Re: Palin to resign
 

Palin done bagged herself, forgot to gag herself, and managed to toss herself in the river. Have a safe trip down the waterfall Ms. Palin because there's no getting up from this fall.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=12thMan;566123]Well seven months into this admin, I wouldn't label anything a triumph. I wouldn't do it a year from now either.

Things he's done well, in my opinion. I could start with his visit to Russia today. Significant progress in the area of nuclear warheads. Significant. Anytime we get Russia to agree to reduce their nukes, along with ours, by a third that's a big deal. There were a few other good things that resulted in his visit to Russia. He's made some good and long overdue moves regarding Cuba too. Ditto the tone he's struck overall internationally.

In terms of domestic spending, which is one of the biggest sticking points by those on the right and some on the left quite frankly, we'll see. One thing's for sure, had McCain taken office, he would have taken similiar action. It may not have had the word "stimulus", but he would have taken similiar action. Probably to the tune of around $500 billion, instead of Obama's Neimen Maurcus taste of $787 billion.

If healthcare gets passed this year, no matter what version, I would most definitely chalk that up as a triumph.[/quote]

While as an American he is my President as well and I NEED him to be successful, I would really like to see some tangible results to the promises made. As you point out perhaps 7 months is early.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=Hog1;566128]While as an American he is my President as well and I NEED him to be successful, I would really like to see some tangible results to the promises made. As you point out perhaps 7 months is early.[/quote]
Also you really have to keep the economy and the hand he was unfortunately dealt. I doubt McCain would have been doing significantly better in the current situation we are in.

Either way 2012 should be competitive.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=Hog1;566128]While as an American he is my President as well and I NEED him to be successful, I would really like to see some tangible results to the promises made. As you point out perhaps 7 months is early.[/quote]

Well the good news is unemployment is going up and the stock market is going down. Ops, sorry I was trying to find something I thought he did well. I'll keep trying 12th.[IMG]http://www.thewarpath.net/images/icons/icon14.gif[/IMG]

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=hooskins;566129]Also you really have to keep the economy and the hand he was unfortunately dealt. I doubt McCain would have been doing significantly better in the current situation we are in.

Either way 2012 should be competitive.[/quote]

It's tough when your dealt a shit sandwich and asked to make a gourmet meal out of it, in a matter of months no less as opposed to the years it took to get to the shit sandwich state of affairs.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=firstdown;566130]Well the good news is unemployment is going up and the stock market is going down. Ops, sorry I was trying to find something I thought he did well. I'll keep trying 12th.[IMG]http://www.thewarpath.net/images/icons/icon14.gif[/IMG][/quote]

Off the top of my head, I believe the market is up since Obama has taken office. Not that that's of his doing anyway. But let's keep our fingers crossed on the economy. We ALL need it to recover.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=Hog1;566128]While as an American he is my President as well and I NEED him to be successful, I would really like to see some tangible results to the promises made. As you point out perhaps 7 months is early.[/quote]

Good perspective. I like that you just aren't blinding declaring his presidency a failure already. People seem to like doing that even though it's barely been half a year. :)

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=Mattyk72;566131]It's tough when your dealt a shit sandwich and asked to make a gourmet meal out of it, in a matter of months no less as opposed to the years it took to get to the shit sandwich state of affairs.[/quote]

Agreed. I'm just not a big fan of his ideas for turning said shit sandwich into a gourmet meal.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=Mattyk72;566131]It's tough when your dealt a shit sandwich and asked to make a gourmet meal out of it, in a matter of months no less as opposed to the years it took to get to the shit sandwich state of affairs.[/quote]
Yes, like he didn't make the sandwich along with F.Raines / J . Gorelick ... [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0&feature=related]YouTube - Explosive Video, Fannie Mae CEO calling Obama and the Dems the "Family" and "Conscience" of Fannie Mae[/ame]

Re: Palin to resign
 

[url=http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/update-fannie-mae-and-freddie.html]OpenSecrets | Update: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Invest in Lawmakers - Capital Eye[/url]... maybe Fannie Mae gave Dodd < Senate Finance Com. > and Obama all that money because they wanted to share the wealth ,,, not to keep the regulators off there backs ?

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;566139]Good perspective. I like that you just aren't blinding declaring his presidency a failure already. People seem to like doing that even though it's barely been half a year. :)[/quote] True , but they were calling Bush a failure in May of 2001 ...

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=12thMan;566135]Off the top of my head, I believe the market is up since Obama has taken office. Not that that's of his doing anyway. But let's keep our fingers crossed on the economy. We ALL need it to recover.[/quote]

Amen...

