Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=AYJAX;633035]I agree with Pike being a great 2nd or 3rd round pick, but if we do get a QB we need to give them time to learn the system and not just throw him in there. The reason i like Pike is that he is playing great with team that is not a power house. teams like Texas, USC, Florida, Oklahoma and Ohio st. always have the a hell of a lot of talent, so its hard to tell if its the QB or just the talent around him. not to say Gillard and Wood are not great recievers for Pike, but QB's at non-cream-of-the-crop schools have to do better with a little less supporting cast in there college years. All this said we still need [B]Campbell back next tio have some sort of consistancy in the broken system we have now[/B].

and Charles Brown should be our first pick.[/quote]

in no way shape or form am i say throw pike in there, the kid is fragile he needs a solid oline, but he has a great feild of vision, and he can throw on the move. and is very accurate down feild. and he does have a supporting cast they threw collaras in there and he did great as well.

that said i really would love to pick him up in the late second to thrid round assuming we make some moves

as far as campbell i hope he comes back too, kind of doubt it though, but i am done with wco we need a new system it does not fit our team personel at all

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=mlmdub130;633084]in no way shape or form am i say throw pike in there, the kid is fragile he needs a solid oline, but he has a great feild of vision, and he can throw on the move. and is very accurate down feild. and he does have a supporting cast they threw collaras in there and he did great as well.

that said i really would love to pick him up in the late second to thrid round assuming we make some moves

as far as campbell i hope he comes back too, kind of doubt it though, but i am done with wco we need a new system it does not fit our team personel at all[/quote]

i like pike, but im also wary of spread qbs coming to the nfl. cincinatti runs a spread offense, so we will see how long it takes him to make proper reads in a pro-style offense. thats one reason i really like clausen. he can make all the throws, and comes from a pro-style offense, his learning curve will be less than any of the others.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

Im not going by what kind of offense a QB played in at college, you can either make the throws or not,system doesnt matter IMO.
Alex Smith was a "spread" QB and id have to say he looks better than Quinn from that ND "pro" style offense.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

i would rather have a learning curve of a year or so, regardless of who we pick up at qb we don't need them to get in there right away and get ramsey-ed, we need to get our online solid before we insert any new qb

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

If we want a QB in the first round, I say Clausen

2nd round-Zac Robinson

3rd or beyond-[url=http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/high_school/2009/08/24/2009-08-24_unheralded_fordham_qb_john_skelton.html]John Skelton[/url] or [url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/dan_shaughnessy/11/30/randolph/index.html?cnn=yes]Dominic Randolph[/url]

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;633043]No qb in the first round...don't you guys watch the games, JC isn't winning any games but the O-line is actively losing games. You have to fix the weakest link first and that is the o-line, pick up some tackles and shore up the guards.[/quote]

I agree with you to an extent. But Aaron Rogers is the most sacked QB in the NFL and he's still putting up stellar numbers and winning games. Campbell can't perform under pressure, he needs to go.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=Kalisto2010;633134]I agree with you to an extent. But Aaron Rogers is the most sacked QB in the NFL and he's still putting up stellar numbers and winning games. Campbell can't perform under pressure, he needs to go.[/quote]

like others have said rogers gets sacked so much because he holds on to the ball wayyyyyyy to long not because his line is falling apart. i'd say more than 50% of the times he is sacked it is his own fault

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;633105]Im not going by what kind of offense a QB played in at college, you can either make the throws or not,s[B]ystem doesnt matter IMO.[/B]
Alex Smith was a "spread" QB and id have to say he looks better than Quinn from that ND "pro" style offense.[/quote]

System does matter. Spread QB's are in shotgun and rarely under center, but experience dropping back from being under center is necessary in the NFL. Also, spread qb's typically are not required to read defenses at the level that drop-back qb's are.

I think Clausen has more pro-style experience and thus would be more likely to make the transition to the NFL smoothly.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=Lotus;633149]System does matter. Spread QB's are in shotgun and rarely under center, but experience dropping back from being under center is necessary in the NFL. Also, spread qb's typically are not required to read defenses at the level that drop-back qb's are.

