Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=Ruhskins;611121]But they didn't. Good luck selling it to the masses that you're hiring a coach who went 1-15 the last time as a HC.[/quote]

That was a dysfunctional team and one season is not a chance.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;611118]That's why after the season turmoil is over and clean house, we should hire [B]Cam Cameron[/B] look what his done with Flacco and they came back and should have beaten Minnesota.[/quote]

Hire Cam as a OC or HC? I'm all for the OC not so much the HC.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;611127]That was a dysfunctional team and one season is not a chance.[/quote]

Yeah, well your talking logic there, and the masses don't understand that. Good luck defending that here.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

Whtaever.... I just got back from the game. Everyone was cheering for him when he came in...but Im' sorry, he's no better. Everyone sucks equally. I still think JC should be the one under center, but I think no one is here next year.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

Let's give it up for my boy Todd Collins . . . .oh yeah. It doesn't matter who the QB is. The o-line stinks, period, end of story! How about the New Orleans Saints! Yes sir.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;611136]Let's give it up for my boy Todd Collins . . . .oh yeah. It doesn't matter who the QB is. The o-line stinks, period, end of story! How about the New Orleans Saints! Yes sir.[/quote]

I think NO is the best team in the NFC right now.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=The Goat;611103]I wouldn't be surprised if Jason didn't get signed again anywhere, but then again there are just a ton of shitty QBs out there so it's sort of luck of the draw.

...that said I think he could have been a solid guy in the right system and behind a legit o-line. What's happened is very sad.[/quote]
Very intuitive Goat. I agree 100% on both points.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=Ruhskins;611137]I think NO is the best team in the NFC right now.[/quote]
In football.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

NO is the team to beat

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

whats the chances of greg williams coming back here? what is his contract status in NO?

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

Bottom line, the QB will make little difference behind this makeshift line. A poor O-line makes a great QB look mediocre and an average QB look poor. A superior OL can make an average QB look Pro Bowl caliber (Mark Rypien). It's pretty clear what this team needs to do from a personnel standpoint. I just wish that Cerrato was held accountable for this year's debacle, because he chose to neglect the O-line when we had 10 picks in 2008, only drafting Chad Rinehart. That's not addressing O-line depth.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=GTripp0012;611075]Yeah this Eagles team isn't winning 8 games.

I was saying that tongue in cheek...it's not like the Redskins are going to win six games. Nor does that get you into the playoffs. It's just a lofty goal to strive for.[/quote]
My theory is coming true. Just so you know to add to that... Raiders are winning right now.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;611118]That's why after the season turmoil is over and clean house, we should hire [B]Cam Cameron[/B] look what his done with Flacco and they came back and should have beaten Minnesota.[/quote]

dude you're on cam cameron's nuts. but i might get on his nuts too. he can flat out coach offense and they've also got al saunders as a offensive consultant. lol.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

Kinda hard to blame Collins much. It's tough to come off the bench when you've had maybe 10% of the snaps all week. At this point might as well stick with TC and see what he can do with a real week of preparation.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

Sad thing is, this would be a great opportunity to see if Colt Brennan could play in this league.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=GTripp0012;610880]At least with Collins, we can be hilariously bad instead of [B]respectable [/B]but still bad.

That will make game reviews more fun.[/quote]

We were respectable? When did that happen?

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=SouperMeister;611157]Bottom line, the QB will make little difference behind this makeshift line. A poor O-line makes a great QB look mediocre and an average QB look poor. A superior OL can make an average QB look Pro Bowl caliber (Mark Rypien). It's pretty clear what this team needs to do from a personnel standpoint. I just wish that Cerrato was held accountable for this year's debacle, because he chose to neglect the O-line when we had 10 picks in 2008, only drafting Chad Rinehart. That's not addressing O-line depth.[/quote]

Yeah, but not this bad. Aaron Rodgers is getting crushed this year and they still manage to score points. They had 23 against the Vikes, and he got sacked 8 times. JC got sacked 8 times in the first 4 games combined, and the Skins still couldn't do shit. Also, Big Ben and Matt Cassel got sacked more than JC last year, and the Pats went 11-5 and the Steelers won it all. The Vikes were all over Flacco today, and they still scored 31. A poor O-line definitely doesn't help, but nothing can excuse the Skins Offensive production this year. A QB playing at a high level can still make things happen when protection breaks down. Can they score 45 points in a half like the Pats, maybe not. But can they still manage 20 plus points. Yes, happens all the time.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=PennSkinsFan;611204]Sad thing is, this would be a great opportunity to see if Colt Brennan could play in this league.[/quote]

Disagree w/ this. Why put a rookie (basically) into the worst possible situation having 1) the worst oline in professional football 2) just a couple legit downfield targets, in Cooley in Moss, that defenses long ago figured out how to neutralize?

