Re: What has Obama done well?
 

Trample the Elderly:

I appreciate the kind words.

That video still kills me--I can't believe the president of any sovereign nation--much less the United States of America--would bow before a king. What a disgrace.

Thank you, too, wolfeskins.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;576192]When someone disagrees with you it doesn't mean he's uneducated. Perhaps you're not educated enough to debate his point of view? To imply that someone isn't informed / educated about his own beliefs just makes you sound like a pompous ass.

You cannot be a true American if you bow before a King. How about that?

[yt]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9WlqW6UCeaY&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9WlqW6UCeaY&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/yt][/quote]


Pssst, The Founders bowed as they begged European monarchs for money and weapons. Obama's bow signifies nothing beyond a bow out of respect.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

im with saden. TTE, whats the major problem with Obama showing another leader some respect? is it kind of like someone going to another country and expecting them to speak english? us darn arrogant Americans

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=dmek25;576284]im with saden. TTE, whats the major problem with Obama showing another leader some respect? is it kind of like someone going to another country and expecting them to speak english? us darn arrogant Americans[/quote]

Well, when we go to another country, we bring interpreters, and vice versa when they come here. Bowing to a "king" is not a sign of respect as much as it is submission. It shows Obama's willingness to be submissive to another country and their ways, and in affect say "I'm sorry for america". That's the problem. We don't believe in anarchy here. In fact, we have forced other nations to be democratic. So to bow to a "king" shows lack of respect for this country and our ways. It has nothing to do with arrogance. If the king came here, do you think he would all of sudden be democratic in hs ways while on american soil? I don't think so. So why do we need to conform to their ways? It's not disrespectful to treat him with respect in regards to our culture.

In regards to the positive things Obama has done, some are very good and I wasn't aware. That was the point of this thread.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=dmek25;576233]well at least you didnt say i sucked:)[/quote]

never, your a skins fan. your almost like family. :)
:food-smil

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=dmek25;576284][B]im with saden[/B]. TTE, whats the major problem with Obama showing another leader some respect? is it kind of like someone going to another country and expecting them to speak english? us darn arrogant Americans[/quote]

I am so shocked by this. You, Saden, in agreement???? Is this the first time in Warpath history? AMAZING!

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

Interesting thread...

First I think it's worth mentioning that there are no perfect presidents, no perfect cabinets, and certainly no perfect policies - at least none that a 100% of the people will agree on 100% of the time.

Angry's and Saden's posts, in my opinion, tend to portray a pretty accurate account of his first seven months in office. If nothing else I think he's proven to be an extremely savvy and tactful politician. I'm particularly struck by some of his Republican appointments:

[B]John Hunt[/B] [I](Ambassador to China)[/I]
[B]Ray LaHood[/B] [I](Sec. Transportation)[/I]
[B]Jim Leach[/B] [I]( National Endowment of the Humanities)[/I]
[B]Robert Gates[/B] [I](Sec. of Defense)[/I]
[B]John McHugh[/B] [I](Sec. of Army)[/I]
[B]General Jim Jones[/B] [I](NSA)[/I]

John Hunt and Gen. Jones could easily, and they still may, run for national office one day. Along those same bipartisan lines, in 2007 Obama and Dick Lugar (R) crafted legistlation on nonproliferation law. It wouldn't at all surprise me to learn that Obama and Lugar talk on a regular basis about a host of foreign policy issues. So I find it difficult to swallow the notion that on one hand Obama is some radical leftist trained by terrorists who hates America, yet when I look at the makeup of some of his most trusted advisors and colleagues, they are seasoned men of stature who are anything but radical. It just seems like an unfair standard some here hold him to.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=12thMan;576376]Interesting thread...

First I think it's worth mentioning that there are no perfect presidents, no perfect cabinets, and certainly no perfect policies - at least none that a 100% of the people will agree on 100% of the time.

