Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=GMScud;609205]That was a good read. It sickens me to think of the success we've been missing out on over the last decade. If we could only match up a solid GM with Snyder's willingness to spend and desire to win....

It's pretty amazing that someone who supposedly wants to win more than anything just can't get out of his own way.[/quote]
Sometimes it takes a team or business to almost fall apart before the boss or owner can see how flawed their thinking really is.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;609339]No sir! A owner should never listen to his players, except in things that don't envolve the game. If Rocky McIntosh wants to do some kind of "feed the children" program, that's something else. The owner should go to the GM, see what's going on, and trust his assessment of the situation. If the players are going to fraternize with the ownership, then there's no use in having a GM or a coaching staff. That's one of the big problems with this organization to begin with.[/quote]

yup, simple chain of command. This is one thing DS can really be faulted for; playing chess w/Lavar, hangin w/Portis. I even remember a reporter saying that after a game Bruce Smith went to the danny in the locker room to complain about his lack of playing time.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=Defensewins;609324]Correct me if I am wrong, but prior last week it seemed like most the blame fingers were pointed at the players and Zorn. There seemed to be less blame given to the FO, until last week. [B]I am not trying to absolve anyone or try to lay more blame on any given group, I am just saying the players may have spoken up to try and even out the blame[/B][B].[/B][/quote]

Blame the FO for what? For hiring a bad coach and selecting poor players?

By saying that the owner and the FO have failed, these players are, in effect, adding to the blame being heaped on the coach and players. Do you get my point?

Now, I assume that Rogers and Hall think they're two of the good players - not like those other guys, their teammates. Well, what did they do when they had the opportunity to make huge plays for this team? They failed to do so is the correct answer.

Carlos "Hands of Stone" Rogers has had several opportunities to make huge interceptions this season but he didn't. What would it have meant to the team if Rogers had caught the Manning pass that hit him in the hands on the Redskins first defensive series of this season?

And don't forget all of his drops during the previous season. Why didn't that motivate him to improve his ball skills? I wonder how many passes he caught during the off-season, if any? People who live in glass houses...

Then there's Hall who has made some big plays but failed to stay at home on a naked bootleg or tackle a slow QB short of the first down on a play that could have clinched the game at Carolina. Hall looked like a mom trying to keep her toddler off the escalator at the mall. Delhomme won that battle (not that Hall put up much of a fight) because he wanted it more than Hall wanted it. If you don't think that was a soft play, just try to imagine what Sean Taylor would have done to Delhomme in that situation. People who live in glass houses...

How do you think their comments went over with their teammates? I think not well.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=freddyg12;609346]yup, simple chain of command. This is one thing DS can really be faulted for; playing chess w/Lavar, hangin w/Portis. I even remember a reporter saying that after a game Bruce Smith went to the danny in the locker room to complain about his lack of playing time.[/quote]

Bruce Smith did worse than go to Dan Snyder, he (and Fred Drasner) used to go to Snyder's father and had Snyder's father berate Dan Snyder for not seeing to it that Smith got more playing time

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=irish;609327]I agree. If they want Zorn to stay on as their coach dont talk about winning, do it. If they win everything will work out just fine. The problem is these players appear to be much better at talking about what they need to do than actually doing it.[/quote]

I have embraced your same thought process for some time now. It gradually becomes unbearable to hear basically the same players week-in and week-out come on post game interviews saying we're not doing this, not doing that but never correct what it is they're not doing.

I've come to the conclusion maybe too much was expected from a team we've all admitted from time to time was deficient in areas neccessary to bring about the desired result. We've been forced to rely on back-up players with both limited experience as well as abilities to play vital positions of what needs to be strength if you expect to be successful. Back-up players in football are equvalent to relief pitchers in baseball, they only have so many plays in them, savor a difference and they would be starters. It's just not reasonable to think there won't be considerable drop-off when having to resort to back-up players.

