Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

I honestly thought it was a mistake getting rid of Marty S. in the first place. That was the type of structure the Redskins needed.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[quote=skinsguy;626314]I honestly thought it was a mistake getting rid of Marty S. in the first place. That was the type of structure the Redskins needed.[/quote]

i'm positive we would have won atleast 1 superbowl if Snyder had stuck with marty for the past 10 years. by all accounts the man is arrogant and hard to get along with, but his record speaks for itself. i think if we had had some sort of "buffer" between marty and snyder things would have gone much differently than they have.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

I know we keep throwing around big names like Shanahan and Holmgren, do you all think there may be any dark horses?

Still need to get rid of Vinny if anything is going to start turning around.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[quote=TheSmurfs22;626336]I know we keep throwing around big names like Shanahan and Holmgren, do you all think there may be any dark horses?

Still need to get rid of Vinny if anything is going to start turning around.[/quote]

I think that's where a good Front Office person for a good eye for talent needs to be brought in so we can find those dark horse candidates.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

If the Front Office structure stayed relatively the same, then a potential sleeper candidate is Ron Meeks. Snyder supposedly really liked him last off-season.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[quote=SmootSmack;626357]If the Front Office structure stayed relatively the same, then a potential sleeper candidate is Ron Meeks. Snyder supposedly really liked him last off-season.[/quote]

Interesting! Haven't thought about Ron Meeks.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[quote=Paintrain;626152]But logically Zorn would have to be gone before Snyder can attempt to land a coach like you previously named. I wonder if we'd even be having the 'what if' discussion if Denver would have blown our doors off yesterday.

I still say there's no way that Zorn stays. Lewis isn't going to want to return next year and Snyder won't sit idly by and ignore how bad it's been since last October. [B]The only thing that saves Zorn is about 9 more straight wins.[/B][/quote]
I guess I'm forced on to the save Zorn bandwagon then! (I'll take 9 straight wins -haters can hush) Seriously, if he can accept not calling plays, and we can get some OL help, maybe Sherm Smith goes, and a young playcaller comes in, why couldn't Zorn stay? My biggest knock on him was and is playcalling/stubborness, but if he can adapt, and lead this team in an end of year turnaround (not saying he can or will) then maybe he could be head coach.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[quote=SmootSmack;626357]If the Front Office structure stayed relatively the same, then a potential sleeper candidate is Ron Meeks. Snyder supposedly really liked him last off-season.[/quote]

If the front office structure remains the same, i can tell you i won't be giving a crap anymore - i'll be rooting for another team. everyone has a limit and mine is about reached. you have to draw the line somewhere and i've made my decision.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[quote=SmootSmack;626357]If the Front Office structure stayed relatively the same, [B]then a potential sleeper candidate is Ron Meeks. Snyder
supposedly really liked him last off-season[/B].[/quote]

Maybe he did then but there wasn't much available two off season's ago. I do not see Meeks coming here unless BC takes the Panthers HC gig and fires Meeks.

And he happens to land here in the D-Cord. capacity.

I believe Dan is looking to bring in an experienced/pedigree HC that has already WON a Super Bowl. Nothing less.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[quote=Mattyk72;626038]Crazy thought here, but what if the team somehow manages to pull it together down the stretch and finish around .500? Do we still dump Zorn?[/quote]

I was just having this discussion with my son yesterday after the win. I think the worst thing we could do at this point is finish out strong. The beginning of the season will be forgotten by Syneratto... nothing would get fixed.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;626366]If the front office structure remains the same, i can tell you i won't be giving a crap anymore - i'll be rooting for another team. everyone has a limit and mine is about reached. you have to draw the line somewhere and i've made my decision.[/quote]

Funny, I'm not at the point where I would totally say I won't call the Skins my team but I definitly get jealous when I change the Colts play decent ball all evening and then I see them throw an interception with 7min. left in the game down by 17 points needing 2 TD's and a field goal, I change the channel knowing they won't get the ball enough times in 7 min. and later see that they won 35-34. Points on the board, clock management, 2min drills, ......it does make me wonder what it would be like having a team like that.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[quote=Hogroll;626371]I was just having this discussion with my son yesterday after the win. I think the worst thing we could do at this point is finish out strong. The beginning of the season will be forgotten by Syneratto... nothing would get fixed.[/quote]

