Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

I can't believe people are still arguing about this shit.
Here's a little quiz for you.
1.)Which one of these players has the worst starting quarterback on there team
A.)Portis(Jason Campbell)
B.)Turner(Matt Ryan)
C.)Forte(Jay Culer)

2.)Which of the above players has the worst Oline?
3.) Which if the three RB's above is averaging the most yards per carry?

The answer is A to all three questions. So even with the terrible Oline and the poor perfroming QB, Cinton Portis still is averaging more YPC then the other 2 players.

I think people bitch just to bitch about something. Yea he's not the best in the league but he not as bad as everyone is making him out to be.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;612146]Anyone who thinks Portis is a leading contributor to the bad start to the season is, I feel, sadly mistaken.

When you compare what he did in the first 6 weeks of 2008 to this season, the only glaring difference is the total number of touches.

In 2008 in the first 6 weeks Portis averaged 4.7 ypc.
In 2009 in the first 6 weeks Protis averaged 4.2 ypc.

Not a big difference there, if a RB is averaging over 4 yards per carry, I say let him play.

No, the big difference in 2009 is that in 2008 at this point in the season, Portis had [B]30 more carries[/B] in 2008 after 6 weeks than he has in 2009. And last year at this point, everyone and thier grandmother already had Portis starting in the Pro Bowl. He had an awesome first half of 2008.

Now I know 2009 has been a less than desirable start, but, from what I see the Redskins have never been blown out, and they have never really been so far out of a game that they needed to abandon the run to play catch up, which in most cases is the 4th quarter anyway.

Keep feeding him the rock, and that will keep defenses honest and help the passing game out to boot.[/quote]But Portis isn't anywhere close to where he was last year at this time in total value, when he was in the midst of a 5 game 120+ yards per streak. Also, 0.5 YPC isn't particularly close. And he has one rushing TD, despite ample opportunity.

Portis has actually been in decline since 2006, but behind an offensive line that played very well for 5 weeks at the beginning of last year, and defenses that were putting considerable resources to stopping the pass, he put together a really good stretch. At this point though, he's a grind em out power runner who doesn't really even finish his runs any more.

He's the best RB on the team, and still has considerable value, but he doesn't set up his blocks well, and he doesn't finish runs, and he fumbles. You can't argue that he deserves any more carries than he is getting.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=maroonandblack30;611784]I agree, but also think he is so out of shape that he was just too tired to make anything happen at the end of that run....he was GASSED!!!![/quote]

Okay, okay, :hater:, we get it already. Heard you the first time.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

I dont like this topic. Offensive line is too big a factor for us to properly judge portis.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

Take out the 78 yd run yesterday, and he's averaging about 3.5 YPA.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;612237]Take out the 78 yd run yesterday, and he's averaging about 3.5 YPA.[/quote]Or truncate it at 30 (which would be a season high), and it's 3.8 YPA.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

The other point, is that if Portis finishes that run, like every other No.1 back in the league would have, in the end zone: we probably win that game 10-9, or even 10-6. Is it Portis' fault that Collins threw three straight incomplete passes in the red zone? No it's not. But it's a big, glaring missed oppertunity in the open field, and plus, it's not a shock that none of our receivers were open in three consecutive plays.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;612237]Take out the 78 yd run yesterday, and he's averaging about 3.5 YPA.[/quote]

Why do we need to take it out?

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=WaldSkins;612257]Why do we need to take it out?[/quote]Because when you're doing a statistical breakdown to look at what a true average is, you often throw out statistical anomalies, like 78 yd runs. If you want to throw out his worst run, we'll throw out a -5 and Portis will still average about 3.5 YPA.

GTripp is much better at explaining the theories behind stats than I am, I'm sure he'll chime in.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=WaldSkins;612257]Why do we need to take it out?[/quote]I wouldn't recommend that you disregard it, it happened, and it happened because we blocked it well, Portis exploded through the hole and Kansas City tripped all over themselves down the field.

It also happened because he got that handoff from his own ten, and not the opponent's 40. A run where the running back gets to the safety level only has so much value, and shouldn't really be more valuable, IMO, if a RB is on his own ten versus the midfield stripe.

