Re: American Indians look to high court
 

[quote=SmootSmack;589851]What do you mean? It was closed? I had no idea. Honestly. I didn't even notice it was closed

But anyway, I disagree that he's not coach friendly. But don't feel like continuously rehashing old news. So I will bow out of the discussion[/quote]

That's fine...don't do anything you don't want to.

However, I think it'd be interesting if a poll was started with that question. My contention is that there would be more 'nays' than 'yeas'.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

What's really funny is that when I navigate into this thread, an ad comes up for Indian costumes. Sorry. RED Indian costumes.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

Man, what's gonna happen to Chief Zee?

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

[quote=SBXVII;589842]but you need to stop with the whole DS should think about his pocket and change his name. [/quote]

You mean his name isn't really LDS - LilDannySnyder?

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

[quote=Giantone;589717]Why not just be known as Washington,keep the same colores,even keep the headress...just insert a big W?[/quote]
uuuuuuuhhhh, thanks but no thanks..hail

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

[quote=Eknox;589917]uuuuuuuhhhh, thanks but no thanks..hail[/quote]

......ok, well why not just the ........."Skins"
........who as a kid didn't play shirts and skins?

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

I thought the Indians already got a good deal from the govenment when they got all that land. What they want now some more money and land, or get rid of the name. Im still waiting on my 40 acres and a mule.Ok this has been going on to long and how much money does it cost to keep fighting this in court? It's time to let this go now. HTTR. Oh and I do have Indian in my family ( Black Feet) before I get called a Racist.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

[quote=skins89moss;589938]I[B] thought the Indians already got a good deal from the govenment when they got all that land.[/B] What they want now some more money and land, or get rid of the name. Im still waiting on my 40 acres and a mule.Ok this has been going on to long and how much money does it cost to keep fighting this in court? It's time to let this go now. HTTR. Oh and I do have Indian in my family ( Black Feet) before I get called a Racist.[/quote]
You probably will not be branded a racist for your remarks. You may wish to do a little research as to the plight, and history of the American Indian or you will no doubt be branded a few.....other things.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

[quote=70Chip;589838]I assumed he changed it from Braves to Redskins because it sounds more like Red Sox.

The fact that this filing was timed to the opening of the football season suggests to me that this is less about righting an injustice than it is about [SIZE=3]garnering publicity to help fund raising[/SIZE].[/quote]

That cannot be right they alleady have 7 people in their group.LOL

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

Bill Plaschke or whatever his name is, on Around The Horn just told the judges to "do the right thing and get rid of the name: Redskins"

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

Plaschke, Do the right thing and get a toupee.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

So why is it that Florida State can have a Seminole?

Why can a chewing tobacco company use this?

[IMG]http://www.smokersoutletonline.com/images/Image013%20(2).jpg[/IMG]

Did every other team ask if it was ok to use the likeness of types of people before they made their logos?

Did any of the teams that were named after animals petition PETA to make sure that it was OK to use animal likeness in Logos? The answer is no because it is absurd to do so.

If any Native American wants to name their casino the "Pale Face Palace" It would not bother me one bit. The truth is that they are just logos and nicknames that were created to provide an identity and instill a minute amount of fear into the opposition while providing pride for the teams followers. In no way is it degrading a people.

I have a 100% Native American Aunt who is from Michigan and married into our family decades ago. My grandmother is 50% Cherokee. Both of them are Redskin fans. This fight has no merrit in my mind.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

[quote=Beemnseven;589846]Probably the greatest victory of the PC crowd. Or worst, depending on how you look at it.

I concur with irish that one day, hopefully not in my lifetime, the nickname will be changed.[/quote]

Really? Was it a victory by the "PC crowd" or simply a conscientious and responsible decision by the owners of the team? And what exactly is the perspective of those who find the changing of the name bullets as the "worst" victory of the "PC crowd"?? I'm wracking my brain here trying to figure out what the negatives would be for a professional sports team residing in a urban center plagued with gun violence to change its name to something that [I]doesn't[/I] invoke guns and violence, but I'm afraid I'm drawing a blank.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

Because then they get a terrible name like the wizards.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

With regards to the Bullets changing their name I was under the impression that the owner decided to change the name after his good friend who just happened to be the Prime Minister of Israel got murdered. He alone decided that he didn't want the team name to have any connection to gun violence.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

[quote=wilsowilso;590888]With regards to the Bullets changing their name I was under the impression that the owner decided to change the name after his good friend who just happened to be the Prime Minister of Israel got murdered. He alone decided that he didn't want the team name to have any connection to gun violence.[/quote]

Well that was sort of the final straw that led to his decision...however, Pollin felt the name Bullets had acquired violent overtones.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

I think the Patriots and the Cowboys should be forced to change their respective names because they glorify the very people who stole land from the Native Americans. Hell, you could probably also include the Vikings in that group.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

I'm a huge hoops fan and I've always loved the name Bullets. I wish they would change the name back to it. The Baltimore Bullets made sense, due to the munitions factories put there to ship supplies to our troops in Europe. Washington Bullets doesn't make as much sense, but it's still a cool name and Wizards is just an awful name. I'd have preferred Sea Dogs.

