Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=skinsfan69;621130]That's debatable. It's not MUCH better off.[/quote]

Not debatable if you ask me. This season is a disaster and the entire org. is in disarray.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

Can someone explain to me the roles of a Team President then if they have nothing to do with player acquisition? I like Gibbs as a person and a motivator, but he's no longer a football person. His offense while he was in the league was one of the worst -- and the only reason we stayed competitive was because of Greg Williams and his attacking dominant defense. His player acquisitions were built for short term winning (which we didn't do), undersized receivers, and no thought to the future. Why have we gone downhill since he left? I think that's pretty easy. Offensive line age/injuries, Clinton Portis getting destroyed from 6000 carries per season, and a change on the defensive side.

I'm not trying to kill Gibbs. While I don't agree with a lot of his philosophies and stances in life, I certainly respect them and he's done nothing but good for mankind. He's an amazing leader with an uncanny gift to lead. I just don't think football is a place for him anymore. After he quit the skins, it looks like he was 10 years younger after about two months. Football requires a dedication that consumes all of an individuals time and energy, he doesn't need that anymore -- I'm worried it would kill him, to be completely honest.

Keep racing. Enjoy your family. Hang out on that lake in South Carolina, and answer Danny's calls when he needs some real advice. Besides that, enjoy 'retirement.'

To whoever said if you can build a great racing team you can build a great football team. Come on. The difficulty of assembling an NFL team vs. assembling a NASCAR team isn't even comparable. His position in NASCAR is basically spend a lot of money, get a few amazing engineers, and hope for a lot of luck on race day. It's all about having the best equipment out there, something a salary cap and contracts greatly limit in the NFL.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=skinsfan69;621130]That's debatable. It's not MUCH better off.[/quote]

When he left, the organization from top to bottom had come together as a team and was coming off a playoff run after the death of ST. To a man, the players, coaches and FO pointed to Gibbs as the influence that brought the team through and gave them the fire to continue.

The more I see of Zorn the coach, I am convinced that the 6-2 start to the 2008 season was a direct result of Gibbs influence the prior year. But for Gibbs, the 6-2 start would not have occurred. Further, (and I know this is the "what if" game), had Gibbs returned in 2008, the team would have found a way into the playoffs again.

Without Gibbs to exert some influence over DS, Cerrato and his toxic attitude became the main character of the organization. This was exhibited almost from day one when Vinny's people intimated that G.Williams bad mouthed Gibbs. That set the tone for the next two years.

The only thing Gibbs did not do that he should have done is said "Dan, Vinny's attitude and relationship with everyone else in football sucks. He cannot be in a position of control within this organization if it is to succeed."

To assert that Gibbs didn't raise the team out of the Spurrier Chaos or that it didn't immediately sink back into the Cerrato Toxic Dump without him, is IMHO not debatable.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;621140]When he left, the organization from top to bottom had come together as a team and was coming off a playoff run after the death of ST. To a man, the players, coaches and FO pointed to Gibbs as the influence that brought the team through and gave them the fire to continue.

The more I see of Zorn the coach, I am convinced that the 6-2 start to the 2008 season was a direct result of Gibbs influence the prior year. But for Gibbs, the 6-2 start would not have occurred. Further, (and I know this is the "what if" game), had Gibbs returned in 2008, the team would have found a way into the playoffs again.

Without Gibbs to exert some influence over DS, Cerrato and his toxic attitude became the main character of the organization. This was exhibited almost from day one when Vinny's people intimated that G.Williams bad mouthed Gibbs. That set the tone for the next two years.

The only thing Gibbs did not do that he should have done is said "Dan, Vinny's attitude and relationship with everyone else in football sucks. He cannot be in a position of control within this organization if it is to succeed."

[B]To assert that Gibbs didn't raise the team out of the Spurrier Chaos or that it didn't immediately sink back into the Cerrato Toxic Dump without him, is IMHO not debatable.[/B][/quote]

Best sentence in this thread.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