So, it seems easier to truncate the run to a realistic figure than to have to put an asterix next to the YPC figure every time we mention it until he hits 200 carries. What a realistic figure is, who am I to suggest it should be 50 or 30 or whatever. It should be whatever % of the downfield run Portis deserves for a run that he simply didn't finish.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;612215]But Portis isn't anywhere close to where he was last year at this time in total value, when he was in the midst of a 5 game 120+ yards per streak. Also, 0.5 YPC isn't particularly close. And he has one rushing TD, despite ample opportunity.

Portis has actually been in decline since 2006, but behind an offensive line that played very well for 5 weeks at the beginning of last year, and defenses that were putting considerable resources to stopping the pass, he put together a really good stretch. At this point though, he's a grind em out power runner who doesn't really even finish his runs any more.

He's the best RB on the team, and still has considerable value, but he doesn't set up his blocks well, and he doesn't finish runs, and he fumbles. You can't argue that he deserves any more carries than he is getting.[/quote]

Gtripp, I think you are wrong...

The line has been on a decline since Randy Thomas and Jon Jansen started breaking down( 2006 ), Not Portis.

Injuries are catching up to CP but he is still a top 10 back in the league in my opinion.

The Redskins have the worst offensive line in the NFL. I'm sure you can probably pull one of your typicall bullshit stats out of your ass and say they aren't... They are and have been for a while.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;612260]Because when you're doing a statistical breakdown to look at what a true average is, you often throw out statistical anomalies, like 78 yd runs. If you want to throw out his worst run, we'll throw out a -5 and Portis will still average about 3.5 YPA.

GTripp is much better at explaining the theories behind stats than I am, I'm sure he'll chime in.[/quote]

Then throw it out for all the other backs in the league and compare their stats.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=jamf;612409]Gtripp, I think you are wrong...

[B]The line has been on a decline since Randy Thomas and Jon Jansen started breaking down( 2006 ), Not Portis. [/B]

Injuries are catching up to CP but he is still a top 10 back in the league in my opinion.

The Redskins have the worst offensive line in the NFL. I'm sure you can probably pull one of your typicall bullshit stats out of your ass and say they aren't... They are and have been for a while.[/quote]Well, I don't think it's mutually exclusive. I think both the line and Portis have been in decline, and both have contributed to the systematic drop in production. It's not all the fault of just one or the other. At least I'm pretty sure.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;612423]Well, I don't think it's mutually exclusive. I think both the line and Portis have been in decline, and both have contributed to the systematic drop in production. It's not all the fault of just one or the other. At least I'm pretty sure.[/quote]


Btw, I apologize for my wording in my post. I am clearly fustrated..

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=jamf;612409]Injuries are catching up to CP but he is still a top 10 back in the league in my opinion.[/quote]Better NFL RBs than Portis:
Adrain Peterson
Tomlinson
Westbrook
Brandon Jacobs
Marion Barber
Felix Jones
Ronnie Brown
Thomas Jones
Frank Gore
McFadden
Mendenhall
Ray Rice
Michael Turner
Forte
Chris Johnson
Jones-Drew
Cedric Benson (so far this year)
DeAngelo Williams

Others I'd rather have, but you could argue either way:

Jonathan Stewart
L. McCoy
K. Moreno
Slaton
A. Bradshaw
F. Jackson

[quote]The Redskins have the worst offensive line in the NFL. I'm sure you can probably pull one of your typicall bullshit stats out of your ass and say they aren't... They are and have been for a while.[/quote]Certainly not a top ten line, but for the most part they have been adequate. What hasn't been adequate is the playcalling or a QB who can complete passes to keep drives alive.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;612434]Better NFL RBs than Portis:
Adrain Peterson
Tomlinson
Westbrook
Brandon Jacobs
Marion Barber
Felix Jones
Ronnie Brown
Thomas Jones
Frank Gore
McFadden
Mendenhall
Ray Rice
Michael Turner
Forte
Chris Johnson
Jones-Drew
Cedric Benson (so far this year)
DeAngelo Williams

Others I'd rather have, but you could argue either way:

Jonathan Stewart
L. McCoy
K. Moreno
Slaton
A. Bradshaw
F. Jackson

Certainly not a top ten line, but for the most part they have been adequate. What hasn't been adequate is the playcalling or a QB who can complete passes to keep drives alive.[/quote]