Should Snyder listen to his players? For me there are many ways to look at that question without coming up with what I would consider a definative answer. I think one should always listen, it's just a matter of how much credence he should gives to what he's listening too.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;609354]Bruce Smith did worse than go to Dan Snyder, he (and Fred Drasner) used to go to Snyder's father and had Snyder's father berate Dan Snyder for not seeing to it that Smith got more playing time[/quote]

Are you kidding Smoot? This sounds so unprofessional and Mickey Mouse it's not even funny. :doh:

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;609354]Bruce Smith did worse than go to Dan Snyder, he (and Fred Drasner) used to go to Snyder's father and had Snyder's father berate Dan Snyder for not seeing to it that Smith got more playing time[/quote]

You've got to be kidding me. Ugh. Deep, deep dysfunction.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=53Fan;609367]Are you kidding Smoot? This sounds so unprofessional and Mickey Mouse it's not even funny. :doh:[/quote]

Sometimes some players gather the wrong impression by thinking they're friendly with the owner...Bruce Smith, LaVar Arrington and now Clinton Portis. I'm always mindful of that old saying "If you play with a puppy he'll lick you in the face".

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[QUOTE=Longtimefan;609391]Sometimes some players gather the wrong impression by thinking they're friendly with the owner...Bruce Smith, LaVar Arrington and now Clinton Portis. I'm always mindful of that old saying "If you [B]play with a puppy he'll lick you in the face".[/[/B]QUOTE]

......or pee on your leg. Either way, he needs to act more like an owner than a fan. It is possible to be both but seperate the two.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=53Fan;609367]Are you kidding Smoot? This sounds so unprofessional and Mickey Mouse it's not even funny. :doh:[/quote]

Not kidding. I mean I'm not around the team much anymore, but I was there a lot from 1998-2002 and Snyder is much better off with Dwight Schar and Fred Smith (especially Schar as I understand it) because he had a very weak ownership group surrounding him when he first took ownership (and part of it was that he simply had to, these were the guys with money).

I mean I didn't really encounter Gerald Snyder much. He definitely had a close connection to certain players, especially Smith. Drasner, on the other hand, all he cared about was the star power of surrounding himself with NFL players. He was the brash one really.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

Whatever happened to Drasner?

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

i'm taking a sign to the eagles game that says "WE BLAME THE FRONT OFFICE!"

thats that. F#*& Vinny and Danny.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

It's the combination of Snyder and Cerrato that is ruining the Redskins, not solely Snyder. He's willing to spend money and give the coaches what they want. Too much credit is given Gibbs II for contributions he made (I'm not arguing about Gibbs I) or things he messed up. He traded for Brunell, let Ryan Clark go, traded for the WR from SF and gave up 2 high draft picks for him, plus traded for TJ Duckett, a move that alienated Portis's backups (I believe he gave up a 3rd round draft choice for Duckett). Those draft choices could've been used to draft offensive linemen.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

LaVar Arrington was drafted by the Redskiins, not signed as a free agent away from another team. So I view him as a special kind of player because hou could see him make plays that won games. I'm tired of listening to Portis who has done more to undermine the current coaching staff than even Vinny!

What about Sonny Jurgensen and John Riggins criticizing Zorn's coaching and not changing QBs? I was so far in Zorn's corner at the start of this season he should've been paying me, but now I've gone directly to the other corner and know now that Zorn must go, and the sooner the better. I agree with Sonny and Riggo: Zorn should've changed QBs by now, and his playcalling might have worked at the first half of last year, but the last 8 games plus the first 5 games of this season show Zorn has a flawed mentality for calling offensive plays for NFL games.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

Coaches should not listen to fans. When they do, they will usually wind up getting fired.


Owners should not listen to players. A football team is not a democracy nor does it lend itself to a particpative form of managment.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

IMO, listening tot he players would be better than, ummm, listening to Vinny Cerrato.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[url=http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/33293450/ns/sports-nfl/]Powell: Can an owner be fired? ’Skins fans can hope - NFL- nbcsports.msnbc.com[/url]

This is an article on Snyder. We are so stuck with this guy and he is only 44. Yikes!

He is a pariah!

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

I’ll be honest because I hate seeing it happen there. I will always be biased toward that organization and toward Dan. I played for a number of teams in the league, but I still view myself as a Redskin of sorts. But right now, can it be fixed without Snyder relinquishing some of his power?

And that’s what I’m really asking you, Mr. Snyder, because that’s what I’m hearing from Redskins fans. And now you’re hearing it from me, one of your former players.

