Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

Thanks, Pain.
From a personnel standpoint I think we are closer to the Giants than the Raiders. I really only see one problem with the Skins this year but it trickles into every facet of the team.
There is no identity.
Who are the Redskins? Tough D and conservative offense one week and heaving 50 yd incompletions the next. The D gets big TO's now (something that has been missing for a long time) and when we play dink and dunk we win close games. Then comes the bitching about how horrible the offense is. So the coaches (whom I firmly believe care more about making fans happy than winning) the next week throw it all over the field.
I think that this season can be saved if management gives Zorn a public guarantee that he will be the HC for the full season (as the players seem to want) and that he will only be evaluated in the offseason. Maybe then Zorn will develop his offensive identity and stick with it for the next 11 games.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=Paintrain;608570]On the contrary, I've seen every play of every game, watch WaPo Live almost every night and read the WaPo online first thing every morning. I just don't see the point in being even MORE miserable by bemoaning each and every thing and further tearing down players and the team. If I wanted that I'd spend my time over at ES. Hell, I know it's a futile exercise but I wanted to try SOMETHING positive around here.[/quote]

Sound like a great message to send to the media as well. In this area, no one seems to focus on the negative more than the local media, the frustration is now being shown by the players as well. This is all a result of not winning games, if the ship is ever righted you will see a change, if not expect more of the same because it's not going to go away.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=Paintrain;608563]DAMN! This place is bordering on taking an "[I]Extreme[/I]-"ist tone recently. You can peek into any thread and read about cutting everyone, firing everyone, blowing it all up, etc., etc., etc. I've been guilty of it too but tonight I'm saying [B][I][U]enough.[/U][/I][/B]
[/quote]

It's been like this since I have been a member back in the Ramsey/Coles/Gardner days. :D

Pessimism seems to infect most Skins fans.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

Good thread. But while I appreciate the attempts by some to stay positive, I can't help but feel we have a disaster of a season on our hands.

We've struggled with the bottom feeders of the league so far, just wait til we hit the real meat of the schedule (especially with no Samuels).

At this point I really think we're looking at a top 5 pick for next year. And this isn't a knee-jerk thought process I've got here, my optimism has been on a gradual decline all year.

This simply is not a good team fellas. And the double whammy is it's not well coached either. I'm not trying to be negative, it's just my honest assessment.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=djnemo65;608649]Obvious joking aside, you are talking about the mother of all free agency splurges as the solution to this team's problems? Sorry, but that does not prop up any sky for me. And just because Paintrain presented a case for optimism does not mean we have to accept it. If we are being optimistic just to goof around and feel better, reality be damned, Tryfuhl's 13-3 thread was a perfectly fine space for that. Otherwise we still have to debate the points raised right? I don't see how that constitutes a bitch session.[/quote]Joking aside, here's the reality. We will not be successful this season, no chance at the playoffs. However, we have some good players to build around and can right the ship fairly quickly (for 2010 & beyind) if the correct moves are made for the rest of this season, and in the off-season. Tryfuhl's point about player evaluation being all that matters at this point is spot-on.

We need a GM, the Wilbon article was very good the other day and he identified 5 quality GM candidates. Snyder should get one of these guys ASAP, again I don't know the rules or protocol surrounding bringing in a GM mid-season, but if it's possible it should be done immediately. Will Snyder do that, based on the article rumoring Gruden, it sounds like No.

If DS fires Zorn at the Bye week, which I suspect, Gray should be named interim coach and hopefully Sherm Lewis will call the O for the remainder of the season.

Here's how I see our personnel, keep in mind I'm assuming an uncapped year in 2010:
RDE - Orakpo, difference maker for 10+ years
RDT - Haynesworth - Pro Bowl DT for at least 3 more years
LDT - Griff / Golston / Alexander - solid to average players, decent rotation.
LDE - Jarmon, first look seems to be a great use of next year's 3rd rounder. Could solidify LDE for 10+ years
Carter can be kept for DE/LB depth or released freeing up a good chunk of $$$
Fletcher - Pro Bowl caliber MLB, probably this year and one more left.
McIntosh - knees appear to be recovered, solid WLB
Wilson, Blades - average LB backups
SAM - must be addressed in off-season by draft or FA
CB - Rogers good cover CB with poor hands/ball skills. Good in run support. Overall a solid CB who will get beat at times making plays on the ball.
CB - Hall, great hands, makes mistakes, poor in run support. Always seems to be at the right place at the right time to get a pick. Overall a guy who will make plays, but will cost you too. Overpaid, but an average overall CB.
CB depth - Tryon looks to be stepping up as a good nickel guy, Barnes appears to have the tools to be a #1 or #2 CB, he just needs to get on the field.
S - we are solid here with good young talent

