Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;578764]It doesn't bother you that you have to search through game tape to find some positives? You don't have to do that for Peyton, Romo or Cutler this week.

I am not selling anything. 1 for 7 including two bad deep throws sucks. This is pretty simple and does not need a whole lot of analysis. A performance like this needs to be the exception this year or he is gone and no one can say that he didn't get a fair chance. I am happy that it looks like the guys behind him are legit (although Collins already proved that two seasons ago).[/quote]I'm pretty sure preseason performances are the exception, not the rule.

I'm saying it's a stretch to draw [U]any[/U] conclusion from a one quarter performance in the preseason, and that consequently, I decided not to break down Campbell's mechanics on film. Don't forget that I've broken him down for a season and a half prior to this, he's not a green as grass rookie. If his experience is reason to conclude suckiness from seven passes, I want no part of this discussion.

Had Campbell been 6 for 7 for 115 yards, I would of politely pointed out he did well and moved on. It's not worth harping on because he's got to do it over 35-40 passes, no quarterback is graded by what the do in the first quarter of any game. In this respect, Jason Campbell has nothing to prove to anyone during the preseason (which is not to say he shouldn't be getting more reps).

Collins is showing me something, but there will not be a benefit to playing him ahead of Campbell. There's not one thing he does better than Campbell, and he's 38, so it's not like we have a viable potential 2010 starter in him. His presence on the roster is injury-related at best.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;578774]Collins took us to the playoffs. things have changed since then with the offenses but he is capable. Brennan threw a pick but was 3-5 with 1 throw away so other than a bad pass he did ok. Chase did very well, nice runs and a good lob to Marko.[/quote]

You could take away bad passes from JC and Collins and say they didn't do bad. All three "vet" QBs haven't look good in preseason, so you don't know if Collins is capable in this offense. JC, Collins, and CB haven't been able to move the offense through "passing".

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;578764]It doesn't bother you that you have to search through game tape to find some positives? You don't have to do that for Peyton, Romo or Cutler this week.

I am not selling anything. 1 for 7 including two bad deep throws sucks. This is pretty simple and does not need a whole lot of analysis. A performance like this needs to be the exception this year or he is gone and no one can say that he didn't get a fair chance. I am happy that it looks like the guys behind him are legit (although Collins already proved that two seasons ago).[/quote]

As poorly as JC seemed to play last night and as unimpressive as he was last week he is still, far and away, the best QB option on the roster. I wish Zorn had given him the entire half last week and at least that this week to get him in a rhythm. Collins is a backup and he should be a backup. He may have the head of a top level starter but he has the arm of a bullpen coach. Colt '09 is a bad version of Colt '08 and he hasn't shown the same ability to shred substitute teachers and UPS drivers like he did last year. Chase has shown just enough to secure a bust in the SS Hall of Fame but is still 5'10.

I'll be looking forward to a jump next week in JC's performance and production.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Yeah in the first game CB wasnt anything to write home about but afterwards even Zorn said that the protection failed him so given that id have to say that he has the edge for the spot over Chase. I think unless CB just goes out there and stinks it up then he is safe.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=redskinsgirl;578769]How are they legit? Collins and Brennan didn't score in either preseason games. They didn't even get the team into field goal position. JC, Collins, or Brennan didn't look great in the last two games. Brennan may lose his position to Daniels if he puts up another bad performance and Daniels puts up another good one. It looks like if JC fails the skins will be drafting a QB in 2010.[/quote]


Ummmm.... Collins moved them into field goal range against the Ravens and then Davis fumbled. I like his decision making and he is throwing accurate balls. Thomas let him down and Hackett should have made that play too.

Pinapple Judas marched them down to the 11 before the pick. I thought he put together a nice drive up to that point. He also had a long first down play against Baltimore before it became 2 mississippi.