I think Clausen has more pro-style experience and thus would be more likely to make the transition to the NFL smoothly.[/quote]

exactly my point. the learning curve is going to be less for a pro-style guy, and if people really want to win sooner rather than later, a pro-style guy is the way to go all the way imo.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=SmootSmack;633113]If we want a QB in the first round, I say Clausen

2nd round-Zac Robinson

3rd or beyond-[url=http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/high_school/2009/08/24/2009-08-24_unheralded_fordham_qb_john_skelton.html]John Skelton[/url] or [url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/dan_shaughnessy/11/30/randolph/index.html?cnn=yes]Dominic Randolph[/url][/quote]

When do you think clausen will go in the first round? Do you think he will go before mccoy and bradford?

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=cdskins26;633285]When do you think clausen will go in the first round? Do you think he will go before mccoy and bradford?[/quote]

Probably before McCoy and after Bradford

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

100% before mccoy and him and bradford is a toss up right no but probably him if i had to chose right now

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

ss

u think bradofrd goes first, or are you just saying that because you beleive in santa clausen and want him here?

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=mlmdub130;633288]ss

u think bradofrd goes first, or are you just saying that because you beleive in santa clausen and want him here?[/quote]

Well just to clarify I mean first of the three QBs mentioned, not first overall.

And I think it because I just hear that scouts and NFL execs are still a bit higher on him than on Clausen. But it's very, very close. Ask me in a week and my response might have changed three times by then.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

i think bradford is rated higher, but we will see after the combine and such. id still go with clausen over bradford.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=SmootSmack;633290]Well just to clarify I mean first of the three QBs mentioned, not first overall.

And I think it because I just hear that scouts and NFL execs are still a bit higher on him than on Clausen. But it's very, very close. Ask me in a week and my response might have changed three times by then.[/quote]At the spot we will be picking though (6, 7, 8, or 9 depending on whether we win one or two games to finish out), what would it mean if Clausen is still around? It would mean that two or three teams who need a quarterback thought Clausen was not the player on the board who would help them the most. To me, that would be more than just the Raiders making another player mis-evaluation, it would mean that the league wide pre-draft evaluation sees a player who will always be tied to the players around him, which, if anything, is the primary legitimate criticism of Jason Campbell.

But if Bradford is still around, it might mean that teams were just simply not willing to invest top 5 money into a player coming off a shoulder injury. At #8 or #9, Bradford could be a first-overall type talent, with a higher injury risk level, who could justify our first round pick because we wouldn't have to throw more than $5 or $6 million a year in a rookie deal instead of $12 or $13 in the top three picks.

Right now, I would take Bradford in the first round, if he did fall to us, because I see that as the kind of inspired move that could start a franchise revival, and mostly because he may be the kind of player that only teams picking in the top three get a shot at.

Clausen may very well be that kind of player as well, but if he is, he will be the first overall guy taken which makes that point moot. I think they're very close right now as well. But both played behind very good OLs in college, and the transition to the Redskins would not be smooth.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

And I'm a big Jahvid Best fan as a player, but I would have to recommend we avoid any player who's head injury history goes deeper than, "single occurrence, mild." With the way the league is reacting to head injuries, you just can't spend $1 million or more in a signing bonus on a player who has missed games because of a serious head injury, no matter how good said player is.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

I am a Notre Dame fan and have been for over 35 years. Same with the Skins.

I have seen every single down of Jummy Clausen's college career. He can make all the throws. He has gotten pounded over his 4 years there but he gets back up and he plays. He's a tough ki. He got through early career struggles and has become the great QB he was forecast to be. He already has a fairly intimate knowledge of the pro offense and it's basic terminology. I believe very strongly that he will be a franchise QB.

As much as I like Clausen....


[B][SIZE="4"]We need offensive line men!![/SIZE][/B]. Joe Montana couldn't win with this offensive line.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=Lotus;633149]System does matter. Spread QB's are in shotgun and rarely under center, but experience dropping back from being under center is necessary in the NFL. Also, spread qb's typically are not required to read defenses at the level that drop-back qb's are.