Angry's and Saden's posts, in my opinion, tend to portray a pretty accurate account of his first seven months in office. If nothing else I think he's proven to be an extremely savvy and tactful politician. I'm particularly struck by some of his Republican appointments:

[B]John Hunt[/B] [I](Ambassador to China)[/I]
[B]Ray LaHood[/B] [I](Sec. Transportation)[/I]
[B]Jim Leach[/B] [I]( National Endowment of the Humanities)[/I]
[B]Robert Gates[/B] [I](Sec. of Defense)[/I]
[B]John McHugh[/B] [I](Sec. of Army)[/I]
[B]General Jim Jones[/B] [I](NSA)[/I]

John Hunt and Gen. Jones could easily, and they still may, run for national office one day. Along those same bipartisan lines, in 2007 Obama and Dick Lugar (R) crafted legistlation on nonproliferation law. It wouldn't at all surprise me to learn that Obama and Lugar talk on a regular basis about a host of foreign policy issues. So I find it difficult to swallow the notion that on one hand Obama is some radical leftist trained by terrorists who hates America, yet when I look at the makeup of some of his most trusted advisors and colleagues, they are seasoned men of stature who are anything but radical. It just seems like an unfair standard some here hold him to.[/quote]


the best trick the devil ever played was making people believe he didn't. exist. :FIREdevil

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=wolfeskins;576389]the best trick the devil ever played was making people believe he didn't. exist. :FIREdevil[/quote]

Seems like you have a lot of faith in the devil.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

I gotta say, having this little dude as his chief of staff is a good move for Obama and his policies, but personally he scares the hell out of me:

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/us/politics/16emanuel.html?_r=1&hp[/url]

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=dmek25;576284]im with saden. TTE, whats the major problem with Obama showing another leader some respect? is it kind of like someone going to another country and expecting them to speak english? us darn arrogant Americans[/quote]

First of all, when you say us darned arrogant Americans you need to speak for yourself.

Second, the President of the United States doesn't bow before anyone, nor does any American. Showing respect means a handshake, for an officer it means a salute. When we were trained in dealing with foreign officials, to include Monarchs, it was very clear, you do not bow before anyone. If a schmuck PFC can understand that, I see no reason why his commander in chief cannot?

Going to another country and expecting them to speak English? Again, speak for yourself.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=GMScud;576422]I gotta say, having this little dude as his chief of staff is a good move for Obama and his policies, but personally he scares the hell out of me:

[URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/us/politics/16emanuel.html?_r=1&hp[/URL][/quote]

Haha...as soon as I read little dude, I knew you were talking about Rahm. I met him once and believe me he is a little dude, but for some reason people don't take him lightly at all. Pretty intense dude.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;576428]First of all, when you say us darned arrogant Americans you need to speak for yourself.

Second, [B]the President of the United States doesn't bow before anyone, nor does any American[/B]. Showing respect means a handshake, for an officer it means a salute. When we were trained in dealing with foreign officials, to include Monarchs, it was very clear, you do not bow before anyone. If a schmuck PFC can understand that, I see no reason why his commander in chief cannot?

Going to another country and expecting them to speak English? Again, speak for yourself.[/quote]

Who says exactly?

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=saden1;576282]Pssst, The Founders bowed as they begged European monarchs for money and weapons. Obama's bow signifies nothing beyond a bow out of respect.[/quote]

So you admit that he bowed? Will that's a start. Leave it to you to denigrate Benjamin Franklin. Those same Founders you speak of were only a Declaration away from being under a Monarch. Most of them, if not all of them were born under a King. If you condone Obama doing it, that means you would do the same. What's your excuse?

I would like to give you the benefit of doubt in that you've probably never been trained to deal with foreign dignitaries, but that is suspect.

I think that the truth is that you're a self-loathing liberal. Your solution is to inflate your own ego and to dismiss or slander those who question your [I]superior[/I] benevolence. Anything less than that would be an admission of your own insecurity.

Make no mistake about it. People around the world and inside this country hate your guts. The reason is this. Progressives and liberals in general, think they are smart enough and have the right to be third parties in the affairs of others. Whether it's health care, bombing Serbs, or telling Arabs and Jews how to run their countries, liberals stick their noses in other people's shit.

No one minds the guy who goes to work, pays his bills, obeys the law, and minds his own business. These are the same folks who have to pay the price for progressive eff ups in blood and in money. I'll give Obama a pass since he's used to kissing his consigliere's ring. You on the other hand . . . .

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;576434]So you admit that he bowed? Will that's a start. Leave it to you to denigrate Benjamin Franklin. Those same Founders you speak of were only a Declaration away from being under a Monarch. Most of them, if not all of them were born under a King. If you condone Obama doing it, that means you would do the same. What's your excuse?

[B]I would like to give you the benefit of doubt in that you've probably never been trained to deal with foreign dignitaries, but that is suspect.
[/B]
I think that the truth is that you're a self-loathing liberal. Your solution is to inflate your own ego and to dismiss or slander those who question your [I]superior[/I] benevolence. Anything less than that would be an admission of your own insecurity.

