Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=wolfeskins;573893]i gotta disagree with ya a bit on the first part. [B]zorn installing and sticking to the wco is not the problem. he needs the right people to run it effectively. he has the backs, the receivers, the TEs and a few o-lineman. he just needs to add to the o-line and most importantly have the right qb to run it. JC might prove to be that guy, if so then the offense is only a few o-lineman away from having all the pieces in place.[/B]

i agree with you on your comments about the defense.[/quote]

I think that is an intelligent way to look at things.

No offense to Gibbs but the team had a lot of holes when Zorn took over and Zorn has filled a number of those holes so far. I fully expect us to add the missing pieces you described next offseason. Hopefully we'll be "good enough" on the o-line this season.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=Lotus;573896]I think that is an intelligent way to look at things.

No offense to Gibbs but the team had a lot of holes when Zorn took over and Zorn has filled a number of those holes so far. I fully expect us to add the missing pieces you described next offseason. Hopefully we'll be "good enough" on the o-line this season.[/quote]

Yep. They don't have to be great, just good enough. No excuses. Let's roll.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=70Chip;573806]My point is that becuse our offensive line was so dominant in the 1980s, fans (of a certain age I suppose) think the only path to success is to have an offensive line that pitches shutouts. It's an unrealistic expectation. The QB has to pick his teammates up. The Cardinals are one example. I think Roethlisberger does a nice job of buying time. Ditto Romo, though he lacks consistency. It's the only thing McNabb does really well, IMO. As for the Pats, their offensive line is good but you can't tell me that Brady and the receivers aren't the straaw that really stirs that drink.

As for Zorn, his devotion to the outmoded WCO will be his downfall. Campbell can't run it the way Hasselback did and if he wants to survive he needs to get over the notion that you can run the Redskins offense exactly like they did in Seattle.

On the bright side, our defense may be good enough to carry us while they figure out how to score more than ten points.[/quote]

Well, remember we're not running the WCO really because of Zorn. We're running it because of Cerrato. It was VC who said "Hey it worked when is in San Fran. Portis and Santana have each had success with it in the NFL, Campbell succeeded with it in college. I can bring Zorn in to run it as an offensive coordinator..."

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

Kendall would be a great addition right now for so many reasons, most of them obvious reasons.

I still don't know why we don't sign Levi Jones.

Anyone know of any teams that have a decent Olineman that is on the trading block?

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=70Chip;573806]
[I][B]As for Zorn, his devotion to the outmoded WCO will be his downfall. Campbell can't run it the way Hasselback did and if he wants to survive he needs to get over the notion that you can run the Redskins offense exactly like they did in Seattle. [/B][/I][/quote]

I'm of the same opinion. I think Zorn is married to the WCO, do or die. It scared me last season and I have the same feeling about him this year.

I believe Zorn is fully capable of being a successful coach in the NFL, but I wonder if he needs all the right parts in place to make a championship contender. Furthermore, I'm not sold on this system being a good fit for Campbell. But one year can make a helluva difference.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=12thMan;573989]I'm of the same opinion. I think Zorn is married to the WCO, do or die. It scared me last season and I have the same feeling about him this year.

I believe Zorn is fully capable of being a successful coach in the NFL, but I wonder if he needs all the right parts in place to make a championship contender. Furthermore, [B][U]I'm not sold on this system being a good fit for Campbell. [/U][/B]But one year can make a helluva difference.[/quote]


well if the skins don't show much improvement this year, would you rather get rid of zorn or campbell or both?

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=70Chip;573849]I think you give some of these other offensive lines too much credit. However, if you're saying that Cerratto hasn't done his job and should be fired then I agree completely with that.[/quote]Cerrato's biggest failure last year was the Jason Taylor trade without conferring with his defensive coordinator, whom he himself promoted, to see how Jason Taylor would fit.

The Devin Thomas selection was a close second.

Maybe we should lock his ability to touch his second round draft picks. Seems like with moves not involving a second rounder, he's done a pretty good job.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=70Chip;573849][quote=GTripp0012;573828]Well, the point is that no team last year started a line as poor as this:

lt-heyer, lg-kendall, c-rabach, rg-thomas, rt-fabini[/quote]
I think you give some of these other offensive lines too much credit. However, if you're saying that Cerratto hasn't done his job and should be fired then I agree completely with that.[/quote]Well we can test this. Starting with the assumption that the above Redskins line only had one player who could handle his position (assuming the Thomas injury disqualifies him from that designation).

The Bengals started this:

lt-anthony collins, lg-nate livings, c-eric ghiaciuc, rg-bobbie williams, rt-dennis roland

which is probably just as bad as our line above, but they only had that group for one start (compared to two starts for us).

The Seahaws had this:

lt-ray willis, lg-floyd womack, c-steve vallos, rg-mansfield wrotto, rt-kyle williams

which is also pretty bad, considering it's entirely backups. Wrotto is a Rinehart type, Willis = Heyer, and Kyle Williams was a UDFA. But Womack and Vallos are pretty good as far as backup lineman go.

Finally, when the Bills were at their worst, here's who they had to start:

lt-kirk chambers, lg-derrick dockery, c-melvin fowler, rg-jason whittle, rt-langston walker

I guess all of these lines were destined to fail, but I don't believe that just because a bunch of other bad teams had similar problems doesn't mean that we should pass the blame around.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

Assuming Kendall can play right and left guard then I'd like to see him back. I think Thomas is done. The right side of the line looks like it's going to be a total mess.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;573642]Signing OL during training camp is too little too late.

This should have been the main focus during FA and the draft. Kendall coming in during training camp isn't going to make any difference in our overall OL production.