Are you watching the games?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Schneed10;578763]The fact that we ran effectively on the Steelers' starters is a much better sign than Campbell's 1-7 is a bad one. We're still a Clinton-Portis-first team. We need to be able to go to our bread and butter more than anything, and that looked good.

If we want to do damage in the playoffs the passing game has to step up, but I think we'll get there.[/quote]

Good point, the strong suit of the offense is the run blocking and Portis getting consistent positive yards...that was reassuring.

I did like the attempts down the field, that first one Kelly had beat coverage, JC waited a little late to let it go...next week will be crucial to see progress in the offense. We will get a chance to see if offense can get some rhythm. 3 points for the starting offense in two preseason games does not show the kinda growth I expect at this point.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;578779]Ummmm.... Collins moved them into field goal range against the Ravens and then Davis fumbled. I like his decision making and he is throwing accurate balls. Thomas let him down and Hackett should have made that play too.

Pinapple Judas marched them down to the 11 before the pick. I thought he put together a nice drive up to that point. He also had a long first down play against Baltimore before it became 2 mississippi.

Are you watching the games?[/quote]

Yes I have been watching the games and none of the QBs(with the exception of Daniel) have looked good.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=redskinsgirl;578781]Yes I have been watching the games and none of the QBs(with the exception of Daniel) have looked good.[/quote]Which would imply that the problem is not the QBs (or the offensive line), but who would that leave?

Oh, right.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;578775]I'm pretty sure preseason performances are the exception, not the rule.

I'm saying it's a stretch to draw [U]any[/U] conclusion from a one quarter performance in the preseason, and that consequently, I decided not to break down Campbell's mechanics on film. Don't forget that I've broken him down for a season and a half prior to this, he's not a green as grass rookie. If his experience is reason to conclude suckiness from seven passes, I want no part of this discussion.

Had Campbell been 6 for 7 for 115 yards, I would of politely pointed out he did well and moved on. It's not worth harping on because he's got to do it over 35-40 passes, no quarterback is graded by what the do in the first quarter of any game. In this respect, Jason Campbell has nothing to prove to anyone during the preseason (which is not to say he shouldn't be getting more reps).

Collins is showing me something, but there will not be a benefit to playing him ahead of Campbell. There's not one thing he does better than Campbell, and he's 38, so it's not like we have a viable potential 2010 starter in him. His presence on the roster is injury-related at best.[/quote]

I know that Campbell does everything mechanically better and if you look at my first post, I am not calling for a QB change. You may feel that you are above this discussion because of your film study but the bottom line is that he needs to produce. The second half of last year he had poor production and the first two games of the pre-season, he has had poor production. I am getting tired of excuses. Btw, has he ever been 6-7 for 115 against a good defense?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=redskinsgirl;578781]Yes I have been watching the games and none of the QBs(with the exception of Daniel) have looked good.[/quote]

Ok, well that is a statement based on your opinion and I am not going to try and change your opinion. Your "facts" in the last post were flat out wrong.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;578783]I know that Campbell does everything mechanically better and if you look at my first post, I am not calling for a QB change. You may feel that you are above this discussion because of your film study but the bottom line is that he needs to produce. The second half of last year he had poor production and the first two games of the pre-season, he has had poor production. I am getting tired of excuses. Btw, has he ever been 6-7 for 115 against a good defense?[/quote]I don't feel like I'm above this discussion, but if it devolves into a stupid comparison of what other quarterbacks did in their meaningless quarter of work, I have nothing of substance to add to a substanceless argument.

And yes, he has had 6-7, 100 yd stretches before against defenses like the Giants and Cowboys. As has Todd Collins. It's not a special accomplishment.

The problem is that Jason Campbell is being put on a "needs to produce" pedistal. Duh. So does everyone else. If other people are not producing, his job becomes more difficult. London Fletcher is under a ton of pressure to produce this year. Albert Haynesworth is probably under twice as much pressure as Fletcher. Both of them were involved on more plays yesterday than Campbell. And yet, not one thought about them?

