Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;619197]I should have started this thread with the caveat "Assume we are not trading our first round pick..."[/quote]You'll learn :tongue

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;619197]I should have started this thread with the caveat "Assume we are not trading our first round pick..."[/quote]

whoops, my bad,

if we are not going to trade away the pick, I say we invest it in the best OT on the board, left or right.

ps, don't you guys feel Joe Bugel needs to be fired, I mean I understand we are not giving him grade A talent but Heyer has regressed, Dockery is not nearly as good a band-aid that we though he would be .... all that has to point to the coaching.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

Lost in translation because they have an awful team: The Rams OL might be the most improved unit in the league this year.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=GTripp0012;619196]It's the Jets, I think

If not them, then I think it's either New Orleans, Tennessee, Miami, Baltimore, or Denver.[/quote]

Ok, so I think the Jets have four 1st rounders on their starting OL (two drafted by the Jets, two others who had been in the league for a while before joining the Skins...kind of like Levi and Big Mike I suppose)

Saints have mostly 4th and 5th rounders

Titans start two 7th rounders

But anyway, my point (which I'm sure I'd get to eventually) is that a bunch of high draft picks does not make a good offensive line. A top level QB with a bunch of free agent and late round linemen is better than a scrub QB with a bunch of top level linemen. See Matt Ryan

I don't think I, or anyone else calling for a QB in the first round, is saying ignore the line. Just that we can address the line with later picks

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;619209]Ok, so I think the Jets have four 1st rounders on their starting OL (two drafted by the Jets, two others who had been in the league for a while before joining the Skins...kind of like Levi and Big Mike I suppose)

Saints have mostly 4th and 5th rounders

Titans start two 7th rounders

But anyway, my point (which I'm sure I'd get to eventually) is that a bunch of high draft picks does not make a good offensive line. A top level QB with a bunch of free agent and late round linemen is better than a scrub QB with a bunch of top level linemen. See Matt Ryan

I don't think I, or anyone else calling for a QB in the first round, is saying ignore the line. Just that we can address the line with later picks[/quote]
I'd like to take the picks that over the last few drafts that we have spent on LBs(4th,5th, and 6th rounder) and use them on offensive lineman.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;619209]Ok, so I think the Jets have four 1st rounders on their starting OL (two drafted by the Jets, two others who had been in the league for a while before joining the Skins...kind of like Levi and Big Mike I suppose)

Saints have mostly 4th and 5th rounders

Titans start two 7th rounders

But anyway, my point (which I'm sure I'd get to eventually) is that a bunch of high draft picks does not make a good offensive line. A top level QB with a bunch of free agent and late round linemen is better than a scrub QB with a bunch of top level linemen. See Matt Ryan

I don't think I, or anyone else calling for a QB in the first round, is saying ignore the line. Just that we can address the line with later picks[/quote]We traded one of our late picks for Jason Taylor.

But the only one of those teams who has a top flight QB is New Orleans...and that guy was picked in the 2nd round. And then didn't become that top QB for four years.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=WaldSkins;619210]I'd like to take the picks that over the last few drafts that we have spent on LBs(4th,5th, and 6th rounder) and use them on offensive lineman.[/quote]

Yeah I would like to have the Brooks and Henson picks back and exchange them for linemen

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

I guess what I'm saying is that building the OL through the late rounds would involve a major organizational philosophy change, which is supposedly what getting this great franchise quarterback is supposed to shortcut.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;619212]Yeah I would like to have the Brooks and Henson picks back and exchange them for linemen[/quote]

Phil Loadholt comes to mind. He wasn't selected to the 5th round in the last draft but has already been placed on the vikings starting line.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

The other thing I'm saying, is that if Quarterback is really an issue, we should put our money where our mouths are, and get the right guy for the new system, all the while, using our draft picks to bring in young talent that will get this team back where it needs to be.