My personal opinion is that it is sad that everyone is placing this enormous expectation on Campbell to step up and be "pivotal" when all that mean squat if he constantly evading defenders every snap. The Skins knew Campbell had to "step up" this year and perform as expected but yet yielded no support in signing/drafting any OL help in the offseason.(Losing Kendall neutralizes signing Dockery)

Campbell possibly could have matured and become seasoned enough to where he could lead a team to the post season...we'll never know because management left him out to dry this season.


If you don't agree with that, then you can at least agree to this. Two years ago receiving was one of our major problems. We draft 3 receivers with our first 3 picks. Last year our biggest liability was obviously our OL. We sign/draft no one to additionally help the OL and then expect Campbell to "step up" and play well in his pivotal year?...yeah right.

Good luck to Campbell but I'm just not seeing everyone's expectation of success with our offense.[/quote]

Well said! I think that most fans think that Jason Campbell should "step up" or this is "A make or break year", but truth be told unless the line play unbelievably we are destined to fail. The success of the Redskins doesn't lie on Jason Campbell's shoulders it falls on the OL. Jason Campbell's future falls on the OL. If they don't play well next year, Jason will be out of here and we will be stuck looking for a new QB.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;574013]Cerrato's biggest failure last year was the Jason Taylor trade without conferring with his defensive coordinator, whom he himself promoted, to see how Jason Taylor would fit.

[B]The Devin Thomas selection was a close second.[/B]

Maybe we should lock his ability to touch his second round draft picks. Seems like with moves not involving a second rounder, he's done a pretty good job.[/quote]

I just don't get this. Devin has has evidently worked his tail off all year long and spent a ton of time w/ his QB developing chemistry/timing. He's a bit injury prone as it appears...however before we throw him into the pile of "wasted picks" lets see what the kid does over say the first 4 or 5 games this year.

...personally I xpect him to be a difference maker on offense this year.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;574013]
Maybe we should lock his ability to touch his second round draft picks. Seems like with moves not involving a second rounder, he's done a pretty good job.[/quote]


Whatever. Vin has the authority to touch his second round draft picks wherever he wants to.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=The Goat;574285]I just don't get this. Devin has has evidently worked his tail off all year long and spent a ton of time w/ his QB developing chemistry/timing. He's a bit injury prone as it appears...however before we throw him into the pile of "wasted picks" lets see what the kid does over say the first 4 or 5 games this year.

...personally I xpect him to be a difference maker on offense this year.[/quote]Devin Thomas is less about Devin and more about Vinny.

He'll probably get way more than 4 or 5 games to prove himself. I don't want to make this an indictment of Devin Thomas the player, because that's not fair to him. If we had taken him in the fifth round instead of the second (hypothetically speaking, I know there's plenty wrong with that assumption), Devin would still be the same player. He'd still have worked just as hard with Jason Campbell to improve himself this offseason, given the team his all, looked like an explosive player at times, etc.

The fact that he was a glaringly obvious overdraft is not his fault, but it goes on Vinny's record. We still might get a player out of him yet, just like Marko Mitchell or Marques Hagans. Kelly too. They all might wind up being NFL receivers.

Right now, Thomas and Kelly are both horrifically bad draft picks, and the only thing that makes Thomas different in my mind is that it was obvious on draft day.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

Let's put in this way: the comparable list of players who have struggled as much or more than Devin Thomas did, and became anything more than a flash in the pan is completely non-existant. If Thomas develops into a solid No. 1 receiving option, he would be the first of his kind, and a true feel good story.

I will not criticize anyone for believing that Devin Thomas is capable of great things, I'm just too much of a realist to take the leap myself.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

Gtripp, I couldn't disagree more. First of all, look at the receiver position in general. Receivers typically have very slow rookie years and slowly start to come out. I'm not a huge Devin Thomas fan, but he was universally regarded as one of, if not the best, receiver to come out that year. He has a lot of the physical tools teams look for in WRs. Calling a 2nd year WR who by all accounts has worked his ass off and has greatly improved himself isn't something I can call a 'horrically bad draft pick.' If we're having this conversation at the end of next year -- then we're on the same page.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=Daseal;574316]Gtripp, I couldn't disagree more. First of all, look at the receiver position in general. Receivers typically have very slow rookie years and slowly start to come out. I'm not a huge Devin Thomas fan, but he was universally regarded as one of, if not the best, receiver to come out that year. He has a lot of the physical tools teams look for in WRs. Calling a 2nd year WR who by all accounts has worked his ass off and has greatly improved himself isn't something I can call a 'horrically bad draft pick.' If we're having this conversation at the end of next year -- then we're on the same page.[/quote]

I agree, way too early to be writing them off.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

^ I don't know why but DT and MK smell of Rod Gardener too me. I agree it is to early to write them off but the forecast looks cloudy at best espically for MK.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=mcarey032;574258]Well said! I think that most fans think that Jason Campbell should "step up" or this is "A make or break year", but truth be told unless the line play unbelievably we are destined to fail. The success of the Redskins doesn't lie on Jason Campbell's shoulders it falls on the OL. Jason Campbell's future falls on the OL. If they don't play well next year, Jason will be out of here and we will be stuck looking for a new QB.[/quote]


Perfectly said along with the Skinny Tee quote as well. The QB always gets the glory or takes the loss on his shoulders which is crap. The O-line has me extremely worried. If Zorn and Campbell go because of this then Vinny needs to be fired as well.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;573596]Depending on how camp shakes out I wouldn't mind seeing Kendall back as a reserve.[/quote]

As a reserve, yes. Starter, no.