Re: Palin to resign
 

Best advice I have ever heard from Palin:

[yt]gA15XU23kEc[/yt]

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=12thMan;566123]Well seven months into this admin, I wouldn't label anything a triumph. I wouldn't do it a year from now either.

Things he's done well, in my opinion. I could start with his visit to Russia today. Significant progress in the area of nuclear warheads. Significant. Anytime we get Russia to agree to reduce their nukes, along with ours, by a third that's a big deal. There were a few other good things that resulted in his visit to Russia. He's made some good and long overdue moves regarding Cuba too. Ditto the tone he's struck overall internationally.

In terms of domestic spending, which is one of the biggest sticking points by those on the right and some on the left quite frankly, we'll see. One thing's for sure, had McCain taken office, he would have taken similiar action. It may not have had the word "stimulus", but he would have taken similiar action. Probably to the tune of around $500 billion, instead of Obama's Neimen Maurcus taste of $787 billion.

[SIZE=4]If healthcare gets passed this year, no matter what version, I would most definitely chalk that up as a triumph.[/quote][/SIZE]

THis is what I don't get. You would think its a triumph even if its a bad bill? Maybe that explains why he gest a pass on everything he does.

Re: Palin to resign
 

Just an observation I've had the past few elections that I can remember...

From president to president, year to year, who's daily life has truly been altered by the president in office? In my short life, really only the George Bush invasion of Iraq has been something that I can think that's affected the way I think, feel, act. I'm admittedly slightly more liberal even though I would say I fall ALMOST in the middle.

This isn't going to be another one of those arguments against the party system because I really don't know a whole lot about politics. One thing I DO know is that whether you're coming from the Democratic or Republican side it seems that all a lot of us want to do is take jabs at this person or that person when in reality it takes a lot for actual change.

Maybe it's because I've been sheltered in my little town I live in where we haven't seen huge economic problems, but over the years my life has changed very little no matter who has been in office. I really lack a lot of respect for George Bush mainly based on the fact that he was the only president to change my life for the worse. Maybe it was propaganda, maybe it's just me, but his invasion of Iraq makes me a lot more afraid (vigilant could also be used here) and honestly a little bit racist against Middle Easterners.

I could also thank him for the nice sixteen-hundred dollar check that we got in the mail. Maybe that was what led to the collapse of the economy, but pretty much all I've known over the years is that a president has made me a little more racist and has given me sixteen hundred dollars.

I'm a little disjointed here, but it's just something I've noticed since I don't really chime in on the political threads... Does anyone else notice this or am I alone?

Re: Palin to resign
 

You're not alone. No POTUS has ever changed my life for the better or worse regardless of his policies.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;566713]Just an observation I've had the past few elections that I can remember...

From president to president, year to year, who's daily life has truly been altered by the president in office? In my short life, really only the George Bush invasion of Iraq has been something that I can think that's affected the way I think, feel, act. I'm admittedly slightly more liberal even though I would say I fall ALMOST in the middle.

This isn't going to be another one of those arguments against the party system because I really don't know a whole lot about politics. One thing I DO know is that whether you're coming from the Democratic or Republican side it seems that all a lot of us want to do is take jabs at this person or that person when in reality it takes a lot for actual change.

Maybe it's because I've been sheltered in my little town I live in where we haven't seen huge economic problems, but over the years my life has changed very little no matter who has been in office. I really lack a lot of respect for George Bush mainly based on the fact that he was the only president to change my life for the worse. Maybe it was propaganda, maybe it's just me, but his invasion of Iraq makes me a lot more afraid (vigilant could also be used here) and honestly a little bit racist against Middle Easterners.

I could also thank him for the nice sixteen-hundred dollar check that we got in the mail. Maybe that was what led to the collapse of the economy, but pretty much all I've known over the years is that a president has made me a little more racist and has given me sixteen hundred dollars.

I'm a little disjointed here, but it's just something I've noticed since I don't really chime in on the political threads... Does anyone else notice this or am I alone?[/quote]
You don't think 9/11 had anything to do with any of the racist feelings you may have.

Re: Palin to resign
 

You can't lay it at the feet of the POTUS (solely) but these bailouts are going to affect future generations' every day lives. If Obama can get this healthcare legislation passed, it has a real world impact for millions of citizens. I didn't vote for the guy, but that's one hell of an accomplishment in the first 7-9 months in office.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;566732]You can't lay it at the feet of the POTUS (solely) but these bailouts are going to affect future generations' every day lives. If Obama can get this healthcare legislation passed, it has a real world impact for millions of citizens. I didn't vote for the guy, but that's one hell of an accomplishment in the first 7-9 months in office.[/quote]