I think Clausen has more pro-style experience and thus would be more likely to make the transition to the NFL smoothly.[/quote]

I feel its on the player, not the system he ran in college. look at USC and ND lately, both use a "pro" style offense and neither has had a QB come out lately that has been anywhere near impressive. Busts can come from any scheme, you have your Leafs and you have your Klinglers, its all a crapshoot.
Imnot saying Clausen is a bad prospect, i just wouldnt put him ahead of the other QB's simply because of the scheme he played in at ND.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;633328]I feel its on the player, not the system he ran in college. look at USC and ND lately, both use a "pro" style offense and neither has had a QB come out lately that has been anywhere near impressive. [B]Busts can come from any scheme[/B], you have your Leafs and you have your Klinglers, its all a crapshoot.
Imnot saying Clausen is a bad prospect, i just wouldnt put him ahead of the other QB's simply because of the scheme he played in at ND.[/quote]

You are absolutely correct that busts can come from any scheme. I was hardly arguing that Clausen was a lock.

But, since he has been practicing pro style techniques for 4 years, it stands to reason that he might fit in more quickly with the pros.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

Campbell stays I think and fulfills the role of teacher the next two seasons possibly ala Brunell. Bradfor should fall to the lower rounds if the draft guys are smart. That kid is done after one massive hit. IF we go defenseive line we should look at those DEs from Ohio State. THose guys are monsters. Not sure if they are both seniors though so maybe we can hold off a year. We really do need to draft just about all O linemen this year.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=AYJAX;633035]I agree with Pike being a great 2nd or 3rd round pick, but if we do get a QB we need to give them time to learn the system and not just throw him in there. The reason i like Pike is that he is playing great with team that is not a power house. teams like Texas, USC, Florida, Oklahoma and Ohio st. always have the a hell of a lot of talent, so its hard to tell if its the QB or just the talent around him. not to say Gillard and Wood are not great recievers for Pike, but QB's at non-cream-of-the-crop schools have to do better with a little less supporting cast in there college years. All this said we still need Campbell back next tio have some sort of consistancy in the broken system we have now.

and Charles Brown should be our first pick.[/quote]


Overhyped college QBs rarely liveup to the hype in the NFL after Peyton came into the league. Rodgers really wasn't overhyped, Rivers wasn't either. Eli was indeed overhyped and is living up to the set trend thus far. I know he got a ring already, but he isn't going to get another one anytime soon. JC is a decent QB, just doesn't have what it takes to take control of the team or situation to pull out a close game.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=Lotus;633330]You are absolutely correct that busts can come from any scheme. I was hardly arguing that Clausen was a lock.

But, since he has been practicing pro style techniques for 4 years, it stands to reason in that he might fit in more quickly with the pros.[/quote]Notre Dame did a lot of west coast stuff when Clausen first got there, but he played this season nearly exclusively in the shotgun, with three or four wide receivers on the field and no fullback.

I think Stoops and Weis both play that "adjusted" pro-style offense. The fundamentals of what they both preach are rooted in the professional style of football, with five and seven step drops and such, but when you're trying to win college football games, I think what they believe in takes a back seat to what wins college football games, which is a lot of spread concepts and shotgun work.

Of course, with the NFL trending in this direction naturally, I think it's going to open a lot of opportunities for the players who play primarily out of the shotgun. At least, I can only hope.

I think scouts would rather avoid the spread because their evaluations are made a whole lot more difficult by it, but if more than half the draft-eligible quarterbacks play in that system, someone will eventually man up and develop a translation system.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

kiper has clausen #1 on his big board now according to espn.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

I look at Clausen and I see a very good pro prospect. Still, there is one thing about him that I can't get out of my mind: he didn't [U]win[/U] enough games at ND. To me, a franchise QB needs to win games for his team. Sometimes he even needs to drive his team to implausible wins. Clausen is a great passer but I question his ability to lead an NFL team.

Admittedly, I'm on the fence about Clausen. Am I wrong to discount his obvious skills because his team hasn't won more games with him at QB?

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

Hard to fault Clausen for the performance of the D at Notre Dame, which ultimately has been their Achilles' heel.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=Mattyk72;633423]Hard to fault Clausen for the performance of the D at Notre Dame, which ultimately has been their Achilles' heel.[/quote]

I've seen their offense fail to mount late drives to win, as well.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;633421]I look at Clausen and I see a very good pro prospect. Still, there is one thing about him that I can't get out of my mind: he didn't [U]win[/U] enough games at ND. To me, a franchise QB needs to win games for his team. Sometimes he even needs to drive his team to implausible wins. Clausen is a great passer but I question his ability to lead an NFL team.

