Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

Speaking of Gruden anyone else hear him today on NFL radio? He is so freaking funny. He really does have a bright career ahead of him in broadcasting. The stories he tells are just hilarious. He would be one of those guys I would love to have a beer with and just listen to his football stories.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600068]Well as of yesterday Gruden has said he's not interested. But a package Bruce Allen/Jon Gruden deal is intriguing. Though Gruden wears out his welcome with players rather easily, as I understand it.

I'm not sold on Shanahan as a GM. Not sold on Cowher as a GM. Don't know how I feel about Holmgren as a head coach (for the long term). None of the frequently mentioned candidates really appeal to me at this point.[/quote]Holmgren is probably a worse playcaller than Zorn is, at least based on his work with Seahawks teams. But this team doesn't need a genius playcaller, it needs a stronger leadership figure.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=roth74va;599976]Thats the funniest thing Ive read all week, you gotta be a Maryland fan. Heyer is a decent back-up at best, no way should he be starting. Look at the tape!!![/quote]

I agree that he shouldn't be considered starting caliber, but Jason Campbell has had time to throw this year. His problem continues to be creating lanes in the running game. Of course it sounds like you thought I was putting his pass blocking skills on par with that of Chris Samuals.

Thats not the case, I'm probably even more tired this point of the Heyer experiment then you are, which in part is why I wanted the team to sign Ray Willis during the offseason. Now Seattle only has the 15th best rushing attack in the league right now but they're lead running back is averaging almost 5 yards per carry right now (4.9) while their lead back has 10 carries for 56 yards. I'm pretty sure part of that is due to the fact that they can run the ball to either side.

[quote=SmootSmack;600068]Well as of yesterday Gruden has said he's not interested. But a package Bruce Allen/Jon Gruden deal is intriguing. Though Gruden wears out his welcome with players rather easily, as I understand it.

I'm not sold on Shanahan as a GM. Not sold on Cowher as a GM. Don't know how I feel about Holmgren as a head coach (for the long term). None of the frequently mentioned candidates really appeal to me at this point.[/quote]

All the more reason to hire a guy like DeCosta and let him lead a coaching search. If he sees one of the big names out there as a good fit then great. If a young up and comer suits this teams needs better then so be it.

I would prefer someone though that could motivate players and help get quality coordinators into gameplan. Plus the good thing is when you have a Mike Smith or a Jim Harbraugh as your head coach you can be a little more liberal with your coordinators where as in Jim Zorn's situation we're pretty much F'd because despite the debacle we have on offense he's still the most qualified person to call plays.

[quote=GTripp0012;600070][B]Holmgren is probably a worse playcaller than Zorn [/B]is, at least based on his work with Seahawks teams. But this team doesn't need a genius playcaller, it needs a stronger leadership figure.[/quote]

Why do you say that?

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=Mattyk72;600069]Speaking of Gruden anyone else hear him today on NFL radio? He is so freaking funny. He really does have a bright career ahead of him in broadcasting. The stories he tells are just hilarious. He would be one of those guys I would love to have a beer with and just listen to his football stories.[/quote]He reminds me of Terry Bradshaw a little bit, but Terry when he's not being completely, over-the-top goofy.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600068]Well as of yesterday Gruden has said he's not interested. But a package Bruce Allen/Jon Gruden deal is intriguing. Though Gruden wears out his welcome with players rather easily, as I understand it.

I'm not sold on Shanahan as a GM. Not sold on Cowher as a GM. Don't know how I feel about Holmgren as a head coach (for the long term). None of the frequently mentioned candidates really appeal to me at this point.[/quote]

Did Gruden say he was not interested in coaching next year in general or specificaly the Redskins?

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600068]Well as of yesterday Gruden has said he's not interested. But a package Bruce Allen/Jon Gruden deal is intriguing. Though Gruden wears out his welcome with players rather easily, as I understand it.