We can buy better quarterback play. We can't buy a better organization.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=WaldSkins;619214]Phil Loadholt comes to mind. He wasn't selected to the 5th round in the last draft but has already been placed on the vikings starting line.[/quote]Loadholt was picked in the middle of the second.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=GTripp0012;619218]Loadholt was picked in the middle of the second.[/quote]

Haha then who am i thinking of. Let me research that real quick.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=WaldSkins;619221]Haha then who am i thinking of. Let me research that real quick.[/quote]Jamon Meredith. Or Duke Robinson.

Meredith is starting for the Bills this week. Of course, he was drafted by the Packers, who cut him.

Robinson is a backup in Carolina.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=GTripp0012;619224]Jamon Meredith. Or Duke Robinson.

Meredith is starting for the Bills this week. Of course, he was drafted by the Packers, who cut him.

Robinson is a backup in Carolina.[/quote]

Maybe i was thinking Meredith.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;619175]For a year? Sure. And then maybe someone like a Blake DeChristopher or Jariel Carimi in 2011...as opposed to say Terrell Pryor[/quote]

dechristopher is a RT for tech. really dont know how he would be at LT. and Terrell Pryor will be a terrible pro, just a hunch.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;619190]Who do you think has the best offensive line in the league?[/quote]

I'd say the best line is the deepest line.

With 5 guys starting there's tons of margin for injury.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

For those of you that keep up a bit better with college football than me, what QBs are available, and what's their MO? Who are the blue chippers?

Personally Bradford's shoulder and McCoy in general scares me. Who would be worthy of our pick? Clausen?

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

No blue chippers, lots and lots of guys with the NFL skill set and necessary college experience.

Clausen
Pike
McCoy
Bradford
LeFeveour
Tebow
Robinson

Probably the best of the group. There's also Jake Locker who has the skill set, but not the experience or any accomplishment factor.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=Big C;619258]dechristopher is a RT for tech. really dont know how he would be at LT. and Terrell Pryor will be a terrible pro, just a hunch.[/quote]

I thought I heard he should be able to transition to LT pretty easily in the NFL, or maybe I confused him with someone else

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;619209]Ok, so I think the Jets have four 1st rounders on their starting OL (two drafted by the Jets, two others who had been in the league for a while before joining the Skins...kind of like Levi and Big Mike I suppose)

Saints have mostly 4th and 5th rounders

Titans start two 7th rounders

But anyway, my point (which I'm sure I'd get to eventually) is that a bunch of high draft picks does not make a good offensive line. A top level QB with a bunch of free agent and late round linemen is better than a scrub QB with a bunch of top level linemen. See Matt Ryan

I don't think I, or anyone else calling for a QB in the first round, is saying ignore the line. Just that we can address the line with later picks[/quote]

I see what you are saying about the line and other teams picking in later round. But don't you think drafting a lineman later might be more of a crapshoot than getting a better overall talented OL in the first round since it's so urgent for us to protect the QB? Plus Ryan Clady, Jake Long, Jeff Otah & etc. the franchise tackles are usually picked in the first round more talent is there.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

Well depends what we do in free agency in regards to our offensive line first...but I dont care who is playing quarterback... if the line is not upgraded, no one will be successful. So I'm all about the offensive line first and foremost...

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=Gmanc711;619279]Well depends what we do in free agency in regards to our offensive line first...but I dont care who is playing quarterback... if the line is not upgraded, no one will be successful. So I'm all about the offensive line first and foremost...[/quote]

Pretty much what my mindset is at..

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

Plain and simple best qb available. Do it every year till we get a QB and build from there.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;619285]Plain and simple best qb available. Do it every year till we get a QB and build from there.[/quote]Why ever try to be good when you can fail admirably every year right?

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;619285]Plain and simple best qb available. [B]Do it every year[/B] till we get a QB and build from there.[/quote]

huh?

