Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

I find this interesting:
[quote]President Bush expanded the federal budget by a historic $700 billion through 2008. President Obama would add another $1 trillion.
President Bush began a string of expensive finan*cial bailouts. President Obama is accelerating that course.
President Bush created a Medicare drug entitle*ment that will cost an estimated $800 billion in its first decade. President Obama has proposed a $634 billion down payment on a new govern*ment health care fund.
President Bush increased federal education spending 58 percent faster than inflation. Presi*dent Obama would double it.
President Bush became the first President to spend 3 percent of GDP on federal antipoverty programs. President Obama has already in*creased this spending by 20 percent.
President Bush tilted the income tax burden more toward upper-income taxpayers. President Obama would continue that trend.

President Bush presided over a $2.5 trillion increase in the public debt through 2008. Setting aside 2009 (for which Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for an additional $2.6 trillion in public debt), President Obama’s budget would add $4.9 trillion in public debt from the beginning of 2010 through 2016. [/quote]

So to simplify...Bush bad. Obama, FAR WORSE.

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[quote=Schneed10;577533]Props to you for reconsidering your stance, not everyone is willing to do that. There are definitely things we can do to reduce spending but none of them are things everyone in the nation will agree on. They are hard decisions but ones we have to make:

- Increase the Medicare and Social Security eligibility ages.

- Privatize social security so that we can earn a better return on our investments.

- Cut Medicare and/or social security benefits.

- Trim defense spending.

- Cut welfare benefits.

- Trim the prison system via much shorter sentences allowing for prison closures and layoffs.

- Ensure one-time spending tied to Obama's economic recovery act does not repeat itself.

And lots others but those are the biggies.[/quote]

Heck I bet if we just cut back on all the waistful projects we could save a ton of money. Let the states bitch all they want but the federal goverment has to down size and stop taking all of our tax money and passing it around to who ever yells the loudest.

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[quote=angry;577501]ok i have done some research. I must say that i was not fully aware of the sitaution. I am not saying that i am an expert either. You guys have a valid point. Calling me a retard and intellectually lazy may not have been the preferred route, but it got my attention.

Anyway, as serious as the deficit is, it is almost foolish to think that anything can be done about it without serious cuts in defense spending and ss/healthcare programs.

Going back to my original post which i ignorantly blurted out, i would like to retract it. I ask this question though "what can really be done, and how much of that can we really do?" we cannot fly a jumbo jet from the toilet seat in the back of the plane.[/quote]
nice work......httr

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[quote=firstdown;577574]Heck I bet if we just cut back on all the waistful projects we could save a ton of money. Let the states bitch all they want but the federal goverment has to down size and stop taking all of our tax money and passing it around to who ever yells the loudest.[/quote]

How about start with the 350bil or so we WASTE on illegal immigrants???

I've said it before and I'll say it again...if the gov bailed out HOMEOWNERS instead of businesses, our country would have had an instant rebound! Don't think for one second there would not have been some other company willing to pick up where GM (for instance) left off. If you can't run your company to profit, you need to shut down, not be bailed out.

We have a TON of wasteful projects, not sure any of them are going to be cut back, or cut out.

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I have not really heard.......much of ANY politico want to get a discussion going in the immigration arena..........not good

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[quote=jsarno;577622]I've said it before and I'll say it again...if the gov bailed out HOMEOWNERS instead of businesses, our country would have had an instant rebound! Don't think for one second there would not have been some other company willing to pick up where GM (for instance) left off. If you can't run your company to profit, you need to shut down, not be bailed out.[/quote]

I pretty much agree when it comes to bailing out auto companies, but I disagree with respect to TARP. Had the government let all the banks fail, new ones would not have sprouted up in their place overnight. We were facing a massive, massive meltdown that even ardent free marketeers (e.g., Paulson) agreed necessitated the stimulus spending and investments.