[B]Admittedly, I'm on the fence about Clausen. Am I wrong to discount his obvious skills because his team hasn't won more games with him at QB[/B]?[/quote]

campbell went undefeated in 04 with auburn

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=mlmdub130;633426]campbell went undefeated in 04 with auburn[/quote]

Good point!

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

Okung in the 1st Round
McCoy in the 2nd Round

I'm reall bullish on Colt McCoy! (I was real bullish on Rey Maualuga last year...he dropped to the 2nd round...analysts credit his play/demeanor for leading the Bengals defensive success). McCoy is a leader, hard worker, accurate passer, and can get on his wheels when in trouble. Just what we need.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=Son Of Man;633843]Okung in the 1st Round
McCoy in the 2nd Round

I'm reall bullish on Colt McCoy! (I was real bullish on Rey Maualuga last year...he dropped to the 2nd round...analysts credit his play/demeanor for leading the Bengals defensive success). McCoy is a leader, hard worker, accurate passer, and can get on his wheels when in trouble. Just what we need.[/quote]

Colt McCoy is a straight up bust in the NFL. I will bet you money. It's an easy call.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

TONY PIKE the most accurate paser coming out of college this year mark my words

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=Big C;632878]you live in big 12 country, you know how dominant suh is. imagine he and haynesworth paired up in the middle. thats would just be incredible.[/quote]

I watched Texas and Nebraska play tonight and Suh...is INCREDIBLE! I wished I hadn't of watched because we need o-line, but now visions fill my head of him and AH playing side by side. With those 2 in the middle and Orakpo and Jarmon on the ends...OMG. That dude is DOMINANT!

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=53Fan;634226]I watched Texas and Nebraska play tonight and Suh...is INCREDIBLE! I wished I hadn't of watched because we need o-line, but now visions fill my head of him and AH playing side by side. With those 2 in the middle and Orakpo and Jarmon on the ends...OMG. That dude is DOMINANT![/quote]

Yes! my point exactly. we need o-line, very true, but suh is absolutely inhuman. he and big al in the middle would be absolutely impenetrable. hes still the player i want in the first round.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=mlmdub130;634220]TONY PIKE the most accurate paser coming out of college this year mark my words[/quote]

he was pretty terrible most of the day today. turned it around late but he was 11/30 at one point. hes a good player, im just not sold on a lot of spread qbs until they prove its not just the system. he doesnt seem to have a lot of zip on the ball

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=53Fan;634226]I watched Texas and Nebraska play tonight and Suh...is INCREDIBLE! I wished I hadn't of watched because we need o-line, but now visions fill my head of him and AH playing side by side. With those 2 in the middle and Orakpo and Jarmon on the ends...OMG. That dude is DOMINANT![/quote]

Yeah, Suh was a beast tonight. I can't see anyone not taking him with the number one pick. I thought Clausen was a lock, but after tonight I'm switching to Suh.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=Kalisto2010;634230]Yeah, Suh was a beast tonight. I can't see anyone not taking him with the number one pick. I thought Clausen was a lock, but after tonight I'm switching to Suh.[/quote]

Well it's rare that a DT is taken with the #1 pick but this guy is unbelievable. He's one of the best I've seen...ever.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

suh probably wont be number one overall, but imo hes the best player going into the draft. he is simply unblockable. if he is there when we pick, we HAVE to take him.

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=Big C;634228]he was pretty terrible most of the day today. turned it around late but he was 11/30 at one point. hes a good player, im just not sold on a lot of spread qbs until they prove its not just the system. he doesnt seem to have a lot of zip on the ball[/quote]

one of my buddies text me in the middle of the second quarter and asked me if i still wanted pike. he was 11/30 at one point, but he ended the game 22/44 with 3 tds and 3 int's and a WIN not to mention it was raining/sleeting/snowing through out the game, he has size vision and arm strength he [U]will[/U] be a winner in the nfl

Re: Bradford still leads, Locker Clausen gain
 

[quote=Big C;634241]suh probably wont be number one overall, but imo hes the best player going into the draft. he is simply unblockable. if he is there when we pick, we HAVE to take him.[/quote]

if he preforms in the combines we may really have to cinsider it. considering he should be top 3/5 talent and we will probably be around 7-8 if he falls into our lap like orakpo we would have to take him, like the situation was with orakpo at the time