Make no mistake about it. People around the world and inside this country hate your guts. The reason is this. Progressives and liberals in general, think they are smart enough and have the right to be third parties in the affairs of others. Whether it's health care, bombing Serbs, or telling Arabs and Jews how to run their countries, liberals stick their noses in other people's shit.

No one minds the guy who goes to work, pays his bills, obeys the law, and minds his own business. These are the same folks who have to pay the price for progressive eff ups in blood and in money. I'll give Obama a pass since he's used to kissing his consigliere's ring. You on the other hand . . . .[/quote]

You're hardly in a position to do much of anything let alone give me the benefit of the doubt seeing that you've never been outside your neck of the woods and hardly know anything.

Don't whine to me fella, I don't care for anything you stand for! There are people out there that will though so go grab your poster signs and stand in the street corner and tell them the evilness of the progressive. Maybe then, just maybe, you'll get enough people to take this country back. Good luck.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;576433]Who says exactly?[/quote]

A fella named Pride Ignorance.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

Why can't we all just get along?

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=GMScud;576422]I gotta say, having this little dude as his chief of staff is a good move for Obama and his policies, but personally he scares the hell out of me:

[URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/us/politics/16emanuel.html?_r=1&hp[/URL][/quote]


Interesting read...I too would want him in my corner.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=12thMan;576444]Why can't we all just get along?[/quote]

We do when our interests align (Redskins)?

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;576433]Who says exactly?[/quote]

I don't know of the Civic Code. The race is coming on and I don't feel like looking it up. For military personel it is the (American) Armed Forces Code of Conduct. A military officer or enlisted man who bowed before a King would be brought before NJP at the least.

The President doesn't bow for the same reason that the flag is not lowered, dignity. He isn't just some schmuck off the street. He is [I]the[/I] representative of this Republic. When he bows he does so on our behalf.

(Taken from U.S. Code, Title 10, Chapter 36, Sec. 176. Respect for flag)
No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to [B]any person or thing[/B]. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

Is the Flag more important than the President?

A bow, courtsey, or kow-tow isn't a sign of respect. It is a sign of subservience. Should you choose to do so means you are subservient.

Choose the sign of serfdom if you will, an American should only bow before God. If this doesn't make sense to you, I am disheartened at your understanding of patriotism.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=saden1;576446]We do when our interests align (Redskins)?[/quote]

Amazing how football is the common thread. (pardon the pun)

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;576447]I don't know of the Civic Code. The race is coming on and I don't feel like looking it up. For military personel it is the (American) Armed Forces Code of Conduct. [B]A military officer or enlisted man who bowed before a King would be brought before NJP at the least. [/B]

The President doesn't bow for the same reason that the flag is not lowered, dignity. He isn't just some schmuck off the street. He is [I]the[/I] representative of this Republic. When he bows he does so on our behalf.

(Taken from U.S. Code, Title 10, Chapter 36, Sec. 176. Respect for flag)
No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to [B]any person or thing[/B]. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

[B]Is the Flag more important than the President? [/B]

A bow, courtsey, or kow-tow isn't a sign of respect. It is a sign of subservience. Should you choose to do so means you are subservient.

Choose the sign of serfdom if you will, an American should only bow before God. If this doesn't make sense to you, I am disheartened at your understanding of patriotism.[/quote]

Well, when you have time please let us know where it says what you claim in the Military Code of Conduct. And just to be clear it says nothing of that sort whatsoever.

And yes, the Flag is more important than the president...this is very obvious to even someone like me who believes flag burning in protest is permissible.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

Chiding Obama for bowing to somebody -- anybody? Who cares? You guys are really grasping for straws...

TTE: calling out Saden about ego, when you're the one with so much pride that you'd never bow to another person? Pot meet kettle -- pride = ego.

Stick to the issues people.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;576447](Taken from U.S. Code, Title 10, Chapter 36, Sec. 176. Respect for flag)
No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to [B]any person or thing[/B]. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.[/quote]

Ha! What about when a flag is lowered to half-mast for the passing of a President? Just one of many examples of contradiction within our policies. Good job proving your point.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;576447]I don't know of the Civic Code. The race is coming on and I don't feel like looking it up. For military personel it is the (American) Armed Forces Code of Conduct. A military officer or enlisted man who bowed before a King would be brought before NJP at the least.