I'm not sold on Shanahan as a GM. Not sold on Cowher as a GM. Don't know how I feel about Holmgren as a head coach (for the long term). None of the frequently mentioned candidates really appeal to me at this point.[/quote]

My feeling exactly. There's a reason Gruden and Billick are out of jobs. There are reasons that Cowher coached for over a decade before finally winning a SB. Remember, there were times when any team other than the Steelers would have canned him. As for Holmgren. He won a SB with a team Ron Wolf built and won a playoff game or two with teams he built...at best. Shanahan was basically the same. It's not like we're talking about perennial stud coaches here. They all bring with them some baggage or blemishes

Another issue here, looming, is the CBA situation. Not knowing how teams are going to be constructed in the future makes a lot of this talk a little presumptuous. Maybe in 2 years it'll be a free-for-all and all the money teams can sign every good player out there and buld true fantasy teams. Then how big a deal is a GM? Probably less important than now. But maybe not.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=celts32;600080]Did Gruden say he was not interested in coaching next year in general or specificaly the Redskins?[/quote]

Um, well the question was specifically about the Redskins

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600089]Um, well the question was specifically about the Redskins[/quote]

Oh Okay...I guess we can stop talking about him then. That Bruce Allen/Gruden combo was my top choice...oh well.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600068]Well as of yesterday Gruden has said he's not interested. But a package Bruce Allen/Jon Gruden deal is intriguing. Though Gruden wears out his welcome with players rather easily, as I understand it.

I'm not sold on Shanahan as a GM. Not sold on Cowher as a GM. Don't know how I feel about Holmgren as a head coach (for the long term). None of the frequently mentioned candidates really appeal to me at this point.[/quote]

Me too SS. Shanahan has not had the best track record as a GM. Then again, we are used to VC, so Shanahan may look like a genius to us. My problem with Cowher is, he has not been a GM before. He has been a terrific HC, but that does not necessarily transfer to GM skills. Holmgren, well, I need to think that over. Regardless, if the front office structure of Snyder/Cerrato remain as the decision making process, I think you can probably cross a line though Cowher, maybe even Shanahan.

Lookking at the selection of Zorn and the mess that was with Fassel, public relations wise, how can Snyder realistically go through a search again, while keeping Cerrato at the helm. Did not Cerrato say when he was promoted that he would not be ultimately accountable? Did I misunderstand that? So if we are firing Zorn because of a bad season, Zorn doesn't yield a winning record in two years, the roster is a big chunk of Cerrato and Zorn was Cerrato's hire, how does Snyder justify Cerrato staying.

You need not say, well, Snyder can do whatever he wants. I know that. And ultimately, he will. But if the Redskins continue to spiral down and attendance continues to spiral down while merchandise sales decrease, at some point, Snyder can not simply do what he wants, he will need to do something to save face.

By the way, I got another email today from Redskins.com telling me tickets in various areas are availabel for Sunday. Hmmmmm.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=celts32;600090]Oh Okay...I guess we can stop talking about him then. That Bruce Allen/Gruden combo was my top choice...oh well.[/quote]

Well it's only September. Minds can change

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=PennSkinsFan;600091]So if we are firing Zorn because of a bad season, Zorn doesn't yield a winning record in two years, the roster is a big chunk of Cerrato and Zorn was Cerrato's hire, [B]how does Snyder justify Cerrato staying.
[/B]
[/quote]

[YT]1G0sOA6hTg0[/YT]

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600068]Well as of yesterday Gruden has said he's not interested. But a package Bruce Allen/Jon Gruden deal is intriguing. Though Gruden wears out his welcome with players rather easily, as I understand it.

