Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=53Fan;629859]Not that it matters, but ESPN just showed that Dallas had an ineligible receiver downfield on the TD pass and the officials didn't catch it. I don't blame our loss on that, it's just typical, that's all.[/quote]

oh man, I was yelling that at the screen too! I'm honestly not sure what constitutes an ineligible reciever. It seems on a lot of screen passes the linemen are over the line just by a yard or two well before the ball is thrown.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=firstdown;629875]The only reason the D gives up drives when we can not afford them to is because the o can never score enough points so we have a two score lead. So evertime the other team takes the field they can take the lead by scoring thus making it look like the D cannot make a stand.[/quote]

Yeah I have to agree. It's not often over the past few years we've seen the offense close things out and give the D a cushion to work with. The D is always put in a position where they have to protect a narrow lead and they have little margin for error.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;629924]I will say this though...our defense is not the same without AH. He's an absolute difference maker[/quote]

Agreed. I actually think that all thing being equal we would've won w/him. For all the effort of the D, there was still very little pass rush. Even on the last td, Carter almost gets Romo, but the play was made by Romo buying time, the coverage was there.

If you cover for that long, your guys up front have got to get on the qb. On so many plays Romo had time, or was able to step up easily. With AH in there the pressure & the run d would've been different from the get go.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

Defense played great on Sunday, but the Cowboys defense was at least twice as good. Give them credit: the effort from all 11 guys was in no way lacking, and it's probably as good as they've looked this year schematically, but the Cowboys D was just twice as good.

This loss wasn't on the D, but only once in the last two years have they been able to close the deal, and that was the Philly game last season. You can count the Rams game this year as well if you like, even though the Rams never really threatened.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=12thMan;629911]Yeah, the notion that our defense somehow let us down or didn't come through is ridiculous.[/quote]The counter-argument would be that the standard needs to be that they are the best defense on the field every week, given the resources we have put in them. On Sunday, they were not the best defense on the field.

But, again, that's as much about a really good defensive gameplan from Dallas as anything. It was a well, well above average performance, even including the last drive. Of course, some would say that the difference between well above average and elite is the difference between a winner and a loser.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

Good D or bad D, this defense has been unable to stop drives at critical junctures of games.
It is a tough call as to what is the case. YES, the O is.......BAAAAAADDDDD. However (and I heard it on Sunday) I heard Troy A remarking that this is the #1 D against the pass. Well......we are like 25th against the run. Who needs to pass? And we probably have more big plays scored on us than any other team? Way overrated.
AND who have we played that can throw the ball? Not many.
If I have to hang the loss on a unit...it's the O.
THIS D should be better. We should be able to shut down an opponent when necessary, regardless of what point in the game it comes. It makes little difference how well the D plays throughout a game if they cannot close it out?

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

Some how I think the Refs missed the game also.... ;)

[url=http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=309393]Per NFL Live: Illegal Man Downfield on Cowboys TD? - EXTREMESKINS.com[/url]

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=SBXVII;630050]Some how I think the Refs missed the game also.... ;)

[url=http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=309393]Per NFL Live: Illegal Man Downfield on Cowboys TD? - EXTREMESKINS.com[/url][/quote]

yeah, but how many times have the skins benefitted from refs missing something. there were several times our defense got away with blatant pass interference during the game without being flagged. these things even themselves out.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=GTripp0012;630037]Defense played great on Sunday, but the Cowboys defense was at least twice as good. Give them credit: the effort from all 11 guys was in no way lacking, and it's probably as good as they've looked this year schematically, but the Cowboys D was just twice as good.

This loss wasn't on the D, but only once in the last two years have they been able to close the deal, and that was the Philly game last season. You can count the Rams game this year as well if you like, even though the Rams never really threatened.[/quote]
How do your figure that their D was twice as good? We got into scoring postion 4 times and Dallas only twice. Once our D made a play causing a fumble and the 2nd we gave up a TD. If we scored when given the chance by their D we win and missed the chances.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

^Oh I totally agree.

Dallas was despirate. They knew they would not get the ball back. They did whatever it took to put 7 points on the board. Some chances are worth taking. Especially when your losing the whole game.

