Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

This is heartbreaking for me. Cooley is my favorite player on the Skins, my heart is with Cooley, but my head is with Fred Davis.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=steveo395;644884]Davis is more athletic, but Cooley has better hands and can break more tackles. It would be nice to keep both, but if we can get enough for Cooley in a trade, I say do it. It would have to be at least a second round pick, probably more, for me to be happy with it.[/quote]

[quote]This is heartbreaking for me. Cooley is my favorite player on the Skins, my heart is with Cooley, but my head is with Fred Davis.
[/quote]

Both of these people nailed it to me. Also 2 tight end sets does not seem to work on any other team and so TE's are not THAT important. Unless we figure something out, which I doubt we will, I wouldn't mind letting Cooley go but only for AT LEAST a 2nd round pick. Then just draft some fucking O-LINE!!!

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=bigm29;645031]Both of these people nailed it to me. [B]Also 2 tight end sets does not seem to work on any other team[/B] and so TE's are not THAT important. Unless we figure something out, which I doubt we will, I wouldn't mind letting Cooley go but only for AT LEAST a 2nd round pick. Then just draft some fucking O-LINE!!![/quote]

If you give a lot of balls to two TE's, there are not many balls left for the wideouts, which reduces the overall dynamism of the offense regardless of who the TE's are.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

Thing is it's not a popular thing to talk about 'round these parts. You know, lettin Cooley go and all. But I would have to think, at the very least, it's on the table. Fred Davis is going to be a stud; Stevie Wonder can see that. I think they roll with both guys next year and cut one of them loose the following year for sure. Tight ends just don't make or break your team.

Truth is unless your name is Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Drew Brees, no one is above being traded in the NFL.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

Just out of curiosity how many people would trade Cooley for a 2nd (hopefully a 1st) round pick this offseason?

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

He's more athletic, he has just as good of hands if not better, and he'll break more tackles. However, Cooley is still the consummate Redskin and he's shown some good moves as well. Cooley right now has a very large contract but with a new coach that might not matter nearly as much. 2TE sets should be very interesting and what's to say we shouldn't put one in the slot every now and then? Or even come out of the backfield? Both of those guys can probably do either and to throw that mix up to the D that we're facing could be to an advantage; I don't see it happening but I could see it working.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=mlmdub130;644894]from what 6 f-ing games get real, zorn was 6-2 at the begining of last year too you remember that? davis has better pontential? i'm not saying he doesn't have upside but i'm not gonna call him the tony g after 6 games take off your homer glasses and be realistic[/quote]

So you think that Davis' breakout has been a fluke across 6 games? I'd like to call it given a chance. Same with Thomas showing up.. and I still think that Kelly can do the 3 receptions for 30-80yds a game.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=wolfeskins;644910]the question is, has davis stepped up or has campbell/sherm lewis finally dicided to start throwing the ball to the te more. why was marko mitchell the best thing since sliced pie during the pre-season, but hasn't done didlydo when given the chance to play during the regular season? answer.....because they actually threw the ball to him in pre-season. i think it's great that davis is showing us that he can be rilied upon to be a starting te but people come on, lets not get crazy. does anyone really think davis is a better te than a healthy chris cooley(not potentialy better) but better right know.[/quote]

lol yeah.. they def brought the TE into the game, TE was NEVER involved until Davis came in, most certainly didn't have most catches or anything...

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=Mattyk;645012]So if FD started 16 games he would put up... Cooley numbers? ;)

It's funny how quickly we cast guys aside.[/quote]

I think that he could and that's not discounting Cooley.. just what we have to work with and the talents that Davis possesses. I'm impressed when Cooley breaks a tackle; I was there when he abused Carolina for his longest TD/reception ever. I also watched when FD went along the sideline and broke about 4 tackles too. Cooley though is my favorite player, I don't want to see him in another uniform, but if you decide that you can only operate with one very operational TE you obviously do have a choice on your hands, it's not cut and dry unless you're not watching imo

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=bigm29;645035]Just out of curiosity how many people would trade Cooley for a 2nd (hopefully a 1st) round pick this offseason?[/quote]