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

You cant build a franchise without a QB. We prove that every year.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;619320]You cant build a franchise without a QB. We prove that every year.[/quote]

i thought we proved you can't win without a solid Oline

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;619321]i thought we proved you can't win without a solid Oline[/quote]
Jason C sacked 20 times

Bret Farve sacked 19 times
Mat Cassel Sacked 24 times
Aaron Roger sacked 29 times
Ben Rothlisberger 20 times
[INDENT]What does this tell you, that if an oline sucks you still should be able to move the ball. You should still be able to put more than seventeen points max. We need a Quarterback. If we had a quarterback, we would see Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, Malcom Kelly, and Marko Mitchell look like players that belong in the NFL. We should cut Jason Campbell now and fill his spot with Brian Brohm. I have never seen a team(They Finally gave up after Hiring Al Saunders, then Jim Zorn, draft a myriad of receivers, to go along with Moss, Portis, and Randel El) or a group of fans that make more excuses for a quarterback that sucks. Plain and simple.
If we had Brett Farve or Jay Cutler or any of the better Qbs we would have a winning record.
[/INDENT]

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;619324]Jason C sacked 20 times

Bret Farve sacked 19 times
Mat Cassel Sacked 24 times
Aaron Roger sacked 29 times
Ben Rothlisberger 20 times[INDENT]What does this tell you, that if an oline sucks you still should be able to move the ball. You should still be able to put more than seventeen points max. We need a Quarterback. If we had a quarterback, we would see Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, Malcom Kelly, and Marko Mitchell look like players that belong in the NFL. We should cut Jason Campbell now and fill his spot with Brian Brohm. I have never seen a team(They Finally gave up after Hiring Al Saunders, then Jim Zorn, draft a myriad of receivers, to go along with Moss, Portis, and Randel El) or a group of fans that make more excuses for a quarterback that sucks. Plain and simple.
If we had Brett Farve or Jay Cutler or any of the better Qbs we would have a winning record.
[/INDENT][/quote]Your faith in our offense to look like others is admirable, but you're really just overrating our non-talent.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=GTripp0012;619326]Your faith in our offense to look like others is admirable, but you're really just overrating our non-talent.[/quote]
No, I am not. I am pointing out that Jason Campbell is the heart of the problem. The front office has made mistakes, but at least they try. Everyone calls them idiots, but they have no QB. They tried and failed to get one. But for all their supposed stupidity, they have put together a defense that is as good as we have seen. There frivolous acquisition of Haynesworth has fixed our sack problem that has dogged us for years. Lets stop pretending that if we had an offensive line Campbell would all of the sudden be Joe Montana. He is a great guy, and I can see why the coaches love him, but he just does not have the talent.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;619275]I thought I heard he should be able to transition to LT pretty easily in the NFL, or maybe I confused him with someone else[/quote]

well he is only a redshirt sophomore now, and our starting LT Ed Wang is graduating, so maybe he will be moved to LT for next season for tech.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=GTripp0012;619326]Your faith in our offense to look like others is admirable, but you're really just overrating our non-talent.[/quote]
Buddy, I know you have always loved JC. I tried to believe that he could do it. In fact, you at times made me give him the benefit of the doubt, but it is time to let go. Believe me, he will not be here next year. He is holding our franchise back. As wood any, bad QB

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;619324]Jason C sacked 20 times

Bret Farve sacked 19 times
Mat Cassel Sacked 24 times
Aaron Roger sacked 29 times
Ben Rothlisberger 20 times
[INDENT]What does this tell you, that if an oline sucks you still should be able to move the ball. You should still be able to put more than seventeen points max. We need a Quarterback. If we had a quarterback, we would see Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, Malcom Kelly, and Marko Mitchell look like players that belong in the NFL. We should cut Jason Campbell now and fill his spot with Brian Brohm. I have never seen a team(They Finally gave up after Hiring Al Saunders, then Jim Zorn, draft a myriad of receivers, to go along with Moss, Portis, and Randel El) or a group of fans that make more excuses for a quarterback that sucks. Plain and simple.
If we had Brett Farve or Jay Cutler or any of the better Qbs we would have a winning record.
[/INDENT][/quote]

I certainly wasn't excusing Campbell.
Our problems as fans is that our team has so many lightning rod problems; Campbell, OL, Snyder, Zorn, Cerrato, (hixon); that it can't be solved with one simple draft pick. We need do need a new qb, but especially now that we have lost our pro bowl LT, I think we need to look at OT with our pick.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;619324]Jason C sacked 20 times