Our loss was due to our lack of scoring ability. Had we scored on the times we were close to the redzone we might have won 21-7 or 28-7. I base this off of the 4 field goals attempted.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=GTripp0012;630043]The counter-argument would be that the standard needs to be that they are the best defense on the field every week, given the resources we have put in them. On Sunday, they were not the best defense on the field.

But, again, that's as much about a really good defensive gameplan from Dallas as anything. It was a well, well above average performance, even including the last drive. Of course, some would say that the difference between well above average and elite is the difference between a winner and a loser.[/quote]

I kept thinking this all day watching the game, Dallas did a great job defensively. But then in the same sentence they didnt have much to go up against. Our offense is/was horrific and we still should have won that game.One thing I do know, our pass defense was the best on the field all day long. If our offense wasnt in the bottom 3 in the league we would probably be .500. I go back to what the guys on the field say London Fletch and Jerry Gray, you hold a team to 7 points on the road, you should beat that team everytime.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=Chico23231;630075]I kept thinking this all day watching the game, Dallas did a great job defensively. But then in the same sentence they didnt have much to go up against. Our offense is/was horrific and we still should have won that game.One thing I do know, our pass defense was the best on the field all day long. If our offense wasnt in the bottom 3 in the league we would probably be .500. I go back to what the guys on the field say London Fletch and Jerry Gray, you hold a team to 7 points on the road, you should beat that team everytime.[/quote]


[quote=GTripp0012;630037]Defense played great on Sunday, but the Cowboys defense was at least twice as good. Give them credit: the effort from all 11 guys was in no way lacking, and it's probably as good as they've looked this year schematically, but the Cowboys D was just twice as good.

This loss wasn't on the D, but only once in the last two years have they been able to close the deal, and that was the Philly game last season. You can count the Rams game this year as well if you like, even though the Rams never really threatened.[/quote]




Some of you guys really seem to be humping the Dallas D. Maybe Sandtrap can join in.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;629768]In the 4th quarter when the team [B]MUST HAVE [/B]a defensive stand (three-and-out or a turnover to get the ball back) what the team gets is a drive by the opposition resulting in a score.

...What matters is making the defensive stop when the team absolutely, positively has to have one. And the Skins' defense the last couple of years simply has NOT done that.[/quote]
Here is what I took out of SC's post, and it's absolutely true. It doesn't matter if the offense only puts up 6 points or if the defense holds up for 55 someodd minutes. The mentality of "bend don't break" can only hold up for so long. The defense let down when they needed to not bend at all, and that's what ultimately led to the final score.

You can argue that missed FGs and an inept offense lost the Skins the game, and I can agree with that, but I can also agree with the defense stopping the Cowboys all day until it mattered most. It's a combination of these things.

Good football teams find ways to win. Bad football teams find ways to lose.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

^We only had 6 points. Blame the D, don't blame the D but in the end it's very difficult to shut out a team. I guess we were just hoping Dallas which has proven to be able to score more then 21 points in a game would only score 3 and we would win. Not good sound thinking. The defense did it's part all game. Whether that series was at the beginning of the game or the end one has to believe the opponant will score more then 6 points.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=SBXVII;630050]Some how I think the Refs missed the game also.... ;)

[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=309393"]Per NFL Live: Illegal Man Downfield on Cowboys TD? - EXTREMESKINS.com[/URL][/quote]
You're absolutley right, refs missed more than a few at that game. The NFL ruled that the review of whether or not Campbell stepped out bounds before tossing the ball to avoid a sack was NOT reviewable and that review should have never taken place. Anthony Spencer should have been awarded a sack on that play since it was not reviewable.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;630123]You're absolutley right, refs missed more than a few at that game. The NFL ruled that the review of whether or not Campbell stepped out bounds before tossing the ball to avoid a sack was NOT reviewable and that review should have never taken place. Anthony Spencer should have been awarded a sack on that play since it was not reviewable.[/quote]

