be able to break down the composition and tell which reactor (and make) it came from, thereby narrowing down the possibilities.

[URL="http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19699-nuclear-bomb-debris-holds-clues-to-who-planted-it.html"]Nuclear bomb debris holds clues to who planted it - science-in-society - 08 November 2010 - New Scientist[/URL]


As far as NK goes, I wouldn't put it past China to invade NK before we could just so that scenario you mention didn't happen.[/quote]

Sounds more like you would have to make an educated guess at best. We could let Collen Powell present the evidence to the UN. I hear he is pretty good at that. You say don't fear it getting into the wrong hands but that's our goverments biggest fear and why we care who has the capability.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;996973]It shouldn't be a fear. Nuclear material can be traced to its origin, so anything nuclear passed on to a terrorist would be traced back to NK in the event something were to happen. At that point, NK (or any other country) would be treated exactly the same as if they had launched the weapon themselves.

Take for instance, Pakistan. They are known supporters of terrorists, and hold nuclear weapons. Not a single solitary nuclear device or materials has ever been passed on. They know their existence would end if it did.[/quote]

I agree with you on this. Generically, sometimes it seems like people think nuclear weapon grade material is something that you just get and then bing bang boom you have a bomb. It's not really that simple. Further, even if a terrorist group were to get hold of something usable, getting it anywhere that it would be effective is nearly impossible as well.

All that said, comparing Pakistan's situation with NK, is not a good comparison. Although Pakistan does give aid and comfort to terrorists at some level, they are not a pariah in the international community, and their nuclear level is directly in response to India's equivalent threat. Pakistan needs to be seen as a good nuclear player, for fear of international backlash that would empower India. NK, on the other hand, is a dictatorial regime, and absolutely despises the West, and international rules.

One last difference is that from a perspective of haves and have nots, Pakistan is in the company of the haves on nuclear weapons which entitles them to more leeway, NK is a have not, and there is a belligerence towards all haves that comes from that.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=firstdown;996986]Sounds more like you would have to make an educated guess at best. We could let Collen Powell present the evidence to the UN. I hear he is pretty good at that. You say don't fear it getting into the wrong hands but that's our goverments biggest fear and why we care who has the capability.[/quote]
To go with NC_Skins on this, the government has a vested interest in keeping people afraid of terrorists. It allows them to act in ways that a non-fearful population would never allow. Between that fact, the media playing up singular fear inducing events, and Hollywood creating impossible situations to make an exciting plotline, I doubt the US population at large has any clue of what is and isn't possible. A terrorist cell doesn't get to test out their stuff, they aren't doing underground testing. They need something quick and dirty, and hope that no intelligence agency gets a whiff of it.


A side note: Do you know why the USSR and USA built enough weapons to destroy the world multiple of multiple times over? (anecdotal answer, not something stated as fact, but someone I know who would have reason to know at the time implied it - (this is my best a friend of a friend who knows a friend who worked in a lab answer):

The simple answer is because we didn't know with confidence that the actual weapons would work. We knew that all the moving parts worked per se, but the actual weapons, not as confident. The reason reduction treaties started being agreed to is that our confidence in the capability was maturing.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

This is a great look at the demilitarized zone closeup:

[url=http://www.businessinsider.com/north-and-south-korea-dmz-border-is-a-warzone-2013-2?op=1#ixzz2MxzDVIqn]North And South Korea DMZ - Business Insider[/url]

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;997000]This is a great look at the demilitarized zone closeup:

[URL="http://www.businessinsider.com/north-and-south-korea-dmz-border-is-a-warzone-2013-2?op=1#ixzz2MxzDVIqn"]North And South Korea DMZ - Business Insider[/URL][/quote]

That was a great read.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/analysis-bellicose-north-korea-forces-china-shift-stance-051542318--business.html]Analysis: Bellicose North Korea forces China to shift stance on old friend - Yahoo! News[/url]

This article has some interesting inside Chinese political views.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

So now the North Korean army says the armistice is invalid.
Really doesnt mean much unless you start shooting.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

My girlfriend is Korean. I find it interested that her family and in general, Koreans in general, seem to be ignoring all of this news. They just figure it's the North being the North. They see it as nothing but empty threats. Very itneresting.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/11/world/asia/as-north-korea-blusters-south-breaks-taboo-on-nuclear-talk.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&hp"]South Korea Flirts With Nuclear Ideas as North Blusters[/URL]

NY Times.com: By MARTIN FACKLER and CHOE SANG-HUN

"SEOUL, South Korea — As their country prospered, South Koreans have largely shrugged off the constant threat of a North Korean attack. But breakthroughs in the North’s missile and nuclear programs and fiery threats of war have heightened fears in the South that even small miscalculations by the new and untested leaders of each country could have disastrous consequences."

South Korea government: Malicious code in NongHyup bank system came from Chinese IP - @YonhapNews [url]http://t.co/UAQNSMbr7r[/url]


it just keeps going round and round

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=Daseal;997347]My girlfriend is Korean. I find it interested that her family and in general, Koreans in general, seem to be ignoring all of this news. They just figure it's the North being the North. They see it as nothing but empty threats. Very itneresting.[/quote]

Now we know why you kick puppies.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[url=http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/03/north-korea-human-rights/63415/]North Korea Says North Korea Is a Great Place for Human Rights - Alexander Abad-Santos - The Atlantic Wire[/url]



:laughing2

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1000020][url=http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/03/north-korea-human-rights/63415/]North Korea Says North Korea Is a Great Place for Human Rights - Alexander Abad-Santos - The Atlantic Wire[/url]



:laughing2[/QUOTE]

seriously, that sounds like an onion article.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

Thats as comical as Irans new stealth fighter.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1000043]seriously, that sounds like an onion article.[/quote]

I had to check twice just to make sure it wasn't a onion piece...lol





I love their propaganda videos. Good stuff....lol


[url=http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/north-korea-video-propaganda-us-troops-rockets-125355219.html]New North Korea video shows ‘defeat’ of U.S. troops[/url]


Let these idiots keep barking all they want. If they want to die and have their regime wiped out, by all means fire the first shot.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1000210]
Let these idiots keep barking all they want. If they want to die and have their regime wiped out, by all means fire the first shot.[/quote]

Yeah, i really dont know what North Korea is thinking. They are a tiny country with only 1 million soldiers. Yeah, thats enough to pose a minor threat in a conventional war to neighboring countries like Russia and China... but lets get real - Russia and China would annihilate them.