Agreed. While I love seeing us win, I don't think short term success this year (which at this point means nothing more than 7 or 8 wins) will do us any good in the future. It will only cater to Danny's thinking that he may have the right structure in place. As much as it pains me to say so, I hope we fall flat on our face just enough to force Danny to make wholesale changes. Maybe that's already happened.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

If we do somehow win out we would have beaten some rather good teams along the way and maybe this whole thing wasnt as bad as it seemed early on. Now I highly doubt that happens but if it does there is no way Snyder blows things up anyways. He might even just insist we go O-line with our first pick just to please the fans.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

Just for the record, whoever doesn't think that Mike Shanahan is a good coach needs to pull their heads out of their $%#@^&. He needs to be kept away from player selection, HOWEVER, this man can coach some serious football. He would be the BEST case scenario.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[quote=Skins4Eva;626844]Just for the record, whoever doesn't think that Mike Shanahan is a good coach needs to pull their heads out of their $%#@^&. He needs to be kept away from player selection, HOWEVER, this man can coach some serious football. He would be the BEST case scenario.[/quote]

I'm not sure that he would accept a coaching-only gig. This was a reason for his departure from Denver.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[quote=Skins4Eva;626844]Just for the record, whoever doesn't think that Mike Shanahan is a good coach needs to pull their heads out of their $%#@^&. He needs to be kept away from player selection, HOWEVER, this man can coach some serious football. He would be the BEST case scenario.[/quote]

It's funny, there really isn't a consensus on anyone it seems. No matter what Super Bowl caliber name you toss out there, someone loves him and someone says he's garbage.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

I think you'd have a hard time firing Zorn if we 8-8. Heck if we go 7-9, I think you have to think twice about it. As much as he probably deserves to get canned, memories will be real short if this guy pullis it together.

And would it be the end of the world if we fired a coach after three seasons instead of two?

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[quote=Mattyk72;626873]It's funny, there really isn't a consensus on anyone it seems. No matter what Super Bowl caliber name you toss out there, someone loves him and someone says he's garbage.[/quote]

Except Cowher... the one coach we have absolutely no chance in hell of landing.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[quote=SBXVII;626432]Funny, I'm not at the point where I would totally say I won't call the Skins my team but I definitly get jealous when I change the Colts play decent ball all evening and then I see them throw an interception with 7min. left in the game down by 17 points needing 2 TD's and a field goal, I change the channel knowing they won't get the ball enough times in 7 min. and later see that they won 35-34. Points on the board, clock management, 2min drills, ......it does make me wonder what it would be like having a team like that.[/quote]

I don't think the team itself is anything special. They just have Peyton Manning. Without Manning, the team would be mediocre at best. Peyton makes everyone around him better. Their player acquisition (free agency and the draft) is merely average. Guys who become "stars" in Indy would be fighting for roster spots on many other teams. Offensive players who leave Indy rarely have similar levels of success elsewhere. The team's success is 100% Manning. When he goes, they'll be perennial 6-10 to 10-6 team.

That said, like you, i absolutely love watching Manning play. I'm personnaly rooting for a Colts-Vikings superbowl... although a part of me wants Dallas to make it to the big game... if only because it would be a total fluke and force Jerry to keep that shmuck of a head coach around a while longer. Potential high caliber HC candidates are dwindling, and, the way i see it, its goiing to come down to Dallas and the Skins bidding against eachother for Shanahan. Now, personnally, i'm not that big of a fan of the guy, but he's the best out there that we have a chance to get, and it would allow us to keep some continuity in offensive philosophy. If Jerrys "forced" to keep Phillips, then we're almost assured to land Shanahan.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[I][B]12thMan[/B][/I]:I think you'd have a hard time firing Zorn if we 8-8. Heck if we go 7-9, I think you have to think twice about it. As much as he probably deserves to get canned, memories will be real short if this guy pullis it together.