Why would Spencer be awarded a sack if Campbell ran out of bounds and threw the ball after he stepped out? Running out of bounds to avoid a sack doesn't give the pursuing player a sack. And what he did after he stepped out doesn't matter.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;630123]You're absolutley right, refs missed more than a few at that game. The NFL ruled that the review of whether or not Campbell stepped out bounds before tossing the ball to avoid a sack was NOT reviewable and that review should have never taken place. Anthony Spencer should have been awarded a sack on that play since it was not reviewable.[/quote]

When did the NFL rule that. The broadcast crew said that they had received notification from the NFL referee guy that it was reviewable, and since no snap had taken place the right call was to overturn the ruling on the field, and remove the delay of game.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=Hog1;630049]Good D or bad D, this defense has been unable to stop drives at critical junctures of games.
It is a tough call as to what is the case. YES, the O is.......BAAAAAADDDDD. However (and I heard it on Sunday) I heard Troy A remarking that this is the #1 D against the pass. Well......we are like 25th against the run. Who needs to pass? And we probably have more big plays scored on us than any other team? Way overrated.
AND who have we played that can throw the ball? Not many.
If I have to hang the loss on a unit...it's the O.
THIS D should be better. We should be able to shut down an opponent when necessary, regardless of what point in the game it comes. It makes little difference how well the D plays throughout a game if they cannot close it out?[/quote]

Stats are often misleading. Our offense is horrible which makes the defense stay on the field for more plays. Yes, i would think our rush D would be better, but our pass defense? It's ranked high, but we've got an average secondary. The secondary helps out the run defense game alot and we haven't been very good there. LL and RD/CH...average. Rogers/Smoot/Hall...average.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

i see where the OP is coming from. regardless of what our D did before the last 3 mins of the game, if they get a stop we might have been able to run the clock out or atleast give the ball back with under a min to go.

i also dont understand why we didnt blitz more given green bays success a week prior. andre carter said they had blitz plays ready they just never called them.

trends - our D gives up inoportune scoring drives; greg blache doesnt dial up the blitzes, staying conservative.

i have a hard time putting this on the D thoo.

go skins!!

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=over the mountain;630157]i see where the OP is coming from. regardless of what our D did before the last 3 mins of the game, if they get a stop we might have been able to run the clock out or atleast give the ball back with under a min to go.

[B]i also dont understand why we didnt blitz more given green bays success a week prior. andre carter said they had blitz plays ready they just never called them.

trends - our D gives up inoportune scoring drives; greg blache doesnt dial up the blitzes, staying conservative.[/B]

i have a hard time putting this on the D thoo.

go skins!![/quote]

Good points Mountain.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=firstdown;630069]How do your figure that their D was twice as good? We got into scoring postion 4 times and Dallas only twice. Once our D made a play causing a fumble and the 2nd we gave up a TD. If we scored when given the chance by their D we win and missed the chances.[/quote]Despite both our running and passing games working a lot of the time, they didn't give up any TDs, or really even let us all that close to the end zone. We let them in, and they really didn't have any sort of a passing game to work with all day long.

If our D ever played like that, I'd slurp them too. As it was, it was still a nice effort from the entire unit as a whole. You like to see that from time to time.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

I have a feeling that if we had scored some more points then so would the Cowboys. Garrett called a very conservative game and when got desperate and really needed to score they did. The defense played very well but left plays on the field. Same old same old.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=BDBohnzie;630119]Here is what I took out of SC's post, and it's absolutely true. It doesn't matter if the offense only puts up 6 points or if the defense holds up for 55 someodd minutes. The mentality of "bend don't break" can only hold up for so long. The defense let down when they needed to not bend at all, and that's what ultimately led to the final score.

You can argue that missed FGs and an inept offense lost the Skins the game, and I can agree with that, but I can also agree with the defense stopping the Cowboys all day until it mattered most. It's a combination of these things.