I can say the same that the goverment has not ever really done anything to drastically change my life style. I'd say the biggest thing would have to be tax increases. If they get the Crap & Trade through and Health Care I don't think any of use will be able to say that again.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=firstdown;566748]I can say the same that the goverment has not ever really done anything to drastically change my life style. I'd say the biggest thing would have to be tax increases. If they get the Crap & Trade through and Health Care I don't think any of use will be able to say that again.[/quote]

After I hit enter I realized that the first part of what I said is not true and I need to recant that statement. Social Security will have a hugh impact on when I can retire and how much money I will have. I know people say don't depend on SS for your retirement which I agree but I'm talking about the money they take and its effect. If they did not take that money from me each month (I pay double as self emp.) I could have used that money to invest and have alot more choices on when I retire and also have a WHOLE LOT MORE MONEY to retire on.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=firstdown;566718]You don't think 9/11 had anything to do with any of the racist feelings you may have.[/quote]

Not really. Had it not been for the invasion of Iraq after the attack I would have assumed it was just a single extremist group. Like I said above, maybe it was me, but still my feelings on George Bush are the same.

Re: Palin to resign
 

Again, I'm not talking about what everyone THINKS will happen, I'm asking who has noticed a TRUE direct effect from president to president, year to year...

Re: Palin to resign
 

Been out of the loop for a couple days on business, but thought I'd weigh in on my opinions for the "how's the Obama Admin doing" issue:

FAILS
1) Economy - Stimulus hasn't been spent, but yet there's talk of another stimulus package. Massive deficit spending, pending tax increases, potential universal health care, potential cap & trade. The Obama Admin's policies are dragging the economy, deepening/extending this recession, and putting a ridiculous national debt burden our our children and grandchildren. We are currently spending $ 100M/per day in INTEREST on the Stimulus package.

2) Cap & Trade = tax increase on ALL Americans, will have inconsequential effect on environment. Recent buried EPA report and Univ of AL study indicate evidence for Global Warming is suspect or flat out wrong.

3) Universal Health Care - this program will degrade health care for 90% of Americans and result in massive tax increases for ALL Americans.

4) Foreign Relations
a) Russia - agreement to reduce nuclear arms. Does anyone really believe the Russians will keep their end of the bargain? How will we verify? Obama appears to be backing away from deploying the missle shield in Poland and the Czech republic, this is a mistake. Addition of Georgia and Ukraine to NATO should be moved forward. He needs to negotiate with Russia from a position of strength, not make concessions.
b) Honduran coup - Zelaya violated the Honduran congress, courts and constitution, trying to extend his rule in a similar fashion as Chavez. The Obama Admin supports returning Zelaya to power. Support for Zelaya is strong from Chavez and his anti-American and communist/authoritarian allies. The Obama Administration should be supporting the current Honduran government.
c) Iran - tepid condemnation of the brutal Iranian crackdown was a major mistake. A new regime in Iran would've made the entire world safer. The Obama Administration should've forcefully condemned the Iranian governments brutal crackdown and violence against its own people. Obama should've given full support to the Iranian people having their voices heard.
d) North Korea - The Obama Administration should've boarded the N. Korean ship that was in violation of interational sanctions. Any missles that are aimed anywhere near the U.S. or our allies and the missles need to be shot down. If China will not reign in N. Korea on its own, the U.S. should destroy the N. Korean missle sites and Japan should be encouraged to go nuclear.

5) Employee Free Choice Act - effectively gives goverment control in the private workplace. Takes away union workers privacy for voting. 74% of union members favor keeping the current system rather than one with less privacy

6) Gov't takeover of auto industry - automakers should've gone into bankruptcy on their own, not through a gov't mandated process.

7) Gov't takeover of banking - This was Bush's fault too. Some short-term stabilization of financial institutions was necessary, the size of TARP and further bail-outs are too much.

WINS
1) Fairness Doctrine - Obama has stated he will not use the Fairness Doctrine to shut down talk radio and opposing views.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;566788]Again, I'm not talking about what everyone THINKS will happen, I'm asking who has noticed a TRUE direct effect from president to president, year to year...[/quote]A lot of what happens to affect our daily lives depends on the Congress + President. Normally there isn't a supermajority and most direct change that we see (other than tax rates) is slowed or tempered by the minority party in Congress. But to your question....

Carter - I was 10-13 while he was in office. I remember sitting in gas lines, my parents being very worried about money, and the Iranian hostage crisis. At the time it was OK to outwardly hate the Iranian terrorists that took our people hostage (there were many action movies made around the terrorist premise, Delta Force w/Chuck Norris was classic) Now, 9/11 happens and it's wrong to profile airline passengers along demographics of the terrorists/murderers. So we have TSA and I get to go through the airport and watch little old ladies get wanded and almost strip searched....but I digress.