The President doesn't bow for the same reason that the flag is not lowered, dignity. He isn't just some schmuck off the street. He is [I]the[/I] representative of this Republic. When he bows he does so on our behalf.

(Taken from U.S. Code, Title 10, Chapter 36, Sec. 176. Respect for flag)
No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to [B]any person or thing[/B]. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

Is the Flag more important than the President?

A bow, courtsey, or kow-tow isn't a sign of respect. It is a sign of subservience. Should you choose to do so means you are subservient.

Choose the sign of serfdom if you will, an American should only bow before God. If this doesn't make sense to you, I am disheartened at your understanding of patriotism.[/quote]

But isn't subvervience a matter of what's perceived to be in one's heart? And I can you tell you from experience, during my enlistment during the Gulf War, we were briefed prior to leaving the ship in foreign ports. Often times we displayed a great deal of deference towards local custom and authorities.

I haven't read the UCMJ or the Code of Ethics in many years, but I'd be interested in seeing where bowing is punishable by law or deemed unpatriotic. Just to be clear, I'm not advocating that we should bow or do anything of the sort, but I would like to see where it's written.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;576428]First of all, when you say us darned arrogant Americans you need to speak for yourself.

Second, the President of the United States doesn't bow before anyone, nor does any American. Showing respect means a handshake, for an officer it means a salute. When we were trained in dealing with foreign officials, to include Monarchs, it was very clear, you do not bow before anyone. If a schmuck PFC can understand that, I see no reason why his commander in chief cannot?

Going to another country and expecting them to speak English? Again, speak for yourself.[/quote]
just from the tone of almost all your posts, you might even be above the most arrogant of Americans

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[url=http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/]PolitiFact | The Obameter: Tracking Barack Obama's Campaign Promises[/url]

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=saden1;576446]We do when our interests align (Redskins)?[/quote]
Well said...............HTTR

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;576450]Chiding Obama for bowing to somebody -- anybody? Who cares? You guys are really grasping for straws...

TTE: calling out Saden about ego, when you're the one with so much pride that you'd never bow to another person? Pot meet kettle -- pride = ego.

Stick to the issues people.[/quote]As far as UCMJ or punishment for a bow, I've never heard that. However the State Department Office of Protocol and Miss Manners know that the President and any U.S. citizen NEVER bow before a monarch or king.

You can say what you want, but in the Middle East the gesture is seen as making the U.S. sub-servient.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;576447]I don't know of the Civic Code. The race is coming on and I don't feel like looking it up. For military personel it is the (American) Armed Forces Code of Conduct. A military officer or enlisted man who bowed before a King would be brought before NJP at the least.

The President doesn't bow for the same reason that the flag is not lowered, dignity. He isn't just some schmuck off the street. He is [I]the[/I] representative of this Republic. When he bows he does so on our behalf.

(Taken from U.S. Code, Title 10, Chapter 36, Sec. 176. Respect for flag)
No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to [B]any person or thing[/B]. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

Is the Flag more important than the President?

A bow, courtsey, or kow-tow isn't a sign of respect. It is a sign of subservience. Should you choose to do so means you are subservient.

Choose the sign of serfdom if you will, an American should only bow before God. If this doesn't make sense to you, I am disheartened at your understanding of patriotism.[/quote]

From what I understand it really depends on the culture. Bowing in many cultures is a sign or respect or even that of an apology. In some cultures yes it is a sign of subservience. The key is to know your audience.

On a related note, was W out of line when he held hands and touched cheeks with a Saudi prince?

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

On this note, what would the expectation be for a Catholic president meeting with the Pope? From a starting point, such a meeting would be a meeting of two heads of state (U.S. and Vatican). But, I suppose theoretically, there would be a level of meaning for that particular U.S. president that would transcend politics, and isn't it common for Catholics meeting the Pope to make a sort of gesture? (Kneeling maybe? I honestly don't know.) If it is common for a Catholic to do such a thing, and a president happened to be Catholic and did it, but claimed that it was in his/her "status" as a Catholic, how would people come down on that?