Good football teams find ways to win. Bad football teams find ways to lose.[/quote]
The D found the way to win it was the O that failed. Just for fun I went back to week 5 to see how many teams we would have lost to if we held them to 7 points. Thats around 217 games 31 teams x 7 weeks and we would have lost 8 games and 5 ties which is about a 90% winning record. All the stats show that if your D holds teams to those low score you should win alot of games. Its just a fact that anytime a team scores on us they either take a larger lead or take the lead because our O cannot score points.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=skinsfan69;630169]I have a feeling that if we had scored some more points then so would the Cowboys. [B]Garrett called a very conservative game and when got desperate[/B] and really needed to score they did. The defense played very well but left plays on the field. Same old same old.[/quote]

Jimmy Johnson said the same thing on the radio this morning.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=skinsfan69;630169]I have a feeling that if we had scored some more points then so would the Cowboys. Garrett called a very conservative game and when got desperate and really needed to score they did. The defense played very well but left plays on the field. Same old same old.[/quote]

Oh so now its not that our D didn't play well it was how Garrett called the plays and while your at it just add "same old same old" to your sig it will save you from typing it over and over again.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

I did not "blame the defense for not pitching a shutout". What I said was that the Skins led the game with about 6 minutes to play. The defense did not have to hold them outside field goal range; they had to prevent a TD.

They had done that - - and more - - all day long. But when it mattered most - - because if they failed the staggering offense would have precious little time to overcome the deficit - - the defense came up small.

The point for fanboys to look at is this:
[INDENT]The Skins' defense has done this about 5 or 6 times in the past two years. The coaches and the "Larry Michaels" of the world love to paint this as an elite defense. And for three quarters of a game they are usually well above average. But when it matters - - when it REALLY matters - - they OFTEN come up just small enough to lose the game.[/INDENT]
Now if that isn't what happened on Sunday, I must have seen the wrong game. I'm not talking about what should have happened if the offense had scored more or what might have been if the moon were actually made of green cheese. I'm talking about what actually happened in the final six minutes of the Skins/Cowboys game on Sunday 11/22/2009.

As Dandy Don Merideth used to say on MNF back in the 70s:
[INDENT]"Were ifs and buts candy and nuts,
Oh, what a Christmas there'd be..."[/INDENT]

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;630222]
[B]The point for fanboys to look at is this:[/B][INDENT][/quote]

lol i hate when people do this. makes you look like a smug know-it-all talking down to the nitwit peons.
[/INDENT]

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=over the mountain;630228]lol i hate when people do this. makes you look like a smug know-it-all talking down to the nitwit peons.
[/INDENT][/quote]

He's saying the D is at fault. How credible can he be in the first place?

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;630222]I did not "blame the defense for not pitching a shutout". What I said was that the Skins led the game with about 6 minutes to play. The defense did not have to hold them outside field goal range; they had to prevent a TD.

They had done that - - and more - - all day long. But when it mattered most - - because if they failed the staggering offense would have precious little time to overcome the deficit - - the defense came up small.

The point for fanboys to look at is this:[INDENT]The Skins' defense has done this about 5 or 6 times in the past two years. The coaches and the "Larry Michaels" of the world love to paint this as an elite defense. And for three quarters of a game they are usually well above average. But when it matters - - when it REALLY matters - - they OFTEN come up just small enough to lose the game.
[/INDENT]Now if that isn't what happened on Sunday, I must have seen the wrong game. I'm not talking about what should have happened if the offense had scored more or what might have been if the moon were actually made of green cheese. I'm talking about what actually happened in the final six minutes of the Skins/Cowboys game on Sunday 11/22/2009.

As Dandy Don Merideth used to say on MNF back in the 70s:[INDENT]"Were ifs and buts candy and nuts,
Oh, what a Christmas there'd be..."
[/INDENT][/quote]
If they let them score in the 3rd they still would have won. Anytime a team scores on us it big because our O does not but up any points and that what your missing. Also a game is 60min. not six. We just have to agree to disagree.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=firstdown;630086]Some of you guys really seem to be humping the Dallas D. Maybe Sandtrap can join in.[/quote]

I just thought the strong suit of Dallas was there offense, but the defense was very surprisingly good during the game. I think Hamlin being out was a plus for them, he overated and sux. I also was saying in the previous post that our offense is so f*ing horrible, it can make anybody look steller.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

Nobody can deny that the D has given up it's share of late leads over the last couple years, but again, the offense hasn't exactly pulled it's weight over that time and given the D much margin for error.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

if the offense can't score one f-ing touchdown you can't blame the d, yeah we aren't the best, but we are pretty damn good, both sides of the ball have to do their part, the d can't play both sides of the ball, yeah it woulda been nice if they got those other picks, and d hall ran into the endzone instead of getting tackled by homo, but they still held dallas to one td, if out o coulda scored one touchdown game over

bottom line no way it's the d's fault

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

I think if the Defense allowed teams to score on every drive whether it was a TD or FG then yes the Defense would not be doing it's job.

