Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;594541]can I point out that minus JCs fumble, our offense did score more than the Giants.[/quote]

Feel free to do that.

But you then have to take our fake FG TD play out of our offensive points equation. They then beat us 16-10.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;594539]If that was true then this would have happened...Redskins score > Giants score

...being that it didn't I'd say your narrative is the one that is inaccurate.[/quote]Nope. You can't draw that conclusion strictly from the premises I gave. You also have to assume extra information.

The premises I gave are as follows, in case you missed it:

1) The Giants defense is not in the business of handing out chunks of yards for free. Large chunks of yards are earned.

2) Redskins, with the whole game as evidence, moved the ball through the air with relative ease. Therefore, Redskins passing offense > Giants passing defense.

The conclusion I'm making is that what happened between 3:00 and 1:30 in this game is not at all surprising, given the way the rest of the game had gone. It also [I]ended up[/I] being irrelevant. But you didn't and couldn't have concluded at the time that it was irrelivant. Therefore, you can't assume what you are assuming about the TD not mattering.

Note that nowhere did I suggest that the Giants weren't the better team, only that, I'm not seeing the dominance you were.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;594546]Feel free to do that.

But you then have to take our fake FG TD play out of our offensive points equation. They then beat us 16-10.[/quote]

But that is still better than allowing them to put up 32 points as the Cowboys did. Moral victories don't count, but this is a Giants team that many are arguing to be the best team in football right now.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;594546]Feel free to do that.

But you then have to take our fake FG TD play out of our offensive points equation. [B]They then beat us 16-10[/B].[/quote]

That's hardly dominant is it Tee?

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;594536]lol...No...of course not. Why would I want them to suck?

I'm not saying they're going to lose this Sunday...they're playing the Lions for god sakes.

But everyone, including me, is seriously considering that they will struggle against the 0-18 lions when they do play. What is the expectation on the year if we struggle against the lions on Sunday?...[B]It doesn't take the finest football minds to tell you that playing out of the gate this season we're not built to last or to win[/B].

That's probably why there is a hint of salt to my replies.[/quote]

I don't think that's really a fair statement. We have youth at the DL, OL(yes there is youth there), WR's, CB's, QB, Safeties. Now in terms of built to win, again, I am the optimist that says our qb has a very good pass completion percent, low int rate. our DL should be fierce as it gets on the same page. And Kelly/ARE/Cooley may become a triple threat receiving.

Obviously built to win, they need to prove that. But built to last, if our owner doesn't listen to the fan hacks, and instead stays patient, this team has a lot of youth that is capable of being together for many years.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;594546]Feel free to do that.

But you then have to take our fake FG TD play out of our offensive points equation. They then beat us 16-10.[/quote]

Why do I have to take that out? the fake FG was at the end of a 50+ yard sustained drive, not a one play fumble recovery td. Just because zorn aggressively went for the TD and got it doesn't negate the drive that got us to that point does it?

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=GTripp0012;594548]Nope. You can't draw that conclusion strictly from the premises I gave. You also have to assume extra information.

The premises I gave are as follows, in case you missed it:

1) The Giants defense is not in the business of handing out chunks of yards for free. Large chunks of yards are earned.

2) Redskins, with the whole game as evidence, moved the ball through the air with relative ease. Therefore, Redskins passing offense > Giants passing defense.

The conclusion I'm making is that what happened between 3:00 and 1:30 in this game is not at all surprising, given the way the rest of the game had gone. It also [I]ended up[/I] being irrelevant. But you didn't and couldn't have concluded at the time that it was irrelivant. Therefore, you can't assume what you are assuming about the TD not mattering.

Note that nowhere did I suggest that the Giants weren't the better team, only that, I'm not seeing the dominance you were.[/quote]

Since this is our fastest TD drive to date, please reference the time of possession of any other TD scoring drive from this present year.


To say the Giants weren't playing soft with less than 3 minutes on the clock and up by two TD scores...you're just making trivial excuses.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=12thMan;594540]Man remember a couple of years ago Tanna ate the Chiefs up with the screen pass? Was Herm Edwards the coach then?[/quote]

78 yards I believe. I was thinking of that play today. They need to throw it early to get Santana in the game. I'm not buying all the crap about him being doubled. Every good WR sees double teams. He's a playmaker. They need to get him the ball, period. I don't care if he's quadruple-teamed.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=53Fan;594550]That's hardly dominant is it Tee?[/quote]

When we score 7 of those 10 in the last 1 minute and half of the game it is.

We didn't even threaten scores at any time during the game. To me it didn't seem like the Skins were in the game at all.