We don't need Gibb's in any fashion! When Gibbs was here, and running things the second time, who did he bring in outside of Sean Taylor who is gone, thats panned out, Jason Campbell, Carlos Rogers, ARE, Joe Bugel, (which someone needs to tell him, that that 1980 Scheme isn't working in the year 20 09, if he was here, we wouldnt have D-Hall, which has worked out great, he is getting votes for the Pro Bowl, we wouldn't have Haynesworth, which under the guidence of a great defense Coordinator, wow. Mike Sellers, who is a great special teams player, but when it come to being a fullback, he is not selling out that big body, he is a over-rated, watch run against the Chief's, he blocking up field and falls down to a DB, and Portis gets tackled, result....FG, we need to clean house of all of Joe Gibbs aquisitions, bring in a whole new staff, from GM, HC, OC, DC, STC, take the best of what we got, build a line first on offense, signed Campbell to a one year deal, Draft anyone except "Bradford" in two years our offense should catch up with the Defense, because its said we are not a top 10 team with the talent we have, we on our way to a 4-12 season, and we wont even be a top 5 draft team, which says how said we are as team, cause those other teams, dont have any talent. Bottom line. Pass on any Gibbs help. Start fresh

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;621140]When he left, the organization from top to bottom had come together as a team and was coming off a playoff run after the death of ST. To a man, the players, coaches and FO pointed to Gibbs as the influence that brought the team through and gave them the fire to continue.

The more I see of Zorn the coach, I am convinced that the 6-2 start to the 2008 season was a direct result of Gibbs influence the prior year. But for Gibbs, the 6-2 start would not have occurred. Further, (and I know this is the "what if" game), had Gibbs returned in 2008, the team would have found a way into the playoffs again.

Without Gibbs to exert some influence over DS, Cerrato and his toxic attitude became the main character of the organization. This was exhibited almost from day one when Vinny's people intimated that G.Williams bad mouthed Gibbs. That set the tone for the next two years.

The only thing Gibbs did not do that he should have done is said "Dan, Vinny's attitude and relationship with everyone else in football sucks. He cannot be in a position of control within this organization if it is to succeed."

To assert that Gibbs didn't raise the team out of the Spurrier Chaos or that it didn't immediately sink back into the Cerrato Toxic Dump without him, is IMHO not debatable.[/quote]

Well said!! Many people bash Gibbs about bad trading picks and making bad moves during Gibbs II. How the hell do we know that it wasn't Danny or Vinny that wanted this moves made and Joe just appeased them? We don't know what went on behind the scenes, we just assume.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;621156]Well said!! Many people bash Gibbs about bad trading picks and making bad moves during Gibbs II. How the hell do we know that it wasn't Danny or Vinny that wanted this moves made and Joe just appeased them? We don't know what went on behind the scenes, we just assume.[/quote]

Well, that's kinda the point. If Gibbs was there and we still aquired mediocre talent, regardless of who was responsible, the fact remains Joe Gibbs was a part of this organization at that time. Yes, we were better. But anyone watching the Skins during his final season, could tell we were running on fumes.

My fundamental question is what has changed since Gibbs has left? Did he suddenly gain some magic touch to get people to come here that he didn't possess the second time around. Personally, I love Joe Gibbs as much as the next guy. And I know you guys are tired of hearing me beat this dead horse whenever a Joe Gibbs thread crops up. I just don't buy the notion that Danny [I]only [/I]listens to Gibbs and he's the key to bringing in the "right" people. Somthing just ain't right about that.

We need to move on and start fresh. For the record, I don't want Dan Snyder to sell the team. We're about to possibly enter an un-capped era. So I want an owner as financially committed to success and winning as Synder seems to be. It's not his motive that anyone questions, it's his methods.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

Gibbs has moved on, let everybody here do so as well.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=Buster;621110]We've seen this happen TWICE also.[/quote]

Yes! I point my finger JG1 for leaving us high an dry with aged players. I can't blame JG2 for the second time. Although he left abruptly he left us with GW and a half decent scheme. Everyone kept clammering that they needed a better QB, better WR's, and a pass rush. I am to blame as well. I think now had we beefed up the O-line even Al Saunders might have been able to get his system to work.

Whats sad is we have no passing game and now no running game to go along with a top notch defense. We complained about AS not taking shots down field with his offensive scheme, then go out to pick up a "high scoring WCO," and in reality we regressed. I almost, almost welcome AS's offensive scheme more these days.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

Letting GW go was a mistake...really could he have been any more a loser then things are now? Who really needs to go is Vinny !!!! He killed the 49ers and he is doing the same here!

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=skinsguy;621102]I don't know why it is that every time the subject of Joe Gibbs being in a position of team president comes up, people automatically assume that means the same thing as GM.

And furthermore, why is it that people say "let's not look to the past but the future" and then say they'd take Bill Parcells as team president? It's the same difference. If Gibbs could build a successful racing team, surely he can build a successful football franchise...a sport he has been successful with in the past.
[/quote]
Let's just hire any successful businesman then. I vote for that guy who made billions in a decade from Snyder Communications!

