re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;645011]Yet you had no problem with Mike Smith sticking up for one of his own guys

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/33271-the-d-hall-incident-3.html#post622767[/url][/quote]

LOL...Game, Set, Match...and all you had to play was one serve.

re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;644934]Are you kidding me w/ this silly thread??? AH takes so many damn plays off it's not even funny. He's lazy, he's not in shape, he showed up out of shape and it's carried on all through the season and it shows up in his play. Who cares if he slugs a guy when D. Hall is fighting? That's not leadership! It's stupid cause you just got 15 yards. If your fat ass was a leader then you'd get in D. Hall's face and tell him to stop fighting and ball! Haynesworth is the kind of guy you can't win with cause your highest paid guy needs to be a leader by example....aka Reggie White. This fat ass is a joke and I don't care if I get flamed.[/quote]

You show your repeated ignorance with every post about this. Learn how the NFL works and then how to analyze it and come back. I'm far from an expert but damn.

re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=htownskinfan;644969]I dont know whats so painful,I thought he made a lot of good points[/quote]You're from TX; incompetence and a lack of knowledge is expected.

re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;645011]Yet you had no problem with Mike Smith sticking up for one of his own guys

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/33271-the-d-hall-incident-3.html#post622767[/URL][/quote]
wow, I hate the term "hater" but here we have it

back to ES with you muffin

re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;644979]You are completely incorrect. The increased sack numbers for AC and at least half of those by Orakpo can be directly attributed to the presence of AH. We knew what we were getting with him, you get a difference-making 1-tech DT for about 67-70% of the defensive snaps each season. The FO felt he was worth it and I agree. If the salary cap goes away, he is nothing but a positive as long as he stays healthy (no seasone-ending injuries, but that could be said about any player). We just need to take into consideration that he won't be on the field 30% of the time and make sure we have a good DT rotation, which at this point I believe is the least of our worries.[/quote]I've only broken down about two halves since the bye week, so I'm hardly an expert on the last seven games, but my take is that Carter and Orakpo are doing what they are doing independant of what Haynesworth is providing. I don't really see Haynesworth collapsing the pocket to help them.

What I frequently do see is a guy who is playing his gap, and winning his one on ones very consistently. I'm just a bit surprised that so many teams are going 1 v 1 on Haynesworth, and I'm very surprised he hasn't had a bigger impact.

With that said, his effect on a game is clear every time he takes the field. Haynesworth goes 100% on nearly every play, and I just wish he could stay healthy. I just don't think his effect on a game is being reflected in Orakpo's or Carter's numbers.

As to his salary: it's almost unheard of to be able to add an impact player without giving up a draft pick. A lot of Haynesworth's salary is simply the difference between a free-market acquisition, and an extension given to a player who we traded a high draft pick to get. It was worth it, but the potential downside is staying with the player too long because you owe him money.

re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;645064]I've only broken down about two halves since the bye week, so I'm hardly an expert on the last seven games, but my take is that Carter and Orakpo are doing what they are doing independant of what Haynesworth is providing. I don't really see Haynesworth collapsing the pocket to help them.

What I frequently do see is a guy who is playing his gap, and winning his one on ones very consistently. I'm just a bit surprised that so many teams are going 1 v 1 on Haynesworth, and I'm very surprised he hasn't had a bigger impact.

With that said, his effect on a game is clear every time he takes the field. Haynesworth goes 100% on nearly every play, and I just wish he could stay healthy. I just don't think his effect on a game is being reflected in Orakpo's or Carter's numbers.

As to his salary: it's almost unheard of to be able to add an impact player without giving up a draft pick. A lot of Haynesworth's salary is simply the difference between a free-market acquisition, and an extension given to a player who we traded a high draft pick to get. It was worth it, but the potential downside is staying with the player too long because you owe him money.[/quote]
I'm not sure man

I don't see Carter coming back this year and vanden bosch only having 3 sacks without AH being an influence on that.. tripp you have pretty numbers, but pretty numbers are often very analytical and don't have as much to do with the overall picture.. I get why some stats are come out with and how you follow the fballo's but there's a lot more to it

seeing the overall picture helps with that.. which I think that you do mostly well, but I think that maybe you put too much focus on these stats that matter to those that make them up, but won't be a part of major stats for awhile

honestly there's a gap to be bridged between them because they both matter, but they can be far extremes as well

re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=tryfuhl;645068]I'm not sure man

I don't see Carter coming back this year and vanden bosch only having 3 sacks without AH being an influence on that.. tripp you have pretty numbers, but pretty numbers are often very analytical and don't have as much to do with the overall picture.. I get why some stats are come out with and how you follow the fballo's but there's a lot more to it

seeing the overall picture helps with that.. which I think that you do mostly well, but I think that maybe you put too much focus on these stats that matter to those that make them up, but won't be a part of major stats for awhile

honestly there's a gap to be bridged between them because they both matter, but they can be far extremes as well[/quote]The above post had not one thing to do with stats. I can pull out all sorts of fancy metrics that pinpoint exactly where our defense ranks and what our pass rush ranks and such, but there's nothing that would justify the above.

