Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Schneed10;583266]Mason doesn't add any value. He runs with decisiveness and decent elusiveness, but not moreso than Portis and Betts. He's not faster than Portis or Betts, he's not more powerful than Portis or Betts, he can't run block like Sellers, he's not a better pass protector than Portis or Betts, he's not a better receiver than Portis or Betts, and he's not a better special teamer than Rock is.

He adds nothing to your roster. Decent player but that's why he has no shot.

Alridge at least can offer a major upgrade in terms of breakaway speed over Portis and Betts.

Portis
Betts
Sellers
Rock
and if there's a 5th: Alridge[/quote]

Dude did you jsut ay he is not faster than Betts? LMAO..

My list

Portis - The unquestioned starter
Betts - Godo pass receiver..average back..Knows the system
Sellers - Awesome fullback who can catch the ball.
Mason - Good vision and decent speed and decent pass receiver
Aldridge - Good speed


Jsut because a player went to teams that were loaded with rbs doesn't mean he isn't good.

Baltimore - Mcgahee, Rice, McClain
Jets - Jones, Johnson, Chatman

* Keep in mind that all of the players above were with there teams since OTAs last year and knew the offense. Compared to someone coming in right before the start of the season.

I would take Rice and Johnson over Betts and defintiely McCalin over Rock.

So make your comparisions. If we have inuries to our running backs this year. You are going to wish we dropped Rock and Kept Aldridge & Mason.

Our ST sucks. So stop using that as an excuse to keep Rock. I love my Skins. Saying that. I am not going to let one unproductive player make us lose two running back prospect because he is on special teams and can't perform as a starting RB.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=SmootSmack;583265]Health is the biggest question.

Hey, I just realized your username-instead of repping your fandom of MW-can rep your fandom of the 53 man roster[/quote]

I have a feeling I'm going to be a big fan of our final 53. Maybe a couple of exceptions but as they say, winning cures everything. :)

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;583293]Dude did you jsut ay he is not faster than Betts? LMAO..

My list

Portis - The unquestioned starter
Betts - Godo pass receiver..average back..Knows the system
Sellers - Awesome fullback who can catch the ball.
Mason - Good vision and decent speed and decent pass receiver
Aldridge - Good speed


Jsut because a player went to teams that were loaded with rbs doesn't mean he isn't good.

Baltimore - Mcgahee, Rice, McClain
Jets - Jones, Johnson, Chatman

* Keep in mind that all of the players above were with there teams since OTAs last year and knew the offense. Compared to someone coming in right before the start of the season.

I would take Rice and Johnson over Betts and defintiely McCalin over Rock.

So make your comparisions. If we have inuries to our running backs this year. You are going to wish we dropped Rock and Kept Aldridge & Mason.

Our ST sucks. So stop using that as an excuse to keep Rock. I love my Skins. Saying that. I am not going to let one unproductive player make us lose two running back prospect because he is on special teams and can't perform as a starting RB.[/quote]

You might love your Skins, but you sure as hell don't understand them or the game of football very well.

You get rid of Rock and you have to replace our best tackler on punt coverage, our best tackler on kick off coverage, and our best kick return man.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Schneed10;583301]You might love your Skins, but you sure as hell don't understand them or the game of football very well.

You get rid of Rock and you have to replace our best tackler on punt coverage, our best tackler on kick off coverage, and our best kick return man.[/quote]

You obviously don't know football. Lets add some things up. So maybe YOU can understand...

1. What happened last year when CP and Betts got hurt? Where was Rock?

Oh we went and got a Shaun Alexander aka tip toe burgular..

2. He has returned one kick for TD..I think it was in 2006. Our special teams sucks. So to say he is the best tackler on special teams and thats the reason you want to keep him is frankly assinine.

3. Rock is 29 years old about to be 30 and so is Betts.

We have two RBs that have different type of styles to offer that would be more productive than Rock.