I'll agree the Defense has allowed teams to score late in the 4th quarter. You either have a Defense that paces itself and plays conservitively and throws in a few rushes now and then so it doesn't tire out or you have an attacking Defense that by the 4th quarter will tire out, especially if it's on the field more then the Offense.

Basically we have the latter and we need an Offense that can put up some points. If the Offense can put up points and eat the clock the Defense will not tire out so quickly and the 4th quarter won't be an issue. Unfortunatly we have no offense to compliment the attacking Defense.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=Mattyk72;630238]Nobody can deny that the D has given up it's share of late leads over the last couple years, but again, the offense hasn't exactly pulled it's weight over that time and given the D much margin for error.[/quote]^^^Essentially explains being 3-7.

Things were different at 6-2, and even at 8-8.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=53Fan;629859]Not that it matters, but ESPN just showed that Dallas had an ineligible receiver downfield on the TD pass and the officials didn't catch it. I don't blame our loss on that, it's just typical, that's all.[/quote]
Yeah I saw that too man.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;629867]I completely agree with the original poster...I am so surprised to see that the Redskins have such a good defense because they always give up big plays when we can least afford it.[/quote]
Well just like we've mentioned Campbell seems to look better in the 2 min.. that's when teams go bend but don't break, typically reduce blitzes, and don't have the same time to get prepared for the formation and play

that's not just true for the redskins, it's true for about ANY team

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;629900]I think the OP's point, and it is accurate, is that our defense has a habit of giving up points at the end of a close game, think Rams last year, 49'ers last year. If our offense would blow out other teams then it would not be an issue, and would be considered garbage time (we know about those right?) But I think it is a consistent trend of this defense to give up points not only on the last, but also the first drives of the game. Think back to the first drive yesterday. Dallas went down the field with EASE. It was only a fluke Barber fumble that stopped that drive at the 20. Then the D locks down, like it can, but come the last drive of the 4th quarter, bang, zip powee, the Cowboys move it with ease. I don't get it. I think our D should be able to shutout offenses that are struggling (like the cowboys yesterday) but somehow, as good as they are, they find a way to diminish their effort.[/quote]

Even if you give them a TD on that drive that Barber fumbled, it's not too much to ask for 14 points from your offense.

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=ethat001;629922]Anyone that's upset with our offense is STUPID.

Name one other NFL team that can be without:
1) Pro Bowl LT
2) Pro Bowl RB
3) Pro Bowl TE
4) Starting RG
5) Back-up RG
6) Back-up RB

I know every team has injuries, but what other team has anywhere close to decimation of our offense? It wasn't very good to begin with, and I don't expect it to be very good now.

I view the rest of the season as a good try-out for the back-ups, and a good chance for the WR's to get more practice running routes. Maybe FDavis practicing blocking. And Jason Campbell - well, trying not to get hurt. We have no chance on making the playoffs, may as well get a good draft pick.[/quote]

Yeah, our offense was ON FIRE before we lost those guys

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=over the mountain;630157]i see where the OP is coming from. regardless of what our D did before the last 3 mins of the game, if they get a stop we might have been able to run the clock out or atleast give the ball back with under a min to go.

i also dont understand why we didnt blitz more given green bays success a week prior. andre carter said they had blitz plays ready they just never called them.

trends - our D gives up inoportune scoring drives; greg blache doesnt dial up the blitzes, staying conservative.

i have a hard time putting this on the D thoo.

go skins!![/quote]

yep.. orakpo said they had watched the tape and were going to dialup some exotic blitzes, corner blitzes, etc

Re: I must have missed yesterday's game...
 

[quote=tryfuhl;630585]Yeah, our offense was ON FIRE before we lost those guys[/quote]

it was? :-)