Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;606991]I've seen majority runs from that formation that repetitive HB draw play mostly. I haven't seen both Cooley & Davis chip defenders then run out to receive the ball one or both stay in and block.[/quote]Yesterday they tried a TE delay cross at least twice, (still working on the review) that failed both times. But to your point, Zorn is not using the talents of Cooley and Davis or the mismatches they can create in both the run & passing game.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

"It's like deja-vu, all over again." Yogi Berra....maybe after this year we will get serious about the offensive line and get some players. The FO is such a freakin joke...I mean it is really laughable....Randy Thomas goes out, what? second week? Samuals is now out. Heyer has struggled. Rabach is very average. How come everybody can see why we went down last year the second half and we go out and Dock, which was a good move, but absolutely was not the biggest issue on the line last year. Very, very stupid. I really dont see an answer picking up anybody, just let our guys see if they can develop. So far not impressed by what I see. Hope JC got some goooooooood health insurance.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

If Samuels has spinal stenosis--which I have heard--he should shut it down for good. His best case scenario is to go to IR now and retire in the offseason. I think the Skins would get some cap relief as well if he retires--though I am not sure.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;607037]That is why i miss him i think they are a downgrade[/quote]
can't rebuild through just roster changes

you gotta actually develop them

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

Im sure DS will spend alot of money next year for a player that is not a lineman.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=NYCSkin;607089]If Samuels has spinal stenosis--which I have heard--he should shut it down for good. His best case scenario is to go to IR now and retire in the offseason. I think the Skins would get some cap relief as well if he retires--though I am not sure.[/quote]

When I read "neck injury" I had the same thought - he's done. He's got a few years left in him otherwise, but that injury doesn't sound like something to play with.

Great Redskin, great citizen, probably our player of the decade.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

Time to sign Marcus McNeil!

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=SmootSmack;607166]Time to sign Marcus McNeil![/quote]

um, he's on SD's active roster isn't he? I am confused. (PS, no clue about him, but looked him up on Wikipedia so what do i know)

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

I won't be surprised if we lay a goose egg this week. W/O Samuels the offense good only muster a field goal and Lord have mercy the Chiefs are gonna come out swingin to get their first win against a team that loves to oblige!

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

So who did Levi Jones kill that our team is unwilling to even look at him now that our old starting LT is out with an injury? Or any team for that matter.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;607169]um, he's on SD's active roster isn't he? I am confused. (PS, no clue about him, but looked him up on Wikipedia so what do i know)[/quote]

Well, I actually meant after the season is over as a free agent

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

The news just keeps getting better. :(

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;607057]The OL needed upgrading at the end of last year - - but it really did not get any. Adding Mike Williams and Jeremy Bridges (temporarily) was woefully insufficient.


What Danny Boy needs to do is to identify the people in the organization who thought the OL was good enough to be part of a championship contending team as it stood at the end of the 2008 season and get rid of all of them. [B]If they are coaches, fire them. [/B] If they are scouts/personnel people, fire them. If it is the nominal GM, fire him. If it is any of the various team consultants - on the payroll or just informal advisors - fire them.


If it is the owner himself, then fans need to learn to live with it...[/quote]That's a big part of the reason that I've been saying it's time for Buges to ride off into the sunset since last season.
Either he's doing a poor job evaluating talent or Vinny and The Little Man are still so convinced that he's still got enough of that 80's magic to turn any fat guy into a Hog. Either way, the O-line is killing this team and has been the Achilles's Heel for too long now so something needs to change.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=SmootSmack;607174]Well, I actually meant after the season is over as a free agent[/quote]

LOL ok, I gotcha now:)

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=SmootSmack;607174]Well, I actually meant after the season is over as a free agent[/quote]

[IMG]http://www.slimfilms.com/graphics2/16_moneytruck.jpg[/IMG]
We're going to need a bigger truck.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=Ruhskins;607173]So who did Levi Jones kill that our team is unwilling to even look at him now that our old starting LT is out with an injury? Or any team for that matter.[/quote]So we go out and re-sign Renaldo Wynn. What a meaningless move. We are void of quality depth on the O-line, our best O-lineman goes down, and we bring back a D-lineman???