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[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;577670]I pretty much agree when it comes to bailing out auto companies, but I disagree with respect to TARP. Had the government let all the banks fail, new ones would not have sprouted up in their place overnight. We were facing a massive, massive meltdown that even ardent free marketeers (e.g., Paulson) agreed necessitated the stimulus spending and investments.[/quote]

But not ALL banks needed bailouts...there would be several in line that would have benefited from those banks going under. If ALL the banks would fail, I would agree with you, but it wasn't ALL banks. There are still plenty of banks that have a quality way of doing business.

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[URL="http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/08/25/john-lott-trillion-deficit-obama/"]The Trouble With Trillions - FOXNews.com[/URL]

Not trying to restart the debate here, just found this funny. Wasn't the title of the article a Star Trek episode....LOL (yes it's late in the day and I know it was Tribbles).

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SB33 -

You're an idiot.

You're an idiot.

You're an idiot.

You're an idiot.

You're an idiot.

You're an idiot.

That should get us through page 10.

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[quote=JoeRedskin;579835]SB33 -

You're an idiot.

You're an idiot.

You're an idiot.

You're an idiot.

You're an idiot.

You're an idiot.

That should get us through page 10.[/quote]:benched: LOL LOL

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[quote=jsarno;577568]So to simplify...Bush bad. Obama, FAR WORSE.[/quote]

LOL. This is basically how all of your posts have been since Obama took office. You should just put it in your sig and save some time.

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oOoOOOOoooOOoOoohhh...quite scary!

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SS33 you get on me because of a link to the new york times. but then post a link from fox news. whats the difference?

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[quote=dmek25;579975]SS33 you get on me because of a link to the new york times. but then post a link from fox news. whats the difference?[/quote]I was really just posting this because I thought the name of the article was funny and it reminded me of the Star Trek episode which was also funny. I didn't even read the article. We've been 'round & 'round about this already.

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are you a trekkie?

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[quote=dmek25;580025]are you a trekkie?[/quote]No, but I remember when I was growing up and coming home from school and watching Star Trek re-runs on either channel 5 or 20 up in the DC area. I always liked the Tribble episode.

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Check out this scary clock:

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHO1JTNPPOU&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - The Corpus Clock & Chronophage[/url]

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Well, the deficit wouldn't be as bad if we weren't borrowing money from the Chinese to pay Halliburton. It's not like the troops saw any increase in pay when the previous administration spent 1 billion dollars a day on the war in Iraq. Plus, SS please stop misreading the deficit numbers. Bush didn't count the war toward the deficit and Obama is counting the War toward deficit. In reality not as big a difference. Nobody's falling for that. The agenda goes forward, if you don't like then start a revolution.

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Weren't we at 11T in Aug 2009?

[url=http://www.usdebtclock.org/]U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time[/url]

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[quote=firstdown;577057]Actually I have seen a dept clock before just not one that breaks it out in details like this.[/quote]
[IMG]http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2008/0810/debt_clock_1014.jpg[/IMG]

[url=http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1850269,00.html]The Times Square Debt Clock - TIME[/url]

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How much money could be saved if we could stop fighting wars that have no stop date? And don't tell me they are all in the interest of "stopping terrorism". Afghanistan, definatley, like 10 years ago. Iraq, not so much. That was bush's brain child. Now there is talk of going up against China. That's a bad idea. Really bad. They'd kick our bloody asses. What if they ever do want to collect the money we owe them? That's an even worse scenario.

Their infantry alone is one million men, not counting the other branches of their military. And their kung fu skills are surperior.

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[quote=SolidSnake84;703489]How much money could be saved if we could stop fighting wars that have no stop date? And don't tell me they are all in the interest of "stopping terrorism". Afghanistan, definatley, like 10 years ago. Iraq, not so much. That was bush's brain child. Now there is talk of going up against China. That's a bad idea. Really bad. They'd kick our bloody asses. What if they ever do want to collect the money we owe them? That's an even worse scenario.