- So by your football knowledge. We have [B]no one else[/B] that can return kicks.

- We have no one that can tackle besides him on special teams and he makes every tackle on special teams? lol Dude please.

- We should learn from our mistakes in 08. By not keeping a RB that can contribute if Betts and CP get nicked.

We have Moss, Betts, Thomas and other that can return kicks plus have more than one duty on the team.

If Danny Smith is such a good ST coach (not). He should prepare all of his players to be good tacklers on ST.

But you right. I know nothing about football.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

You two have concluded that neither of you knows anything about football in argument over who the third string running back is going to be?

There is a good argument for keeping Rock and also for moving in another direction.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;583305]You obviously don't know football. Lets add some things up. So maybe YOU can understand...

1. What happened last year when CP and Betts got hurt? Where was Rock?

Oh we went and got a Shaun Alexander aka tip toe burgular..

2. He has returned one kick for TD..I think it was in 2006. Our special teams sucks. So to say he is the best tackler on special teams and thats the reason you want to keep him is frankly assinine.

3. Rock is 29 years old about to be 30 and so is Betts.

We have two RBs that have different type of styles to offer that would be more productive than Rock.

- So by your football knowledge. We have [B]no one else[/B] that can return kicks.

- We have know one that can tackle besides him on special teams and he makes every tackle on special teams. Dude please.

- We shouldn't learn from our mistakes in 08. By not keeping a RB that can contribute if Betts and CP get nicked.

We have Moss, Betts, Thomas and other that can return kicks plus have more than one duty on the team.

But you right. I know nothing about football.[/quote]

Wow, belligerent. I'm not sure whether to ream you out or admire you.

But seriously, you're vastly underestimating the importance of special teams. Rock didn't just return a kick for a TD, he ranks in the top 5 or 6 in the NFL in average yards on kick returns. The dude's legit.

But I do think we have other players who could adequately replace him on kick returns. Where I'd be much more concerned is punt and kick coverage, considering we already lost two out of our three best special teams tacklers in James Thrash and Khary Campbell. Losing Rock, the last of that coverage trio, would be a loss too great to bear. You'd be screaming at your TV in frustration every time we gave up a long return.

As for the injury risk, you're basing most of your argument on the anectdotal evidence from last season, when Betts got hurt and Portis "wore down." First off, Portis's drop off last year had more to do with a decimated offensive line than it did with his own drop off. But that notwithstanding, assuming that both of your top two RBs will be injured at the same time for a prolonged period is nothing short of retarded. Think about it, how many times have we needed to rely on Rock Cartwright (our #3 RB for the last 7 or 8 years) for more than a single game at a time?

The benefit Cartwright brings on special teams far outweighs the value Mason brings. Mason can't play teams, and he's no faster than Portis, Betts, or Cartwright. If you're going to mount an argument for any back over Cartwright, it definitely shouldn't be Mason. It should be Alridge, because at least he has a chance of breaking a gigantic play a la Darren Sproles.

Mason is completely ordinary. He can find holes and run with authority, that's about it. But he's a liability in pass protection so you can't put him on the field on 3rd downs. He doesn't have breakaway speed so he's not a fit as a change of pace back. And as discussed ad nauseum here, he can't play teams. He might be a decent back with a decent future ahead of him if he can improve on key areas, but we need other skill sets. We're all taken care of in the decent RB department, we've got two of them already. And to sacrifice a key special teams player for the sake of excess insurance at RB is, well, stupid.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;583282]Great thread. As far as the final two running backs are concerned I bet they'll have Mason and one of the two speed guys with Aldridge being the favorite. My guess is though that they also end up putting Eddie Williams (FB) on either the PUP list or the practice squad (I don't know if there's a real threat of him getting picked up by another team).



Lorenzo Alexander and Albert Haynesworth will share time at FB :D[/quote]

Can Eddie Williams be put on the PUP list? I thought he played in a game recently. Maybe not.