1st I say you do it... 2nd you determine where the pick comes from

no matter what happens, no matter how much Davis shines, I'd be sad about Cooley not being on our team.. but it comes down to a lot more than favoritism in this league and the teams that are in it year and and year out show that

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=44Deezel;644983]Because they are both expensive and the team has big holes elsewhere. Davis started 14 games? Cooley had 6TDs in a full season. Davis has 6 TDs, has only started a handful of games and still has 2 to go. I don't know why this is even a legit discussion. TEs are not THAT important, let alone 2 of them. Who was the Pats TE when they won 3?[/quote]

i went back and edited it, but the first two stats were games played and games started.

and i'm pretty sure te's are pretty important, especially in a wco, i beleive thats why this is being discussed

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=tryfuhl;645039]So you think that Davis' breakout has been a fluke across 6 games? I'd like to call it given a chance. Same with Thomas showing up.. and I still think that Kelly can do the 3 receptions for 30-80yds a game.[/quote]

i'm not saying it's a fluke but alot of people here are claiming he is the next tony gonzalez, and he might be but i wouldn't say that after a few games in a new system, shit last year it looked like every player on offense was a probowler at the begining of the season

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=mlmdub130;645086]i'm not saying it's a fluke but alot of people here are claiming he is the next tony gonzalez, and he might be but i wouldn't say that after a few games in a new system, shit last year it looked like every player on offense was a probowler at the begining of the season[/quote]

He has the physical tools to be like Tony Gonzalez. Of course he is not polished or in an offense good enough to reach that level yet. Gonzalez may be the best pass catching tight end ever.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

Im a 47 and 86 fan...both are great TEs.... I do think we should trade Cooley for a pick or two, it just makes sense. No team is going to roll with two TE full time, thats just not realistic.

This conversation is another bi product of dumb ass Vinnie's stupidity. The skins didn't NEED Fred Davis!!!! Cooley is a top 10 TE, how many of us would love for the Davis pick to have been a RT?

That being said.....86 > 47 in my opinion.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

It surprises me that all of a sudden many think we should just trade CC. A guy that's proven, works hard, has a great attitude and has many attributes of a "true redskin." Fred Davis has overly impressed me this year and he's got a big time future too. I'm not ready to give up on CC and i too would be excited w/ both of them on the field.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=Mattyk;645012]So if FD started 16 games he would put up... Cooley numbers? ;)

It's funny how quickly we cast guys aside.[/quote]

Last year Cooley had 1 td, before his injury he wasn't exactly setting the nfl on fire.

I love Cooley but i think part of this team's problems is we have a few fan favorites and it gets in the way of how we run our team. I like Cooley, and only mention the trade if we can get great value.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=tryfuhl;645038]He's more athletic, he has just as good of hands if not better, and he'll break more tackles. However, Cooley is still the consummate Redskin and he's shown some good moves as well. Cooley right now has a very large contract but with a new coach that might not matter nearly as much. 2TE sets should be very interesting and what's to say we shouldn't put one in the slot every now and then? Or even come out of the backfield? Both of those guys can probably do either and to throw that mix up to the D that we're facing could be to an advantage; I don't see it happening but I could see it working.[/quote]


Doesn't Fred line up in the slot now?

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=Zerohero;645118]Last year Cooley had 1 td, before his injury he wasn't exactly setting the nfl on fire.

I love Cooley but i think part of this team's problems is we have a few fan favorites and it gets in the way of how we run our team. I like Cooley, and only mention the trade if we can get great value.[/quote]

His 1 TD last year was a bit of a fluke, prior to last year he was averaging nearly 7 per year.

And prior to his injury this year he had 29 catches in 6 starts. That's nearly 5 per game, or a pretty healthy 80 catch season pace.

Hey I'm all for looking into trade options too, I just think it's funny how all of a sudden Davis is everyone's hero and Cooley is on the back burner when really, there is no drastic difference in their level of production.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=Mattyk;645012]So if FD started 16 games he would put up... Cooley numbers? ;)

It's funny how quickly we cast guys aside.[/quote]

Has nothing to do with casting guys aside....its just good business.... if you can get value for 47 you take the picks. Better to have 1 great TE and one or two other potential starters, than 2 great TEs. Take the emotion of losing a fan favorite out of it and its a no brainer.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=Mattyk;645121]His 1 TD last year was a bit of a fluke, prior to last year he was averaging nearly 7 per year.