I'm not sold on Shanahan as a GM. Not sold on Cowher as a GM. Don't know how I feel about Holmgren as a head coach (for the long term). None of the frequently mentioned candidates really appeal to me at this point.[/quote]

I remember clearly, Marty saying he would NEVER work for Snyder on Sportscenter the November before he was hired as coach of the Skins. I thought that was hilarious, and proof of Snyder's ability to persuade (and while yes money plays a part, he also knows what a person wants to hear, like Blache and when Danny got him to stay as DC). If he really wants Gruden, I believe he would find a way to talk Chucky into it.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

Sorry this was nothing new and I heard about that conversation that took place on Thanksgiving sometime after the season last year when there was all this talk about if Zorn would get fired. Do people realize we do have 13 more games to plat this season? I'm sure glad I did not play on teams with some people here as quick as people have been to write off the whole season.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=firstdown;600101]Sorry this was nothing new and I heard about that conversation that took place on Thanksgiving sometime after the season last year when there was all this talk about if Zorn would get fired. Do people realize we do have 13 more games to plat this season? I'm sure glad I did not play on teams with some people here as quick as people have been to write off the whole season.[/quote]

i hear ya but under zorns control the skins are 3-8 over the last 11 games. how much longer do we wait? until it's 6-16.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

What do you guys think of Ron Rivera (currently SD defensive coordinator)? Maybe not as the head guy, but at least as the associate head coach -- defense?

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

I guess we should bring this song out of retirement.

[YT]IW-pcmIHH5Y[/YT]

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;599945]is Cowher out of the question. IF so why? What do you guys think we need the most. A Defensive or Offensive minded coach?[/quote]

Cowher was given 15 years to win a superbowl. Under Snider, only Gibbs has been given more than two.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;600125]I guess we should bring this song out of retirement.

[YT]IW-pcmIHH5Y[/YT][/quote]

hilarious!

IS Cruise available???


syke

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

between that " who the hell should I hire " and the Holmgren Peter King piece I'm already liking the idea of Holmgren.. howEVER there will be a mighty bad taste in my mouth of anything remotely close to Washington State ..

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;599921]Yeah but what about serving as both GM and coach? His last three years in that dual role the Seahawks had two losing seasons and missed the playoffs all three years.[/quote]
Nowadays it's too much of a job for most people, just coaches alone spend so much time working, then you're talking evaluating even more tape, etc. The coach needs to bring in a personnel guy.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600068]Well as of yesterday Gruden has said he's not interested. But a package Bruce Allen/Jon Gruden deal is intriguing. Though Gruden wears out his welcome with players rather easily, as I understand it.

I'm not sold on Shanahan as a GM. Not sold on Cowher as a GM. Don't know how I feel about Holmgren as a head coach (for the long term). None of the frequently mentioned candidates really appeal to me at this point.[/quote]
Does Cowher even want the dual role?

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=tryfuhl;600206]Does Cowher even want the dual role?[/quote]

I'm pretty sure he has said he would want control over the roster, but that can be kind of a vague statement

One name I'm surprised hasn't been rumored this time around is Steve Mariucci

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=FRPLG;600083]My feeling exactly. There's a reason Gruden and Billick are out of jobs. There are reasons that Cowher coached for over a decade before finally winning a SB. Remember, there were times when any team other than the Steelers would have canned him. As for Holmgren. He won a SB with a team Ron Wolf built and won a playoff game or two with teams he built...at best. Shanahan was basically the same. It's not like we're talking about perennial stud coaches here. They all bring with them some baggage or blemishes

Another issue here, looming, is the CBA situation. Not knowing how teams are going to be constructed in the future makes a lot of this talk a little presumptuous. Maybe in 2 years it'll be a free-for-all and all the money teams can sign every good player out there and buld true fantasy teams. Then how big a deal is a GM? Probably less important than now. But maybe not.[/quote]


It does seem as though we're getting a little ahead of ourselves. There are far too many things yet to consider before we engage in so much premature speculation. Maybe we need to just chill and let this situation take a course to where there is a clearer picture as to exactly what's going to happen with the current administration.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

Why does Russ Grimm get no consideraton?
I do not know that much about him other than his history asa player with the Skins. At one time, a couple of years ago, he was being mentioned for a number of spots around the league.........

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

I'm gonna throw a total wild card out there - Gregg Williams!

I know it's highly unlikely on the surface, but as previously mentioned, in 2001 no one thought there was any way Marty would end up in DC. I don't know his contract situation in NO either.