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;621140]When he left, the organization from top to bottom had come together as a team and was coming off a playoff run after the death of ST. To a man, the players, coaches and FO pointed to Gibbs as the influence that brought the team through and gave them the fire to continue.

The more I see of Zorn the coach, I am convinced that the 6-2 start to the 2008 season was a direct result of Gibbs influence the prior year. But for Gibbs, the 6-2 start would not have occurred. Further, (and I know this is the "what if" game), had Gibbs returned in 2008, the team would have found a way into the playoffs again.

Without Gibbs to exert some influence over DS, Cerrato and his toxic attitude became the main character of the organization. This was exhibited almost from day one when Vinny's people intimated that G.Williams bad mouthed Gibbs. That set the tone for the next two years.

The only thing Gibbs did not do that he should have done is said "Dan, Vinny's attitude and relationship with everyone else in football sucks. He cannot be in a position of control within this organization if it is to succeed."

To assert that Gibbs didn't raise the team out of the Spurrier Chaos or that it didn't immediately sink back into the Cerrato Toxic Dump without him, is IMHO not debatable.[/quote]

No one loves or respects Joe Gibbs as much as I do. He's one of my idols. As fas as football is concerned he has never shown any ability to pick players. His strenghts are being a leader of men, managing people, being a great game day coach during Gibbs 1 and so forth. When has he ever put a professional football front office together? NEVER. He made numerous blunders coaching and in personel when he came back. But one thing he ( AND GREG WILLIAMS) did was bring back some dignity and respectability to the franchise. Williams isn't getting a lot of credit but he played a HUGE role here. His defense won that playoff game in TB. That is gone out the window now. But as far as what's on the field I don't think Gibbs could've done much with last years team. The same problems that Gibbs had, Zorn is having...game mgt issues, wasting TO's, shitty playcalling, an inability to score points. The best thing for Dan S. to do is call someone who is qualified to run a front office for today's NFL. That guy is not Joe Gibbs.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;621156]Well said!! Many people bash Gibbs about bad trading picks and making bad moves during Gibbs II. How the hell do we know that it wasn't Danny or Vinny that wanted this moves made and Joe just appeased them? We don't know what went on behind the scenes, we just assume.[/quote]

They're all at fault. Gibbs traded away picks for Brunell when he was going to be cut. We gave up an extra number one to pick Campbell. I could go on and on. Some of what went on here is on Gibbs and we'd be foolish to think otherwise.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=skinsfan69;621207]They're all at fault. Gibbs traded away picks for Brunell when he was going to be cut. We [B]gave up an extra number one to pick Campbell[/B]. I could go on and on. Some of what went on here is on Gibbs and we'd be foolish to think otherwise.[/quote]

Wrong. I always correct people on this, it may be my biggest wp pet pieve. We swapped #1 picks (our 06 for their 05) & gave up a 3rd. The net result was we had to give them a 3rd, which is a high pick, but it's not a number one.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=freddyg12;621217]Wrong. I always correct people on this, it may be my biggest wp pet pieve. We swapped #1 picks (our 06 for their 05) & gave up a 3rd. The net result was we had to give them a 3rd, which is a high pick, but it's not a number one.[/quote]

Oh...I didn't know that!

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=Daseal;621136][B]Can someone explain to me the roles of a Team President then if they have nothing to do with player acquisition? [/B] I like Gibbs as a person and a motivator, but he's no longer a football person. His offense while he was in the league was one of the worst -- and the only reason we stayed competitive was because of Greg Williams and his attacking dominant defense. His player acquisitions were built for short term winning (which we didn't do), undersized receivers, and no thought to the future. Why have we gone downhill since he left? I think that's pretty easy. Offensive line age/injuries, Clinton Portis getting destroyed from 6000 carries per season, and a change on the defensive side.

I'm not trying to kill Gibbs. While I don't agree with a lot of his philosophies and stances in life, I certainly respect them and he's done nothing but good for mankind. He's an amazing leader with an uncanny gift to lead. I just don't think football is a place for him anymore. After he quit the skins, it looks like he was 10 years younger after about two months. Football requires a dedication that consumes all of an individuals time and energy, he doesn't need that anymore -- I'm worried it would kill him, to be completely honest.

Keep racing. Enjoy your family. Hang out on that lake in South Carolina, and answer Danny's calls when he needs some real advice. Besides that, enjoy 'retirement.'