And prior to his injury this year he had 29 catches in 6 starts. That's nearly 5 per game, or a pretty healthy 80 catch season pace.

Hey I'm all for looking into trade options too, I just think it's funny how all of a sudden Davis is everyone's hero and Cooley is on the back burner when really, there is no drastic difference in their level of production.[/quote]

one would think cooley would garner us more compensation in a trade. his contract is huge; whereas davis is cheap. Cooley has peaked, whereas Davis has tons more upside.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

I would say Cooley is peaking... peaked makes it sound as if he's on the downside to me.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=Mattyk;645131]I would say Cooley is peaking... peaked makes it sound as if he's on the downside to me.[/quote]

maybe peaking is a better tense of the verb. Either way, Cooley is as good as he's ever going to be right now. He can probably maintain it for another 5 years or so, but then he'll start to decline. Davis has nothing but upside and because of his younger age, he could be more productive for us for a longer period of time.

If there is a salary cap, I can see holding on to Davis and Cooley together for one more year and then trading Davis next offseason (negligible cap hit). However, there's absolutely no reason i can see to keep both of them for much longer than that. If there is no cap, Cooley makes the most sense to move now.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=44Deezel;644983]Because they are both expensive and the team has big holes elsewhere. Davis started 14 games? Cooley had 6TDs in a full season. Davis has 6 TDs, has only started a handful of games and still has 2 to go. I don't know why this is even a legit discussion. TEs are not THAT important, let alone 2 of them. Who was the Pats TE when they won 3?[/quote]

Comparing Cooley's numbers to Davis this year doesn't really make any sense. Cooley was pacing for yet another pro-bowl year before he got hurt despite a pathetic offense and no Sherm Lewis calling plays. Davis has stepped in and been great, but his time as a starter began right when our offense decided to move the ball. No reason to think Cooley's numbers wouldn't be stellar if he was playing right now.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=Mattyk;645121]His 1 TD last year was a bit of a fluke, prior to last year he was averaging nearly 7 per year.

And prior to his injury this year he had 29 catches in 6 starts. That's nearly 5 per game, or a pretty healthy 80 catch season pace.

Hey I'm all for looking into trade options too, I just think it's funny how all of a sudden Davis is everyone's hero and Cooley is on the back burner when really, there is no drastic difference in their level of production.[/quote]

thank you

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;644939]Yeah and he's 6'5 and weighs 255lbs. Did you see him play at USC?? He's a baller. All this guy needs is to keep learning how to be a pro and the sky is the limit for this kid. I think we've got a keeper with Davis. Sorry Cooley but you're trade bait cause this guy a physical presense in the red zone.[/quote]
I was talking About Mitchell! I'm ready to buy a FD Jersey but don't want to jinx him...

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;645126]one would think cooley would garner us more compensation in a trade. his contract is huge; whereas davis is cheap. Cooley has peaked, whereas Davis has tons more upside.[/quote]

It's the other way around, Teams want to trade for young cheap guys with lots of potential.

Davis is better trade bait IMO.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=jamf;645175]It's the other way around, Teams want to trade for young cheap guys with lots of potential.

Davis is better trade bait IMO.[/quote]

I disagree. Unless you get a first round pick for Davis, which you won't, there's nothing but downside to trading him. He's one year removed from being a rookie, isn't anywhere close to hitting his potential, and yet he's already paying dividends worthy of a second round pick.

His true value will only be realized if he stays with the burgundy and gold, keeps punching the clock and keep producing.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

I guess what I'm saying is, yes Davis is trade bait but more than likely the Redskins would get the short end of the stick by doing so.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

What if "C-A-T" really spelled Dog?

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=jamf;645175]It's the other way around, Teams want to trade for young cheap guys with lots of potential.