Like you said, I think the Titans are missing him, but he had 8 sacks last year with them. I think our scheme is primarily responsible for the downturn in production. And I think he's been great here, particularly in short yardage situations. I think there's a whole number of stats that would show his impact for our team. But ultimately, I feel that there's not enough there to suggest that Carter and Orakpo's production is due to anyone except themselves.

re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;644934]Are you kidding me w/ this silly thread??? AH takes so many damn plays off it's not even funny. He's lazy, he's not in shape, he showed up out of shape and it's carried on all through the season and it shows up in his play. Who cares if he slugs a guy when D. Hall is fighting? That's not leadership! It's stupid cause you just got 15 yards. If your fat ass was a leader then you'd get in D. Hall's face and tell him to stop fighting and ball! Haynesworth is the kind of guy you can't win with cause your highest paid guy needs to be a leader by example....aka Reggie White. [B]This fat ass is a joke and I don't care if I get flamed.[/B][/quote]

If you know you're going to get flamed then make a better argument, otherwise just keep your bad arguments to yourself.

[quote=skinsfan69;622767][B]I fully applaud Mike Smith. He saw his QB get hit late and he wanted a piece of someone. [SIZE="3"]I have no problem with that.[/SIZE][/B] Guys talk shit on the field all the time....there was some pushing and shoving and some f bombs. Big deal. It's football, not golf.[/quote]

So for you is ok for an NFL coach to go after a player (a player in the team that you "root" for) because he saw his QB getting sack (a bit late). Yet you have an issue with Haynesworth defending Hall after he was getting mugged by Jacobs and one of the Giants guard? :doh:

re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

if you knew what kind of player Haynesworth is, then we are more then getting our moneys worth. but if you were expecting 100 tackles, and double digit sacks, that's not him. im glad he is here

re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=tryfuhl;645048]You're from TX; incompetence and a lack of knowledge is expected.[/quote]

nevermind,not going to resort to a personal attack

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

AH plays with more passion than anyone else on the team. Few, if any, tackles in the NFL play more than Haynesworth. He gets pressure on the qb consistently while also stuffing the running game. Other teams look for when he is not in the game and then attempt to run between the tackles. Otherwise they run on the edges.
As for Jacobs, I agree with the earlier post that Jacobs instigated and should have been ejected. AH was defending his teammate. Should he have just watched Hall get pummeled?

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

Maybe the best thing that could happen for Albert would be a defensive coordinator with a scheme designed to take advantage of what he does best. Blaches' scheme does not provide that and one can clearly see his frustration as a result of it. I'm for keeping the big guy happy in hopes of getting his best effort all the time. His not being happy with the scheme could explain his attitude and his in and out of the lineup. He's not our first DL player that has acused the DC of holding them back. Scheme to fit the player as oposed to insisting the player fit the scheme.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

Haynesworth playing 70% of the time is a bargain when you consider all of the other $100 million dollars players out there (all quarterbacks) who essentially take a play off every time they hand the ball off to a running back and that happens at least 40% of their playing time.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;645011]Yet you had no problem with Mike Smith sticking up for one of his own guys

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/33271-the-d-hall-incident-3.html#post622767[/URL][/quote]

Two totally different situations. Did Mike Smith punch anyone? I didn't see him him flat out punch someone. He got in D. Hall's face and talked some shit and and there was some pushing and shoving. Please, don't even try to compare the two. If Mike Smith cold cocked someone his ass would've got a long suspension.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;644979]You are completely incorrect. [B]The increased sack numbers for AC and at least half of those by Orakpo can be directly attributed to the presence of AH. [/B]We knew what we were getting with him, you get a difference-making 1-tech DT for about 67-70% of the defensive snaps each season. The FO felt he was worth it and I agree. If the salary cap goes away, he is nothing but a positive as long as he stays healthy (no seasone-ending injuries, but that could be said about any player). We just need to take into consideration that he won't be on the field 30% of the time and make sure we have a good DT rotation, which at this point I believe is the least of our worries.[/quote]