==

good stuff

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;609288]
I say to the Redskins players, if you really want to keep Jim Zorn as your coach, then come out with a purpose on Sunday and blow out the KC Chiefs.[/quote]
Exactly, I don't care if Zorn ISN'T there and there's nobody to replace him, do what you can 100%

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

why do the players love Zorn? I get the comradarie...but losing is losing...how can you endorse someone who isn't winning...nor are his offensive plays resulting in lots of points? I'm totally confused. I can't really blame Rogers for what he said either...kind of true.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=tootergray34;609554]why do the players love Zorn? I get the comradarie...but losing is losing...how can you endorse someone who isn't winning...nor are his offensive plays resulting in lots of points? I'm totally confused. I can't really blame Rogers for what he said either...kind of true.[/quote]

Maybe they blame themselves for losing, not Zorn.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

I think the players are asking for leadership from the FO and I don't fault them for that. They want to know if Zorn is going to be at the end of the season and if not bring in somebody now.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

I could personally give a rats ass whether he's a nice guy or not. I want an owner who will hire the people that know football and this owner doesn't know football. He's had 10 years to right the ship and he still doesn't get it and probably never will.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=MdBluefinCrab;609594]I could personally give a rats ass whether he's a nice guy or not. I want an owner who will hire the people that know football and this owner doesn't know football. [B]He's had 10 years to right the ship and he still doesn't get it and probably never will[/B][B].[/B][/quote]

This is the thing that eats at the spirit of Redskins fans. We just don't want to face the possibility that Dan Snyder may never get it and that he may never change the way he is currently running the Redskins.

It seems to many reasonable Redskins fans that it is a virtual certainty that Dan Snyder, who is an intelligent businessman, will one day realize that he has been going about things the wrong way and make changes for the better. Actually, that is more of a belief, an article of faith, among Redskins fans.

On the other hand, it's difficult for many Redskins fans to comprehend and accept that Snyder may never change. It's just too depressing for Redskins fans to think that they could be facing season after season of disappointment under his ownership. Nevertheless, some fans are starting to believe that this might be as good as it gets.

Personally, I'm still hoping that Dan Snyder will hire a highly-qualified GM and take a more hands-off approach, leading to success on the field.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;609646]This is the thing that eats at the spirit of Redskins fans. We just don't want to face the possibility that Dan Snyder may never get it and that he may never change the way he is currently running the Redskins.

It seems uneasonable to most of us that Dan Snyder, who is an intelligent businessman, will not one day realize that he has been going about things the wrong way. On the other hand, it's just as hard for us to comprehend that he may never change. Nevertheless, some of us are starting to realize that this might be as good as it gets.[/quote]

I think the funny thing is that a lot of fans are thinking just like Dan Snyder. Your run of the mill fan probably thinks we just need a good QB and thinks things will be fine. They are unwilling to go through losing seasons for the sake of rebuilding (like Baltimore, Atlanta, and maybe San Fran). I also think the sports media in this town has better business reporting the follies of this team and their ownership, than actually challenging the decision made by the team.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

What are you doing up at this hour, Ruhskins?

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=tryfuhl;609534]I’ll be honest because I hate seeing it happen there. I will always be biased toward that organization and toward Dan. [B]I played for a number of teams in the league, but I still view myself as a Redskin of sorts.[/B] But right now, can it be fixed without Snyder relinquishing some of his power?

And that’s what I’m really asking you, Mr. Snyder, because that’s what I’m hearing from Redskins fans. And now you’re hearing it from me, one of your former players.

==

good stuff[/quote]

You played for teams in the NFL?...on the field?

Am I being gulliable or are you saying that you've played for NFL teams before?

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;609658]You played for teams in the NFL?...on the field?

Am I being gulliable or are you saying that you've played for NFL teams before?[/quote]

I think he's quoting Matt Bowen Tee. :)

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=53Fan;609664]I think he's quoting Matt Bowen Tee. :)[/quote]

Thanks...I couldn't see the format of what was going on. I thought it was strange that I didn't know a former NFL player was a regular poster on our message board.