I was thinking Mike Williams as emergency FB. He was carrying Sellers around on his back the other day like a knapsack. :)

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

My take on Mason's likelihood of making the final 53 is it would indicate Zorn has less confidence in Betts than anyone previously thought. I mean that in a comprehensive way, like he doesn't have confidence Ladell can spot CP effectively, stay healthy the entire season and even be a legit starter in case Portis suffers injury. I doubt Zorn sees it this way though. Basically if Betts is a poor man's Portis as some say than Mason is a poor man's Betts. Aldridge or Dorsey should make the team tho cuz they bring something new to the table...super speed and agility. So if we're keeping 5 RBs it's gonna be:

CP, Betts, Rock, Sellers, Aldridge or Dorsey.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=wilsowilso;583306]You two have concluded that neither of you knows anything about football in argument over who the third string running back is going to be?

There is a good argument for keeping Rock and also for moving in another direction.[/quote]

Correction, I've concluded that he knows nothing about football and that I am the smartest guy in this thread.

:)

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

We're talking about the 3rd, possibly 4th string RB. I mean, really?

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Mattyk72;583311]We're talking about the 3rd, possibly 4th string RB. I mean, really?[/quote]

I'm talking more about our best special teams player than I am about our 3rd or 4th string RB. There's a huge difference, IMO.

But mainly this is a pissing match between me and a half-wit.

Yes, I'm easily amused.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Mattyk72;583311]We're talking about the 3rd, possibly 4th string RB. I mean, really?[/quote]

Well I'll take having the biggest argument of the offseason be about the 4th string RB or 3rd string QB, than having a huge question mark be about a 1st team player at any position.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Schneed10;583312]I'm talking more about our best special teams player than I am about our 3rd or 4th string RB. There's a huge difference, IMO.

But mainly this is a pissing match between me and a half-wit.

Yes, I'm easily amused.[/quote]

Yeah I get what you're saying, I'm just commenting in general. Seems to be a lot of passion over who should be the 3rd or 4th string RB, just seems kinda silly for people to get so fired up over it.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Ruhskins;583315]Well I'll take having the biggest argument of the offseason be about the 4th string RB or 3rd string QB, than having a huge question mark be about a 1st team player at any position.[/quote]

Yeah guess it's better than a starting QB debate

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

Just to toss my hat in, I think it's going to be Portis, Betts, Rock, Aldridge.

Either that or Portis, Betts, Rock.

I really don't see Mason making it, and I'd give the slight edge to Aldridge making it over Dorsey.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Mattyk72;583319]Just to toss my hat in, I think it's going to be Portis, Betts, Rock, Aldridge.

Either that or Portis, Betts, Rock.

I really don't see Mason making it, and I'd give the slight edge to Aldridge making it over Dorsey.[/quote]


Yeah this seems the likely scenario. I would switch Mason for Betts, but I'm a notorious Betts hater(not really I just think he is kinda average) so it wouldn't be fair to let me make the decision.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

Wow, I didn't know we had a crisis at third string running back.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=wilsowilso;583320]Yeah this seems the likely scenario. I would switch Mason for Betts, but I'm a notorious Betts hater(not really I just think he is kinda average) so it wouldn't be fair to let me make the decision.[/quote]

If the team is going to get rid of Betts, I would hope that they would get compensated for it. As good as Mason was during the preseason, I wouldn't replace Betts with him, and Rock has his special teams play that gives him the advantage.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

I would bet that if Aldridge makes it before Mason. I think that if Mason makes it they cut Cartight. A fifth running back has to be different, so I am betting on Aldrige and his change of pace speed.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

I think that Dorsey is more likely than Alridge, who has both health and fumble problems.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Lotus;583327]I think that Dorsey is more likely than Alridge, who has both health and fumble problems.[/quote]
You might be right, but there is one guy that no one has mentioned that I think has an outside chance to make the team. Eddie Williams. Prior to training camp I heard Vinny's exact words were he would probably start the season on the pup list. This struck me as odd, because he was basically saying he made the team. So maybe we are all overlooking this guy.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

I'm not getting the Aldrige love. He had one good preseason game. Did I miss something?