Reagan - Reagan's freeing of the hostages turned the mood of the country around, Americans were proud again (shining city on a hill). There was the worry of nuclear war (Terminator movies). Reagan's policies took a while but they turned the economy around and led to good economic times. I was in the military stationed in Japan so I didn't realize the effects directly. The direct effects of his foreign policy weren't felt until the Berlin Wall came down under Bush 1.

Bush 1 - The Gulf War was executed perfectly and although many of us said "go to Baghdad", Bush 1 did the right thing. Other than that, not much affect from Bush that I remember.

Clinton - There was the Lewinsky scandal. The government shutdown was bad for me as I was working for a Fed Gov't contractor at the time. If Clinton would've taken Bin Laden when he was served up we wouldn't have had 9/11 (that's not to say another terrorist wouldn't have created a different attack later).

Bush 2 - TSA (Thousands Standing Around). There are better solutions IMO than this massive agency. Everytime we get airborne we get to be up close and personal with the Fed gov't. The Bush Admin was successful in keeping us safe from addtional attacks though. The Afghanistan and Iraq Wars definitely had an affect on us all. The 2000 election dispute was pretty interesting and kept us glued to the news about hanging/dimpled chads.

Re: Palin to resign
 

Back to Palin. She's a religious lunatic (but hot).

Please, Sarah, don't run for any other public office.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;566801]A lot of what happens to affect our daily lives depends on the Congress + President. Normally there isn't a supermajority and most direct change that we see (other than tax rates) is slowed or tempered by the minority party in Congress. But to your question....

Carter - I was 10-13 while he was in office. I remember sitting in gas lines, my parents being very worried about money, and the Iranian hostage crisis. At the time it was OK to outwardly hate the Iranian terrorists that took our people hostage (there were many action movies made around the terrorist premise, Delta Force w/Chuck Norris was classic) Now, 9/11 happens and it's wrong to profile airline passengers along demographics of the terrorists/murderers. So we have TSA and I get to go through the airport and watch little old ladies get wanded and almost strip searched....but I digress.

Reagan - Reagan's freeing of the hostages turned the mood of the country around, Americans were proud again (shining city on a hill). There was the worry of nuclear war (Terminator movies). Reagan's policies took a while but they [B]turned the economy around[/B] and led to good economic times. I was in the military stationed in Japan so I didn't realize the effects directly. The direct effects of his foreign policy weren't felt until the Berlin Wall came down under Bush 1.

Bush 1 - The Gulf War was [B]executed perfectly[/B] and although many of us said "go to Baghdad", Bush 1 [B]did the right thing[/B]. Other than that, not much affect from Bush that I remember.

Clinton - There was the Lewinsky scandal. The government shutdown was bad for me as I was working for a Fed Gov't contractor at the time. If Clinton would've[B] taken Bin Laden when he was served up[/B] we wouldn't have had 9/11 (that's not to say another terrorist wouldn't have created a different attack later).

Bush 2 - TSA (Thousands Standing Around). There are better solutions IMO than this massive agency. Everytime we get airborne we get to be up close and personal with the Fed gov't. The Bush Admin was successful in [B]keeping us safe[/B] from addtional attacks though. The Afghanistan and Iraq Wars definitely had an affect on us all. The 2000 election dispute was pretty interesting and kept us glued to the news about hanging/dimpled chads.[/quote]
...........

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;566801]A lot of what happens to affect our daily lives depends on the Congress + President. Normally there isn't a supermajority and most direct change that we see (other than tax rates) is slowed or tempered by the minority party in Congress. But to your question....

Carter - I was 10-13 while he was in office. I remember sitting in gas lines, my parents being very worried about money, and the Iranian hostage crisis. At the time it was OK to outwardly hate the Iranian terrorists that took our people hostage (there were many action movies made around the terrorist premise, Delta Force w/Chuck Norris was classic) Now, 9/11 happens and it's wrong to profile airline passengers along demographics of the terrorists/murderers. So we have TSA and I get to go through the airport and watch little old ladies get wanded and almost strip searched....but I digress.

Reagan - Reagan's freeing of the hostages turned the mood of the country around, Americans were proud again (shining city on a hill). There was the worry of nuclear war (Terminator movies). Reagan's policies took a while but they turned the economy around and led to good economic times. I was in the military stationed in Japan so I didn't realize the effects directly. The direct effects of his foreign policy weren't felt until the Berlin Wall came down under Bush 1.

Bush 1 - The Gulf War was executed perfectly and although many of us said "go to Baghdad", Bush 1 did the right thing. Other than that, not much affect from Bush that I remember.