K- Suisham, solid so far this year
P - Hunter Smith - good punter

LT - Samuels, if he comes back this year likely only has one or two productive years as a backup/mentor to the young guys. This position should be our first pick in the draft unless Clausen is available.
LG - Dock, average but makes mistakes. We need an upgrade here but Dock is not horrible.
C - Rabach, serviceable but I would like to see Monty at C the rest of the way to see if he can win the position going forward. Rabach would be good depth.
RG - Rinehart, I don't agree with him being benched if it's not an injury issue. What I've seen so far is that he's been solid and improving. He needs to be on the field and should develop into a starting RG.
RT - Heyer has been solid overall. He and Rinehart can develop into a good right side, if allowed to stay on the field together and develop chemistry.
TE - Cooley, Davis - TE is not an issue for several years
FB - Sellers isn't playing at a Pro Bowl level, but not terrible either. He's been solid, he just doesn't pick up the inside quick enough on the Stretch play. FB isn't making or breaking the team.
RB - Portis is still a solid RB, just a straight ahead guy without that extra-gear. In an uncapped year he may stay at $ 10M / yr. If not, this needs to be addressed in the off-season.
QB - JC isn't the answer to take us deep into the playoffs without a dominant defense and run game. He won't win games with his arm alone. Can he be a solid, but unspectacular QB? That needs to be figured out within the next few games, if he plays like he did against the Lions/Bucs, he's gone. Zorn, or whoever is calling the plays after the Bye, needs to put him in situations to either make a play or fail. Let him earn his new contract or lose it by his play, don't protect him with playcalling. My gut feel based on what I've seen over the last three weeks is that JC won't progress and QB will need to be addressed. Problem is other than Clausen or Bradford in the 2010 draft, there aren't any potential solutions I see other than taking a look at Quinn or Woodson.

Our immediate needs this off-season: QB, LT, SAM
This is not the "mother of all FA splurges". If there are solid FAs that can fill holes, we don't need to worry about cap issues from contracts of older/unproductive players holding us back from bringing guys in.

In the short term (the rest of the season) the outlook is bleak. Long term I think the outlook is much brighter if Snyderatto makes the correct decisions. Will that happen.....that's a whole different thread.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=Mattyk72;608813]Good thread. But while I appreciate the attempts by some to stay positive, I can't help but feel we have a disaster of a season on our hands.

We've struggled with the bottom feeders of the league so far, just wait til we hit the real meat of the schedule (especially with no Samuels).

At this point I really think we're looking at a top 5 pick for next year. And this isn't a knee-jerk thought process I've got here, my optimism has been on a gradual decline all year.

This simply is not a good team fellas. And the double whammy is it's not well coached either. I'm not trying to be negative, it's just my honest assessment.[/quote]
Agreed, my assessment and expectations have gone from pre-season of 10-6 to we'll be VERY fortunate to reach 6-10. I don't feel however that as a result of that every thread needs to become a bitch and moan session where everyone and their mama is getting ripped.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

Great thread.

I feel maxed out on negativity. This is lowest I've ever experienced as a Redskins fan in a loooooong time. I feel like we've hit bottom though. I can dust myself off, look around and see that I'm okay. I'm not here with all the same people I started with... but I'm still a Redskins fan. I have not torn down the redskins paraphernalia.

I'm hoping we're able to discover some line depth, and see what kind of action our offense can generate. I'm hoping the FO acts on what the players are calling for, and we ease up this slippery ass slope...and at least not fall as fast.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=djnemo65;608580]What I think is so frustrating to people is not so much the collapse of a season but the collapse of an era. This year is shot but there is no reason to believe we'll be able to contend for several years. [B]What we are seeing is the final dissolution of a team that first started to come together with the Portis trade, the Griffin, Washington, and Springs free agent signings, and the addition of several other key players through the Gibbs years: the core Redskins. [/B]It's busted and we are (hopefully) going to be starting over from scratch next year with one playoff win and only a few key young players to show for it.