The only reason I throw his name out there is that in the danny's tenure, he has made some totally unexpected things happen, including the hiring of ALL his head coaches. And I really wish GW had gotten the job & kept AS as O coordinator.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=freddyg12;600261]I'm gonna throw a total wild card out there - Gregg Williams!

I know it's highly unlikely on the surface, but as previously mentioned, in 2001 no one thought there was any way Marty would end up in DC. I don't know his contract situation in NO either.

The only reason I throw his name out there is that in the danny's tenure, he has made some totally unexpected things happen, including the hiring of ALL his head coaches. And I really wish GW had gotten the job & kept AS as O coordinator.[/quote]

Gregg Williams, you mean the guy we should have hired after Gibbs stepped down? FIRE VINNY NOW

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=freddyg12;600261]I'm gonna throw a total wild card out there - Gregg Williams!

I know it's highly unlikely on the surface, but as previously mentioned, in 2001 no one thought there was any way Marty would end up in DC. I don't know his contract situation in NO either.

The only reason I throw his name out there is that in the danny's tenure, he has made some totally unexpected things happen, including the hiring of ALL his head coaches. And I really wish GW had gotten the job & kept AS as O coordinator.[/quote]

Considering he already got passed over I think it's pretty doubtful

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

The more I think about it the best thing Snyder could do is to bring Marty back and give him the the full control over everything. Although he does not have the super bowls like the other big names...what he does have is a resume that includes rebuilding 3 franchises from the ground up. And many of us believe the Redskins were going to be the 4th if Snyder had not pulled the plug. We hope Cohwer and Shanahan can do it in another city...we know Marty can.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600227]I'm pretty sure he has said he would want control over the roster, but that can be kind of a vague statement

One name I'm surprised hasn't been rumored this time around is Steve Mariucci[/quote]

Yeah, I can not picture Bill Cowher wanting to put his reputation on the lien with Snyder making personnel decisions. Would you? Just look at the last decade.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=Mattyk72;600272]Considering he already got passed over I think it's pretty doubtful[/quote]

agreed, it'd be like a Billy Martin/Steinbrenner reunion. I'm just saying that if indeed there is a coaching search, things may be so crazy in ashburn that DS & Vinny might even think of bringing GW back.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=wolfeskins;600115]i hear ya but under zorns control the skins are 3-8 over the last 11 games. how much longer do we wait? until it's 6-16.[/quote]
No we wait until the end of the year. I notice you pick how far to look back to support your point. Zorn is 9-10 as a head coach.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=firstdown;600315]No we wait until the end of the year. I notice you pick how far to look back to support your point. Zorn is 9-10 as a head coach.[/quote]

I was about to mention his nitpicking too.



"Fire Zorn, we're 0-1 in the last week! He hasn't won a game in October this year!"

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;600125]I guess we should bring this song out of retirement.

[YT]IW-pcmIHH5Y[/YT][/quote]

Since this is a Holmgren thread, I assumed you were thinking of this song...

[YT]bBRss3HUipw[/YT]

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

lol @ holmgreen being a walrus

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;599899]I wouldn't discount Cleveland and Buffalo as options for Holmgren.

Regardless, are we really that much better off with Holmgren as GM and head coach? I'm not sure I see that.

