Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=12thMan;626853]If I'm the Skins I definitely don't take a QB in the first round. That strategy just doesn't make sense given the choices on the table. Even if you dump Campbell, you're essentially rebuilding in a major way with a rookie QB on this team. If they do decide to get rid of Campbell, I would think at a minimum, you bring in a second or third year vet if not a seasoned QB who can take over. We're bad, but we're not Detroit Lions or Cleveland Browns bad. We actually have a very good future, I think, with some good pieces on both sides of the ball.

We have to go offensive line in the first round. Whether Jones pans out or not, we have to draft with an eye towards the future. Other than Levi Jones, Chad Rinehart is auditioning for the rest of the season. He either cuts it as a starter now or we draft to replace him.[/quote]

That makes the most sense. Whether we'll have a football GM to see it is another matter. If it's Vinny, well we've all seen that story played out time and time again.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;626856]That makes the most sense. Whether we'll have a football GM to see it is another matter. If it's Vinny, well we've all seen that story played out time and time again.[/quote]

I think Vinny is done here. And I gotta tell you, I think we've seen the last of Santana Moss as a Redskin following this season.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=12thMan;626858]I think Vinny is done here. And I gotta tell you, I think we've seen the last of Santana Moss as a Redskin following this season.[/quote]

I hope that you are right. Maybe we can get a little something for Santana and parlay that into an offensive lineman.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=Lotus;626881]I hope that you are right. Maybe we can get a little something for Santana and parlay that into an offensive lineman.[/quote]


Lotus - that got my thinking to the good old days with your trade thought - when we traded Jay Scharder for Jim Lachey - that was simply one of the best trades that the Redskins have ever made and when it happened Al Davis should have fired his GM (can't remember if he had a GM at the time or if Al was calling the shots at that time). You don't trade an all pro left tackle that is in his prime for an moderate qb. That trade was an important reason we won the super bowl as Lachey was awesome for us. I could never see Vinny pulling that type of trade off.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

Not only did we get Lachey (who played I think just one game for the Raiders) we also got a couple of mid-round draft picks.

But Schroeder was just the kind of QB Davis likes, killer arm with a lousy attitude. Nothing's changed now with Russell leading the Raiders.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=Bill B;626913]Lotus - that got my thinking to the good old days with your trade thought - when we traded Jay Scharder for Jim Lachey - that was simply one of the best trades that the Redskins have ever made and when it happened Al Davis should have fired his GM (can't remember if he had a GM at the time or if Al was calling the shots at that time). You don't trade an all pro left tackle that is in his prime for an moderate qb. That trade was an important reason we won the super bowl as Lachey was awesome for us. I could never see Vinny pulling that type of trade off.[/quote]

Vinny and Snyder would have been on the wrong side of that trade. They love to aquire offensive skill players and neglect the Oline.
Levi had a good game against an undersized Dever defense that got killed last week by the Steelers.
Levi Jones is 30 and a history of being injury prone just like Randy Thomas and others on our Oline. We need to move away from old/injury prone lineman. At 3-6 it is time to purge ourselves of the old, injury prone and non-productive players. We are not a couple of players away from the playoffs or superbowl, so we need get away from the practice of getting older stop gap players.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=SmootSmack;626918]Not only did we get Lachey (who played I think just one game for the Raiders) we also got a couple of mid-round draft picks.

But Schroeder was just the kind of QB Davis likes, killer arm with a lousy attitude. Nothing's changed now with Russell leading the Raiders.[/quote]

Wow - we also got additional picks for that deal as well? The trade is even more of a steal than I thought!