Bret Farve sacked 19 times
Mat Cassel Sacked 24 times
Aaron Roger sacked 29 times
Ben Rothlisberger 20 times
[INDENT]What does this tell you, that if an oline sucks you still should be able to move the ball. You should still be able to put more than seventeen points max. We need a Quarterback. If we had a quarterback, we would see Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, Malcom Kelly, and Marko Mitchell look like players that belong in the NFL. We should cut Jason Campbell now and fill his spot with Brian Brohm. I have never seen a team(They Finally gave up after Hiring Al Saunders, then Jim Zorn, draft a myriad of receivers, to go along with Moss, Portis, and Randel El) or a group of fans that make more excuses for a quarterback that sucks. Plain and simple.
If we had Brett Farve or Jay Cutler or any of the better Qbs we would have a winning record.
[/INDENT][/quote]

Marko Mitchell hasn't even been activated for a game yet, but I to believe that it's time for #17 to be gone.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;619334]I certainly wasn't excusing Campbell.
Our problems as fans is that our team has so many lightning rod problems; Campbell, OL, Snyder, Zorn, Cerrato, (hixon); that it can't be solved with one simple draft pick. We need do need a new QB, but especially now that we have lost our pro bowl LT, I think we need to look at OT with our pick.[/quote]
I understand what you are saying, our differences are philosophical. I think you have nothing, untill you have a QB.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

One thing I notice in this thread is the recurring (bad) assumption we can get decent offensive players past the 2nd, or maybe even 1st, round. Part of what makes Vinny such an utter and complete failure at his career is he cannot identify offensive talent. He's done alright w/ late round defensive picks like Horton, but that's totally insufficient to be in charge of player personnel...his continued presence in the organization alone makes the franchise a sad story today.

I mean I guess people could make the assumption Snyder dumps Vinny and turns over the FO to a legitimate football guy, a real smart one hopefully. The more I observe how lil D is reacting to the current situation, and the more vids/clips I watch of him, I just really doubt we see fundamental change. For one thing I still haven't heard any good reasons a smart, well-connected, high-character guy would want to come work for Snyder. Don't say money cuz that sort of defeats the purpose (that guy is doing it for the wrong reason and probably won't be truly successful). No I think Vinny just gets retitled after the season and the FO structure actually becomes more amorphous to the casual observer...the rest of us will still see Snyder and his toady behind every move.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

You have to protect the QB. It is hard to find a starting left tackle in any round other than the 1st. You can find a starting QB later in the draft. Most 1st round QB's don't pan out anyway.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=Angry;619341]You have to protect the QB. It is hard to find a starting left tackle in any round other than the 1st. You can find a starting QB later in the draft. Most 1st round QB's don't pan out anyway.[/quote]
You are right about left tackles, they normally come in the higher rounds. But you are wrong about QBs. Their success rate is about 50/50 in the first. Half of the starting QBs come from the first round. The other half come from the rest. We have drafted 3 in thirty years, I think. Schuler, Ramsey, and Campbell. Man, after saying that, I am depressed. But that is why I said, you keep drafting them till you get one. That what San Diego did. They thought Breese was a bust after three years and drafted another. It worked out for them and New Orleans.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

the past couple years, OL has had many picks in the 1-2 rounds and then drop off but some QBs slip through the cracks into the later rounds because some play bad defenses and it is tough to accurately judge their skills. The Skins need of quality OL significantly dwarfs the need at QB right now.

Re: Our 2010 First Round Draft Pick Should Be...
 

[quote=duetsch215;619345]the past couple years, OL has had many picks in the 1-2 rounds and then drop off but some QBs slip through the cracks into the later rounds because some play bad defenses and it is tough to accurately judge their skills. The Skins need of quality OL significantly dwarfs the need at QB right now.[/quote]
OK, you are starting a team. Some one says they will give you one player. Your choice is Joe Montana or Joe Jacoby(or the LT of your choice), who do you take.