Clinton - There was the Lewinsky scandal. The government shutdown was bad for me as I was working for a Fed Gov't contractor at the time. If Clinton would've taken Bin Laden when he was served up we wouldn't have had 9/11 (that's not to say another terrorist wouldn't have created a different attack later).

Bush 2 - TSA (Thousands Standing Around). There are better solutions IMO than this massive agency. Everytime we get airborne we get to be up close and personal with the Fed gov't. The Bush Admin was successful in keeping us safe from addtional attacks though. The Afghanistan and Iraq Wars definitely had an affect on us all. The 2000 election dispute was pretty interesting and kept us glued to the news about hanging/dimpled chads.[/quote]

Good post. I would also add that events are not isolated to Presidential terms, which seems to be a somewhat common misconception. The Bin Laden situation, you can date that back to at least Carter. Iraq-Iran back to Eisenhower (I think).

Re: Palin to resign
 

Slingin Sammy, that's the type of info I was looking for. Very good stories...

Re: Palin to resign
 

It seems the people on the left have a thing for Palin. I find it funny how they say she is so dumb and they want here out of politics. If I was on the other side I'd want them to keep the so called dumb people around so winning elections would be that much easier.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=saden1;566126]Palin done bagged herself, forgot to gag herself, and managed to toss herself in the river. Have a safe trip down the waterfall Ms. Palin because there's no getting up from this fall.[/quote]

I know but you have to admit that it sucks! I really am going to miss her! I enjoyed laughing at her and her stupid comments. Whenever she would speak I would laugh! And it sucks to see that she is leaving the political field! I mean, who else is going to say, "I have foreign policy experience because Russia is close by". Its so stupid its funny!

I hope they bring her back! They better bring her back! I really want to see her run for President! It would be hilarious!!!!:)

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=Miller101;566874]I know but you have to admit that it sucks! I really am going to miss her! I enjoyed laughing at her and her stupid comments. Whenever she would speak I would laugh! And it sucks to see that she is leaving the political field! I mean, who else is going to say, "I have foreign policy experience because Russia is close by". Its so stupid its funny!

I hope they bring her back! They better bring her back! I really want to see her run for President! It would be hilarious!!!!:)[/quote]

SNL sure was funny during the elections because of her. Tina Fey does a spot on impression of her.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=firstdown;566873]It seems the people on the left have a thing for Palin. I find it funny how they say she is so dumb and they want here out of politics. If I was on the other side I'd want them to keep the so called dumb people around so winning elections would be that much easier.[/quote]

The problem is there's a ton of dumbass people who relate to her and would vote for her because of this.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;566791]Been out of the loop for a couple days on business, but thought I'd weigh in on my opinions for the "how's the Obama Admin doing" issue:

FAILS
1) Economy - Stimulus hasn't been spent, but yet there's talk of another stimulus package. Massive deficit spending, pending tax increases, potential universal health care, potential cap & trade. The Obama Admin's policies are dragging the economy, deepening/extending this recession, and putting a ridiculous national debt burden our our children and grandchildren. We are currently spending $ 100M/per day in INTEREST on the Stimulus package.

2) Cap & Trade = tax increase on ALL Americans, will have inconsequential effect on environment. Recent buried EPA report and Univ of AL study indicate evidence for Global Warming is suspect or flat out wrong.

3) Universal Health Care - this program will degrade health care for 90% of Americans and result in massive tax increases for ALL Americans.

4) Foreign Relations
a) Russia - agreement to reduce nuclear arms. Does anyone really believe the Russians will keep their end of the bargain? How will we verify? Obama appears to be backing away from deploying the missle shield in Poland and the Czech republic, this is a mistake. Addition of Georgia and Ukraine to NATO should be moved forward. He needs to negotiate with Russia from a position of strength, not make concessions.
b) Honduran coup - Zelaya violated the Honduran congress, courts and constitution, trying to extend his rule in a similar fashion as Chavez. The Obama Admin supports returning Zelaya to power. Support for Zelaya is strong from Chavez and his anti-American and communist/authoritarian allies. The Obama Administration should be supporting the current Honduran government.
c) Iran - tepid condemnation of the brutal Iranian crackdown was a major mistake. A new regime in Iran would've made the entire world safer. The Obama Administration should've forcefully condemned the Iranian governments brutal crackdown and violence against its own people. Obama should've given full support to the Iranian people having their voices heard.
d) North Korea - The Obama Administration should've boarded the N. Korean ship that was in violation of interational sanctions. Any missles that are aimed anywhere near the U.S. or our allies and the missles need to be shot down. If China will not reign in N. Korea on its own, the U.S. should destroy the N. Korean missle sites and Japan should be encouraged to go nuclear.