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

He did a good job, but lets give him some more time. I still think we cannot ignore the line or otherwise we are going to be bitching about it again next year.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

Its Betts running hard is why the line played well

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=schndr_tdd;627036]Its Betts running hard is why the line played well[/quote]

I have wondered if people weren't blocking tougher because of who was running behind them. Let's see this week if there is a trend.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=Lotus;627038]I have wondered if people weren't blocking tougher because of who was running behind them. Let's see this week if there is a trend.[/quote]

Shhh...CantonLegend may come over and accuse of us bad mouthing Portis.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=12thMan;627040]Shhh...CantonLegend may come over and accuse of us bad mouthing Portis.[/quote]

And gives us an analysis based on games he "saw" on TV. But don't worry, he'll be posting pictures of clowns or other crap.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=12thMan;627040]Shhh...CantonLegend may come over and accuse of us bad mouthing Portis.[/quote]

It's actually Sellers' fault.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

So how did Levi do today? Was it me or was DeMarcus Ware pretty quiet most of the day?

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

I think Levi had some bad plays, but the left side of the line was far from the problem.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;629371]I think Levi had some bad plays, but the left side of the line was far from the problem.[/quote]

Heyer might be the worst player of all time

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

Levi is a huge improvement over Heyer at LT, no comparison.

...the FO was so effing stupid for waiting so long to grab him. Half the board here knew damn well we didn't have a half-way legit backup LT if Samuels went down. What we didn't know is how compromised Samuels was physically, something the jackasses at Redskins Park get paid a lot of money to handle.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

I think Levi handled Ware pretty well today.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=The Goat;629373]Levi is a huge improvement over Heyer at LT, no comparison.

...the FO was so effing stupid for waiting so long to grab him. Half the board here knew damn well we didn't have a half-way legit backup LT if Samuels went down. What we didn't know is how compromised Samuels was physically, something the jackasses at Redskins Park get paid a lot of money to handle.[/quote]

Well I certainly wanted Levi, but his not being here, I am convinced, was his decision. He really wasn't signing anywhere where he didn't start. My guess is he is pretty high maintenance, and full of his self importance. I am not sure he is the long term answer, we need to get more OL backup across the board.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;629384]Well I certainly wanted Levi, but his not being here, I am convinced, was his decision. He really wasn't signing anywhere where he didn't start. My guess is he is pretty high maintenance, and full of his self importance. I am not sure he is the long term answer, we need to get more OL backup across the board.[/quote]

Could you imagine if he started the season at RT instead of that bum Heyer?

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

might have been better, but also may have been a trouble maker. Read his pressers, and he thinks he is a LT, nothing else. Still wish someone could have convinced him to start at RT knowing that Samuels would have some injury time at least.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;629384]Well I certainly wanted Levi, but his not being here, I am convinced, was his decision. He really wasn't signing anywhere where he didn't start. My guess is he is pretty high maintenance, and full of his self importance. I am not sure he is the long term answer, we need to get more OL backup across the board.[/quote]

Good points all around. I guess you could say this is the point where a great personnel guy comes in...to convince Jones he should sign and start at RT because it's better than sitting at home.

...I can imagine that conversation went something like:

Vinny: Danny wants you to sign a contract and play RT.

Jones: No, I'm a LT and that's the end of it.

Vinny: (sits there not believing someone didn't grant the almighty Snyder his wish).

Conversation over...

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=The Goat;629454]Good points all around. I guess you could say this is the point where a great personnel guy comes in...to convince Jones he should sign and start at RT because it's better than sitting at home.

...I can imagine that conversation went something like:

Vinny: Danny wants you to sign a contract and play RT.

Jones: No, I'm a LT and that's the end of it.

Vinny: (sits there not believing someone didn't grant the almighty Snyder his wish).

Conversation over...[/quote]

That storys similar to what actually happened, however you're missing a few key details.

[B]Vinny[/B]: So Levi I hear that you're a pretty good football player. How would you like to come play WR for us?

[B]Jones[/B]: No, I'm a LT and thats the end of it.

[B]Vinny[/B]: Alright I see, you're a tough negotiator. Ok, how about a chance to play RB and I throw in a contract for the veteran minimum.

[B]Jones[/B]: You're crazy. I'm going to hang up now, you call me back when your medication starts to kick in.