There's other things to football besides harping on a meaningless sample performance by the QB. You and I know that. A few others do not seem to.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Remember people wanted Gus and where is he now, he's not with us and he's a Journey man. JC is the answer. I think Chase will be good but don't rush him.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;578784]Ok, well that is a statement based on your opinion and I am not going to try and change your opinion. Your "facts" in the last post were flat out wrong.[/quote]

What QB (besides Daniel) has scored?? All three QBs offense has stalled in the preseason games especially in the redzone.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=redskinsgirl;578787]What QB (besides Daniel) has scored?? All three QBs offense has stalled in the preseason games [B]especially in the redzone.[/quote][/B]


I thought you just said that none of them got us in FG range?? which is it?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;578760]I call bullshit on you. You were on here last week claiming that Campbell needed to throw it deep to prove a point. THEN WE DID THAT and now you are questioning Zorn's playcalling.

Basically, you have no idea why you hate our offense, and just want change for the sake of change. Why torture yourself any longer. You won't be able to rationalize to yourself what's happening if things are working, so why watch?

Just admit it, you're watching in the hope that Campbell fails, and then you can say you had it right, and that we needed a new QB. If Zorn fails along the way, then he's just collateral damage in your eyes.[/quote]

Woah, take it easy fella. Didn't mean to strike a nerve. Take a deep breath and have a few sips of your Sunday morning coffee. The one play I criticized last week was the pass to Randle El in traffic when DT was in single coverage down the sideline on a pattern that wasn't all that deep. My point was that he had options on that play and went for the short pass vs. a mid to long pass that for most QBs is just as high a percentage play.

I don't think it's radical to submit that Zorn MAY NOT be that good of a coach, since he's got nothing in his past he can hang his hat on, except for the 6-2 start that could have been as much smoke and mirrors as anything else.

The only thing I'll admint is that you're a tool.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Lotus;578707]I liked the deep pass play calls. They created a vertical aspect for the offense even though they were incomplete. We've been so conservative for so long, I think it is good to do things to keep safeties from cheating towards the line of scrimmage.[/quote]

I agree I loved seeing them at least trying to throw deep. Campbell seriously missed a TD on the first one, the throw was way off. Kelly had the step on the defense, he just put it where they could still recover and make the play. I agree though keeping a few deep plays in the playcalling will loosen everything up closer to the line of scrimmage, even if they arent completed.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=44Deezel;578789]Woah, take it easy fella. Didn't mean to strike a nerve. Take a deep breath and have a few sips of your Sunday morning coffee. The one play I criticized last week was the pass to Randle El in traffic when DT was in single coverage down the sideline on a pattern that wasn't all that deep. My point was that he had options on that play and went for the short pass vs. a mid to long pass that for most QBs is just as high a percentage play.

I don't think it's radical to submit that Zorn MAY NOT be that good of a coach, since he's got nothing in his past he can hang his hat on, except for the 6-2 start that could have been as much smoke and mirrors as anything else.

The only thing I'll admint is that you're a tool.[/quote]You tried to use it as indisputable proof that the quarterback didn't have an ability to see a play as it developed. You were wrong, you didn't take responsibility for being wrong, and this week, the gameplan proved you hilariously wrong.

I personally don't really care what you think about Zorn as a coach, and perhaps you'll be proven right on him in the long run. Maybe you'll be right about Campbell too, in the long run.

At this point though, all you've proven is that you're a hypocrite, and that I don't believe that there can be an outcome to this season that makes us both happy.

So, in light of the evidence, I hope Campbell and Zorn do well, win double digit games, and that you have a miserable year watching it.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Lets face it , if JC does not improve a great deal < he has to hit some passes 25 yds downfield > , we will have a new qb next year . Not that it is ALL is fault , but we need better production from the qb postion . That first pass to Kelly should have been 6 points , JC needed to lead MK to the middle .