Nice list, id have Slaton in the top one though. And yes we need a QB who can keep drives going and finish. Rodgers gets killed and still puts up TD's so it can be done.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=Lotus;611725]I think this is Portis' last year with the Redskins.[/quote]

I pray there is a major cleaning house this offseason.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=jamf;612433]Btw, I apologize for my wording in my post. I am clearly fustrated..[/quote]No worries.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=djnemo65;611710]It was really apparent in yesterday's game how much lateral quickness he's lost. He has no explosiveness out of his cuts anymore. Yeah he could do well behind a great line but so could most NFL backs. He's just a guy at this point, just one who happens to be making mega millions.[/quote]

Clinton is a down hill runner now. He is a north and south runner, So I agree with you that he has lost his lateral quickness. But I would still take Portis because he runs hard and blocks well. He also plays through injuires that alot of other backs sit out games with.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=Lotus;611725]I think this is Portis' last year with the Redskins.[/quote]

Its much easier to replace a starting RB (Portis) than a starting QB (JC). I agree this could be Portis's last season. If we got a young stud RB out of the this coming draft in the late rounds that could extend Portis career. Betts is a zero he must go.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=maroonandblack30;611780]there are holes/daylight that he doesn't hit or doesn't see thus doesn't get the yards that are available on those plays.

The 78 yard run is a perfect example....there were 9 yards "left on the field" on that play that he didn't get. Every other starting RB in the league, making as much money as 26 scores on that play... not even a question.[/quote]

I agree CP should have score with 1 man to beat. It should be noted that Sellers should have knocked little ass Mike Brown on the ground. Instead Sellers falls and Mike Brown makes the tackle. Thats how the season goes for team playing poorly on offense. We have the Red Zone Diease.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

Show me a team with a Running Back as the highest paid player on Offense, and I will show you a team that doesn't make the playoffs. Name New England's RB when they won 3 titles. How many guys played in the Steelers backfield last year. Does anyone think the Colts won the Super Bowl on the shoulders of their running backs? The Ravens? The Bucs? RBs are a dime a dozen. Most teams have 2 RBs better than Portis. There are 40 plus RBs in the league that would get 1500 yards if they got Portis' carries. The days of the "feature back" are over (with a few exceptions).

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

OUR PASS GAME IS TERRIBLE.
Defenses gameplan CP all day and he cant answer when its this bad.

Your all putting the blame on CPs shoulders?
he has lost a step... BUT his O-Line is in shambles.

We need CP in Washington...ALONG WITH ANOTHER EXPOLSIVE YOUNG BACK.
ive said this so many times. WE NEED A SOLID CP SPELL.

Clinton can hang around. Id like to have youth..along with him.

....then

We bring in a coach who likes to pound the rock and were in buisness.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

he's 7th in rushing yards I believe but how many o-lines are worst than ours??

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=44Deezel;612520]Show me a team with a Running Back as the highest paid player on Offense, and I will show you a team that doesn't make the playoffs. Name New England's RB when they won 3 titles. How many guys played in the Steelers backfield last year. Does anyone think the Colts won the Super Bowl on the shoulders of their running backs? The Ravens? The Bucs? RBs are a dime a dozen. Most teams have 2 RBs better than Portis. There are 40 plus RBs in the league that would get 1500 yards if they got Portis' carries. The days of the "feature back" are over (with a few exceptions).[/quote]

Exactly.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

I think the problem with Portis other than O-line is his back doesn't come in and give a change of pace and help soften up the D-line Betts is the problem he's worthless, and should be shamed for taking money for what he doesn't do. Yeah Portis is on the down slope, but he can still produce. When he needs a breather Betts gains what 1 or 2 yards if not lose yardage. I say we start with getting rid of that worthless piece of sh$%#!

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=44Deezel;612520]Show me a team with a Running Back as the highest paid player on Offense, and I will show you a team that doesn't make the playoffs. Name New England's RB when they won 3 titles. How many guys played in the Steelers backfield last year. Does anyone think the Colts won the Super Bowl on the shoulders of their running backs? The Ravens? The Bucs? RBs are a dime a dozen. Most teams have 2 RBs better than Portis. There are 40 plus RBs in the league that would get 1500 yards if they got Portis' carries. The days of the "feature back" are over (with a few exceptions).[/quote]

Uh... The Colts rushed for 191 yards in the Superbowl XLI. Jamal Lewis rushed for over 2000 yards the year the Ravens won, and in the Bucs Superbowl win, Michael Pittman alone, rushed for 124 yards.