[B]Vinny[/B]: IGottaSuperBowlRing...Hello? Levi? You there? Sorry Danny, I couldn't get that WR/RB you wanted.

By the way how did Levi play today? I heard that JC faced a lot of pressure today. On a team with Ware that can't be a good thing for Levi.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=12thMan;627040]Shhh...CantonLegend may come over and accuse of us bad mouthing Portis.[/quote]

um what? you are implying something that makes absolutely no sense

players dont block any less because of who is behind them....thats ignorant

while blocking may improve over the season due to several reasons it never has anything to do with the players who are carrying the ball

blocking makes the running back, the running back doesnt make the blocking

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=Ruhskins;627050]And gives us an analysis based on games he "saw" on TV. But don't worry, he'll be posting pictures of clowns or other crap.[/quote]

[img]http://jaydeanhcr.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/redskins-logo1.jpg[/img]

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=CantonLegend;629461]um what? you are implying something that makes absolutely no sense

players dont block any less because of who is behind them....thats ignorant

while blocking may improve over the season due to several reasons it never has anything to do with the players who are carrying the ball

[B]blocking makes the running back, the running back doesnt make the blocking[/B][/quote]

ever hear of a guy named barry sanders??

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=CantonLegend;629461]
players dont block any less because of who is behind them....thats ignorant

[/quote]

Uhhhh, I beg to differ. They might put that extra ounce of effort in because 1) they don't like a guy 2) you want to make the new guy have a bit of an easier job or 3) because those guys are getting more carries in practice

If you think that players around other players don't make some guys try harder.. and that nobody takes plays or even games off, you might as well just hang up your cleats as an internet analyst.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=mlmdub130;629739]ever hear of a guy named barry sanders??[/quote]

yea....he sure made his offensive line look better lol

you are dumb.....in every barry sanders highlight its always him being a one man army behind

he rarely ran behind his blockers and always wanted to bounce it to the outside.....he is very much like reggie bush these days except sanders was much more successful at it

it had nothing to do with him making his offensive line look good or block better lmao

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=tryfuhl;629745]Uhhhh, I beg to differ. They might put that extra ounce of effort in because 1) they don't like a guy 2) you want to make the new guy have a bit of an easier job or 3) because those guys are getting more carries in practice

If you think that players around other players don't make some guys try harder.. and that nobody takes plays or even games off, you might as well just hang up your cleats as an internet analyst.[/quote]

lol.....that is one of the most ignorant statements ive ever heard

players take plays off.....of course.....

but they dont play any different because a certain player is on the field as opposed to someone else

thats just dumb......wow......just wow

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=tryfuhl;629745]Uhhhh, I beg to differ. They might put that extra ounce of effort in because 1) they don't like a guy 2) you want to make the new guy have a bit of an easier job or 3) because those guys are getting more carries in practice

If you think that players around other players don't make some guys try harder.. and that nobody takes plays or even games off, you might as well just hang up your cleats as an internet analyst.[/quote]

Agreed. Natural talent only determines a baseline. Factors like motivation, situation, and comradery can help determine weather players play above that baseline or below it. For example pressure can make players play worse then they really are. Desire to play hard for a coach or desire to protect a QB can give players more energy and increase focus, by the same token powerful emotions can also diminish focus and prompt more mistakes then a player who "stays medium." In the end what matters most here is how a particular player deals with emotions.

A book could easily be written on the subject, but in short it isn't inconcievable that lineman can play harder, and consquesntly better, when they respect the guy they're blocking for.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=CantonLegend;629837]yea....he sure made his offensive line look better lol

[B]you are dumb.....in every barry sanders highlight its always him being a one man army behind[/B]

he rarely ran behind his blockers and always wanted to bounce it to the outside.....he is very much like reggie bush these days except sanders was much more successful at it

it had nothing to do with him making his offensive line look good or block better lmao[/quote]

maybe i am dumb, whats this supposed to mean?