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=SouperMeister;607200]So we go out and re-sign Renaldo Wynn. What a meaningless move. We are void of quality depth on the O-line, our best O-lineman goes down, and we bring back a D-lineman???[/quote]

Look if you can't see the logic in a brilliant move like that then there's nothing I can do to help you.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=SouperMeister;607200]So we go out and re-sign Renaldo Wynn. What a meaningless move. We are void of quality depth on the O-line, our best O-lineman goes down, and we bring back a D-lineman???[/quote]

Seriously, I feel really idiotic at the moment with all my defense of the FO on the Oline. I knew as well as everyone Samuels was going down at some point, and in my defense I called loud to bring in a solid back up LT, but I thought the rest of the line would hold up, I thought Heyer and Rinehart would establish themselves early on, leaving MW, WM, and EW as a solid young backup group. Clearly, the right side of the line needs more than what Heyer showed against the last 4 teams.

So VC ought to do the following moves right now:

1) Sign LJ, through what ever salary cap manipulations it takes
2) Beg Marcus Washington to come back and use him. Junior Seau signed for the Patriots, MW will come back if we ask.
3) Fire Stan Hixon (I don't care if he is the greatest WR coach in the world, we aren't cutting any of our receivers but someone has to pay!!!! ) (I also know this is a half-assed lame reason, but people have been fired for lesser cause)
4) Strip JZ of play calling. I don't care if it's what he wants to do, right now he can't get it done.

That would make me feel like the FO was actually watching the same games as I am.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;607213]Seriously, I feel really idiotic at the moment with all my defense of the FO on the Oline. I knew as well as everyone Samuels was going down at some point, and in my defense I called loud to bring in a solid back up LT, but I thought the rest of the line would hold up, I thought Heyer and Rinehart would establish themselves early on, leaving MW, WM, and EW as a solid young backup group. Clearly, the right side of the line needs more than what Heyer showed against the last 4 teams.

So VC ought to do the following moves right now:

1) Sign LJ, through what ever salary cap manipulations it takes
2) Beg Marcus Washington to come back and use him. Junior Seau signed for the Patriots, MW will come back if we ask.
3) Fire Stan Hixon (I don't care if he is the greatest WR coach in the world, we aren't cutting any of our receivers but someone has to pay!!!! ) (I also know this is a half-assed lame reason, but people have been fired for lesser cause)
4) Strip JZ of play calling. I don't care if it's what he wants to do, right now he can't get it done.

That would make me feel like the FO was actually watching the same games as I am.[/quote]

Nice post! All these would would be positive moves and likely have an immediate impact. But I think you're last sentence is sorta the crux of the whole thing...very little we see makes me believe the FO has a realistic picture of the team. For the second consecutive season the Skins oline will be one of the worst in professional football...arguably the worst overall. Aging talent, mediocre youth and crappy depth. Signing an olineman would be like admitting a mistake and if there's one thing lil Danny and Vinny are renowned for it is their unparalleled egos...always the smartest guys in the room!!!

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=The Goat;607221]Nice post! All these would would be positive moves and likely have an immediate impact. But I think you're last sentence is sorta the crux of the whole thing...[B]very little we see makes me believe the FO has a realistic picture of the team[/B]. For the second consecutive season the Skins oline will be one of the worst in professional football...arguably the worst overall. Aging talent, mediocre youth and crappy depth. Signing an olineman would be like admitting a mistake and if there's one thing lil Danny and Vinny are renowned for it is their unparalleled egos...always the smartest guys in the room!!![/quote]Amen!!! Snder is constantly running this team as if we're a player or two from championship caliber, when in reality, there are NUMEROUS holes to fill. We need front office with the patience to stockpile draft picks which can be used to fill holes and add cheap, quality depth. NE and Philly are masters at this. Snyderato insists that we have a plan. At what point will the FO admit that the plan is a bust? If they bring in Shanahan, or another big name, I want that coach to have FINAL say on all personnel matters since it's apparent that The Danny will never concede that he screwed up by not hiring a competent GM.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=freddyg12;607161]When I read "neck injury" I had the same thought - he's done. He's got a few years left in him otherwise, but that injury doesn't sound like something to play with.