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=budw38;578792]LEts face it , if JC does not improve a great deal < he has to hit some passes 25 yds downfield > , we will have a new qb next year . No it is not ALL is fault , but we need better production from the qb postion . That first pass to Kelly should have been 6 points , JC needed to lead MK to the middle .[/quote]Probably a bottom line summary.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;578785]I don't feel like I'm above this discussion, but if it devolves into a stupid comparison of what other quarterbacks did in their meaningless quarter of work, I have nothing of substance to add to a substanceless argument.

And yes, he has had 6-7, 100 yd stretches before against defenses like the Giants and Cowboys. As has Todd Collins. It's not a special accomplishment.

The problem is that Jason Campbell is being put on a "needs to produce" pedistal. Duh. So does everyone else. If other people are not producing, his job becomes more difficult. London Fletcher is under a ton of pressure to produce this year. Albert Haynesworth is probably under twice as much pressure as Fletcher. Both of them were involved on more plays yesterday than Campbell. And yet, not one thought about them?

There's other things to football besides harping on a meaningless sample performance by the QB. You and I know that. A few others do not seem to.[/quote]

I agree with all of this. I guess I am putting Campbell on the "needs to produce now pedestal" since the FO tried to get rid of him twice in the offseason.

It is possible that Fletcher could be gone after a poor year but I would be very surprised; first if he had a poor year and second if they followed that up with a release. Haynesworth's contract basically ties him to the team for several years so he could turn into Stubby this year and still be around for a while.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;578785]There's other things to football besides harping on a meaningless sample performance by the QB.[/quote]

This is the "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers" thread btw.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;578794]I agree with all of this. I guess I am putting Campbell on the "needs to produce now pedestal" [B]since the FO tried to get rid of him twice in the offseason.[/B][/quote]Can't blame you. I think my 2007 Jacksonville comparison in the game thread rings true. It's not fair to Byron Leftwich to suggest the team wouldn't have made the playoffs with him at quarterback.

Campbell is lucky that he's still here, but he didn't do anything wrong to warrant dismissal.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=roth74va;578795]This is the "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers" thread btw.[/quote]Good point.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;578796]Can't blame you. I think my 2007 Jacksonville comparison in the game thread rings true. It's not fair to Byron Leftwich to suggest the team wouldn't have made the playoffs with him at quarterback.

Campbell is lucky that he's still here, but he didn't do anything wrong to warrant dismissal.[/quote]

I would agree he hasnt done anything to warrant a dismissal, but in the same breath he has done anything to warrent a contract extention. I would love to see him get that extention and lead this team to the playoffs, so lets start to see it. Yes only a couple quarters of a "sample" to rate his preformance so far, but this is his 5th year. I want to see the growth and the experience show now..growth and experience synonymous with production. Its my expectations at this point in his career. I fear after the first official game I will hear the excuse "its just the first game, he will get better as the season goes on" and I dont find that acceptable at this point. I dunno, are my expectation too high? I feel like they are, but I just want to see JC first look comfortable in offense and succeed.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;578761]I think that even the Jason Campbell apologists have to raise an eyebrown on this performance. He had time and did nothing with it. He had two opportunities downfield and threw two bad balls. And even his mother would tell you he doesn't throw a good short ball.

I am not calling for Collins (yet) but he simply had a terrible game. For a guy who's career as a starter is on the line, he needs to pick it up.[/quote]

Can't argue with this, Campbell needs to play better

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Of course you'd like to see JC play better but I'm honestly not concerned based on what little we've seen so far.

Sounds like the gameplan with JC was more about taking some deep shots.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;578811]Of course you'd like to see JC play better but I'm honestly not concerned based on what little we've seen so far.

[B]Sounds like the gameplan with JC was more about taking some deep shots.[/B][/quote]

Both of which hit the hands of Steelers defenders before they hit the hands of our WRs....