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=CantonLegend;629839]lol.....that is one of the most ignorant statements ive ever heard

players take plays off.....of course.....

but they dont play any different because a certain player is on the field as opposed to someone else

thats just dumb......wow......just wow[/quote]

why..... do you..... respond...... like this..... it makes..... no sense

and if you don't think players take plays off then you are an idiot

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=mlmdub130;629891]why..... do you..... respond...... like this..... it makes..... no sense

and if you don't think players take plays off then you are an idiot[/quote]

i said players take plays off......i even said of course

[quote]players take plays off.....of course.....[/quote]

im not saying players dont take plays off.....but offensive linemen dont take entire games off based on who is running the ball just so they can get the player they want to run behind them

thats so ignorant to think that and even more so to come out and say it

what you guys are trying to get at is that the offensive linemen want to block for betts and cartwright but not as much for portis

thats just not true.....

i type like that out of habit.....just read it as a pause in the sentence or thought

for me its easier to type like that than use commas or the appropriate punctuation because more often than not, i dont know which punctuation is appropriate

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=CantonLegend;629837]yea....he sure made his offensive line look better lol

you are dumb.....[B]in every barry sanders highlight its always him being a one man army behind

he rarely ran behind his blockers[/B] and always wanted to bounce it to the outside.....he is very much like reggie bush these days except sanders was much more successful at it

it had nothing to do with him making his offensive line look good or block better lmao[/quote]

Once again you are talking about something that you really don't know anything about because you did not see the relevant game action.

Anyone who actually watched Barry Sanders play live, not just in a highlight reel, knows that he frequently ran behind his blockers. He was one of the greatest backs in NFL history precisely by following and setting up his blocking a lot, although he certainly was very creative on his own, too. To think that someone could put up Barry Sanders' numbers by "rarely running behind blockers" is absolutely ludicrous.

Once again, talking about something that you don't really know has led you into error.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=CantonLegend;629895]
players take plays off.....of course.....

what you guys are trying to get at is that the offensive linemen want to block for betts and cartwright but not as much for portis


[/quote]

seemed sarcastic

i'm not saying that others may, i just think that they were hitting the holes harder and the o line saw that and started blocking harder, and i don't think that that is so far fetched

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=mlmdub130;629902]seemed sarcastic

i'm not saying that others may, [B]i just think that they were hitting the holes harder and the o line saw that and started blocking harder, and i don't think that that is so far fetched[/B][/quote]

Don't forget that the o-line practiced with Betts often and Portis little.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=Lotus;629906]Don't forget that the o-line practiced with Betts often and [B]Portis little[/B].[/quote]

when in minicamps?

btw i totally agree

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=mlmdub130;629902]seemed sarcastic

i'm not saying that others may, i just think that they were hitting the holes harder and the o line saw that and started blocking harder, and i don't think that that is so far fetched[/quote]

I don't think it's that far-fetched. I think you get a little more pumped up when you're getting results.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

I've said this before, but anyone else think that one of the reasons we haven't been drafting the O-line for the last several years has been because of Bugel? I have this weird feeling Bugel told them not to waste high picks on the O-line, because he could "coach them up."

Just wondering.

Re: Let's Talk Levi Jones and Offensive Line
 

[quote=ethat001;629927]I've said this before, but anyone else think that one of the reasons we haven't been drafting the O-line for the last several years has been because of Bugel? I have this weird feeling Bugel told them not to waste high picks on the O-line, because he could "coach them up."

Just wondering.[/quote]

Wow, where would anyone get that sort of idea? I don't believe that for a minute. Joe Bugel couldn't have lasted this long in the NFL if he tells the front office not to draft linemen; that he can coach anybody. The man is one of the best coaches of offensive linemen in history. You don't get to that point by trying to convince front offices that you can turn garbage into Pro Bowlers. After 32 years in the NFL, Buges has had to tell lots of people that they aren't cut out for football.