[B]Great Redskin, great citizen, probably our player of the decade[/B].[/quote]A true professional. Samuels may have been one of the more underappreciated Redskins, but wait to see how ugly our O-line play becomes - this offense is doomed to 6 to 10 points per game without him. If this is it, thanks Chris for a great career - you were a "True Redskin" and would have fit in well with the champions of Gibbs 1.0.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=SouperMeister;607233]A true professional. Samuels may have been one of the more underappreciated Redskins, but wait to see how ugly our O-line play becomes - this offense is doomed to 6 to 10 points per game without him. If this is it, thanks Chris for a great career - you were a "True Redskin" and would have fit in well with the champions of Gibbs 1.0.[/quote]

Well said...Samuels deserves his props and I really don't think he should risk any serious longterm injury by playing longer. That said, I'll be surprised if we win 4 games all season w/o him in the lineup, assuming lil Danny is too proud to go out and sign more OL talent. I think it's a 4-12 or maybe 5-11 season.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=The Goat;607243]Well said...Samuels deserves his props and I really don't think he should risk any serious longterm injury by playing longer. That said, I'll be surprised if we win 4 games all season w/o him in the lineup, assuming lil Danny is too proud to go out and sign more OL talent. I think it's a 4-12 or maybe 5-11 season.[/quote]I think it's 7 or 8 wins still, not that it makes a difference. The offense isn't quite as inept as 2004, but it's reaching those levels. We won 5 games in 2006, and this defense, maligned as it is, is a lot better at every level than the 2006 defense.

By the end of the year, I think our offense will be closer to levels we have come to previously expect than the disaster of 2004. And consequently, I don't think this team is quite as bad as either 2004 or 2006. But the final product will be below average.

It's worth noting that we lost to Carolina because of two major special teams f-ups and overall we're probably between the 20th and 23rd best teams in the league. Not awful, but a significant step back from the mediocrity of the last two seasons.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

This is something that needed to happen, as ugly as it is. If we're going to be stuck with Pinky and the Brian then we might as well hammer into their head how important the O-Line is through negative reinforcement.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;607213]Seriously, I feel really idiotic at the moment with all my defense of the FO on the Oline. I knew as well as everyone Samuels was going down at some point, and in my defense I called loud to bring in a solid back up LT, but I thought the rest of the line would hold up, I thought Heyer and Rinehart would establish themselves early on, leaving MW, WM, and EW as a solid young backup group. Clearly, the right side of the line needs more than what Heyer showed against the last 4 teams.

So VC ought to do the following moves right now:

1) Sign LJ, through what ever salary cap manipulations it takes
2) Beg Marcus Washington to come back and use him. Junior Seau signed for the Patriots, MW will come back if we ask.
3) Fire Stan Hixon (I don't care if he is the greatest WR coach in the world, we aren't cutting any of our receivers but someone has to pay!!!! ) (I also know this is a half-assed lame reason, but people have been fired for lesser cause)
4) Strip JZ of play calling. I don't care if it's what he wants to do, right now he can't get it done.

That would make me feel like the FO was actually watching the same games as I am.[/quote]

By golly man. I think that would work! We've needed at least a good back-up LT for a couple of years. Marcus is missed, not only his play but his enthusiasm. Orakpo is a DE..that's where he should play. Stan Hixon....whatever, he won't be missed. In fact, are we sure he's even still here? Zorn has never been an OC and he has too many other responsibilities to be learning on the job right now. Sounds like a plan C!

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=53Fan;607270]By golly man. I think that would work! We've needed at least a good back-up LT for a couple of years. Marcus is missed, not only his play but his enthusiasm. Orakpo is a DE..that's where he should play. Stan Hixon....whatever, he won't be missed. In fact, are we sure he's even still here? Zorn has never been an OC and he has too many other responsibilities to be learning on the job right now. Sounds like a plan C![/quote]

I am emailing it to Sherm today ;) (which Sherm though that's a toughie)

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

I go back to keeping Williams/Batiste and letting Bridges go. Buges messed up big time on that and here we are looking at our awful O-line depth.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=vallin21;607280]I go back to keeping Williams/Batiste and letting Bridges go. Buges messed up big time on that and here we are looking at our awful O-line depth.[/quote]

See, I don't have a problem with that per se. We kept youth, I don't see Bridges lighting up the world in Arizona (course I haven't watched so he could be). No one we were looking at would replace the Chris Samuels that was a probowl player.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;607562]See, I don't have a problem with that per se. We kept youth, I don't see Bridges lighting up the world in Arizona (course I haven't watched so he could be). No one we were looking at would replace the Chris Samuels that was a probowl player.[/quote]