The sack total is up and he may help out a little there. But is the defense any better? Are we better against the run? No. You can argue that we're worse. I'm sure the stat guys can compare this year to last years numbers.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;645123]Two totally different situations. Did Mike Smith punch anyone? I didn't see him him flat out punch someone. He got in D. Hall's face and talked some shit and and there was some pushing and shoving. Please, don't even try to compare the two. If Mike Smith cold cocked someone his ass would've got a long suspension.[/quote]

I'm just bringing up the basic point that you didn't have a problem with one situation where a guy was sticking up for another (Mike Smith got hit with a big fine for that by the way, while Hall wasn't fined, something you never acknowledged).

But you have a problem with AH sticking up for his own guys. Just doesn't seem to add up, but obviously you have an axe to grind with guys like AH and Hall so it's not unexpected I guess.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

Haynesworth plays 70+% of his defense's snaps, takes a breather on the sideline and he's a wimp...Riggins played 70+% of his offense's snaps (I'm guessing), sucks down oxygen every time he sat on the sidelines and he's a warrior

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;645072]If you know you're going to get flamed then make a better argument, otherwise just keep your bad arguments to yourself.



So for you is ok for an NFL coach to go after a player (a player in the team that you "root" for) because he saw his QB getting sack (a bit late). Yet you have an issue with Haynesworth defending Hall after he was getting mugged by Jacobs and one of the Giants guard? :doh:[/quote]

Get outta with that child's play nonsense. As I said, two different situations. The QB was hit late out of bounds and then Hall went back and started talking shit and he was looking for a fight on the Atlanta bench. Smith got in his face and took up for his QB. Did Mike Smith throw a punch? No. Meanwhile Hall is out there again causing trouble talking shit. Just go back to the damn huddle. I realize that jacobs hit him first but Hall actually grabbed his face mask first. You're getting your ass beat. Just play ball and stop all the chatter. AH came to his defense AGAIN. Did Darrell Green ever get in fights like this????

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

Hall didn't grab Jacobs' facemask. Jacobs grabbed Hall's and then threw a punch

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

why the hatred for Hall? watch the replay. Manning swings the ball to Jacobs, and the ref is in the process of blowing the play dead. Jacobs drops the ball, and Hall precedes to make a play- on the ball. Jacobs then swings, not once, but twice at Hall. what would you expect someone on your team to do? if he simply runs back to the huddle, Monday morning you're starting a thread on how Hall has no heart. im glad he didnt take that punk Jacobs shit. talk about someone that needs an attitude adjustment. remember a couple of seasons ago when Jacobs claimed Sean Taylor was cheap shotting him? he is nothing but a 6'5'' p****y

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

I really didn't see anything of the interchange, except at the end when AH came out swinging, he looked like he was gonna take a head off. At the time, I thought it was uncalled for, but reading this debate, if BJ did take the first swing, he shoulda been ejected, and hopefully the fines coming up will differentiate between the instigator and the response

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=flashalexb;645105]Haynesworth playing 70% of the time is a bargain when you consider all of the other $100 million dollars players out there (all quarterbacks) who essentially take a play off every time they hand the ball off to a running back and that happens at least 40% of their playing time.[/quote]

How 'bout Nate Clements signed by the 49ers a couple of years ago? That's still considered a monster contract and he's been less than stellar and oft injured.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[YT]pvbVhWRbujc[/YT]

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=Longtimefan;645102]Maybe the best thing that could happen for Albert would be a defensive coordinator with a scheme designed to take advantage of what he does best. Blaches' scheme does not provide that and one can clearly see his frustration as a result of it. I'm for keeping the big guy happy in hopes of getting his best effort all the time. His not being happy with the scheme could explain his attitude and his in and out of the lineup. He's not our first DL player that has acused the DC of holding them back. Scheme to fit the player as oposed to insisting the player fit the scheme.[/quote]

I agree wholeheartedly that Blache needs to go and we need a DC who will more effectively use Big Al. That said, i'm not at all dissatisfied with what we've seen from Haynesworth this year. Haynesworth plays more snaps than almost any other defensive player. When he's on the field, he gives 100% every play. He doesnt stay on the field and "take plays off" like alot of guys. When he's tired, he comes out for a play or two so a guy with fresh legs can give 100%. Haynesworth has been worth every penny and i do not understand the hate he gets here.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

call me incompetent or stupid but the majority of the sentiment from titans fans on AH was that he is great for 8 games, non-factors for a few and then he'll miss the rest of the games. That he will get tired quickly and not be in there all the time when you really need him sometimes.