And would it be the end of the world if we fired a coach after three seasons instead of two?

I don't think so. I think DS has made up his mind. He's done with this expierement. I think Zorn would have to go 10-7 or better for DS to keep Zorn. As some feared and thought I think Sherm Lewis came in and fixed Zorn's messed up offense. Somewhat. If anyone were to stay I would imagine that DS would keep Lewis and give him a full year to see what he can do. not that I want that to happen.

[I][B]BigHaire[/B][/I]:The team's success is 100% Manning.

I don't doubt you. What I do like is the fact that the offense does work. The team has kept Tim Moore's offense for 12 yrs. For 12 yrs it has been the most prolific offense in the league. I think bringing in Moore for 3-4 season's to help rebuild this team and change the players to fit his scheme would be a great thing. People have clamoured for Chris Polian as GM, well I would say lets bring him in and bring Moore with him. See if we can bring in Christensen who is the Asst. OC/WR coach as our OC and "if" Manning wants to get away from playing cause of his age then see about bringing him also to be QB coach. I think he would be able to help pick a QB through the draft to teach Moore's system.

I simply like the whole clock management and 2 min drill they use during games. I wish we had that clock awareness and scoring ability.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;626904]I don't think the team itself is anything special. They just have Peyton Manning. Without Manning, the team would be mediocre at best. Peyton makes everyone around him better. Their player acquisition (free agency and the draft) is merely average. Guys who become "stars" in Indy would be fighting for roster spots on many other teams. Offensive players who leave Indy rarely have similar levels of success elsewhere. The team's success is 100% Manning. When he goes, they'll be perennial 6-10 to 10-6 team.

That said, like you, i absolutely love watching Manning play. I'm personnaly rooting for a Colts-Vikings superbowl... although a part of me wants Dallas to make it to the big game... if only because it would be a total fluke and force Jerry to keep that shmuck of a head coach around a while longer. Potential high caliber HC candidates are dwindling, and, the way i see it, its goiing to come down to Dallas and the Skins bidding against eachother for Shanahan. Now, personnally, i'm not that big of a fan of the guy, but he's the best out there that we have a chance to get, and it would allow us to keep some continuity in offensive philosophy. If Jerrys "forced" to keep Phillips, then we're almost assured to land Shanahan.[/quote]Wait, if the Colts player acquisition (specifically on defense) is average, how do they spend 20% (if that) of the resources we put into our defense and get a better product? Is the answer Peyton Manning? Because you're leading me in that direction.

The Colts are a premier organization and are loaded with talent. Peyton Manning is the most obvious example of that talent (but he was also the first overall pick, and not some scouting find), but Reggie Wayne and Anthony Gonzalez would both be number one receivers in Washington while Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie would be unquestioned No. 2s. Dallas Clark is one of maybe three or four NFL TEs who is better than Cooley.

Peyton does make people around him better, but the Colts aren't just a bunch of guys. This team has been built over 8-10 years. They weren't a great team in the early part of the decade, just a great offense, but since 2005, they've been the NFL's premier team, and on both sides of the ball as well.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

Sorry clicked "enter" too soon.

I also like the fact that Moore is 70 so a 3-4 yr contract would not be too bad, then let him retire and let Christensen step into the role as HC, he's only 53 I think. When he move up to HC we could hopefully move Manning to OC to help teach the offense and run it. Maybe someday P.Manning could be HC? if he's not bad at coaching.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[quote=skinsfan69;626031]Good for him. I really don't want him here anyway.[/quote]

Ditto...

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

The Colts only ever offer extensions to the players who are among the top 5, or charitably 10 at their position. They have like 13 or 15 players accounting for 85% of their payroll, and are a very deep team because they have 35 or so players on their rookie contract, but all of those players could start for some team in the NFL.

The Colts are a premier organization because they don't allow being close to the cap to affect the way they do business. They are always close to it, but never extend a player who can't help them win championships in the future.