Do any of you remember cheering during that game. At home for me it was sparse with the people I was watching it with. I'm sure I wasn't the only one.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

From ESPN
Giants game
Time Qtr length start plays yards result
02:11 2 01:50 WAS 23 7 77 Touchdown

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;594554]Why do I have to take that out? the fake FG was at the end of a 50+ yard sustained drive, not a one play fumble recovery td. Just because zorn aggressively went for the TD and got it doesn't negate the drive that got us to that point does it?[/quote]

You were going off of offensive output only and since our special teams unit put up that TD then it shouldn't count in the context of what you were discussing.

I'd give them the FG there for 16-13 in the context of offensive output.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;594555]Since this is our fastest TD drive to date, please reference the time of possession of any other TD scoring drive from this present year.


To say the Giants weren't playing soft with less than 3 minutes on the clock and up by two TD scores...you're just making trivial excuses.[/quote]Congrats on 1,000 posts.

1) You weren't originally arguing that the Giants were playing softer coverage given the score, you were arguing that the TD shouldn't be counted in the game analysis. That's a BIG difference. If you are amending the argument to better fit the facts, state that up front.

2) While I'm busy searching for another TD drive that happened in 1:40, why don't you also search for another TD drive (hell, any sustained drive of any length) in which we didn't have even one rushing attempt. Since, I feel the # of times you put the ball on the ground will probably correlate well to the time the drive took, this should be fairly straightforward.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;594555]Since this is our fastest TD drive to date, please reference the time of possession of any other TD scoring drive from this present year.


To say the Giants weren't playing soft with less than 3 minutes on the clock and up by two TD scores...you're just making trivial excuses.[/quote]

The garbage time drive happens ALL THE TIME. Just about any time a team has a 2 TD lead with only a couple mins left, the other team invariably and miraculously finds a way to get down the field in a hurry. They couldn't get down the field in a hurry against the Rams, so I have no doubt their last drive against the Giants had something, scratch that, everything to do with the Defense the Giants were playing.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;594564]You were going off of offensive output only and since our special teams unit put up that TD then it shouldn't count in the context of what you were discussing.

I'd give them the FG there for 16-13 in the context of offensive output.[/quote]

Maybe so, but our offense was directly responsible for putting the special teams in that position.

the Giants offense had no impact on the 7 points on the fumble. They didn't touch the ball.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;594552]I don't think that's really a fair statement. We have youth at the DL, OL(yes there is youth there), WR's, CB's, QB, Safeties. Now in terms of built to win, again, I am the optimist that says our qb has a very good pass completion percent, low int rate. our DL should be fierce as it gets on the same page. And Kelly/ARE/Cooley may become a triple threat receiving.

Obviously built to win, they need to prove that. But built to last, if our owner doesn't listen to the fan hacks, and instead stays patient, this team has a lot of youth that is capable of being together for many years.[/quote]

I meant built to last the season and not future years.

With Thomas being out for the year and not really having a clear cut replacement for him.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=44Deezel;594566]The garbage time drive happens ALL THE TIME. Just about any time a team has a 2 TD lead with only a couple mins left, the other team invariably and miraculously finds a way to get down the field in a hurry. They couldn't get down the field in a hurry against the Rams, so I have no doubt their last drive against the Giants had something, scratch that, everything to do with the Defense the Giants were playing.[/quote]So if your making the argument that the Giants played softer coverage once up by two scores, what percentage of the total drive value would you give the Redskins credit for then?

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;594568]I meant built to last the season and not future years.

With Thomas being out for the year and not really having a clear cut replacement for him.[/quote]

ok I misunderstood, sorry

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Hog1;594471]A......few things:
1) If we were Eagle fans we would have burned the Vet to the ground some time ago.
2) This is the biggest game of Zorn's career
3) We WILL indeed find out much about our team and coach over the next few weeks.
4) I agree, they're CLOSE
5)[B] If winning ugly is the formula for now, let's take it god damnit[/B]