To whoever said if you can build a great racing team you can build a great football team. Come on. The difficulty of assembling an NFL team vs. assembling a NASCAR team isn't even comparable. His position in NASCAR is basically spend a lot of money, get a few amazing engineers, and hope for a lot of luck on race day. It's all about having the best equipment out there, something a salary cap and contracts greatly limit in the NFL.[/quote]

The Team President's main role is to oversee the hiring/firing of a General Manager and/or a Head Coach. The General Manager's main duty is player acquisition. The head coach is (or should be) responsible for building his coaching staff around him, some input into player acquisition, and of course coaching the team.

If Joe Gibbs is hired as a Team President, he would not be directly involved with player acquisition. Whoever the GM is would be mainly responsible for that. Since Joe Gibbs is great with surrounding himself around the right people to have the best chance at succeeding, then I think personally this position as Team President would be right up his alley.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=tryfuhl;621204]Let's just hire any successful businesman then. I vote for that guy who made billions in a decade from Snyder Communications![/quote]

Yeah, and that seems to be working just fine for us right now. :rolleyes:

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=skinsfan69;621106]Sorry but the team was not really in that good of shape. Barely getting to the playoffs and losing in the first round doesn't do it for me. Let's face it, that was a miracle run and the team probably over achieved a bit. Getting a Dallas team that laid down the last game of the year helped as well. And he is part to blame for trading away draft picks and leaving the team w/out any quality depth. He, Vinny and Dan are all to blame.[/quote]

So you feel the team was left in awesome shape when Steve Spurrier left? I'm sorry, but two winning, playoff seasons under Joe Gibbs is much better than two seasons of below .500 football with Spurrier. Therefore, yes, Joe Gibbs did leave us in much better shape.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=skinsguy;621228]So you feel the team was left in awesome shape when Steve Spurrier left? I'm sorry, but two winning, playoff seasons under Joe Gibbs is much better than two seasons of below .500 football with Spurrier. Therefore, yes, Joe Gibbs did leave us in much better shape.[/quote]

I agree. Gibbs and Williams left the team in better shape.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=skinsfan69;621235]I agree. Gibbs and Williams left the team in better shape.[/quote]

Gibbs unquestionably left the team in better shape, considering what he had to work with. The problems began in the 2008 draft when you draft 2 under performing WR and a below-average TE in high rounds. Had they picked OL we would not be in this situation because they would have had plenty of playing time as fast as our line gets injured. Where is Pete Kendall? What about Fabini? There are a number of reliable back ups out there who could do a better job than Mike Williams or Will Montgomery. Just another example of the front office FAILING! At least when Joe Gibbs was here he could take an average group and make them competitive, now we have nothing.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

Fuck it who cares!

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=atomicnixon;621353]Gibbs unquestionably left the team in better shape, considering what he had to work with. The problems began in the 2008 draft when you draft 2 under performing WR and a below-average TE in high rounds. Had they picked OL we would not be in this situation because they would have had plenty of playing time as fast as our line gets injured. Where is Pete Kendall? What about Fabini? There are a number of reliable back ups out there who could do a better job than Mike Williams or Will Montgomery. Just another example of the front office FAILING! At least when Joe Gibbs was here he could take an average group and make them competitive, now we have nothing.[/quote]


I agree. Although at the time we were screaming for the 'skins to draft some wide receivers to push Santana Moss and Randel El. Unfortunately so far, we haven't seen this from Malcom Kelly, but Thomas appears to be doing a little more this year than last year (which isn't saying much.) But yes, other than the Derrick Dockery signing (which wasn't a big time signing) we haven't really addressed the offensive line like we should have. Of course, drafting players is a fine art. You have to balance needs verses drafting the best players who are available when your team is on the clock. This is where trading up or down becomes mightily important in order to draft the best players for your areas of need.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=skinsfan69;621207]They're all at fault. Gibbs traded away picks for Brunell when he was going to be cut. We gave up an extra number one to pick Campbell. I could go on and on. Some of what went on here is on Gibbs and we'd be foolish to think otherwise.[/quote]

Gibbs did hinder our future by drafting Carlos Rodgers over Aaron Rogers IMO.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=Kalisto2010;621376]Gibbs did hinder our future by drafting Carlos Rodgers over Aaron Rogers IMO.[/quote]

you could also throw both of dallas' d ends in that group spears and ware, and roddy white was drafted right after campbell too, regardless of who was in charge our drafting over the past 10 years has been pretty terrible we need a reallygood talent evaluator, someone who will actually do that instead of hosting radio shows and playing racquetball

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=Kalisto2010;621376]Gibbs did hinder our future by drafting Carlos Rodgers over Aaron Rogers IMO.[/quote]

Hindsight is 20/20. Do we even know if it was possible for us to get Aaron Rogers at the time and still be able to get a high draft pick CB?