If anything maybe just bring him back as a GM or Team President.[/quote]
~~~~
I agree. I think Holmgren would be more effective as a GM or Team President at this point. I also think he is someone Snyder would listen to and respect.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600227]I'm pretty sure he has said he would want control over the roster, but that can be kind of a vague statement

One name I'm surprised hasn't been rumored this time around is Steve Mariucci[/quote]
I thought that last year when someone was talking to Cowher it was mentioned it wouldn't get done 1) timing and 2) cowher wants his own personnel guy and that team wasn't willing to do that.. I'm thinking that it was the Jets

I've only heard Mooch from fans.. no clue on his intentions and how far things got last year with that

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=tryfuhl;600654]I thought that last year when someone was talking to Cowher it was mentioned it wouldn't get done 1) timing and 2) cowher wants his own personnel guy and that team wasn't willing to do that.. I'm thinking that it was the Jets

I've only heard Mooch from fans.. no clue on his intentions and how far things got last year with that[/quote]

So Cowher would actually have someone high up scouting players for him and he would just have the final say on all personel decisions or would he essentially do almost everything himself?

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=tryfuhl;600654]I thought that last year when someone was talking to Cowher it was mentioned it wouldn't get done 1) timing and 2) cowher wants his own personnel guy and that team wasn't willing to do that.. I'm thinking that it was the Jets

I've only heard Mooch from fans.. no clue on his intentions and how far things got last year with that[/quote]

But speaking on Sirius NFL radio Monday, Schottenheimer said he was intrigued about serving in a Bill Parcells-type role with Bill Cowher if he decided to return to coaching.

[url=http://www.nfljuice.com/2008/12/09/schotts-and-cowher-in-cleveland/]Schotts and Cowher in Cleveland? | F Juice.com[/url]

And I'm sure I've seen Cowher say he'd be interested in that too

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600913]But speaking on Sirius NFL radio Monday, Schottenheimer said he was intrigued about serving in a Bill Parcells-type role with Bill Cowher if he decided to return to coaching.

[URL="http://www.nfljuice.com/2008/12/09/schotts-and-cowher-in-cleveland/"]Schotts and Cowher in Cleveland?*|*F Juice.com[/URL]

And I'm sure I've seen Cowher say he'd be interested in that too[/quote]

This might be intreging if our season continues down the current path. A hard nosed GM and a hard chinned...I mean nosed HC might straighten out the players looking for the free ride and ge them performing.

I found this under Cowher's Wiki:

[B][I]Cowher began his coaching career in 1985 at age 28 under [/I][/B][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Marty_Schottenheimer"][COLOR=#0000ff][B][I]Marty Schottenheimer[/I][/B][/COLOR][/URL][B][I] with the [/I][/B][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Cleveland_Browns"][COLOR=#0000ff][B][I]Cleveland Browns[/I][/B][/COLOR][/URL][B][I]. He was the Browns' special teams coach in 1985–86 and secondary coach in 1987–88 before following Schottenheimer to the [/I][/B][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Kansas_City_Chiefs"][COLOR=#0000ff][B][I]Kansas City Chiefs[/I][/B][/COLOR][/URL][B][I] in 1989 as defensive coordinator.[/I][/B]

Assuming we bring Marty in as GM and Cowher in as HC, could we steal or get Marty's son Brian from the Jets to be OC? Unless we give him some fansy name like Asst. HC could we even bring him on board unless his contract is up and if someone knows when that would be?

Then who do we bring in as DC?

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SBXVII;600918]This might be intreging if our season continues down the current path. A hard nosed GM and a hard chinned...I mean nosed HC might straighten out the players looking for the free ride and ge them performing.

I found this under Cowher's Wiki:

[B][I]Cowher began his coaching career in 1985 at age 28 under [/I][/B][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Marty_Schottenheimer"][COLOR=#0000ff][B][I]Marty Schottenheimer[/I][/B][/COLOR][/URL][B][I] with the [/I][/B][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Cleveland_Browns"][COLOR=#0000ff][B][I]Cleveland Browns[/I][/B][/COLOR][/URL][B][I]. He was the Browns' special teams coach in 1985–86 and secondary coach in 1987–88 before following Schottenheimer to the [/I][/B][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Kansas_City_Chiefs"][COLOR=#0000ff][B][I]Kansas City Chiefs[/I][/B][/COLOR][/URL][B][I] in 1989 as defensive coordinator.[/I][/B]

Assuming we bring Marty in as GM and Cowher in as HC, could we steal or get Marty's son Brian from the Jets to be OC? Unless we give him some fansy name like Asst. HC could we even bring him on board unless his contract is up and if someone knows when that would be?

Then who do we bring in as DC?[/quote]

Cowher didn't just coach for Marty. He played for him as a linebacker when Marty was the defensive coordinator in Cleveland in the early 80s.

Brian would have to be assistant head coach