CAN I get a HELL YAH?
IT'S CLOBBERIN' TIME
HTTR[/quote]
~~~~
If I recall a few years ago the Baltimore Ravens won ugly but damnit they still won.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=GTripp0012;594565]Congrats on 1,000 posts.

1) You weren't originally arguing that the Giants were playing softer coverage given the score, you were arguing that the TD shouldn't be counted in the game analysis. That's a BIG difference. If you are amending the argument to better fit the facts, state that up front.

2) While I'm busy searching for another TD drive that happened in 1:40, why don't you also search for another TD drive (hell, any sustained drive of any length) in which we didn't have even one rushing attempt. Since, I feel the # of times you put the ball on the ground will probably correlate well to the time the drive took, this should be fairly straightforward.[/quote]

Thanks for the congrats GTripp.

The question I was asking was a trick one.

Our first team offense hasn't scored any other time this season other than the TD on the giants in obvious soft coverage and defense at the last minute and half of that game.

Being that we're not a quick scoring team the fact that we scored in a minute and a half is a tip off that those conditions are not constant. If so we'd have more scoring to show for it but alas, we don't.

Hail to the Redskins!

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;594575]Thanks for the congrats GTripp.

The question I was asking was a trick one.

Our first team offense hasn't scored any other time this season other than the TD on the giants in obvious soft coverage and defense at the last minute and half of that game.

Being that we're not a quick scoring team the fact that we scored in a minute and a half is a tip off that those conditions are not constant. If so we'd have more scoring to show for it but alas, we don't.

Hail to the Redskins![/quote]I think it's a good argument that you are making, perhaps not one I would have thought of, but I just feel like it's sort of misplaced in a debate about whether or not the touchdown mattered. If anything, isn't the hurry up offense consistent with what we all believe we will work best with our offense, and get us out of this 13 PPG rut?

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=TheSmurfs22;594574]~~~~
If I recall a few years ago the Baltimore Ravens won ugly but damnit they still won.[/quote]

What's up with all the dammits?

There's gotta be some hardcore country folks in here getting all inspired by the dammits : )


I'm going to get into the dammit this week and see if it works.

"Dammit Campbell, hit Moss IN STRIDE!"..."Zorn has his head up his a$$ calling a triple reverse on six...dammit!"

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;594575]Thanks for the congrats GTripp.

The question I was asking was a trick one.

Our first team offense hasn't scored any other time this season other than the TD on the giants in obvious soft coverage and defense at the last minute and half of that game.

Being that we're not a quick scoring team the fact that we scored in a minute and a half is a tip off that those conditions are not constant. If so we'd have more scoring to show for it but alas, we don't.

Hail to the Redskins![/quote]
Tee, I am curious, why do you discount the drive at the end of the 1st half of the giants game? yes, the TD came from a trick play, but it was still the end result of that drive. I think it says something that in 3 out of 4 halfs we have driven down, quickly both times in the Giants game, and in 7 minute drive in the Rams game.
Here are our last possession of each half for the first two games. Other than Santana's Fumble they were all good drives


START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YDS
02:11 2 01:50 WAS 23 7 77 TD
03:12 4 01:42 WAS 28 7 72 TD
03:56 2 02:44 WAS 22 9 48 Fumble
09:15 4 07:20 WAS 20 15 76 Downs

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;594585]Tee, I am curious, why do you discount the drive at the end of the 1st half of the giants game? yes, the TD came from a trick play, but it was still the end result of that drive. I think it says something that in 4 halfs we have driven down at the end of each, quickly both times in the Giants game, and in 6 minute drives in the Rams game.
Here are our last possession of each half for the first two games. Other than Santana's Fumble they were all good drives
02:11 2 01:50 WAS 23 7 77 TD
03:12 4 01:42 WAS 28 7 72 TD
03:56 2 02:44 WAS 22 9 48 Fumble
09:15 4 07:20 WAS 20 15 76 Downs[/quote]

That fake FG TD drive was another quick scoring one.

If the Skins can prove that they can score quickly with any set of downs and not the ones right before half or the game then I would give them credit for it.


The thing that scares me is I think they're trying to win and the result is what you're seeing on the field.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

I think I agree with Skinny here. In the end of the Giants game the chances of winning were quite small when that final drive started. Gmen knew we needed the onside kick. On the Cooley TD, however, they did blitz, not just drop back.

I also think we need to distinguish between "garbage drives" and end of first half drives. I think being able to move up and down the field before halftime is huge as it has an impact on momentum. As soon as Hunter got that TD we gained some momentum back. Otherwise it was about to be a slaughter the way the game had been going.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

I beleive they are very close all teams have bad games, the Rams was ours, it's only the 2nd game of the season and it was a win.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;594483]Winning ugly against teams like the Rams and Lions?...That equates to losing ugly to the competitive teams in this league.

How the hell are the Skins close? What have the Redskins shown you the past two weeks that makes them close to anything but the basement of the NFC?

And if this Zorn's biggest game of his career then I feel sorry for Zorn's career. Those are some pathetic expectations you have for Zorn this year.[/quote]
At the moment can you think of another game more important to JZ's future than this one?
Good teams win even when they play bad. We will find out soon enough about this team. Until it is confirmed either way I would prefer to think we will right the ship and......go upward and onward.
If it makes you more comfortable to believe the worst.............so be it

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

redskins barely win 16-13