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=skinsguy;621530]Hindsight is 20/20. Do we even know if it was possible for us to get Aaron Rogers at the time and still be able to get a high draft pick CB?[/quote]

Before drafting Rogers our defense was already one of the best in the NFL. We didn't really need a CB, all we had to do was resign Smoot and draft A. Rogers. Rogers was projected to be a top 10 pick, he would of been perfect in our offense. If A. Rogers was our QB for the last 2 years, not doubt we would of been serious contenders in the NFC.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

Joe Gibbs cannot escape blame for some idiotic personnel moves when he was Team President. For anyone to imply that everything he did was golden is denying reality.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=Beemnseven;621546]Joe Gibbs cannot escape blame for some idiotic personnel moves when he was Team President. For anyone to imply that everything he did was golden is denying reality.[/quote]

I don't think anyone is implying that. What Gibbs did is bring back is winning and playoffs back to Washington. He brought back pride in being a Redskin. That is what makes him golden.
Winning football games is what it is all about.
Gibbs is gone and Snyderatto has been calling the shots the last two years and we are back to being a terrible team. So that ultimate blame goes to Snyderatto, if you believe otherwise you are denying reality.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=Defensewins;621548]I don't think anyone is implying that. What Gibbs did is bring back is winning and playoffs back to Washington. He brought back pride in being a Redskin. That is what makes him golden.
Winning football games is what it is all about.
Gibbs is gone and Snyderatto has been calling the shots the last two years and we are back to being a terrible team. So that ultimate blame goes to Snyderatto, if you believe otherwise you are denying reality.[/quote]

I beg to differ. Gibbs was here for four years and most definitely had say in personnel decisions and the direction of the organization. As far as I'm concerned, he's just as complicit as Snyderatto. That too is reality.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=Defensewins;621548]I don't think anyone is implying that. What Gibbs did is bring back is winning and playoffs back to Washington. He brought back pride in being a Redskin. That is what makes him golden.
Winning football games is what it is all about.
Gibbs is gone and Snyderatto has been calling the shots the last two years and we are back to being a terrible team. So that ultimate blame goes to Snyderatto, if you believe otherwise you are denying reality.[/quote]

I want to add one more thing. Sometimes I get the impression that Skins fans are more concerned about style points than actually winning. Like you know, if Joe Gibbs comes back and we're still losers but he restores this sense of "pride", it somehow makes it all better. Hey we suck, but at least Gibbs is here. I couldn't care less who's here, I just want this team to win and I'm not convinced that Gibbs wouldn't end up being more of an impediment than actually moving the ball forward in a meaningful way.

I can tell you this, if Gibbs comes back, in any capacity, the pressure will be unbelievably high. The fans will expect instant results. No five or three year plan to right the ship. That's the downside to bringing Gibbs back, in my opinion.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=12thMan;621553]I want to add one more thing. Sometimes I get the impression that Skins fans are more concerned about style points than actually winning. Like you know, if Joe Gibbs comes back and we're still losers but he restores this sense of "pride", it somehow makes it all better. Hey we suck, but at least Gibbs is here. I couldn't care less who's here, I just want this team to win and I'm not convinced that Gibbs wouldn't end up being more of an impediment than actually moving the ball forward in a meaningful way.

[B]I can tell you this, if Gibbs comes back, in any capacity, the pressure will be unbelievably high. The fans will expect instant results. No five or three year plan to right the ship. That's the downside to bringing Gibbs back, in my opinion.[/B][/quote]

I think that you are right about that.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=12thMan;621552]I beg to differ. Gibbs was here for four years and most definitely had say in personnel decisions and the direction of the organization. As far as I'm concerned, he's just as complicit as Snyderatto. That too is reality.[/quote]

Did you even read my post. First sentence I said "I don't think anyone is implying that." In reply to Beenseven post, " Joe Gibbs cannot escape blame for some idiotic personnel moves when he was Team President. For anyone to imply that everything he did was golden is denying reality."