And if there's really 40 running backs that could do what Portis has done; name them.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=Southpaw;612592]Uh... The Colts rushed for 191 yards in the Superbowl XLI. Jamal Lewis rushed for over 2000 yards the year the Ravens won, and in the Bucs Superbowl win, Michael Pittman alone, rushed for 124 yards.

And if there's really 40 running backs that could do what Portis[B] has done[/B]; name them.[/quote]

Doesn't matter what he has "done" it matters what he is can "do".... currently.

Thats probably his biggest problem, he thinks he is a superstar because of past accomplishments.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;612193]One thing I would like to see is, Mason being used more than 1 or 2 carries a game. I want him to take a chunk of carries, people say he's like another Portis, Betts but I disagree. I say him a chance and let's see what he can do, I bet people will be surprised.[/quote]

There are several young players on this team that are not getting the opportunity to play. That could be part of the many problems the team is experiencing. Maybe the question should be: How many running backs are better than Portis?

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=maroonandblack30;611724]
The skins have WAY too may guys who are fat and happy cause they are getting paid....I swear the fans care more when they lose the 50% of the players.[/quote]

Great point...in a way I am a little glad that Snyder is getting to see how a lot of money doesn't necessarily result in a good team. We had little problems like Lloyd and Archuleta but now that the whole team has gone up in smoke, I wonder if he will make any adjustments.

Portis is not a disgrace, although he was never quite the touchdown machine he was in Denver, he has added a great chapter to the book on Redskins rushers, he's number 2 on the list in all-time yards, 3rd in all time carries and occupies the top 2 spots for yards in a season. So don't call him a disgrace, has he slowed, for sure, has he been given enough of an opportunity to succeed? I'm not so sure.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=Southpaw;612592]Uh... The Colts rushed for 191 yards in the Superbowl XLI. Jamal Lewis rushed for over 2000 yards the year the Ravens won, and in the Bucs Superbowl win, Michael Pittman alone, rushed for 124 yards.

And if there's really 40 running backs that could do what Portis has done; name them.[/quote]

I think you're missing his point; he's not saying that running the ball isn't important, he's saying that a "feature" rb isn't necessary & isn't worth paying a ton of $ for. I think your examples actually make his point, I mean does anyone think Addai or M. Pittman are great backs? Those guys were probably making 1/10 of what CP makes. (J. Lewis was a beast back then btw)

It's not that a great rb isn't worth a lot, it's just that w/good blocking a 4th round pick making small $ can outperform a 28 yr. old w/lots of mileage & injuries that makes big $.

As the Tuna said, it's a "disposable position."

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;612606]Great point...in a way I am a little glad that Snyder is getting to see how a lot of money doesn't necessarily result in a good team. We had little problems like Lloyd and Archuleta but now that the whole team has gone up in smoke, I wonder if he will make any adjustments.

Portis is not a disgrace, although he was never quite the touchdown machine he was in Denver, he has added a great chapter to the book on Redskins rushers, he's number 2 on the list in all-time yards, 3rd in all time carries and occupies the top 2 spots for yards in a season. So don't call him a disgrace, has he slowed, for sure, has he been given enough of an opportunity to succeed? I'm not so sure.[/quote]

We need to insert the players we have who are hungry for success. There's no doubt in my mind that another coach (with a vision) wouldn't recognize a time in a game when a player like Anhony Alridge could be utilized. I don't want to hear about "fumbles" Portis fumbled the ball just this past Sunday, and there's also no doubt Alridge would have scored on the play Portis failed to do so. We have absolutely nothing to lose by utilizing our youth, the old "fat cats" are not getting the job done, if we can be 2-4 with them, we can't be any worse without them.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=freddyg12;612614]It's not that a great rb isn't worth a lot, it's just that w/good blocking a 4th round pick making small $ can outperform a 28 yr. old w/lots of mileage & injuries that makes big $.[/quote]

I don't disagree that Portis makes too much money, but when people direct their displeasure about a ridiculous contract on the player that has done nothing but produce for the majority of the last 5 seasons, it's a bit misplaced at the least. Clinton Portis didn't write the asinine, backloaded contract, and it's basically impossible for a runningback with that many carries to outplay a contract like that.