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Hog1;594596]At the moment can you think of another game more important to JZ's future than this one?
Good teams win even when they play bad. We will find out soon enough about this team. Until it is confirmed either way I would prefer to think we will right the ship and......go upward and onward.
If it makes you more comfortable to believe the worst.............so be it[/quote]

I guess Tee is saying it is pretty sad that the apex of Zorns head coaching stint is against the nineteen-straight loss Lions. I dont think it is a matter of what makes one feel comfortable, but rather a matter of fact based on what has been shown so far(this season, preseason and the last 8 games last year).

If the Skins play great next game(all of the sudden), rest of the season and make the playoffs it will be nothing short of a miracle. I really dont see how else to look at it.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Hog1;594596]At the moment can you think of another game more important to JZ's future than this one?
Good teams win even when they play bad. We will find out soon enough about this team. Until it is confirmed either way I would prefer to think we will right the ship and......go upward and onward.
If it makes you more comfortable to believe the worst.............so be it[/quote]

Onward and upward???

You do realize that you're not conducting the Skins locker room halftime speech?

You can motivate yourself all you want but what you're going to end up seeing is the same production that I am on Sundays. Your optimism is based on something completely outside of visual evaluation...god bless you for that. There should be more people like you in this world.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

Just watched the Lions vs Viks game on NFL Rewind and I must say the Lions looked good on several drives. I didn't know they have Larry Foote playing for them now and they did a pretty decent job against Peterson. They're not going to be easy to beat for any of you that think this game should be a gimme.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=saden1;594625]Just watched the Lions vs Viks game on NFL Rewind and I must say the Lions looked good on several drives. I didn't know they have Larry Foote playing for them now and they did a pretty decent job against Peterson. They're not going to be easy to beat for any of you that think this game should be a gimme.[/quote]

I don't think anyone thinks this is going to be an easy game, including the Redskins.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

that garbage touchdown we scored at the end is also known as the ... spreadbuster! or better known as the "backdoor cover" thank you redskins...at least you won money.

oh and if you like money...go ahead and be on washington this week... we will beat the kitty kat lions by at least 2 touchdowns.

we will pick off stafford the staff infection at least a half dozen times. mwauhahahaha

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

there is no such thing as a "gimme game" in the NFL...these are professionaly paid people playing a game. much like a caged animal...if you let it loose...anything can happen. that said, i think we take care of business...we have better players on paper...it's just a question of if they decide to show up...and most importantly ..... if we execute.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=tootergray34;594643]that garbage touchdown we scored at the end is also known as the ... spreadbuster! or better known as the "backdoor cover" thank you redskins...at least you won money.

oh and if you like money...go ahead and be on washington this week... we will beat the kitty kat lions by at least 2 touchdowns.

we will pick off stafford the staff infection at least a half dozen times. mwauhahahaha[/quote]

Nice...the Warpath's own wager advocate.

How much money are you putting down on the Redskins to beat the spread this week? I want to see how sure you are.

...Do you want to bet your signature that they'll beat the spread?

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=saden1;594625]Just watched the Lions vs Viks game on NFL Rewind and I must say the Lions looked good on several drives. I didn't know they have Larry Foote playing for them now and they did a pretty decent job against Peterson. They're not going to be easy to beat for any of you that think this game should be a gimme.[/quote]

Yeah, but it was a divisional game. Even when the Cowboys were 1-15, they would play us tough. Divisional opponents always seem to play each other tough. I believe the Lions were close to beating the Vikes last year. But I hear ya. We can't sleep on the Lions... or anyone for that matter.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=DCtoAZ;594476]Finally someone who sees it correctly .. it's so annoying how everyone is FREAKING out .. we are 1-1 .. last time I checked it's a bottom line league, bottom line is who didn't think we'd be 1-1 at this point.. yeah the Rams game had issues, but WE WON .. would you rather we lost ? WTF ...the offense does look better than last year .. you have to admit it .. sure we have the RED Zone issues, ummm that is fixable .. it's not like we lost Cooley, Moss, POrtis, etc .. they are all healthy .. Zorn has the pressure .. I firmly believe this is the offense's coming out party this weekend ... finally people will shut the f@#% up about this team and get behind them .. Our DEFENSE is a championship D .. don't be fooled .. they are that good ... let's get the ball rolling on O and the chips will fall where they may ..

Skins BIG THIS WEEKEND !~!!!!!!!!!!!!

[COLOR="Red"][B][SIZE="6"]Skins 44
Lions 17[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

Stafford - 3 INTS (1 for TD by HALL) ... 5 SACKS ![/quote]


Whose our new QB if we are scoring 44 points?

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

The 44 points come from our monster blockbuster strategy of keeping 5rbs on the roster!
dammit!

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=skinny tee;594604]onward and upward???

You do realize that you're not conducting the skins locker room halftime speech?

You can motivate yourself all you want but what you're going to end up seeing is the same production that i am on sundays. Your optimism is based on something completely outside of visual evaluation...god bless you for that. There should be more people like you in this world.[/quote]
httr

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

Redskins- 30 Lions 14

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

I think SkinnyTee broke the record for number of posts in one thread.