5) Employee Free Choice Act - effectively gives goverment control in the private workplace. Takes away union workers privacy for voting. 74% of union members favor keeping the current system rather than one with less privacy

6) Gov't takeover of auto industry - automakers should've gone into bankruptcy on their own, not through a gov't mandated process.

7) Gov't takeover of banking - This was Bush's fault too. Some short-term stabilization of financial institutions was necessary, the size of TARP and further bail-outs are too much.

WINS
1) Fairness Doctrine - Obama has stated he will not use the Fairness Doctrine to shut down talk radio and opposing views.[/quote]

They should throw the bum out.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;566855]Slingin Sammy, that's the type of info I was looking for. Very good stories...[/quote]I was out in your neck of the woods yesterday visiting a company in Clifton Forge. Very long but relaxing ride on 64 coming home.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;566801]A lot of what happens to affect our daily lives depends on the Congress + President. Normally there isn't a supermajority and most direct change that we see (other than tax rates) is slowed or tempered by the minority party in Congress. But to your question....

Carter - I was 10-13 while he was in office. I remember sitting in gas lines, my parents being very worried about money, and the Iranian hostage crisis. At the time it was OK to outwardly hate the Iranian terrorists that took our people hostage (there were many action movies made around the terrorist premise, Delta Force w/Chuck Norris was classic) Now, 9/11 happens and it's wrong to profile airline passengers along demographics of the terrorists/murderers. So we have TSA and I get to go through the airport and watch little old ladies get wanded and almost strip searched....but I digress.

Reagan - Reagan's freeing of the hostages turned the mood of the country around, Americans were proud again (shining city on a hill). There was the worry of nuclear war (Terminator movies). Reagan's policies took a while but they turned the economy around and led to good economic times. I was in the military stationed in Japan so I didn't realize the effects directly. The direct effects of his foreign policy weren't felt until the Berlin Wall came down under Bush 1.

Bush 1 - The Gulf War was executed perfectly and although many of us said "go to Baghdad", Bush 1 did the right thing. Other than that, not much affect from Bush that I remember.

Clinton - There was the Lewinsky scandal. The government shutdown was bad for me as I was working for a Fed Gov't contractor at the time. If Clinton would've taken Bin Laden when he was served up we wouldn't have had 9/11 (that's not to say another terrorist wouldn't have created a different attack later).

Bush 2 - TSA (Thousands Standing Around). There are better solutions IMO than this massive agency. Everytime we get airborne we get to be up close and personal with the Fed gov't. The Bush Admin was successful in keeping us safe from addtional attacks though. The Afghanistan and Iraq Wars definitely had an affect on us all. The 2000 election dispute was pretty interesting and kept us glued to the news about hanging/dimpled chads.[/quote]

LOL....that sad part is Reagan had a worse budget deficit spending problems than Obama but you seem to see his spending as an asset yet when Obama does it it's going to be the end of us all. Maybe, just maybe "Obama's policies [take] a while but [they'll turn] the economy around and [lead] to good economic times?"

Even worse, Obama gets flack for talking to the Russians in implementing a "do as I do" policy and supporting a democratically elected president who was ousted by a military coup d'etat (I really can't remember the last time a military coup was a good thing) but Reagan with his Iran Contra Affair made America feel good again.

Weak, very weak!

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=saden1;567037]LOL....that sad part is Reagan had a worse budget deficit spending problems than Obama but you seem to see his spending as an asset yet when Obama does it it's going to be the end of us all. Maybe, just maybe "Obama's policies [take] a while but [they'll turn] the economy around and [lead] to good economic times?"

Even worse, Obama gets flack for talking to the Russians in implementing a "do as I do" policy and supporting a democratically elected president who was ousted by a military coup d'etat (I really can't remember the last time a military coup was a good thing) but Reagan with his Iran Contra Affair made America feel good again.

Weak, very weak![/quote]


That Coup was ousting a president that was breaking the election rules/laws and the supreme court and their congress had him removed. He was trying to become a dictator.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;567022]I was out in your neck of the woods yesterday visiting a company in Clifton Forge. Very long but relaxing ride on 64 coming home.[/quote]

Oh yeah? What company out there? I work at W&L... maybe five minutes from the interstate.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=saden1;567037]LOL....that sad part is Reagan had a worse budget deficit spending problems than Obama but you seem to see his spending as an asset yet when Obama does it it's going to be the end of us all. Maybe, just maybe "Obama's policies [take] a while but [they'll turn] the economy around and [lead] to good economic times?"

Even worse, Obama gets flack for talking to the Russians in implementing a "do as I do" policy and supporting a democratically elected president who was ousted by a military coup d'etat (I really can't remember the last time a military coup was a good thing) but Reagan with his Iran Contra Affair made America feel good again.