Their infantry alone is one million men, not counting the other branches of their military. And their kung fu skills are surperior.[/quote]
A couple things:
who's talking about war with China. If that happened it would be because China declared war first, or demanded full debt repayment, or some crazy thing. The current war talk is with N. Korea, who even China is having a hard time supporting publicly.

second one million men are not as critical when they can't effectively transport them for a ground war in the US.

third can you say neutron bomb. I always have thought a little thinning of the herd - so to say - wasn't a bad idea. (ok that's kidding by the way)

the deficit/debt is not solved by a one sided answer. All sides need to agree to trim/cut/in some cases slash, both defense and the welfare state. but of course that won't happen so you might as well ignore it and live abundantly until the inevitable crash.

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It looks like we are set to invade Korea very soon. My question is where will the troops come from? The draft? 80% of the military is in Iraq and Afghanistan, and we all know we are to pussy to actually use a nuke.

Seriously guys, how will the US find the troops for yet ANOTHER war....

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[quote=SolidSnake84;703508]It looks like we are set to invade Korea very soon. My question is where will the troops come from? The draft? 80% of the military is in Iraq and Afghanistan, and we all know we are to pussy to actually use a nuke.

Seriously guys, how will the US find the troops for yet ANOTHER war....[/quote]

It looks like a Koreran War is coming, but is North Korea still a valid force? Their nukes barely work. I don't think Korea as a whole wants a war. It would only destroy their potential super power status that will come with their eventual reunion. But most reunions takes war to accomplish.

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[quote=SolidSnake84;703508]It looks like we are set to invade Korea very soon. My question is where will the troops come from? The draft? 80% of the military is in Iraq and Afghanistan, and we all know we are to pussy to actually use a nuke.

Seriously guys, how will the US find the troops for yet ANOTHER war....[/quote]

I would be AMAZED if a 2nd Korean War didn't go very much like the first Iraq war. 10 days of strategic bombing, followed by SKorean troops moving into clean up. As long as we gave proper deference to China at this point I don't think they really would step up in defense.

and JTF, I hope you were joking about a Korean superpower, China and Japan would never agree to that.

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[quote=SolidSnake84;703508]It looks like we are set to invade Korea very soon. My question is where will the troops come from? The draft? 80% of the military is in Iraq and Afghanistan, and we all know we are to pussy to actually use a nuke.

Seriously guys, how will the US find the troops for yet ANOTHER war....[/quote]

It's way premature to say there will be another war in Korea, let alone to say that we will invade North Korea.

The North has a habit of threatening rhetoric, but it seems to equate to a big bark, but unwillingness to bite. It appears that the North was responsible for sinking that South Korean naval vessel, and of course the South needs to go through preparations to defend itself, but it certainly does not have the appetite to invade the North. The South is only interested in defending itself.

As for the United States, we're sworn to defend South Korea under all circumstances, which makes sense. But that doesn't mean we would ever invade North Korea. Strategically, there were reasons to invade Afghanistan because of the terrorist presence & Taliban, you had to root them out. Once you do that, you get into all kinds of issues when it comes to setting up sustainable government.

That's not our goal with N Korea. They're unstable, but like Cold War Russia, they'll still do what's in their own best interests, and that includes not pissing us off. If push came to shove, our strategy would not include invading N Korea. It would involve trade embargoes, and bombardments from a distance, by sea and by air. We wouldn't put troops on the ground in the same manner, except for the purposes of defending the South.

But it will not come to that. The North is just popping off at the mouth. As time passes here, each side is just watching the other. As long as nobody starts nothin, won't be nothin. And nobody is interested in a drawn out regional conflict. It'll simmer down.

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As for the North's military might, they may be in decline from a technological standpoint, but that army is 1 million strong. They could do significant damage to the south if they chose an all-out war approach. It would take quite a commitment from the US to stop such an advance in defense of the South.

But the North knows doing something like that would lead to the decimation of its military. And it's economy can't support such a loss at this point. They'll stand down.