By comparison, since 2006: Portis, Moss, Randy Thomas, Jansen, Samuels, Griffin, Hall, Randle El, Carter, Betts, Cooley, Daniels, Collins, Sellers, Brunell, and Springs have all gotten lucrative extensions from this organization. Certainly, there's names in there who have been near the top of their position and deserve big bucks, but I'd say less than a third of that list qualify to be extended by the standards the Colts have set.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[quote=SBXVII;626925]Sorry clicked "enter" too soon.

I also like the fact that Moore is 70 so a 3-4 yr contract would not be too bad, then let him retire and let Christensen step into the role as HC, he's only 53 I think. When he move up to HC we could hopefully move Manning to OC to help teach the offense and run it. Maybe someday P.Manning could be HC? if he's not bad at coaching.[/quote]

You want Tom Moore to be our head coach?

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[quote=SmootSmack;626934]You want Tom Moore to be our head coach?[/quote]

Look I know it sound funny. It just came to me. No I don't relish someone 70yrs old being our HC, but I do like what he has brought to the table as the OC. Basically it's his offense being run there. He's not a rookie coach we would have to worry about getting the job done. He's coached for 40+yrs, been in the NFL for 32, and been an OC for 22yrs, and has been with the Colts for the last 12yrs. Clearly his offense works, clearly he helped turn the Colts around, clearly he helped make the offense one of the most prolific offense in the league. I'm guessing he helped the offense use good clock management. Ok, I think I laid the basis for why I would want him, but I agree he's old, but not old enough he can't help out a franchise for 3-4 yrs standing on the sideline calling the plays into the QB helmit. Unless his health is horrible?

Well I was suggesting Clyde Christensen be the OC learning under Moore but having gone and looked at their coaching roster I see Clyde is Asst. HC/WR coach. Maybe we could simply make Clyde the HC and hopefully he could bring in someone to help teach/coach the offense to the players. Why? cause people are talking about bringing in a young GM possibly Chris Polian, Assuming he understands how to build a team from his father and understands the type of players needed for the Colts scheme, then it would be wise to bring in someone who can help him build a team and someone he can help get the players for the system needed to run the scheme. Basically we raid the Colts team for coach's and "rebuild" this team from the top down. Turn this team into a high prolific offense to go with the top 5 defense we have.

Simply thinking that perhaps bringing in the young GM and some of the coach's from the Colts might bring to the Skins an offense that can move the ball and is proven. Also people were quick to want Chris Polian brought in but keep in mind he brought in players for a specific scheme style. You really don't want him to deviate from what he's used to or we might have players brought in for the wrong style of play ie; Gibbs oversized and aged O-lineman compared to a WCO which employ's a smaller speedier O-lineman.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

Isn't Moore like a part-time consultant for the Colts now? Sure he's done great things in Indy, but I'm sure it didn't hurt having Peyton there as well to execute it. I suppose he could like what Dan Henning is doing in Miami, but to ask him to be a head coach (and a head coach in Washington, DC no less) is asking too much I think.

Re: Gruden to Return to ESPN
 

[quote=SmootSmack;627062][B]Isn't Moore like a part-time consultant for the Colts now? [/B]Sure he's done great things in Indy, but I'm sure it didn't hurt having Peyton there as well to execute it. I suppose he could like what Dan Henning is doing in Miami, but to ask him to be a head coach (and a head coach in Washington, DC no less) is asking too much I think.[/quote]

I don't know? He's listed as the SR. Offensive Co-ordinator. Maybe I missunderstood and it stands for Senior Citizen OC? LOL. just kidding. I "Assumed" that "Sr. OC" meant he was the OC. Maybe he is just a consultant and shows up twice a week and on Sun. Honestly I don't know but whoever the master mind of the offense is we need him. I doubt it was P.Manning, although he does understand this offense well and orchistrates it well. I feel he could help in teaching/coaching any new QB and help in bringing the offense to DC.

If it's not Moore then forget him. I was simply trying to tie in a young GM who a lot of people have mentioned they would like to see here, and bringing in the scheme and knowledge of clock management and scoring ablility to DC. Maybe I should have said Clyde Christensen since he is the Asst. HC/WR coach right now. Maybe he could fix/coach up our young WR's.