Weak, very weak![/quote]What's weak my friend, is your analysis here. Reagan cut taxes and allowed the free market to work, Obama is increasing taxes and increasing gov't control/intervention in the economy. This economic strategy does not improve an economy. Instead of spending $ 4 per week on the Mega Millions lottery, I'll spend $ 400 per week and maybe, just maybe, I'll win.

Here's some facts about the economy under Reagan:
-During the Reagan presidency, an average of 1.7 million jobs
per year were created, as opposed to only 1.2 million jobs per
year from 1990-95 (Cato Institute Analysis No.261; Economic
Report of the President, 1996)
-When Reagan took office the unemployment rate was 7.6%. When he
left office the unemployment rate was 5.5% (Cato Institute
Analysis No.261; Economic Report of the President, 1996)
-Charitable contributions increased 57% during the 80s, from $65
billion in 1980 to $100 million in 1989 (American Enterprise,
Sept-Oct ’91)
-The rate of U.S. manufacturing productivity tripled during the
1980s (U.S. Commerce Department)
-The Stock Market rose from 777 to 3,000 points during Reagan’s
presidency, even after the crash of 1987. (Almanac of U.S.
History)
-The national deficit was approx. 2.6% of the U.S. GNP when
Reagan entered office, and only 2.8% of the GNP when he left
(Congressional Budget Office) All while bankrupting and bringing down the Soviet Union.
-Middle class families earning between $20,000-$50,000/year had
a 28% growth in net worth during Reagan’s time in office
(National Review, April 18, 1994)
-Inflation went down during Reagan’s time in office. In 1980 the
CPI (Consumer Price Index) was 13.5, and in 1984 it dropped to
4.3, and eventually to 4.1 by 1988. (Economic Report of the
President, January, 1993)
-In 1981, the beginning of Reagan’s presidency, the top 5% of
wage earners paid 35% of federal income taxes, while the bottom
50% paid 8%. By 1988, the end of Reagan’s presidency, the top
5% paid 46% of the federal taxes, while the bottom 50% paid 6%
(Joint Economic Committee, 1990) A rising tide lifts all boats.

-20 million new jobs were created during the Reagan presidency
(U.S. Statistical Abstract)
Of these 20 million new jobs:
-The average hourly wage was $10/hr.
-46.1% were over $28,048/yr, and another 46.2% were from
$7,012-$28,048/yr, while only 6% were under $7,012/yr.

-During the Carter administration (1977-80), of the new jobs
created, 41,77% were under $7,012, 68.2% were in the $7,012-
$28,048/yr bracket, and 9.9% of the pre-existing jobs in the
$28,048 and up bracket were actually lost (Joint Economic
Committee, based on data from Bureau of Labor Statistics, U.S.
Department of Labor)

I never said Iran/Contra made people fell better, but getting the hostages home was the right thing to do. According to the special prosecutor, Reagan was found not involved in any wrong-doing.
-Lawrence Welsh, special prosecutor of the Iran-Contra scandal,
concluded that Ronald Reagan was not responsible for any
deflection of funds to the Contras or otherwise (D’Souza,
Ronald Reagan…p. 204)

The Russians don't keep their word and only negotiate what's in their best interest, not ours. Putin is an old Cold warrior. They won't reduce their nuclear arsenal and we'll never be able to verify it anyway. Also, as firstdown mentioned, Zelaya was trying to seize more power in violation of the Honduran constitution, courts and congress. The coup was approved by the other branches of the Honduran gov't.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;567062]Oh yeah? What company out there? I work at W&L... maybe five minutes from the interstate.[/quote]
TransCore, the contractor that handles the EZ Pass system for VDOT.

Re: Palin to resign
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;567064]What's weak my friend, is your analysis here. Reagan cut taxes and allowed the free market to work, Obama is increasing taxes and increasing gov't control/intervention in the economy. This economic strategy does not improve an economy. Instead of spending $ 4 per week on the Mega Millions lottery, I'll spend $ 400 per week and maybe, just maybe, I'll win.
[/quote]

You're back to ideology and we done beat that horse to death. One would hope you realize however that you're evaluating Reagan not at a specific time frame (i.e. 1981) but for the entire duration of his presidency (see usage of 80s in your numbers) and that you would offer the same courtesy to this new administration. It is not gentlemanly to label him a failure this early.

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;567064]
Here's some facts about the economy under Reagan:
-During the Reagan presidency, an average of 1.7 million jobs
per year were created, as opposed to only 1.2 million jobs per
year from 1990-95 (Cato Institute Analysis No.261; Economic
Report of the President, 1996)
[/quote]

It would be interesting to compare job creation over the entire period of Clinton's presidency to that of Reagan.