If they tried to attack anyone, it would be a matter of whether or not theyd be nuked out of existence, but which countries nukes would get them first.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

Babes of North Korea

[img]http://media.dumpert.nl/foto/df3baa47_0014.jpg[/img]

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[IMG]http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/168543_501937806527693_1547392104_n.png[/IMG]

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

The Adventures of Kim Jong Un

[YT]f37K0hIv3zk[/YT]

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[img]http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo181/shadow_walker44/France_zps18523bec.jpg[/img]

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[url=http://freebeacon.com/border-patrol/]China mobilizing troops, jets near Korea | Washington Free Beacon[/url]


Looks like China is stepping up the forces on the border.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/01/world/asia/us-north-korea-radar/index.html?hpt=hp_t1]U.S. moves warship, sea-based radar to watch North Korea - CNN.com[/url]


This should really piss off the fat man.

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1001314][url=http://freebeacon.com/border-patrol/]China mobilizing troops, jets near Korea | Washington Free Beacon[/url]


Looks like China is stepping up the forces on the border.[/QUOTE]

this is getting as serious as it has in a long time. would China back NK in a shooting match or just making sure we don't fly into there territory as we mop up.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1001337]this is getting as serious as it has in a long time. would China back NK in a shooting match or just making sure we don't fly into there territory as we mop up.[/quote]

No, they wouldn't back them. Only to secure their border so they wouldn't get a mass of refugees fleeing into their country. Hell if anything, they'd probably help at this point seeing as they've stopped a good bit of their trading with NK since the nuke test.



I still don't think people are really taking them serious.

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/u-north-korea-not-backing-threats-military-moves-185342098--politics.html]U.S.: North Korea not backing up threats with military moves[/url]

[quote]“I would note that—despite the harsh rhetoric we’re hearing from Pyongyang—we are not seeing changes to the North Korean military posture, such as large-scale mobilizations and positioning of forces,” press secretary Jay Carney told reporters at his daily briefing. "We haven’t seen action to back up the rhetoric.”[/quote]


People who attack, generally don't do it by announcing it to the world or making youtube videos on how they are going to dominate the US. They strike without warning so they can have the upper hand. This is the young boy's dog and pony act to show his people and generals he can bullshit like the best of em.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1001007]Babes of North Korea

[img]http://media.dumpert.nl/foto/df3baa47_0014.jpg[/img][/quote]

Very advance camo methods. Oak leaves in the hats and straw across their chest. Genius

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

The latest :

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/nkorea-refuses-let-skoreans-enter-042653455.html]NKorea refuses to let SKoreans enter joint factory[/url]

Last time they did this was 2009 during wargames, lasted for 3 days.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1001338]No, they wouldn't back them. Only to secure their border so they wouldn't get a mass of refugees fleeing into their country. Hell if anything, they'd probably help at this point seeing as they've stopped a good bit of their trading with NK since the nuke test.



I still don't think people are really taking them serious.

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/u-north-korea-not-backing-threats-military-moves-185342098--politics.html]U.S.: North Korea not backing up threats with military moves[/url]




[B]People who attack, generally don't do it by announcing it to the world or making youtube videos on how they are going to dominate the US. [/B] They strike without warning so they can have the upper hand. This is the young boy's dog and pony act to show his people and generals he can bullshit like the best of em.[/quote]

People who rule countries don't usually starve their people and keep them in near total darkness while constantly bombarding them with propaganda about destroying the enemy. That is unless they have no ability to lead them in a different direction.

NKorea is in the dark ages, and that goes for their leaders too. If he saber rattles too much, and then does nothing, his sway in the military will certainly take a hit, and he might not be willing to let that happen.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

At this point, i think it would be hillarious if the US responded to North Koreas threats in like manner:

"We have 200 nuclear submaries, each armed with 32 nuclear warheads. we have 100 nuclear missle silos scattered around our country. We have bombers, drones, and stealth planes also armed with nuclear warheads. We have the power to vaporize your entire country 800 times over. Half of your country doesnt even have electricity. Do you really want to F*ck with us?"

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

Might wanna do some fact checking before you rattle your sabre that hard.
We only have 14 subs that carry nuclear misles.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1001718]Might wanna do some fact checking before you rattle your sabre that hard.
We only have 14 subs that carry nuclear misles.[/quote]

I thought it was obvious that i was just making up numbers to prove a point, but i should have clarified.

Interestingly, i was on CNN in this morning and saw this:

[url=http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2013/03/world/nuclear-weapon-states/?iid=article_sidebar]Nuclear weapons: Who has what?[/url]

Country / Estimated warheads
United States: 7,650
Russia: 8,420
United Kingdom: 225
France: 300
China: 240
India: 80-100
Pakistan: 90-110
North Korea: Fewer than 10
Israel: 80
Iran: 0

I was pretty shocked at how many active Nukes the US and Russia still had, and i didnt know France had any.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

10 well placed nukes do a whole lotta damage. Of course the key words there are "well placed" and I am not sure NK could do that part.