I'm simply taking issue with the fact that some people actually have the nerve to call Portis a disgrace. Direct your displeasure to the right place. Team management is the disgrace.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=maroonandblack30;611700]I know our line is in shambles, but Portis leaves yards on the field. No explosiveness, no quickness, and he doesn't even think he needs to practice.

How did he not score on that 78 yard run? One defender, one blocker, and one CP = a FG???? Every other starting RB in the league scores easily.

He is a disgrace to the Burgandy and Gold!!!!![/quote]


every high school and college running back and about 15-18 starting rbs in the nfl, but in his defense he has been worn down these past 6 years

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

Portis is a disgrace because of his attitude not his lack of production...he acts like he is too good for practice when its clear that he needs to work harder to overcome his eroding skills.... He simply won't put in the work necessary and doesn't seem to care that that hurts his team. That is a disgrace IN MY OPINION. You might disagree but I don't think its far fetched or misplaced. And I don't think he is the reason why the Skins are failing miserable, he is more of a sympton.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=Southpaw;612619]I don't disagree that Portis makes too much money, but when people direct their displeasure about a ridiculous contract on the player that has done nothing but produce for the majority of the last 5 seasons, it's a bit misplaced at the least. Clinton Portis didn't write the asinine, backloaded contract, and it's basically impossible for a runningback with that many carries to outplay a contract like that.

I'm simply taking issue with the fact that some people actually have the nerve to call Portis a disgrace. Direct your displeasure to the right place. Team management is the disgrace.[/quote]

That same principle needs to be aplied when it comes to the coach.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=Southpaw;612592]Uh... The Colts rushed for 191 yards in the Superbowl XLI. Jamal Lewis rushed for over 2000 yards the year the Ravens won, and in the Bucs Superbowl win, Michael Pittman alone, rushed for 124 yards.

And if there's really 40 running backs that could do what Portis has done; name them.[/quote]


jamal lewis ran for 2000 yards in 2003 he had 1364 in 2000 the year the ravens won

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=Southpaw;612619]I don't disagree that Portis makes too much money, but when people direct their displeasure about a ridiculous contract on the player that has done nothing but produce for the majority of the last 5 seasons, it's a bit misplaced at the least. Clinton Portis didn't write the asinine, backloaded contract, and it's basically impossible for a runningback with that many carries to outplay a contract like that.

I'm simply taking issue with the fact that some people actually have the nerve to call Portis a disgrace. Direct your displeasure to the right place. Team management is the disgrace.[/quote]

I don't blame him for getttin paid, what I blame him for is his poor peformance on and off the field. When people say he's paid too much, it doesn't mean they're saying he's to blame for that, they're saying that him getting paid a lot & his relationship to the owner are a problem.

This has been brewing for quite a while. Gibbs is often said to have started it, but maybe Gibbs went along because CP is the Danny's favorite. Just like Lavar's relationship w/the owner, I don't see this one ending so happily either.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

Right now the answer is 25. Imagine if he had a line.

I know that some people say that his explosiveness is gone and that he has a hard time finding the endzone. The truth is who is blocking for him? Every single one of his runs is a result of his hard work. He turns 1 yard loses into 3 and 4 yard gains. Every time this season that the offensive line has actually blocked and gotten him to the second level, he exploded for a huge gain (all two times). Even with the piss poor line he is still ranked 7 in total rushing yards with a 4.2 average. As far as the lack of touchdowns is concerned, He has just as many TD's as any other offensive weapon on our team (2). We would like to see more from him and out of the rushing dept., but the truth is that this offense is struggling scoring points not just CP.

The bottom line is, give him a line. Adrian Peterson isn't doing it all by himself up there, they have a good line.

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;612260]Because when you're doing a statistical breakdown to look at what a true average is, you often throw out statistical anomalies, like 78 yd runs. If you want to throw out his worst run, we'll throw out a -5 and Portis will still average about 3.5 YPA.

GTripp is much better at explaining the theories behind stats than I am, I'm sure he'll chime in.[/quote]

OK, then we're removing Collins' 42-yard pass completion and he had 33 yards on 13 pass attempts. :D