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;567064]
-When Reagan took office the unemployment rate was 7.6%. When he
left office the unemployment rate was 5.5% (Cato Institute
Analysis No.261; Economic Report of the President, 1996)
-Charitable contributions increased 57% during the 80s, from $65
billion in 1980 to $100 million in 1989 (American Enterprise,
Sept-Oct ’91)[/quote]

This information means nothing in the absence to relative comparison (say, charitable giving increase during Carter and Clinton years). Charitable giving for 2008 is estimated to be ~300 billion. How did we perform during the Clinton years?

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;567064]
-The rate of U.S. manufacturing productivity tripled during the
1980s (U.S. Commerce Department)
-The Stock Market rose from 777 to 3,000 points during Reagan’s
presidency, even after the crash of 1987. (Almanac of U.S.
History)
[/quote]

Where are you getting your info from? Can you qualify what you're referencing? Are you talking about the DJI or are you just cutting and pasting info from the inter-web? Assuming you're talking about the DJI, when Reagan came in it was sitting at 867.15 and when he left it was 1,936.34. Contrast this with 3,254.03 when Clinton came in and 11,489.36 when he left (353% increase for Billyboy vs 223% for RR).

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;567064]
-The national deficit was approx. 2.6% of the U.S. GNP when
Reagan entered office, and only 2.8% of the GNP when he left
(Congressional Budget Office) All while bankrupting and bringing down the Soviet Union.
-Middle class families earning between $20,000-$50,000/year had
a 28% growth in net worth during Reagan’s time in office
(National Review, April 18, 1994)
-Inflation went down during Reagan’s time in office. In 1980 the
CPI (Consumer Price Index) was 13.5, and in 1984 it dropped to
4.3, and eventually to 4.1 by 1988. (Economic Report of the
President, January, 1993)
-In 1981, the beginning of Reagan’s presidency, the top 5% of
wage earners paid 35% of federal income taxes, while the bottom
50% paid 8%. By 1988, the end of Reagan’s presidency, the top
5% paid 46% of the federal taxes, while the bottom 50% paid 6%
(Joint Economic Committee, 1990) A rising tide lifts all boats.
[/quote]

It would be nice to see comparison to the Clinton years. All this tells me is what happened during his presidency not why his presidency is remarkable.

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;567064]
-20 million new jobs were created during the Reagan presidency
(U.S. Statistical Abstract)
Of these 20 million new jobs:
-The average hourly wage was $10/hr.
-46.1% were over $28,048/yr, and another 46.2% were from
$7,012-$28,048/yr, while only 6% were under $7,012/yr.

-During the Carter administration (1977-80), of the new jobs
created, 41,77% were under $7,012, 68.2% were in the $7,012-
$28,048/yr bracket, and 9.9% of the pre-existing jobs in the
$28,048 and up bracket were actually lost (Joint Economic
Committee, based on data from Bureau of Labor Statistics, U.S.
Department of Labor)
[/quote]

See if you can spot what's wrong with the above (there is more than one doggy thing in there).

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;567064]
I never said Iran/Contra made people fell better, but getting the hostages home was the right thing to do. According to the special prosecutor, Reagan was found not involved in any wrong-doing.
-Lawrence Welsh, special prosecutor of the Iran-Contra scandal,
concluded that Ronald Reagan was not responsible for any
deflection of funds to the Contras or otherwise (D’Souza,
Ronald Reagan…p. 204)
[/quote]

You don't have to say that, you implied that the means are inconsequential so long as they're home. He might have been absolved of any wrong doing but that doesn't mean shady shit didn't go down. I understand though, he had to do what he had to do the first time around and the second time around. It's kinda sad though you don't give him any flack for signing the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algiers_Accords"]Algiers Accords[/URL] and "capitulating" and "weakening the U.S."

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;567064]
The Russians don't keep their word and only negotiate what's in their best interest, not ours. Putin is an old Cold warrior. They won't reduce their nuclear arsenal and we'll never be able to verify it anyway. Also, as firstdown mentioned, Zelaya was trying to seize more power in violation of the Honduran constitution, courts and congress. The coup was approved by the other branches of the Honduran gov't.[/quote]

Your boy RR helped create Osama Bin Laden but I don't see you mention this information anywhere when you blame Clinton. You're still on that cold war shit, people done moved on brother. That war has been won long ago and you don't need to be spending 50% of your budget on your military (see F-22 Wasteful). I'm no Zelaya fan but the entire world can't be wrong. You'll note that he wasn't impeached but removed based on a secret order from their Supreme Court. There's also the assumption that he is more corrupt than their other elect officials including their supreme court justices.


My father always told me to be honest in my workmanship because not doing so tends yields doggy results.


p.s. When you want to battle for real next time bring out the big guns.