Davis is better trade bait IMO.[/quote]

Well i said if compensation were equal... A team rebuilding like us, might be more interested in Davis. A team that felt it was one TE away from a superbowl, or one wanting a TE who could also play HB would probably be more interested in Cooley.

That said, potential compensation will probably not be equal and I agree teams would be more inclined to trade for Davis.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=12thMan;645188]I disagree. Unless you get a first round pick for Davis, which you won't, there's nothing but downside to trading him. He's one year removed from being a rookie, isn't anywhere close to hitting his potential, and yet he's already paying dividends worthy of a second round pick.

His true value will only be realized if he stays with the burgundy and gold, keeps punching the clock and keep producing.[/quote]

Exactly. If anything, we should hold on to Davis (he's cheap) next year and trade him after the 2010 season. As long as Cooley's here,we certainly won't get him to resign here when his rookie contract expires after the 2011 season. We'd be better of getting a 2nd round pick for him in 2012 than letting him walk and getting a later-round compensatory pick for him in 2013.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

Davis should be the starting TE next year. Cooley should stay in the starting lineup, replacing the FB in the offense. He can play in the backfield, or on the line, or in the slot and be used to create mismatches all over the field.

I believe you Washingtonian's call it an "H-Back".

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=JLee9718;644840]Oh, how quickly we forget the best that we have. Cooley is a Redskin, and I can't say let's replace him just because he got hurt and Davis plays in his place. If we had Cooley right now we might be looking at different plays being called with two tight ends in the lineup. Nope, I can't agree to a trade of Cooley for a 3rd round pick![/quote]

You must admit though his play does sort of make us forget he overslept wouldn't you agree?

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=GMScud;645165]Comparing Cooley's numbers to Davis this year doesn't really make any sense. Cooley was pacing for yet another pro-bowl year before he got hurt despite a pathetic offense and no Sherm Lewis calling plays. Davis has stepped in and been great, but his time as a starter began right when our offense decided to move the ball. No reason to think Cooley's numbers wouldn't be stellar if he was playing right now.[/quote]

Great. So we have 2 pro-bowl caliber TEs. Get rid of one of them. The older one preferably. I can't think of a single team that won the Super Bowl, BECAUSE they had 2 great pass catching TEs. Hell, you can get by without even 1 really good pass catching TE.

Using pure logic and treating it purely as a business decision, Cooley should go. Nothing personal.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=44Deezel;645245]Great. So we have 2 pro-bowl caliber TEs. Get rid of one of them. The older one preferably. I can't think of a single team that won the Super Bowl, BECAUSE they had 2 great pass catching TEs. Hell, you can get by without even 1 really good pass catching TE.

Using pure logic and treating it purely as a business decision, Cooley should go. Nothing personal.[/quote]This is a horrible solution to the "not enough quality skill position players" issue. I mean, you can use the pick received to draft a wide receiver or a running back who you hope can be a better compliment to Davis than Cooley can, but this isn't exactly the Tony Gonzalez situation all over again.

If we're not planning to be competitive in the NFC East before Cooley is 33 and offering only experience in the TE position as his only skill, we've hired the wrong guy.

I think we'd be best off trading Devin Thomas or Malcolm Kelly to open up room for Marko Mitchell to play, or Santana Moss, or Laron Landry than someone who is providing a relatively inexpensive solution to a major need in the offense: someone who will get open and catch the ball.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

what are you guys thoughts on a DeAngello Williams for Cooley trade?

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;645249]what are you guys thoughts on a DeAngello Williams for Cooley trade?[/quote]

DeAngelo for Cooley and whom?

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=mredskins;645120]Doesn't Fred line up in the slot now?[/quote]
He might be; I honestly haven't noticed/paid attention. I know that we did that with Cooley some as well.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

Fred Davis is a great talent and like everyone has been saying we need to keep #86 and #47. I am glad to see him not jumping in the air anymore , but now we have to teach him to hold on to the ball.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=Mattyk;645131]I would say Cooley is peaking... peaked makes it sound as if he's on the downside to me.[/quote]
I agree. I think that we know what we have in Cooley and that's way more than enough to be satisfied, but I wouldn't say he's put up his best performance yet or anything.