I was saying (YES!) Gibbs cannot escape part of the blame for some of the really bad personnel moves. You are so bent on your rant to blame Gibbs you did not even notice I was agreeing with part blaming Gibbs for our mess. Wipe the steam from your glasses man.
My point was Gibbs brought back winning, playoffs and respect to the Redskins. That is all.
Snyderatto in less than two years since Gibbs left has crashed us into the ground. Personnel issues is not the only thing to blame here, it is also the leadership of our FO and the coaching mess that was created AFTER GIBBS LEFT. You know, the hiring a offensive coordinator first before hiring a HC. Then giving Zorn the HC position after the best candidates passed on the job, then later stripping Zorn of his man-hood. Talk about style points that takes the cake. Not to mention all the other stuff Snyderatto has done this year that do not need to be repeated.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

I only wish that Gibbs had stood up for Gregg Williams when Vinny was throwing dirt on GW. As President of Football Operations, Joe's opinion would have carried greater credence with Snyder than Vinny's. If Gibbs does come back, I want it in more of a CEO role, where he puts the best GM in place, and leaves it to that guy to help select the coach and the future personnel. Gibbs 2.0 personnel record was spotty at best. Sean Taylor, and Chris Cooley from his first draft were home runs, but much that came thereafter in FA and the draft has vastly underachieved.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=12thMan;621553]I want to add one more thing. Sometimes I get the impression that Skins fans are more concerned about style points than actually winning. Like you know, if Joe Gibbs comes back and we're still losers but he restores this sense of "pride", it somehow makes it all better. Hey we suck, but at least Gibbs is here. I couldn't care less who's here, I just want this team to win and I'm not convinced that Gibbs wouldn't end up being more of an impediment than actually moving the ball forward in a meaningful way.

I can tell you this, if Gibbs comes back, in any capacity, the pressure will be unbelievably high. The fans will expect instant results. No five or three year plan to right the ship. That's the downside to bringing Gibbs back, in my opinion.[/quote]

I don't believe anybody actually feels that way about Joe Gibbs like you suggest, but that we understand the fact that if Gibbs does come back, Snyder will listen to him and no Vinny Cerrato....which is a good thing for the team. I'm not saying everything Gibbs touches turns to gold by any stretch, but comparing what he did while he was here to what happened before his second tenure and after his second tenure is worlds better.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

Hey we dont need Gibbs back. He was a great coach, and thats al i am going to say about that. If Gibbs comes back that will probably be a license to keep all the idiots that we have now. Like VC and much of the coaching staff. We need a GM that is well thought of, that will clean house and start over.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

Just curious, what has anyone heard recently about JG returning anyway? No offense to the author of this thread, but isn't it time to move on and bury any notion of JG coming back? Besides, he'd be nuts to come back to this wreck.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=SouperMeister;622409][B]I only wish that Gibbs had stood up for Gregg Williams when Vinny was throwing dirt on GW. As President of Football Operations, Joe's opinion would have carried greater credence with Snyder than Vinny's. [/B]If Gibbs does come back, I want it in more of a CEO role, where he puts the best GM in place, and leaves it to that guy to help select the coach and the future personnel. Gibbs 2.0 personnel record was spotty at best. Sean Taylor, and Chris Cooley from his first draft were home runs, but much that came thereafter in FA and the draft has vastly underachieved.[/quote]

Gibbs had already stepped down at that point. That's why we were looking for a new HC to begin with.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

Joe apparently did not want Vinny when he came back and it was at Danny's insistance that he accepted him. He also said that his choice for his successor was Greg Williams as that was the first thing he did (went to Buffalo on Snyder's plane) when he became the coach of the Redskins in 2004. Gibbs has a pretty good idea of how to build an organization, I only wish Danny had not thrown it all away!

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=skinsfan0201;622971]Joe apparently did not want Vinny when he came back and it was at Danny's insistance that he accepted him. He also said that his choice for his successor was Greg Williams as that was the first thing he did (went to Buffalo on Snyder's plane) when he became the coach of the Redskins in 2004. Gibbs has a pretty good idea of how to build an organization, I only wish Danny had not thrown it all away![/quote]

So if Gibbs came back, do you think Danny will suddenly take his advice and recommendations? \

Just asking an honest question here.

Re: Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update
 

[quote=skinsfan0201;622971][B]Joe apparently did not want Vinny when he came back and it was at Danny's insistance that he accepted him. [/B] He also said that his choice for his successor was Greg Williams as that was the first thing he did (went to Buffalo on Snyder's plane) when he became the coach of the Redskins in 2004. Gibbs has a pretty good idea of how to build an organization, I only wish Danny had not thrown it all away![/quote]

Got a link for that?