The Redskins name should go. Change it to the Warlords. Washington Warlords has got a ring to it and some historical context, due to the great presidents and generals who have led wars from this city where I'm typing.

The fact that some other offensive Amerindian names and images are still being used is not relevant. The right thing should be done because it is the right thing to do. Let others be wrong.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;590940]I think the Patriots and the Cowboys should be forced to change their respective names because they glorify the very people who stole land from the Native Americans. Hell, you could probably also include the [B]Vikings[/B] in that group.[/quote]I think the federal and state governments had done whatever they wanted to do to the Amerindians before the massive immigration from Scandinavia to the upper Midwest took place.

Cowboys and Patriots aren't names that offend anyone.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

Fine. If this happens then all ethnic teams should go. Well then goodbye: redskins vikings, cowboys, buccaneers, patriots, chiefs, indians, braves, pirates, canadians, blackhawks, canucks, fighting irish, seminoles, and so on...

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

[URL="http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-plaschke18-2009sep18,0,3967721.column?track=rss"]Native American equivalent to the N-word?
[/URL]

How is it the equivalent to the 'N' word?

More PC bollocks from the LA Times. Worst paper ever.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

I wonder what Bill Plaschke's credentials on the subject are?

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

[quote=Angry;590884]So why is it that Florida State can have a Seminole?

Why can a chewing tobacco company use this?

[IMG]http://www.smokersoutletonline.com/images/Image013%20(2).jpg[/IMG]

Did every other team ask if it was ok to use the likeness of types of people before they made their logos?

Did any of the teams that were named after animals petition PETA to make sure that it was OK to use animal likeness in Logos? The answer is no because it is absurd to do so.

If any Native American wants to name their casino the "Pale Face Palace" It would not bother me one bit. The truth is that they are just logos and nicknames that were created to provide an identity and instill a minute amount of fear into the opposition while providing pride for the teams followers. In no way is it degrading a people.

I have a 100% Native American Aunt who is from Michigan and married into our family decades ago. My grandmother is 50% Cherokee. Both of them are Redskin fans. This fight has no merrit in my mind.[/quote]

In the state of Florida, the head of the Seminole tribe went to bat for the Florida Seminole team. According to her they were not offended but honored by the........reverence, and respect attached by the Seminole faithful.
Makes you wonder just WHO was offended if the NA's were not?
ACLU?

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

[quote=RedskinRat;591057][URL="http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-plaschke18-2009sep18,0,3967721.column?track=rss"]Native American equivalent to the N-word?
[/URL]

How is it the equivalent to the 'N' word?

More PC bollocks from the LA Times. Worst paper ever.[/quote]

It isn't. The N word is universally regarded as demeaning. Redskins is not in any way considered as such (except maybe to football sensibilities at times). There could be some people who don't like the term. But you can find some people to not like anything.

Saving a choking baby? You can find some people who don't like it.
Capitalism? Some don't like it.
Smootsmack? Njall doesn't like him.

Just because a few don't like it doesn't make it wrong. Now if they could prove a culturally significant group of unignorable size thought it was offensive then maybe I could understand.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

This case probably will never get heard.

First, what they are doing is appealing to the USSCT for a '[B]writ of certiorari[/B]'.

The Supreme Ct gets THOUSANDS of these a year, from nearly everyone who lost at the Appellate level.

The supreme court hears maybe 20 - 50 a year, and are hearing fewer and fewer cases every year.

They generally only take cases where (a) there have been similar cases resulting in different outcomes among different courts of appeals (e.g the 4th circuit says something is ok but the 9th says it's fine), or (b) he matter is of great national import.

This is certainly not the former and seems not to be the latter. At its heart it is a trademark case.

If it does hear the appeal, it is only on the question of did the appeals court make a mistake in handling the appeal?

It will not rehear the case all over ('de novo').

I bet you will hear that 'cert was denied' meaning they won't even hear the case.

That has the effect of letting the appeals ct decision stand, and in effect even strengthening the decision.

J-dawg

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

[quote=FRPLG;591081]It isn't. The N word is universally regarded as demeaning. Redskins is not in any way considered as such (except maybe to football sensibilities at times). There could be some people who don't like the term. But you can find some people to not like anything.

Saving a choking baby? You can find some people who don't like it.
Capitalism? Some don't like it.
Smootsmack? Njall doesn't like him.