I love what AH brings to the table when he is in there, i rock one of his jerseys, but the titan fans opinion of him is holding up. at seasons end he will have missed 3-4 games. in the giants first drive he wasnt in there for the goalline stand. he gets winded and takes a knee a good bit.

he's a great player, i like the signing, like posters have said he really is on a 4-5 year contract for half of the reported 100 mil.

is someone really incompetent, stupid or whatever for opining that AH doesnt bring his full potential to the field b/c of his lack of conditioning? sometimes you all are just to quick to call people stupid or to insult people.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;645147][YT]pvbVhWRbujc[/YT][/quote]

thanks, so how was there not a facemask on Jacobs? I really missed that part altogether.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;645129]Haynesworth plays 70+% of his defense's snaps, takes a breather on the sideline and he's a wimp...Riggins played 70+% of his offense's snaps (I'm guessing), sucks down oxygen every time he sat on the sidelines and he's a warrior[/quote]

where are you all finding this stat that AH plays 70+% of the defensive snaps? (im not being rhetorical or contrite, i would honestly like to know).

i just dont see how that is possible since he has already missed 2-3 entire games this year.

and for the record, i love what AH brings and all that good jazz but i feel criticsm of his conditioning is justified if a fan wants to hold that opinion which i do to a small degree.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

I'm guessing he means 70% of the snaps in games that he's played.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=over the mountain;645154]call me incompetent or stupid but the majority of the sentiment from titans fans on AH was that he is great for 8 games, non-factors for a few and then he'll miss the rest of the games. That he will get tired quickly and not be in there all the time when you really need him sometimes.

I love what AH brings to the table when he is in there, i rock one of his jerseys, but the titan fans opinion of him is holding up. at seasons end he will have missed 3-4 games. in the giants first drive he wasnt in there for the goalline stand. he gets winded and takes a knee a good bit.

[/quote]

all that shows is that titans fans were just as ignorant as some redskins fans. the facts show haynesworth plays more than most other defensive players. the facts show he makes other defensive players around him better (see titans defensive ends sacks this year). NFL players, who know how he plays first-hand, have consistently voted him [U]the best defensive player in the league[/U].

haynesworth gets more attention because his physical size and the size of his contract. when other players come out of the game, it goes unnoticed. But when Haynesworth goes out, everyone raises their arms in the air and say he's out of shape. its a freaking double standard. those who adhere to it are either whiners, ignorant, or just plain prejudiced.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=saden1;644902]While all the a-holes on the team were smiling and shaking hands Mr. Haynesworth looked like a man who lost his only child last night. Thank you Mr. Haynesworth for playing with heart, and more importantly, taking the loss personally.


Edit :Mod, please fix the spelling of appreciation in the thread title. Thanks.[/quote]
AH always looks like that and he probably looked like that in his family christmas picture.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=over the mountain;645158]where are you all finding this stat that AH plays 70+% of the defensive snaps? (im not being rhetorical or contrite, i would honestly like to know).

i just dont see how that is possible since he has already missed 2-3 entire games this year.

and for the record, i love what AH brings and all that good jazz but i feel criticsm of his conditioning is justified if a fan wants to hold that opinion which i do to a small degree.[/quote]

You can't compare the endurance of a 350 lb defenisve tackle to a 180 lb cornerback. The cornerback is going to have much more endurance. But if he goes full speed at two 350lb offensive linemen, he's going to get destroyed. i think people's expectations for a Haynesworth are completely unrealistic.

If you're going to criticize his conditioning , please give us something to compare him to. Please show me a 350 lb defensive takle who is better "conditioned" than Haynesworth. Name one. Just one. And if you can find one, please share their stats with us. Please.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;645160]
1) all that shows is that titans fans were just as ignorant as some redskins fans.

2) the facts show haynesworth plays more than most other defensive players.

3) the facts show he makes other defensive players around him better (see titans defensive ends sacks this year).

4) NFL players, who know how he plays first-hand, have consistently voted him [U]the best defensive player in the league[/U].

5) those who adhere to it are either whiners, ignorant, or just plain prejudiced.[/quote]

1) lol . .. . so saying someone who questions AH conditioning is ignorant? seriously?

2) please show me the stat that AH has played 70% of the defensive snaps. i think your making an educated guess.

3) agreed. the same people, experts etc who question his conditioning also say he makes everyone around him better

4) they have also said he takes plays off, will lay on the ground faking injury just to catch his breath, etc. ... you're referring to these same players right?