Well we could have selected Michael Oher over Orakpo. Which position was a greater need SLB or RT/LT? We thought defense need a pass rusher was more important which it is but he doesnt rush every down. Put Rak on the D-Line.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=skins89moss;607573]Well we could have selected Michael Oher over Orakpo. Which position was a greater need SLB or RT/LT? We thought defense need a pass rusher was more important which it is but he doesnt rush every down. Put Rak on the D-Line.[/quote]

And I would have been fine with Oher, my fear (past tense) would have been if Orakpo had not been there then we still would have passed on Oher.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

Anyone see how the Dolphins moved the pocket around to avoid the pass rush? The commentators on SportsCenter even pointed it out in the highlights this morning. There are ways to scheme against the pass rush when your O-line ain't getting it done.

Screens, bootlegs, draws (RB and QB draws), Wildcat, etc. If we had competent coaching, we could at least compensate a little for the injuries across the O line.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=44Deezel;607579]Anyone see how the Dolphins moved the pocket around to avoid the pass rush? The commentators on SportsCenter even pointed it out in the highlights this morning. There are ways to scheme against the pass rush when your O-line ain't getting it done.

Screens, bootlegs, draws (RB and QB draws), Wildcat, etc. If we had competent coaching, we could at least compensate a little for the injuries across the O line.[/quote]

I was watching that too last night. What it made me think of was that stretch run play in which we gave up a safety. I wonder how good our O line would be at moving the pocket laterally? I'm thinking not so good.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

Yeah big boi williams wouldnt be so great moving across the line like that

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

44 Deezel:

What the Dolphins' O-Line did last night was to take the Jets' defense and smash them in the mouth and push them back off the ball several yards on most plays. That is why the Dolphins were successful in running the ball and protecting the passer and running the wildcat.

Coaching can just do so much; you need players on the OL who can come off the ball and drive defenders back three or four or five yards more than once in a drive.

Here is a clue: The Skins OL cannot do that reliably. They could not do that reliably last year either. Two seasons ago, they could not do that reliably. There is a trend there if you look carefully.

Can the coaching for the Redskins be improved? You bet it can. But don't delude yourself into believing that the Skins' OL is actually a bunch of All-Pro Players who are shackeled into mediocrity by stupid coaches. The Skins' OL is actually mediocre and nothing better. AND the logical conclusion from that situation is that the guys on the bench are something less than mediocre.

Look at the Skins OL now position by position and do an honest evaluation:
[INDENT]Which Redskins' starting offensive lineman is better at his position then the three guys who start for the other teams in the NFC East?[/INDENT]
Here's a hint:

None of them...

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

Someone sent this to me today:

[url=http://www.prlog.org/10374594-neck-stinger-look-at-the-injury-keeping-chris-samuels-out-against-the-kansas-city-chiefs.html]Neck Stinger: A Look at the Injury Keeping Chris Samuels Out Against the Kansas City Chiefs[/url]

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

Our front office has made some brilliant moves over the last 10 years and the Giants, Iggles, and Cowboys appreciate every one of them. Portis looks old and slow so he's probably set for another 6 years as the Skins' primary running back.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=Mattyk72;607958]Someone sent this to me today:

[url=http://www.prlog.org/10374594-neck-stinger-look-at-the-injury-keeping-chris-samuels-out-against-the-kansas-city-chiefs.html]Neck Stinger: A Look at the Injury Keeping Chris Samuels Out Against the Kansas City Chiefs[/url][/quote]

I know that Samuels said it scared him. He said he had to talk to doctors before " he decided what to do". I don't like the sound of that.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

[quote=53Fan;608038]I know that Samuels said it scared him. He said he had to talk to doctors before " he decided what to do". I don't like the sound of that.[/quote]
Yeah, I just heard that. Sounds like he is talking retiring. If that is true, If I was Jim I would quit now.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

I don't think anyone could blame him if he is considering hanging it up. He's had a heck of a career. Nothing left to prove.

Re: Samuels Out Next Week
 

Everyone keeps talking about a RT that we've needed.. yeah, but to get trained up to take over the LT spot eventually. Samuels isn't what he used to be and I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see a healthy season from him again. We have to think of BOTH tackles ASAP.