[B]Just because a few don't like it doesn't make it wrong.[/B] Now if they could prove a culturally significant group of unignorable size thought it was offensive then maybe I could understand.[/quote]

So the offensive level of a term is dependent upon the number of people who are offended by it? That's interesting. So therefore a derogatory term would no longer be derogatory following an effective genocide of those people? Worth considering when we refer to the "few" who are offended by the term Redskins.

Let's stop being foolish. Redskins is an unfortunate nickname. As lifetime fans of the team, we don't want to see a name change, but lets not try to justify our selfishness by denying the derogatory nature of the moniker.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

[quote=Coff;591110]So the offensive level of a term is dependent upon the number of people who are offended by it? That's interesting. So therefore a derogatory term would no longer be derogatory following an effective genocide of those people? Worth considering when we refer to the "few" who are offended by the term Redskins.

Let's stop being foolish. Redskins is an unfortunate nickname. As lifetime fans of the team, we don't want to see a name change, but lets not try to justify our selfishness by denying the derogatory nature of the moniker.[/quote]

So if one person finds something "offensive" then it is so? I think that's more interesting. In fact I find your screen name offensive. Please change it.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

[quote=Coff;591110]So the offensive level of a term is dependent upon the number of people who are offended by it? That's interesting. So therefore a derogatory term would no longer be derogatory following an effective genocide of those people? Worth considering when we refer to the "few" who are offended by the term Redskins.

Let's stop being foolish. Redskins is an unfortunate nickname. As lifetime fans of the team, [B]we don't want to see a name change[/B], but lets not try to justify our selfishness by denying the derogatory nature of the moniker.[/quote]
Who exactly are you speaking for?

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

We used to have to go to the Super Bowl to get all this fuss, miss those days.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

Some people get out of bed in the morning just [B]looking[/B] for a reason to be offended. I wonder if the people complaining about being offended have ever offended anyone? Wanting to change the name of my favorite football team every few years after the court has ruled against it kind of offends[B] me[/B]. You can find something offensive in a lot of things if that's what you're looking for.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

[quote=Coff;591110]So the offensive level of a term is dependent upon the number of people who are offended by it?[/quote]

You can't merrily cater to everyone, at some point people are going to have to grow a spine or get thicker skin.

[quote=Coff;591110]That's interesting. So therefore a derogatory term would no longer be derogatory following an effective genocide of those people? [/quote]

Cool! I'm on board. In honor of your idea we'll call it the [I]'For Coff Redskins'[/I] Project. Deal?

Redskins is NOT a racial slur. Never was. No Professional team has been named a derogatory term because you're trying to sell stuff and present an inspiring image. How would that make any sense?

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

[quote=FRPLG;591143][B]So if one person finds something "offensive" then it is so? [/B] I think that's more interesting. In fact I find your screen name offensive. Please change it.[/quote]

If you carefully review the logic of my statement, you'll find that is exactly what I'm NOT saying. You're reversing the syllogism, which is a fallible argument.

Re: American Indians look to high court
 

Unfortunately, we do live in a society that if one is offended we have to listen. Look at a joke at work for instance, everyone could laugh at it, but if 1 person finds it offensive, then all of sudden, it is.
I just have a feeling that even if we win this battle, eventually we will lose cause we as a society are getting more and more "touchy".
I personally feel this is a DUMB battle. The name should not offend anyone in my opinion, but it does cause some people just like to complain. They are miserable and they want others to be miserable. Fact is, by taking the name away, you are hurting MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of fans, while making a select few happy. Also, even though the Cowboys fans will laugh, most of them will be upset that they no longer have the "Cowboys vs Indians" rivalry.
In summation, you are hurting more than you're helping by getting rid of the name.

I would LOVE to pose the idea that the people trying to get the named abolished have to pay each and every redskins fan fair market value for all their redskins apparel and memorbilia. I bet this lawsuit would quickly disappear if they had to do that.

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[quote=Hog1;591144][B]Who exactly are you speaking for[/B]?[/quote]

Lifetime fans of the team, as in "As lifetime fans of the team, we don't want to see a name change." Maybe I'm being presumptuous, but I just assumed that no die hard fans ever want to see a name change. The bigger point I'm making is that to approach this topic from an objective standpoint rather than as Redskins fans may give us a different outlook, but that's not going to happen if people are more concerned with defending the team's nickname than discovering the true meaning of the word. Whether or not the term is offensive is hardly an argument. Redskin fans and many other people may not think it is, but lexicographers are pretty much in agreement. From Webster's to the American Heritage Dictionary, the term is labelled "offensive." I haven't been able to locate the definition through the OED, the be all and end all of English language dictionaries, but according to Wikipedia (admittedly not a credible source), the OED also considers the word offensive.

Look, I'm just being honest with myself; I can accept the opinion of objective experts who consider the term offensive while at the same time defend the team in keeping the name.