Just saying.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Also in a driving rainstorm, just sayin

Hey I wish some of those deep throws were completed but again, I'm not overly concerned about what we've seen so far. You have to keep the preseason in perspective.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Campbell has 2 more preseason games to go. Next week should show more about where he's at. Think they'll practice deep routes this week?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;578829]Also in a driving rainstorm, just sayin

Hey I wish some of those deep throws were completed but again, I'm not overly concerned about what we've seen so far. You have to keep the preseason in perspective.[/quote]

Did you just use the word: "Perspective": on a Redskins thread discussing quarterback play?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

C'mon people. Is anyone seriously going to bitch about JC's performance last night? How long was he in there???

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=dblanch66;578834]Did you just use the word: "Perspective": on a Redskins thread discussing quarterback play?[/quote]

How's this for perspective- we haven't had consistent QB play for a decade.

I'm not overly concerned, but I'm concerned.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;578829][B]Also in a driving rainstorm,[/B] just sayin

Hey I wish some of those deep throws were completed but again, I'm not overly concerned about what we've seen so far. You have to keep the preseason in perspective.[/quote]

Ok, then if rain was the issue, why take deep shots? Why not intermediate routs to keep the chains moving? We already know JC has the arm.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Starters will play more this week, see how it goes

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

I think more than a production problem, Campbell now has a perception problem on his hands. The only way to cure that is either by winning games or piling up Tom Brady type numbers. Okay, maybe not Tom Brady numbers but Matt Cassel or Donovan McNabb stats will do just fine.

Seriously folks, as much as I love Campbell, at some point he has to outperform the hand he's been delt. That's what the NFL is all about. That's what makes it different from college football or high school football or Pop Warner. These guys get paid to do this shit. They've mastered the art of winning or have a penchant for making clutch plays or tossing the fade pass in the corner of the end zone. What words come to mind when you hear the name Jason Cambell? Potential maybe?

Campbell can continue pile up a bunch of few so-so and mediocre outings, but until he exeeds exceptations in either wins or individual stats peopole will ALWAYS have reservations about him. Even if the Skins go 8-8 this year, God forbid, Jason Campbell needs to have 12-4 stats under his name.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=12thMan;578846]I think more than a production problem, Campbell now has a perception problem on his hands. The only way to cure that is either by winning games or piling up Tom Brady type numbers. Okay, maybe not Tom Brady numbers but Matt Cassel or Donovan McNabb stats will do just fine.

Seriously folks, as much as I love Campbell, at some point he has to outperform the hand he's been delt. That's what the NFL is all about. That's what makes it different from college football or high school football or Pop Warner. These guys get paid to do this shit. They've mastered the art of winning or have a penchant for making clutch plays or tossing the fade pass in the corner of the end zone. What words come to mind when you hear the name Jason Cambell? Potential maybe?

Campbell can continue pile up a bunch of few so-so and mediocre outings, but until he exeeds exceptations in either wins or individual stats peopole will ALWAYS have reservations about him. Even if the Skins go 8-8 this year, Jason Campbell needs to have 12-4 stats under his name.[/quote]

great post. in order to put up some good numbers and help his team score more points he's got to force the issue a little more. and if that means throwing more int's then so be it. drew brees threw 17 picks last year. but so what? he threw 34 td's and 5,000 yards and got his team in the end zone. bottom line is jc's got to start taking more chances downfield. throwing a 5 yard pass and hoping that the wr is going to break a 50 yard run isn't going to happen in the nfl. but let's not judge him by last night's game. he threw a handful of passes and people around here get in an uproar.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

We will get a GREAT test this wk vs the pats!!!

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=skinsfan69;578836]C'mon people. Is anyone seriously going to bitch about JC's performance last night? How long was he in there???[/quote]

Until he looks good, yes people will bitch.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;578854]We will get a GREAT test this wk vs the pats!!![/quote]

No doubt. Tom Brady has that old fire back. He got pissed when Belichick snatched him out of the game last night. Slammed his helmet down and everything.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

4 years