In today's NFL, there is absolutely no reason for teams to lose for prolonged periods, with the salary cap and draft structured to punish winning and award losing to an extent. Throw in the tremendous monetary advantage the Skins enjoy and you have a team that, at the very least, should be above average over any 5-10 year period. But here we are, in exactly the same position we were in when Spurrier split, with a team falling apart, lacking discipline, lacking leaders, lacking any sense of direction or purpose. And we have precisely one playoff win to show for it.

This is a tough pill to swallow and it's not so suprising to me that the angst is starting to bubble over. But doesn't it make us all feel better to come here and commiserate? The most awesomest Shakespeare play King Lear talks about such shared grief quite well.

When we our betters see bearing our woes,
We scarcely think our miseries our foes.
Who alone suffers suffers most i' the mind,
Leaving free things and happy shows behind:
But then the mind much sufferance doth o'er skip,
When grief hath mates, and bearing fellowship.
How light and portable my pain seems now,
When that which makes me bend makes the king bow,[/quote]

Wow. Nicely done. An eloquent post. If we can't come together in tough times, what the else are we supposed to do?

The bolded part is something I've been saying for awhile -- "our core" is done. The window for those guys is getting slammed shut. And the younger guys brought in after the 2006 season aren't producing either. We are headed for a 1993-1994 type era when the old guard starts to drop off and a true rebuilding mode has to begin.

Right or wrong, Gibbs tossed aside building a foundation for the future for a 'win right now' philosophy. The problem with that is, if that plan doesn't come together, and the high-priced free agents who eat up cap space and cost you draft picks don't get you in position for a shot at a championship, your team gets set back for years. That's where we are right now.

The next half of the season is going to send this team over the edge, and it's not going to be competitive.

But hey, at least we have each other...:food-smil

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=Paintrain;608582]Two quick points. There's no reason we should flail for years to come after this season. [B]We've got a very good defensive base for the next few years. [/B] If we re-sign (or find suitable replacements for) Rogers and McIntosh to combine with Haynesworth, Hall, Orakpo and Jarmon we're going to be ok on defense.

For as terrible as the offense has been, Moss and Cooley are two weapons most teams would love to have. I am interested to see what a new staff does with Thomas/Kelly. The O-line needs to be remade and we are probably looking at a new backfield but the cupboard is nowhere near as bare as the Spurrier era.[/quote]

See, I'm not even sure we have that. All along, we've been led to believe that apart from all our failings, at least we have our D. Guess what? That's been sub-par, and the upcoming opponents are going to shred us alive.

Haynesworth was supposed to open things up for a jail-break type pass rush, and it just hasn't materialized. And how is it that adding a guy like Haynesworth has marked the [I]decline[/I] of our run-stopping abilities? That just doesn't make sense. Until you realize that Cornelius Griffin is winding down, and that Golston and Montgomery aren't as good as we thought. Defensive end, finally, looks to be in relatively good shape if Jarmon, Orakpo, and Wilson are as good as advertised.

Then we've got a transition period approaching with linebackers -- Orakpo doesn't belong there, Fletcher is nearing the twilight of his career, and behind that you have ... Rocky McIntosh and H.B. Blades ?? Not good.

All along I suspected that we may have a problem in the secondary, and so far I've been right. Rogers is probably gone, Smoot needs to retire and DeAngelo Hall isn't going to form much of an intimidating cornerback tandem.

So in reality, we've got good safeties and a few good DEs -- we hope anyway. There's work to be done on the defensive side too.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=Mattyk72;608813]Good thread. But while I appreciate the attempts by some to stay positive, I can't help but feel we have a disaster of a season on our hands. .[/quote]

When I saw you go neg I knew the board as a whole were likely on the same ship.. I was definitely

I'll still be there every week though, kind of a shame, but hey, it's just 3 hours a week, I spend that on more stupid stuff

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

The negativity will go away after we beat KC and Philly. :cool-smil

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=53Fan;609107]The negativity will go away after we beat KC and Philly. :cool-smil[/quote]
by under 5 points

probably not