5) anyone with a different viewpoint from you is ignorant, prejudiced ect . . . :goodjob:


just like anyone who posted this offseason that CP has lost a step, not worth the money or headache was ignorant, prejudiced stupid etc. . . hows that 10 players to cut list looking now?

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;645163]You can't compare the endurance of a 350 lb defenisve tackle to a 180 lb cornerback. The cornerback is going to have much more endurance. But if he goes full speed at two 350lb offensive linemen, he's going to get destroyed. i think people's expectations for a Haynesworth are completely unrealistic.

If you're going to criticize his conditioning , please give us something to compare him to. Please show me a 350 lb defensive takle who is better "conditioned" than Haynesworth. Name one. Just one. And if you can find one, please share their stats with us. Please.[/quote]

BHA you just dont get it. Im saying AH is a great player but i dont think a fan mentioning or questioning his conditioning makes them stupid.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;645159]I'm guessing he means 70% of the snaps in games that he's played.[/quote]

Exactly. From the Washington Times

NYG 46 of 64 = 72%
Stl 45 of 53 = 85%
Det 36 of 79 = 46%
TB 45 of 57 = 80%
Car 50 of 63 = 80%
KC 56 of 74 = 76%
Phila 42 of 58 = 72%

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

Jacobs is a punk. I've got no problem whatsoever with what AH did. I kinda wish he'd of stomped his ass, but I'm sure the league would have really stuck it to him. Anyone who doesn't think you should have your team mates back comes from a different kind of football than I do.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

You need your highest paid guys to be leaders. And when you have your highest paid guys showing up out of shape, taking plays off, constantly getting hurt, jumping off sides, missing games then I've got a problem with that. If he's so hurt then why was his ass down at the Wizards game walking around w/ out a cast? Then you miss the next few games? Tenn knew the deal and that's why they felt he wasn't worth the $. What about the guy on the Rams who said he takes plays off? I'm not saying AH doesn't have heart but BE A PROFESSIONAL. That means be in shape and be a leader and play your ass off. Sorry but I just don't see it. You know who is worth the $ he's being paid? Demarcus Ware. He's what I call a pro. You know who else? The two Williams guys on Minn.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

I too like what I've seen from AH. Him not playing 100% of the plays doesn't bother me in the least. Who does? We've got capable, good backups too.

I do want AH to become the leader of the defense though. He's being paid to be that. If it's broke, he needs to start the solution. He needs to stand up and say he's here for the long haul, and he's going to do his best to get it fixed. I don't want to hear any second thoughts about coming to DC. He didn't say anything that bothers me, i'm just reading b/n the lines a little. Whatever happens, he needs to be Mr. Redskin, positive, and the face of this defense.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;645129]Haynesworth plays 70+% of his defense's snaps, takes a breather on the sideline and he's a wimp...Riggins played 70+% of his offense's snaps (I'm guessing), sucks down oxygen every time he sat on the sidelines and he's a warrior[/quote]

Riggins goes to the hospital all week long in traction because of his back, then shows up on Sun. and balls. Meanwhile Mr. Haynesworth hurts his ankle but still finds time to go see basketball, doesn't wear a cast and misses 3 weeks and cries about not having leadership. I can't even believe that you're comparing the two. Wow.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=over the mountain;645168]BHA you just dont get it. Im saying AH is a great player but i dont think a fan mentioning or questioning his conditioning makes them stupid.[/quote]

not stupid. ignorant. there's a difference.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=over the mountain;645164]1) lol . .. . so saying someone who questions AH conditioning is ignorant? seriously?

2) please show me the stat that AH has played 70% of the defensive snaps. i think your making an educated guess.

3) agreed. the same people, experts etc who question his conditioning also say he makes everyone around him better

4) they have also said he takes plays off, will lay on the ground faking injury just to catch his breath, etc. ... you're referring to these same players right?

5) anyone with a different viewpoint from you is ignorant, prejudiced ect . . . :goodjob:


just like anyone who posted this offseason that CP has lost a step, not worth the money or headache was ignorant, prejudiced stupid etc. . . hows that 10 players to cut list looking now?[/quote]

1) If they do so in spite of the mountain of evidence pointing to the contrary, then yes.

2) See Smoots post.

3) who (other than some ignorant fans) are questioning his conditioning?

4) I don't know of players who've accused them of those things (guess i'm ignorant there), but i'd be curious to know who said those things and if they had an agenda of some sort.

5) see my response to post #1. questioning hanesworth's conditioning because despite evidence to the contrary is like questioning stephen hawkings intelligence because he hasn't figured out how to walk.