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=44Deezel;611224]Yeah, but not this bad. Aaron Rodgers is getting crushed this year and they still manage to score points. They had 23 against the Vikes, and he got sacked 8 times. JC got sacked 8 times in the first 4 games combined, and the Skins still couldn't do shit. Also, Big Ben and Matt Cassel got sacked more than JC last year, and the Pats went 11-5 and the Steelers won it all. The Vikes were all over Flacco today, and they still scored 31. A poor O-line definitely doesn't help, but nothing can excuse the Skins Offensive production this year. A QB playing at a high level can still make things happen when protection breaks down. Can they score 45 points in a half like the Pats, maybe not. But can they still manage 20 plus points. Yes, happens all the time.[/quote]

True

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=skinsfan69;611180]dude you're on cam cameron's nuts. but i might get on his nuts too. he can flat out coach offense and they've also got al saunders as a offensive consultant. lol.[/quote]Cameron and Saunders are from the Coryell, Gibbs, Zampese, Turner, Martz tree of offensive philosophy. I was on record saying that throwing JC into a WCO was a mistake, akin to shoving a square peg in a round hole. So now you want the FO to go back to the Coryell philosophy? What about continuity? Even if Campbell isn't here, weren't Kelly, Davis, and Thomas drafted with the WCO in mind?

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=44Deezel;611224]Yeah, but not this bad. Aaron Rodgers is getting crushed this year and they still manage to score points. They had 23 against the Vikes, and he got sacked 8 times. JC got sacked 8 times in the first 4 games combined, and the Skins still couldn't do shit. Also, Big Ben and Matt Cassel got sacked more than JC last year, and the Pats went 11-5 and the Steelers won it all. The Vikes were all over Flacco today, and they still scored 31. A poor O-line definitely doesn't help, but nothing can excuse the Skins Offensive production this year. A QB playing at a high level can still make things happen when protection breaks down. Can they score 45 points in a half like the Pats, maybe not. But can they still manage 20 plus points. Yes, happens all the time.[/quote]

I do agree with the main point of this - it's more on the qb than it is on the offensive line.

And to make it clearer of how unexcusable Campbell's play has been most of this season - Todd Collins, a career backup, comes in the second half and even though doesn't light it up, there is not a drop-off of offensive production. The offense argubly got better and I assume that he didn't any quality snaps in practice during this preceding week - which can make a huge difference (although with Zorn, I don't know what to expect).

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=warriorzpath;611261]I do agree with the main point of this - it's more on the qb than it is on the offensive line.

And to make it clearer of how unexcusable Campbell's play has been most of this season - Todd Collins, a career backup, comes in the second half and even though doesn't light it up, there is not a drop-off of offensive production. The offense argubly got better and I assume that he didn't any quality snaps in practice during this preceding week - which can make a huge difference (although with Zorn, I don't know what to expect).[/quote]There was a major dropoff in production though, and an equally obvious increase in hilarity.

Anyone who says otherwise wasn't paying attention. Put it this way: Campbell has now had three games where he was held without a TD pass or a FG attempt in the first half. The first two games, we scored 17 and 14 points. This game, we scored six, and no touchdows. If that's not a dropoff, I have no idea what a dropoff is.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=GTripp0012;611266]There was a major dropoff in production though, and an equally obvious increase in hilarity.

Anyone who says otherwise wasn't paying attention.[/quote]

No. 2 field goals for a Collins lead offense. no points for Campbell behind the same exact offensive line and against the same exact team.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=warriorzpath;611268]No. 2 field goals for a Collins lead offense. no points for Campbell behind the same exact offensive line and against the same exact team.[/quote]Oooooooh, two field goals.

That's so much better than any second half Jason Campbell had this year. And not our worst second half output of the year or anything.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=GTripp0012;611271]Oooooooh, two field goals.

That's so much better than any second half Jason Campbell had this year. And not our worst second half output of the year or anything.[/quote]

Please, when you compare campbell vs collins in this game. It's apples vs apples, but collins didn't have close to the same preparation time in practice this week as campbell.

But do you see what I'm getting at, comparing a career second stringer to a starter. This should be a big difference at this point in Campbell's career, not arguing over who is better.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=warriorzpath;611276]Please, when you compare campbell vs collins in this game. It's apples vs apples, but collins didn't have close to the same preparation time in practice this week as campbell.

But do you see what I'm getting at, comparing a career second stringer to a starter. This should be a big difference at this point in Campbell's career, not arguing over who is better.[/quote]It's not apples vs. apples. It's a ridiculously small sample, in a game where the second quarterback looked hopelessly lost and like he should have retired two years ago.

My comparison very well might be imperfect, by I'm at least trying to frame it in a context that makes sense. Collins was complete crap out there, and I'm sure a lot of that's the offensive line and receivers. I mean, they still suck, obviously. But Collins didn't have a clue out there. That was painful, but it also was obvious.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=GTripp0012;611279]It's not apples vs. apples. It's a ridiculously small sample, in a game where the second quarterback looked hopelessly lost and like he should have retired two years ago.