This makes more sense...thanks 53.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

Either that or I'm Matt Bowen

haha j/k, yeah it was a quote, was too lazy to wrap it

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

i dont care if the players love him. He makes poor decisions and doesnt properly prepare the team. Don't endorse someone that you will soon fire. It lowers your credibility

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

I am actually kind of surprised and quasi impressed that Snyder hasn't thrown Zorn out on his ass by now. Sure that is a function of there not being anyone who could step into the HC role but you would think that manchild Snyder wouldn't even think it that far through. He is doing the right thing, getting through this season and then in the offseason, get rid of Zorn and rebuild. Hopefully he will stop making personnel decisions like bringing in Hall, Smoot, Archuleta, Lloyd, Randle El, list goes on and on.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

Come on now, why would Snyder give a rat's ass what the players think? For the most part, are they playing to their potential? Are they actually earning the ridiculous amount of $$$$$ Snyder is paying them to entertain us? Snyder is a business man, a very shrewd, and successful one at that. He can't lose even if the team sucks and the blame isn't on Snyder or the team. A bunch of it is with the crazyass fans that keep buying season tickets for this never ending soap opera of a football franchise. What is it, a 5 year waiting list? Shoot, all the present season ticket holders could cancel out for 2010 and they all will be replaced ASAP. THE NFL is a business and bieng that, is market driven. When you have people acting irrationally by gobbling up season tickets and merchandise for a bad football team, it obscures normal market proceedings. With the shrinking of the Skins revenue market in the mid 90's with the Ravens and Panthers divying up the once huge Skins TV market share, Snyder pretty much has maximized the profits all he can. You can say that winning the SB would boost sales, but by how much? Thing is Snyder and Jones have found out that keeping their team in a state of chaos keeps interest flowing. They hook the duped fans with new coaches, stud FA acquisitions, etc. Snyder actually outdid Jones in this aspect with bringing Gibbs back, with limited success. Bottom line is these guys know that it is all really nothing more than "bread and circuses" to amuse the masses with, and most of the folks that do attend the games know that deep down as well. That is why you will never have a fan "strike" or mass protests. The reason that is has had some mild success in Detroit with nobody showing up to games is more economic than actual protest.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=skinster;609842]i dont care if the players love him. He makes poor decisions and doesnt properly prepare the team. Don't endorse someone that you will soon fire. It lowers your credibility[/quote]

I disagree. I think an effective leader needs to communicate to his employees better, one way or the other.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

Snyder doesn't have to listen to anybody. His formula has made the Washington Redskins the most valuable professional sports franchise how many years now? Snyder trades off with his buddy Jones like every other year. Hell the Skins are worth more than Manchester United!!!!!

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;609567]I think the players are asking for leadership from the FO and I don't fault them for that. They want to know if Zorn is going to be at the end of the season and if not bring in somebody now.[/quote]
I agree, but Snyder is in a bind. If he fires the Zorn early on he just throws fuel on the fire of his not so great reputation about keeping a short leash, so you get an endorsement that will last 11 weeks, then unless a miracle occurs, it is see ya later. As for leadership from the FO? What are they supposed to do? They are running the financial aspects of the franchise pretty well, and with the highest payroll is the NFL the players shouldn't be bitching. Yeah, the personnel issues are not being handled well, but then again, all these guys are professionals and should be playing to a professional level. The FO should be bitching about the shoddy play from the players themselves. The players are just taking a cue from the fans and trying to direct blame away from them.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=Hog1;609299]I keep hearing from people that you would think.....know. Doc Walker (who is a PLAYER GUY) talking about the apparent lack of strong locker room leadership. As you say 53, rally around the guy and play as a "unit".[/quote]


........anyone see the John Riggins you tube vidio?




[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvIX3S0f-2c"]YouTube - Twitter @Riggo44 says it's time for Linus to lose the blanket.....[/ame]

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

Snyder should tell his players to listen to the coaches. Also, Snyder should tune in to 106.7 and listen to the LaVar Arrington sports talk show. You can tell that LaVar is my favorite Redskin, even though he doesn’t play anymore. In fact, Portis should listen to LaVar’s show also.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

LaVar fired his assistant for not having the car warmed up for him at 6:00AM.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=Angry;614169]LaVar fired his assistant for not having the car warmed up for him at 6:00AM.[/quote]

LOL..........Lord knows he can't ride the bike anymore!