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

Well he only played in one, and had like one drive, where he looked like greased lighting and ran for like 50 yds and had 6 or seven yard average

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Schneed10;583312]I'm talking more about our best special teams player than I am about our 3rd or 4th string RB. There's a huge difference, IMO.

But mainly this is a pissing match between me and a half-wit.

Yes, I'm easily amused.[/quote]

How can you have a pissing match with yourself??? Very interesting.

I dont think our special teams have been that spectacular in years. I'd rather have a player that can do multiple things for our team. Than a subpar returner who is a excellent special teams tackler. If that is the only reason you want to keep him. You can't even be called a half wit.

If anything Rock is expendable. Thomas, Betts, Moss, etc. can return kicks and play another part on the team. Rock only plays special teams. I never said Mason was the only option. In my eyes. It isn't a question of CP production its about if he gets hurt and Betts comes in an takes over the reigns. Who is going to back him up? If your answer is Rock. Then why couldn't he do it last year. Dude get a clue. Get off Rocks nuts. Because he is a average player at best and is almost 30. I would take Mason, Aldridge & Dorsey over him. Special teams is important. But like someone said. If he is the best player on ST and ST sucks. What does that say? One thing it says is Danny Smith needs to be a better coach and prepare his unit better. Another thing is if Rock is so valuable as a tackler. Why have teams been getting superior filed position on returns for the past few years..??


If you have a player than can return punts and play on offense or defense as aback up or other wise.... Why would you keep a one dimensional subpar player? That stunts yoru chances for having a running back to mold for the future. Again Rock is almost 30..Get a clue. Idiot

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Mattyk72;583311]We're talking about the 3rd, possibly 4th string RB. I mean, really?[/quote]

I get your point. But the topic is about the final 53 and there will be some 3rd and 4th strings on the final roster....

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

Alridge is a nice player but prone to the injury bug going back to his days in Denver. Mason might not excel at ST playing, but can hit the hole better than all the others.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

What ever happened to DORSEY, everyone on here skips right over him to promote Mason and Aldridge?

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Mattyk72;583311]We're talking about the 3rd, possibly 4th string RB. I mean, really?[/quote]

LOL. And that is the most hilarious thing about this whole final RB slot. Rock will get the touches before any 4th RB. THe 4th RB will have to make the team base don special teams and that is why I think Mason fails to crack the roster.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=PennSkinsFan;583340]LOL. And that is the most hilarious thing about this whole final RB slot. Rock will get the touches before any 4th RB. THe 4th RB will have to make the team base don special teams and that is why I think Mason fails to crack the roster.[/quote]
I think that if an Aldridge makes it, he will play before we ever see Cartight. It is realy not a joke. They want a change of pace back that can take it to the house with break away speed. Thats why they brought those guys in. Cartright is another Clinton and Betts, just much less effective.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

What about Eddie Williams

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=WaldSkins;583336]What ever happened to DORSEY, everyone on here skips right over him to promote Mason and Aldridge?[/quote]

Dorsey could be the pick. I think Alridge has more talent myself but Dorsey may be the safer pick as Lotus has suggested. Dorsey fits the bill as a change of pace back and seems to have less of an injury history than Alridge. He has a step up on Mason too as far as a returner on teams.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;583341][B]I think that if an Aldridge makes it, he will play before we ever see Cartight.[/B] It is realy not a joke. They want a change of pace back that can take it to the house with break away speed. Thats why they brought those guys in. Cartright is another Clinton and Betts, just much less effective.[/quote]

I agree with this. If we keep him we're going to use him.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

I've posied that they might choose to replace Rock with a combination of players, but that seems almost silly.