My comparison very well might be imperfect, by I'm at least trying to frame it in a context that makes sense. Collins was complete crap out there, and I'm sure a lot of that's the offensive line and receivers. I mean, they still suck, obviously. But Collins didn't have a clue out there. That was painful, but it also was obvious.[/quote]

Just face it, Campbell is done. Even with Collins not having a clue, he outplayed Campbell. The proof is right there. 6 points to Campbell's 0 points. I really don't care about sample size. This season's offensive failures so far is enough of a sample to me.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=warriorzpath;611285]Just face it, Campbell is done. Even with Collins not having a clue, he outplayed Campbell. The proof is right there. 6 points to Campbell's 0 points. I really don't care about sample size. This season's offensive failures so far is enough of a sample to me.[/quote]I don't really care about what you don't care about. The point is, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Campbell will probably start next Monday night.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

Collins is a mere band-aid over a gaping wound.

There are problems far larger than the QB situation going here and neither JC nor Collins nor effing Tom Brady could fix it.

... Okay maybe Tom Brady.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=SouperMeister;611252]Cameron and Saunders are from the Coryell, Gibbs, Zampese, Turner, Martz tree of offensive philosophy. I was on record saying that throwing JC into a WCO was a mistake, akin to shoving a square peg in a round hole. So now you want the FO to go back to the Coryell philosophy? What about continuity? Even if Campbell isn't here, weren't Kelly, Davis, and Thomas drafted with the WCO in mind?[/quote]

Excellent point. What a complete botch-job by the front office for making the jump to the WCO -- with a completely inexperienced head coach/offensive coordinator to boot.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=GTripp0012;611286]I don't really care about what you don't care about. The point is, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Campbell will probably start next Monday night.[/quote]

You say I have no idea what I'm talking about after you saying that Collins looks lost and there was a dropoff in offensive production after he came in. Man...

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

I think it doesn't matter who the qb is and i think this game showed that. The problem is the design of the offense itself. It does not maximize the talent of the players. The players are not given an opportunity to be successful. It is a poorly conceived and ineffective gameplan week in and week out.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=warriorzpath;611291]You say I have no idea what I'm talking about after you saying that Collins looks lost and there was a dropoff in offensive production after he came in. Man...[/quote]There was a dropoff in offensive production. Sort of. Portis just happened to have his longest run in four years while Collins was in there. Of course, Todd couldn't get us into the end zone.

I'm ever grateful for the magical run he took us on two years ago, but he's a career long scrub outisde of those four games. Campbell might not ever develop into anything more than he is now, but the comparison is completely ridiculous.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;611287]Collins is a mere band-aid over a gaping wound.

[B]There are problems far larger than the QB situation[/B] going here and neither JC nor Collins nor effing Tom Brady could fix it.

... Okay maybe Tom Brady.[/quote]

I agree.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=wordsmithgk;611293][B]I think it doesn't matter who the qb is and i think this game showed that.[/B] The problem is the design of the offense itself. It does not maximize the talent of the players. The players are not given an opportunity to be successful. It is a poorly conceived and ineffective gameplan week in and week out.[/quote]I really think that this is correct. We were getting production from the QB position, but not winning. Taking that production away isn't going to make our offense particularly more inept. We have to learn how to win with defense, because we haven't been able to do that in two years.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=GTripp0012;611294]There was a dropoff in offensive production. Sort of. Portis just happened to have his longest run in four years while Collins was in there. Of course, Todd couldn't get us into the end zone.

I'm ever grateful for the magical run he took us on two years ago, but he's a career long scrub outisde of those four games. Campbell might not ever develop into anything more than he is now, but the comparison is completely ridiculous.[/quote]

The comparison is ridiculous because Campbell should be much farther along then he is now. The comparison shouldn't be this close right now.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;611287]Collins is a mere band-aid over a gaping wound.

[B]There are problems far larger than the QB situation going here[/B] and neither JC nor Collins nor effing Tom Brady could fix it.

... Okay maybe Tom Brady.[/quote]

EXACTLY. Too numerous to mention.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=wordsmithgk;611293]I think it doesn't matter who the qb is and i think this game showed that. The problem is the design of the offense itself. It does not maximize the talent of the players. The players are not given an opportunity to be successful. [B]It is a poorly conceived and ineffective gameplan week in and week out.[/B][/quote]

You know, it doesn't even look like they gameplan -- it looks like Zorn is just winging it.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

[quote=warriorzpath;611298]The comparison is ridiculous because Campbell should be much farther along then he is now. The comparison shouldn't be this close right now.[/quote]Sigh. I agree.

Any other team with our defense could win win Jason Campbell though. The number of offensive personnel and coaching moves that have contributed to the current product is remarkably disappointing.

Re: The Collins Sighting
 

And whether or not, he got lucky- Collins got points from this offense. And there's another negative trait, Campbell's not lucky. I don't know if you can attribute that to him or not.