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=dmek25;576461]just from the tone of almost all your posts, you might even be above the most arrogant of Americans[/quote]

I will disagree with you here...he has a tone of someone that is disheartened by what he sees, and now what he is hearing to his responses. He is 100% right about how the president of the USA and commander in chief should act. For anyone that has been in the military, this is pretty obvious. To call him an arrogant american (above the most arrogant to be exact) is a gross misinterpretation. He's offended, as should he should be. If you understood what he understands, you would be too.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;576482]As far as UCMJ or punishment for a bow, I've never heard that. [B][U]However the State Department Office of Protocol and Miss Manners know that the President and any U.S. citizen NEVER bow before a monarch or king.[/U][/B]

You can say what you want, but in the Middle East the gesture is seen as making the U.S. sub-servient.[/quote]


[B][U]thats right[/U][/B]. obama knew what he was doing. he had been going all around, appoligizing(sp) for america. obama hates america, this is why he does such things. remember folks, obama is not an american. he was not born in this country.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

one thing Obama has done very well, is to claim crisis at every political opportunity. This is a known political tactic, and not necessarily a slam. By focusing on the "current crisis"(real or created) he can push his agenda through, and by using items that he knows are hot button, he can get momentum on his side. I do think this sets him up for trouble if a true crisis raises up.

Overall, he has pushed his agenda about as well as a President with the majority in both houses could. I am amazed he hasn't gotten his way with health care, but I am not complaining either.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=wolfeskins;576518][B][U]thats right[/U][/B]. obama knew what he was doing. he had been going all around, appoligizing(sp) for america. obama hates america, this is why he does such things.[/quote]

While I tend to agree with you here, although not nearly as matter of fact or blatent as you put it, what you have next is incorrect:

[quote] remember folks, obama is not an american. he was not born in this country.[/quote]

Read this:
[url=http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp]snopes.com: Is Barack Obama a natural-born citizen of the U.S.?[/url]

Hey, I can understand not wanting him to be american, therefore not eligible for president, but he was born in Hawaii...read that entire article, it will explain it. I thought we went over this like a year ago?
That sounds like Gore..."He didn't win the electoral votes!" Well, like it or not, Bush still won fair and square, as did obama.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=jsarno;576510]I will disagree with you here...he has a tone of someone that is disheartened by what he sees, and now what he is hearing to his responses. He is 100% right about how the president of the USA and commander in chief should act. For anyone that has been in the military, this is pretty obvious. To call him an arrogant american (above the most arrogant to be exact) is a gross misinterpretation. He's offended, as should he should be. If you understood what he understands, you would be too.[/quote]

What? For someone in the military?? I was in the military too. Loved my country then, love it now. And I still disagree with that point of view. Respectfully.

Why is it that some on the right feel as though they have a monoply on patriotism?

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=jsarno;576510]I will disagree with you here...he has a tone of someone that is disheartened by what he sees, and now what he is hearing to his responses. He is 100% right about how the president of the USA and commander in chief should act. [B]For anyone that has been in the military[/B], this is pretty obvious. To call him an arrogant american (above the most arrogant to be exact) is a gross misinterpretation. He's offended, as should he should be. [B]If you understood what he understands[/B], you would be too.[/quote]
i hear you. but it is still all opinion. and sorry that the only people that really understand respect are military personnel, either past or present.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=12thMan;576531]What? For someone in the military?? I was in the military too. Loved my country then, love it now. And I still disagree with that point of view. Respectfully.

[B]Why is it that some on the right feel as though they have a monoply on patriotism[/B]?[/quote]
do you remember someone saying that if you don't agree with the war, your unpatriotic? what a joke

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;576482]As far as UCMJ or punishment for a bow, I've never heard that. [B]However the State Department Office of Protocol and Miss Manners know that the President and any U.S. citizen NEVER bow before a monarch or king.[/B]

[B]You can say what you want, but in the Middle East the gesture is seen as making the U.S. sub-servient.[/B][/quote]

Is there some sort of a manual available from the office of protocol for us ignorant citizens that tells us not to bow and whatnot? Or is this an unwritten protocol?

Subservient? Due to a bow by the president? If they want to think us subservient all they need to do is look at their oil fields knowing that we will do anything to get at it and protect it. You know, just maybe they're not all homogeneous in thought and some will think "mashallah, what a respectful man?"

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=12thMan;576531]Why is it that some on the right feel as though they have a monoply on patriotism?[/quote]

I think it's because they really don't understand what patriotism is all about, and so they take the smallest of trivialities and blow them up into the biggest issues. Because, if the President bows to anyone, he must hate America. No wonder these people idolized Bush -- he walked around like the toughest shit on the block, and these people just ate it up.