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[quote=Schneed10;703522]It's way premature to say there will be another war in Korea, let alone to say that we will invade North Korea.

The North has a habit of threatening rhetoric, but it seems to equate to a big bark, but unwillingness to bite. It appears that the North was responsible for sinking that South Korean naval vessel, and of course the South needs to go through preparations to defend itself, but it certainly does not have the appetite to invade the North. The South is only interested in defending itself.

As for the United States, we're sworn to defend South Korea under all circumstances, which makes sense. But that doesn't mean we would ever invade North Korea. Strategically, there were reasons to invade Afghanistan because of the terrorist presence & Taliban, you had to root them out. Once you do that, you get into all kinds of issues when it comes to setting up sustainable government.

That's not our goal with N Korea. They're unstable, but like Cold War Russia, they'll still do what's in their own best interests, and that includes not pissing us off. If push came to shove, our strategy would not include invading N Korea. It would involve trade embargoes, and bombardments from a distance, by sea and by air. We wouldn't put troops on the ground in the same manner, except for the purposes of defending the South.

But it will not come to that. The North is just popping off at the mouth. As time passes here, each side is just watching the other. As long as nobody starts nothin, won't be nothin. And nobody is interested in a drawn out regional conflict. It'll simmer down.[/quote]

good post

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[quote=SolidSnake84;703508]It looks like we are set to invade Korea very soon. My question is where will the troops come from? The draft? 80% of the military is in Iraq and Afghanistan, and we all know we are to pussy to actually use a nuke.

Seriously guys, how will the US find the troops for yet ANOTHER war....[/quote]As the mafia knew very well, wars are bad for business. You can be pretty confident China will have none of this. They may be using NK to probe and push-buttons to see how the South and U.S. will respond to provocations, but they don't want a full-on war.

Worst case, NK strikes at the South, in addition to the South's military we have over 30K military personnel already stationed in SK, and another 30K in Japan. The carrier George Washington also homeports in Japan, I believe. We have several F16 units at Kunsan, Osan and Misawa AB, Japan. We also have A-10s in SK. It would be a bloodbath for NK if they attacked SK.

The Chinese would then stabilize the North with a puppet gov't that would be much "better for business".

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If the North ever did decide to strike, they better do it with a full strength invasion, and in that case it would be fairly bloody before it was over. Otherwise yes I believe you are right Sammy, we would do airstrikes to cut off the army, and then, again, like in Kuwait, I would be willing to bet they would lay down arms before too long. That is a hopeful belief. Then China would be instrumental in setting up a new peace.

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It always strikes me funny when people say "North Korea has a one million man army they could totally overwhelm South Korea!" This ain't Star Craft. You can't simply rush the enemy base with a bunch of zerglings and expect anything short of outright massacre.

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[quote=724Skinsfan;703575]It always strikes me funny when people say "North Korea has a one million man army they could totally overwhelm South Korea!" This ain't Star Craft. You can't simply rush the enemy base with a bunch of zerglings and expect anything short of outright massacre.[/quote]

Nice! I for one am pumped for Starcraft II, I can't take any more delays. Now set for July 27th.

But on the serious, you're right, you still have to take them seriously, you can't just dismiss it. They have significant technology on their side. Nothing that we can't handle and gain a strategic advantage, but it would take a bigger commitment than we currently have in the region.

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We can't just "joy stick" a couple of Drones over there to overpower the evil Khan and his hoards? I guess we're just NOT being all we can be?

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The most wonderful thing is that we are fully equipped with weapons of mass destruction and devastation, but that we will never, ever use them, even in combat.

I would like to see North Korea nuked by the United States, but it will never happen.

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Back on topic, this is a good read:

[url=http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/government/world-broke/?test=latestnews]IS THE WORLD BROKE? Entitlements, Spending May Spell Doom - FOXBusiness.com[/url]

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Agreed....good stuff