I think Rock is pretty safe. As are Betts and Portis. This seems like a simple four man race for a roster spot. Mason/Alridge/Dorsey/E. Williams. And I think that it will be Mason, of the bunch. But he has no right to that spot, I just think he's the leader of the four.

And I think whoever gets it, becomes the 3rd RB, when they happen to be active. But Rock will have a stronger holding on his roster spot than Mason/Alridge/Dorsey.

Do not discount the possibility that the 3rd RB will come from another team's roster after cutdown day. It's probably 60-40% that Mason/Alridge/Dorsey make it to opening day.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

Aside from Vinny almost assuring that Mason/Aldridge/Dorsey would make the roster, he and Zorn both indicated that there are some veteran(s) who may be cut that will really surprise a lot of fans. I'm thinking this could be referring to some combination of Wynn/Cartwright/Betts.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=WaldSkins;583336]What ever happened to DORSEY, everyone on here skips right over him to promote Mason and Aldridge?[/quote]

Not me. I've been vocal about Dorsey since we signed him and gave him a shout again above.

I also am bewildered by the love for Alridge. He was a stud on one drive but otherwise has not shown anything but the ability to be hurt and to fumble on the rare occasions when he does practice.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

I think the thing that is going to bother me when we do make these cuts, is when some crazy yahoos are going to be ranting about how the team is going down the shitter....and all because we cut some 3rd or 4th stringer.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;583331]How can you have a pissing match with yourself??? Very interesting.

I dont think our special teams have been that spectacular in years. I'd rather have a player that can do multiple things for our team. [B]Than a subpar returner who is a excellent special teams tackler.[/B] [B]If that is the only reason you want to keep him.[/B] You can't even be called a half wit.

If anything Rock is expendable. Thomas, Betts, Moss, etc. can return kicks and play another part on the team. Rock only plays special teams. I never said Mason was the only option. In my eyes. It isn't a question of CP production its about if he gets hurt and Betts comes in an takes over the reigns. Who is going to back him up? [B]If your answer is Rock. Then why couldn't he do it last year.[/B] Dude get a clue. Get off Rocks nuts. Because he is a average player at best and is almost 30. I would take Mason, Aldridge & Dorsey over him. Special teams is important. [B]But like someone said.[/B] If he is the best player on ST and ST sucks. What does that say? One thing it says is Danny Smith needs to be a better coach and prepare his unit better. [B]Another thing is if Rock is so valuable as a tackler.[/B] Why have teams been getting superior filed position on returns for the past few years..??


If you have a player than can return punts and play on offense or defense as aback up or other wise.... Why would you keep a one dimensional subpar player? That stunts yoru chances for having a running back to mold for the future. Again Rock is almost 30..Get a clue. Idiot[/quote]

It's pretty hard for me to take you seriously when you come at me with sentence fragments.

We're clearly not watching the same team, the Redskins have been one of the better punt and kick coverage teams in recent years. That's directly attributable to guys like Rock, James Thrash, and Khary Campbell.

Your opinion on Rock is so far in the minority that it's not even worth debating anymore. Come back to reality a little bit, study up the numbers some, and maybe we can continue the conversation.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Ruhskins;583359]I think the thing that is going to bother me when we do make these cuts, is when some crazy yahoos are going to be ranting about how the team is going down the shitter....and all because we cut some 3rd or 4th stringer.[/quote]

If we cut Rob Jackson, we're looking at 0-16.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

It's going to be like last year at RB:

Portis
Betts
Sellers
Cartwright

Cartwright has done nothing to lose his job and is great at ST (KO returns), the only way another RB makes the team is if they take from another roster spot say WR like Randle-El or Renaldo Wynn. Unfortunately we just don't have the room for such talented RB's in the roster, it really is a shame.

I guess the development of Devin Thomas in KO could also be a sign that they are thinking of replacing the Rock, but I don't know if Thomas is fully trusted just yet for that role.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Lotus;583366]If we cut Rob Jackson, we're looking at 0-16.[/quote]

:rofl: